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Reading through Merc Town today I came across the entry for the Titan Robotics TR-1000 and was immediately struck by the inconsistency of it. ARCHIE has gone to great lengths to conceal himself as the manufacturer of the TR line and making a giant robot with a giant Shemarrian rail gun just seems against his character. It's thr same as making a big road map to his hideout. Seems like another setup for the CS to again reign victorius. Anyone else think this is a little inconsistent?

Yes, it does seem inconsistent.

In order for him to make such a move, I'd expect for it to be seen as a necessary risk toward some kind of goal, and simply making more money doesn't seem like the kind of goal that he'd risk exposing himself over, unless he needed a lot of credits for some kind of scheme.

I chalked it up as a clue for player characters to follow. Not so much for the CS or other entities.

The note right underneath the weapons description talks about how the gun raises CS suspicion and is likely to lead to a raid on the Titan Robotics compound and further investigation into the Shemarrians and will likely lead to discovering ARCHIE and the Republicans. Even says, and I quote, "Such a turn of events seems only a matter of time...".

someone does not like archie3 it seems.

Dr Megaverse wrote:The note right underneath the weapons description talks about how the gun raises CS suspicion and is likely to lead to a raid on the Titan Robotics compound and further investigation into the Shemarrians and will likely lead to discovering ARCHIE and the Republicans. Even says, and I quote, "Such a turn of events seems only a matter of time...".

Or I suppose I could read the book and have a clue as to what I talk about...

It is extremely out of character for him, he has always been extremely careful not to draw attention to his tech, even going so far as purposely making Titan Robotics merchandise less advanced than he is capable of. So why advertise a link between two of his otherwise inaffiliated extensions into the world of man? A plot device inserted by Kevin, a couple of lines snuck in past editing from a writer that doesn't like Archie, who knows?

Does sound out of character, to say the least. A paranoid sentient super-computer that knows it's rooted to a single location (although by now ARCHIE-3 might have created itself a back-up facility it could escape to, if not several 'safe houses' as it were) and has been so careful to set things up like it has doesn't just start tossing out red flags like that. He's also got two partners, Hagan and his 'Goodson' to back-stop him in case he'd actually take a risk he shouldn't be taking since he does listen to them.

Dr Megaverse wrote:The note right underneath the weapons description talks about how the gun raises CS suspicion and is likely to lead to a raid on the Titan Robotics compound and further investigation into the Shemarrians and will likely lead to discovering ARCHIE and the Republicans. Even says, and I quote, "Such a turn of events seems only a matter of time...".

I am just getting back into rifts after a long time away. Can someone please tell me the first books the Republicans where mentioned and how they know about ARCHIE?

Perhaps it is a set up for a new alliance between the CS and Archie. He always has had pro-human leanings and is a relic of the pre-rifts Golden Age that the CS covets so much. It could be Archie's way of luring in representatives from the CS, allowing them to make the first move. Because if he made the first move in brokering such a relation ship, the CS would react badly to his sudden emergence form virtually nowhere. However, if a CS investigation slowly uncovers the truth about Archie a little bit at a time, with the pieces coming together in the right order, it could work out well between the two.

This seems like a normal thing to me. Any company that sees a "cool" gun or car or cheerleader....um I mean lifelike robot, will make knock offs. In a world where there are no laws to protect copyrights or even connected law enforcement agencies. A company like titan arms would try to copy styles to make more money. This is not a new thing it is done in alot of books, Pecos empire makes samas.

FuduVudu wrote:I am just getting back into rifts after a long time away. Can someone please tell me the first books the Republicans where mentioned and how they know about ARCHIE?

Sourcebook 1 Revised and Expanded.

The Republicans are descendents of NEMA, the people who built ARCHIE-3. I like'em. Lotta good possibilities with them.

I have a feeling it may be exactly the opposite. I think ARCHIE's success has made him cocky. That's it. It happens to a lot of intelligent, successful people.

Balabanto wrote:I have a feeling it may be exactly the opposite. I think ARCHIE's success has made him cocky. That's it. It happens to a lot of intelligent, successful people.

except that ARCHIE is in fact paranoid, has low self-esteem, and is cautious to the point of absurdity. he built an entire setup specifically in case someone tracked him down at his secret base that only one person even knows about so that he could pretend to get blown up without actually getting blown up.

Shark_Force wrote:

Balabanto wrote:I have a feeling it may be exactly the opposite. I think ARCHIE's success has made him cocky. That's it. It happens to a lot of intelligent, successful people.

except that ARCHIE is in fact paranoid, has low self-esteem, and is cautious to the point of absurdity. he built an entire setup specifically in case someone tracked him down at his secret base that only one person even knows about so that he could pretend to get blown up without actually getting blown up.

