Recon: modern warfare

[Rockwolf66]

First off We are not allowed to discuss the conversion of someone elses intellectual property to palladium rules.

Secondly the Call of Duty series is as anacronistic and unrealistic as it gets. You would be better off trying to simulate a real conflict. At the heart of it Recon is a Milsim Wargame.


Personally I would love a series of Gulf War 1 and War on Terror sourcebooks but unless I write them myself and send the drafts through someone like Kevin Dockerty or Dominique for factchecking it's not going to happen and it's not going to be realistic.

[scarius]

i have run a couple of games in an iraq/afghanistan setting, the little rules changes i made werent big and only served to "update" weapons/armour/ect ect

i personaly didnt find it hard to do, maybe its my experence with the two countrys in question that made the changing of the setting a little eaiser, but really all that you need to do is just have a new "back drop" instead of 'Nam

[Rockwolf66]

His tour was his tour. I've had friends due multiple tours in both warzones and their experiances really are like the three blind men and the Elephant. Everyones tours are different. I've had friends who were in on the invasions of Iraq and Afganistan. Those tours were much different than the latter tours where we were building the nations. Iraq is a different culture than Afganistan with different peoples and languages.

The COD series are complete fantasy compared to the reality of warfare. While I do know of men who can run and gun with the best of them. They never do such BS as two men took down an Airfield. Nope more like a half dozen men in heavily armed Jeeps roar down the flightline shooting the aircraft to junk.

Really do some research and you will find out that various Special Operations missions make what happens in COD look like Amature hour.

[slade the sniper]

His tour was his tour. I've had friends due multiple tours in both warzones and their experiances really are like the three blind men and the Elephant. Everyones tours are different. I've had friends who were in on the invasions of Iraq and Afganistan. Those tours were much different than the latter tours where we were building the nations. Iraq is a different culture than Afganistan with different peoples and languages.

You got that right. Each of mine has been different. Talking to people who were 10 klicks away in a different part of Baghdad had completely different experiences just based on their AO during the same time frame.

Wars are just weird like that.

As for having PB anything near a realistic war simulation... you would almost have to use either Recon or remove SDC from living critters in the other games. As a "switch" between realistic and cinematic, turning on and off SDC and HP progression makes the other PB games very very lethal.

As a way to have a truly squad/fireteam based RPG, recon is quite good simply for the flavor...but the core books are really just entirely too dated. The rules are sufficient, but everything else is just...bad.

For a good kitbash, I would say baseline palladium rules with no SDC, Recon's rules regarding firefights, Pagan Publishing's Delta Green for some good write ups of US and international SpecOps and Intel types (tho getting dated...) or use GURPS SpecOps. Read up on special operations and contractors and make a game.

-STS

[Desert Rat]

As for having PB anything near a realistic war simulation... you would almost have to use either Recon or remove SDC from living critters in the other games. As a "switch" between realistic and cinematic, turning on and off SDC and HP progression makes the other PB games very very lethal.

-STS

What I always do is take all blunt force trauma and apply that to SDC, i.e. HtH Combat, auto accidents, falls from heights, etc... Anything which causes internal bleeding, i.e. guns, knives, etc..., goes directly to HP's. Kind of changes the way people play the game and some of the decisions they will make.

[Dominique]

After I get back from this deployment, I may (and I repeat may), sit down and see if I can crank out some homebrew rules for a modern setting, or at least some sort of template for modern day recon, pathfinder, SOF, intel/paramilitary, and contractors. The basic rules actually do a pretty good job, and as stated earlier, other than some new skills, and an update on weapons, equipment, and vehicles, not much more would actually be needed.

[slade the sniper]

Well, I for one would really like to see anything you make...especially for contractors. For being around a lot of them lately, it really is a different world to me...but then pretty much every branch is a "different" in that way. Changing from enlisted to officer, from infantry to MI and from tactical to strategic have all been big changes...

-STS

[Dominique]

Contractors can use modified versions of one of the Mercenary classes. I'd also suggest adding skills for things like light wheeled vehicles (with a specialization in a particular vehicle type, like HMMWV, RSOV, FAV, etc.), MRAP, etc. And IIRC, I posted an updated skills list in one of these threads.

Weapons wise, I'd tack on newer weapons like the M-4, M-24, M-240, M-249, M-320, M-9, Glock-22, HK-UMP, HK G-36, AK-74, etc. Their stats can easily be looked up on line, and just use similar weapons to determine the amount of damage they'd inflict.

I'd also want to include newer gear like laser aiming modules, tactical lights, less lethal munitions, etc.

And while I'm at it, I need to post some little unit overviews on current US SOF and recon units, as their have been some changes amongst the US and its allies.

[Dominique]

OK, here's a repost of some of my homebrew skills, for a modern game.

High Altitude, High Opening (HAHO) - Basically The jumper opens his chute at an extreme altitude, and glides to his target.

Low Altitude, Low Opening (LALO) - Used for combat operations. The Jumper jumps at the minimum altitude needed to have time for his chute to deploy. This is the type of jump the Rangers executed in both Grenada and Panama. The advantage is you're only in the air about 30 seconds or so. The disadvantage is if you have a problem with your chute, you don't have time to deploy a reserve, as you'll have already impacted with the ground.

Low Altitude, High Speed - (LAHS) - It’s similar to a LALO drop, but the aircraft picks rapidly climbs, then dives to pick up speed. The Rhodesian SAS, and RLI used this to insert SAS teams or RLI “Fire Force” units quickly.

Tandem Jumping - Basically a second person, or animals, such as a dog, are strapped to the primary jumper, and piggy-back off of their parachute.

Water Jumps - Basically a person is trained in techniques to properly conduct a jump into a large body of water.

HALO SCUBA - It was originally developed for use in maritime counter terror (MCT) operations to allow SEALS and other CT forces, to insert near maritime targets, when no landing zone was available. If you’ve ever seen the movie “Navy SEALS” you, they conduct a HALO SCUBA op to infiltrate into Lebanon.

Rough Terrain Jumps - All I did was change the name to better reflect what the skill actually covered.

McGuire Rig - an extraction technique for use in a Vietnam area game.

Rappelling

Fast Roping/FRIES & Special Purpose Infiltration/Exfiltration System (SPIES) - It’s the system that replace both the STABO and McGuire Rig.

Helo Casting - Basically you’re trained to properly jump out of a helicopter in water without breaking any body parts.

Sling Loading - You’re trained on how to properly hook equipment to a helo for transport.

Small Boat Handling - You know how to operate a CRRC, Rigid Raider, or similar craft.

Mountaineering -You’re trained in climbing and other mountain operations techniques.

Instructor - Basically this skill allows you to teach skills to others.

Laser Target Designators (LTD) - You’re skilled in use of various types of laser target designators for directing artillery, naval gunfire, and laser guided bombs.

Night Vision Goggles (NVG)- You’re trained in the proper use of various types of night vision goggles.

Targeting Lasers - You are trained in the proper you use of various types of small arms targeting lasers.

Air Traffic Controller - You can direct the movements of various types of aircraft both on the ground and in the air (the primary skill of both Pathfinders and Combat Controllers)

Mines -You’re trained in the use of various types of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines.

81mm Mortars
120mm Mortars

MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense System) -You’re trained in the use of man portable surface to air missile systems.

Fast Draw - You’re trained to rapidly draw a side arm, such as a pistol, from its holster.

Close Quarters Battle - You’re trained in conducting close quarters combat with small arms.

Tracking - You can follow a trail left by humans, animals, or vehicles. I’ve got a rough draft of a modifier chart floating around here somewhere, and I’ll post it later.

I've also got draft for things like survival, street wise, area knowledge, and some espionage type skills.

What do you think?

[slade the sniper]

As usual, I like these skills...the only issue is whether it becomes overspecialized like for sling-loading...this could be included in a skill like Air Assault which could cover rappelling, fast roping and sling loading as well as basic HLZ procedures....and maybe even helocasting if you are lucky.

I suppose that it really comes down to personal preference and GM desires....

-STS

[Rockwolf66]

Contractors can use modified versions of one of the Mercenary classes. I'd also suggest adding skills for things like light wheeled vehicles (with a specialization in a particular vehicle type, like HMMWV, RSOV, FAV, etc.), MRAP, etc. And IIRC, I posted an updated skills list in one of these threads.

Weapons wise, I'd tack on newer weapons like the M-4, M-24, M-240, M-249, M-320, M-9, Glock-22, HK-UMP, HK G-36, AK-74, etc. Their stats can easily be looked up on line, and just use similar weapons to determine the amount of damage they'd inflict.

I'd also want to include newer gear like laser aiming modules, tactical lights, less lethal munitions, etc.

And while I'm at it, I need to post some little unit overviews on current US SOF and recon units, as their have been some changes amongst the US and its allies.

I've already got the M249 statted up already including the Real Life price. I hope to have other varients of the m249 statted up soon. I have been working on a vietnam era Navy SEAL firearm list but that can wait. Just let me know what you want to see and I'll stat up the list.

[Dominique]

As usual, I like these skills...the only issue is whether it becomes overspecialized like for sling-loading...this could be included in a skill like Air Assault which could cover rappelling, fast roping and sling loading as well as basic HLZ procedures....and maybe even helocasting if you are lucky.

I suppose that it really comes down to personal preference and GM desires....

-STS

I may look at consolidating the skill list, as this is just a rough draft I whipped up a few years back. I just depends on how motivated I feel to work on it.

[Dominique]

Contractors can use modified versions of one of the Mercenary classes. I'd also suggest adding skills for things like light wheeled vehicles (with a specialization in a particular vehicle type, like HMMWV, RSOV, FAV, etc.), MRAP, etc. And IIRC, I posted an updated skills list in one of these threads.