Quite so. ARCHIE-3's been hiding out for centuries and getting cocky just doesn't seem to be his thing. At best his cockiness is kept in his head (so to speak). He doesn't have to show off to everyone else how superior he is (and draw attention to himself in the process) it's enough to know it inside. You don't go to all that trouble to cover your tracks only to start waving red flags around. If anything he'd try and frame someone else making some tech look like someone else's stuff (like Splugorth tech, he'd love to stir up tensions against them).

Joseph Kerr wrote:

FuduVudu wrote:I am just getting back into rifts after a long time away. Can someone please tell me the first books the Republicans where mentioned and how they know about ARCHIE?

Sourcebook 1 Revised and Expanded.

The Republicans are descendents of NEMA, the people who built ARCHIE-3. I like'em. Lotta good possibilities with them.

the Republicans were first mentioned in the Rifts Main Book under the world description for Washington D.C.
But they were not a fully realized idea until Revised Sourcebook 1.

Nightmask wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

Balabanto wrote:I have a feeling it may be exactly the opposite. I think ARCHIE's success has made him cocky. That's it. It happens to a lot of intelligent, successful people.

except that ARCHIE is in fact paranoid, has low self-esteem, and is cautious to the point of absurdity. he built an entire setup specifically in case someone tracked him down at his secret base that only one person even knows about so that he could pretend to get blown up without actually getting blown up.

Quite so. ARCHIE-3's been hiding out for centuries and getting cocky just doesn't seem to be his thing. At best his cockiness is kept in his head (so to speak). He doesn't have to show off to everyone else how superior he is (and draw attention to himself in the process) it's enough to know it inside. You don't go to all that trouble to cover your tracks only to start waving red flags around. If anything he'd try and frame someone else making some tech look like someone else's stuff (like Splugorth tech, he'd love to stir up tensions against them).

Precisely! ARCHIE hasn't lasted as long as he has by being flashy. Look at the effort he takes to make the Shemarrians seem real, even creating a cultural back story for them! That's aside from the fact that Hagan, who has had run ins with the CS, would reach the same conclusion the book says the CS has and tell ARCHIE. No sir, to me it looks like someone at PB decided to add ARCHIE to the same list Tolkeen must have been on from thr start...and I don't like it one bit.

Dr Megaverse wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Quite so. ARCHIE-3's been hiding out for centuries and getting cocky just doesn't seem to be his thing. At best his cockiness is kept in his head (so to speak). He doesn't have to show off to everyone else how superior he is (and draw attention to himself in the process) it's enough to know it inside. You don't go to all that trouble to cover your tracks only to start waving red flags around. If anything he'd try and frame someone else making some tech look like someone else's stuff (like Splugorth tech, he'd love to stir up tensions against them).

Precisely! ARCHIE hasn't lasted as long as he has by being flashy. Look at the effort he takes to make the Shemarrians seem real, even creating a cultural back story for them! That's aside from the fact that Hagan, who has had run ins with the CS, would reach the same conclusion the book says the CS has and tell ARCHIE. No sir, to me it looks like someone at PB decided to add ARCHIE to the same list Tolkeen must have been on from thr start...and I don't like it one bit.

Nothing depresses and annoys me more than when the Evil Empire gets to continue to expand and even those who ought to be able to stop it fall one after another just because they're the designated losers. Downer endings don't appeal to me at all and can't be more downer than the CS being shown taking over piece by piece all of NA. Definitely not a marketing point that would appeal to me in the slightest.

The CS is what happens when a Union takes control over those who are suppose to keep them in check.
Chicago union with unlimited power.

Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

That may just be me thinking twisted, but I'd hope that the authors think closer to this way than.... Oops ARCHIE made a mistake and we're setting up the story line so he'll get caught by the CS.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

That may just be me thinking twisted, but I'd hope that the authors think closer to this way than.... Oops ARCHIE made a mistake and we're setting up the story line so he'll get caught by the CS.

Plausible I suppose. However the note under the weapon states the CS will most likely raid the compound and shut it down because it harbors an alien intelligence which Ishpeming agreed to not have in it's borders as per their CS treaty. "Raid the compound" doesn't sound like they intend to leave any stone unturned and all it takes is a CS Borg to jaunt on down into the underground facilities to realize something weird is going on. Not to mention that they would most likely recognize Mechanoid tech in Goodsoon as soon as they tried to apply Psionics to him at which point they'll start to ask questions that end with him being torn apart and examined. Also the satellite uplink would be discovered and I can guarantee the CS has some knowledge about how those work and utilizing triangulation woukd find ARCHIEs broadcast point. It just doesn't make sense with everything else that has been written about ARCHIE. I realize it's a moot point to argue because whatever is published is published, it just seems off to me and I think I'll be excluding the TR-1000 from my games for that reason.