Weapons wise, I'd tack on newer weapons like the M-4, M-24, M-240, M-249, M-320, M-9, Glock-22, HK-UMP, HK G-36, AK-74, etc. Their stats can easily be looked up on line, and just use similar weapons to determine the amount of damage they'd inflict.

I'd also want to include newer gear like laser aiming modules, tactical lights, less lethal munitions, etc.

And while I'm at it, I need to post some little unit overviews on current US SOF and recon units, as their have been some changes amongst the US and its allies.

I've already got the M249 statted up already including the Real Life price. I hope to have other varients of the m249 statted up soon. I have been working on a vietnam era Navy SEAL firearm list but that can wait. Just let me know what you want to see and I'll stat up the list.

Feel free to post whatever you've got. I worked up some weapon stats for D20 Modern, as a favor to a buddy of mine, for a SOF supplement he released, and I may use them as the basis for anything I put together. Just out of curiosity, are there any particular weapons you guys are looking for. I'm thinking a list of about 10-15 of the more popular weapons would work.

[Rockwolf66]

Unfortunatly my computer is in the shop at the moment but I can write out the stats and then work on typing them up for everyone.

[Dominique]

Unfortunatly my computer is in the shop at the moment but I can write out the stats and then work on typing them up for everyone.

No rush, get to it when you can. I've been slacking on posting the past few months anyway.

[Rockwolf66]

Heck, I've been useing the time for research. There are litterally dozens of countries involved with Iraq and Afganistan and many of those have sent combat troops for security reasons. I'm thinking that I'm going to have to make a list of the countries that sent troops and how many troops then look up the issue weapons of that country. It seems that making a Modern Recon setting is going to take quite a bit of work and the end result is going to be huge.

Thankfully for me I can use the Civilian semiautomatic version price for weapons as usually the Post '86 Dealers samples are about the same price as a semi-auto firearm.

Sort of like how a pre-'86 transferable Minigun is $300,000+ now and a post '86 dealers sample is only $30,000. Or how a transferable HK-21E is $25,000 and a semi auto version is the same $7,500 as a post '86 dealers sample.

[Lando The Archmagi]

Has anyone gone further with this, if so could I get the info?

[Dominique]

Has anyone gone further with this, if so could I get the info?

What info are you looking for?

[Lando The Archmagi]

Has anyone gone further with this, if so could I get the info?

What info are you looking for?

I'm looking for files/website/information on any modern classes/skills/weapons etc to run my own campaign set in the current times pretty much. So if you got stuff you could email to me that'd be great or if you got a site I can pull it off of, send me the link. I just recently got a full copy of Recon with my grab bag for my birthday last month and have been pondering doing some sort of game related to current/past events in the Middle East or anti terrorism or something.

[Dominique]

Sorry for the long delay, I was jumping from FOB to FOB, and then flew back to the US. I'm waiting to see if I'll be assigned to a WTU, as I blew out my knee, on a PT run (I'm still pissed). Once I get to my final destination, I'll have the time to sit down and start working my way threw my old notes.

[Rockwolf66]

Unfortunatly my computer is in the shop at the moment but I can write out the stats and then work on typing them up for everyone.

No rush, get to it when you can. I've been slacking on posting the past few months anyway.

I'm currently working on states for the current weapons of the US Army, Iraq, Iran and Afganistan. Once I am done with that I'll do Pakistan and the Vietnam conflict. It's going to take a bit to finish it up unless i get some help with it.

[calto40k]

Sorry for the long delay, I was jumping from FOB to FOB, and then flew back to the US. I'm waiting to see if I'll be assigned to a WTU, as I blew out my knee, on a PT run (I'm still pissed). Once I get to my final destination, I'll have the time to sit down and start working my way threw my old notes.

that pt run blowing out your knee totally sucks at least it wasnt a fall from a cargo net on a grenade o course during the first blizzard nc saw in 100 years or so<wink wink> glad to hear we have some decent people in the service though

[Dominique]

What really sucked was it was something simple, we were running sprints, and on my last shuttle run, I went to turn, and felt a "pop", and my leg started burning. I ended up tearing a muscle, spraining a tendon, and had fluid on my knee. I was on crutches for almost two months, and had 8 weeks of physical therapy, and I'm still wearing a brace (but I can start running again, as I gained 9 pounds). I'm trying to get ready for a PT test for work, as I want to get back to training with out tactical team (we train four hours a week), and can't do PT with them.

[calto40k]

that definitely sucks.. eh atleast you didnt destroy your pcl...my wife had to get both of hers replaced due to a birth defect that caused her knees to be pop out every time they bent the knee cap would slide over to the side then at 24 the pcl ligament or tendon<forgot which one it is> tore i spent a few months carrying her around on my back and wheeling here around everywhere...but seriously get better soon