I think it is a set up by Archie that will allow him to pull the plug on Titan Robotics. TR was originally used to gather information and maybe some rare materials that Archie wanted, but now he has other means of acquiring those things. Meanwhile TR has grown and expanded and is now a major liability to him. If any government is going to find out about Archie it is most likely going to be through Titan Robotics. He also knows it is only a matter of time before the CS more to take a hard look at TR
So Archie has decided to take out TR himself before that can happen. He has TR make a robot that uses Shemarian weapons tech, supposedly reverse engineered. Shemarians are noted for being rabid about other people having there tech. So I don’t think it will be to any ones surprise to learn that a large group of Shemarians manage to locate and attacked Titan Robotics secret Main Assembly and Manufacturing Plant, Killing everyone and leveling the place and leaving nothing usable behind.
Other Robot manufactures won’t care as they just lost a major competitor and the CS will probably not look to hard as a major weapons supplier to their enemies has just been eliminated. And any leads to the origins to TR will be up in smoke.

Phase Two: Several weeks after the destruction of Titan Robotics, people claiming to be highly trained researchers and survivors of the Shemarian Slaughter start showing up at other Robot and weapons manufacturing companies, offing to trade secret TR designs and information, that they managed to save, for Employment, Protection and Citizenship. Archie’s new breed of infiltration robots!

It definitely looks like a careless move, but with ARCHIE nothing is ever what it seems...

Grell wrote:It definitely looks like a careless move, but with ARCHIE nothing is ever what it seems...

It's probably a simplistic 'time to destroy ARCHIE-3 like we did Tolkeen' move, although who knows maybe the creative ideas here will filter up the chain and result in it being retconned into actually being a clever and convoluted plot on ARCHIE-3's part.

Mallak's Place wrote:I think it is a set up by Archie that will allow him to pull the plug on Titan Robotics. TR was originally used to gather information and maybe some rare materials that Archie wanted, but now he has other means of acquiring those things. Meanwhile TR has grown and expanded and is now a major liability to him. If any government is going to find out about Archie it is most likely going to be through Titan Robotics. He also knows it is only a matter of time before the CS more to take a hard look at TR
So Archie has decided to take out TR himself before that can happen. He has TR make a robot that uses Shemarian weapons tech, supposedly reverse engineered. Shemarians are noted for being rabid about other people having there tech. So I don’t think it will be to any ones surprise to learn that a large group of Shemarians manage to locate and attacked Titan Robotics secret Main Assembly and Manufacturing Plant, Killing everyone and leveling the place and leaving nothing usable behind.

Other Robot manufactures won’t care as they just lost a major competitor and the CS will probably not look to hard as a major weapons supplier to their enemies has just been eliminated. And any leads to the origins to TR will be up in smoke.

Phase Two: Several weeks after the destruction of Titan Robotics, people claiming to be highly trained researchers and survivors of the Shemarian Slaughter start showing up at other Robot and weapons manufacturing companies, offing to trade secret TR designs and information, that they managed to save, for Employment, Protection and Citizenship. Archie’s new breed of infiltration robots!

Very interesting! Have to admit my sentiment that the CS is being unduly favored by PB probably has narrowed my view on it and as someone said, with ARCHIE it's never that simple. Hmmmmmm, intrigue abounds lol.

Dr Megaverse wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

That may just be me thinking twisted, but I'd hope that the authors think closer to this way than.... Oops ARCHIE made a mistake and we're setting up the story line so he'll get caught by the CS.

Plausible I suppose. However the note under the weapon states the CS will most likely raid the compound and shut it down because it harbors an alien intelligence which Ishpeming agreed to not have in it's borders as per their CS treaty. "Raid the compound" doesn't sound like they intend to leave any stone unturned and all it takes is a CS Borg to jaunt on down into the underground facilities to realize something weird is going on. Not to mention that they would most likely recognize Mechanoid tech in Goodsoon as soon as they tried to apply Psionics to him at which point they'll start to ask questions that end with him being torn apart and examined. Also the satellite uplink would be discovered and I can guarantee the CS has some knowledge about how those work and utilizing triangulation woukd find ARCHIEs broadcast point. It just doesn't make sense with everything else that has been written about ARCHIE. I realize it's a moot point to argue because whatever is published is published, it just seems off to me and I think I'll be excluding the TR-1000 from my games for that reason.

Uh... ARCHIE isn't an AI he is A.I.... actually not that either he is a N.I.. There is a thread on that. Also raid the compound... doesn't mean ARCHIE's compound it means Titan Robotics compound and that isn't near ARCHIE's base it is on the Great Lakes. With something smarter than a human making a cover story it is unlikely that they will be able to link Titan Robotics to ARCHIE except as I made up with them determining that Titan Robotics is an enemy of the Shemmarians PERIOD because the CS doesn't know that the Shemmarians are ARCHIE's and as I recall they don't even know about ARCHIE.

You can guarantee that the CS has knowledge of how sats work when they can't communicate with anything in space... yeah ok. Lets see if we aim it at this shiny object in geosyncronous orbit we get some beeps and then it shuts off, if we aim it at this one we also get beeps and shut it shuts off, knowledge limited they'd likely be working off the thought that the angle of the dish and the location of the sat produces a reflection which they can figure out the angle... but sats don't do that they often use one dish for receive and another for transmit and can't be figured out by triangulation. Now the thing with sat dishes are they can be repurposed or at least made to look like they are line of site microwave comm dishes and then they can claim they use them to communicate with their prototype subs at sea.

Goodsoon solution = TR gets sensor warnings of CS approach Goodsoon gone. OR Goodsoon admits to being a random psychic and has auto mindblock, he doesn't have to register because they aren't CS and don't have to. BTW how would they recognize the Mechanoid tech? I don't recall anywhere that the Mechanoids reached the CS or even fell into their hands... I could have missed it. Sub bays equal hangar for subs they are developing.

Mallak's Place wrote:I think it is a set up by Archie that will allow him to pull the plug on Titan Robotics. TR was originally used to gather information and maybe some rare materials that Archie wanted, but now he has other means of acquiring those things. Meanwhile TR has grown and expanded and is now a major liability to him. If any government is going to find out about Archie it is most likely going to be through Titan Robotics. He also knows it is only a matter of time before the CS more to take a hard look at TR
So Archie has decided to take out TR himself before that can happen. He has TR make a robot that uses Shemarian weapons tech, supposedly reverse engineered. Shemarians are noted for being rabid about other people having there tech. So I don’t think it will be to any ones surprise to learn that a large group of Shemarians manage to locate and attacked Titan Robotics secret Main Assembly and Manufacturing Plant, Killing everyone and leveling the place and leaving nothing usable behind.
Other Robot manufactures won’t care as they just lost a major competitor and the CS will probably not look to hard as a major weapons supplier to their enemies has just been eliminated. And any leads to the origins to TR will be up in smoke.

Phase Two: Several weeks after the destruction of Titan Robotics, people claiming to be highly trained researchers and survivors of the Shemarian Slaughter start showing up at other Robot and weapons manufacturing companies, offing to trade secret TR designs and information, that they managed to save, for Employment, Protection and Citizenship. Archie’s new breed of infiltration robots!

Hmm... what are his other ways of gaining intel far from his location especially in CS territory? Ah... with your phase two.

Smashed wrote:Personally I see a good out of game reason for it. There should be something that links TR and Archie3. Having there be no links that a PC could discern would be no fun, and from a story telling perceptive if things like it weren't there, then Archie3 shouldn't be behind TR.

Plus for me, my in-game reason for it is simple, remember Archie3 while increasingly intelligent lacks creativity. That's what Hagan is for, and it is completely human to repeat the same atheistic design (the Shemarrians were designed under Hagan association with Archie3 right? and even if he wasn't seeing the design might of unconsciously affected his input).

Why should there be a link? There's nothing that says a PC should have to be able to figure out everything or even have a reason to suspect something's not quite what they think. ARCHIE-3 makes every effort to NOT have any links floating around, about the only thing that put him at risk was leaving his old idea man alive instead of making sure he was reduced to ash leading to the ARCHIE-3OZ encounter in the original Source Book. Even that provides zero connection to either the Shemarrians or TR to ARCHIE-3. In the Mechanoids Sourcebook he even does yet another radical redesign just so the Mechanoids and everyone else won't connect Hagan's actions to him. He's not going to slip up and leave some trail back to himself or link his creations together especially not something so blatant.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Dr Megaverse wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

That may just be me thinking twisted, but I'd hope that the authors think closer to this way than.... Oops ARCHIE made a mistake and we're setting up the story line so he'll get caught by the CS.

Plausible I suppose. However the note under the weapon states the CS will most likely raid the compound and shut it down because it harbors an alien intelligence which Ishpeming agreed to not have in it's borders as per their CS treaty. "Raid the compound" doesn't sound like they intend to leave any stone unturned and all it takes is a CS Borg to jaunt on down into the underground facilities to realize something weird is going on. Not to mention that they would most likely recognize Mechanoid tech in Goodsoon as soon as they tried to apply Psionics to him at which point they'll start to ask questions that end with him being torn apart and examined. Also the satellite uplink would be discovered and I can guarantee the CS has some knowledge about how those work and utilizing triangulation woukd find ARCHIEs broadcast point. It just doesn't make sense with everything else that has been written about ARCHIE. I realize it's a moot point to argue because whatever is published is published, it just seems off to me and I think I'll be excluding the TR-1000 from my games for that reason.

Uh... ARCHIE isn't an AI he is A.I.... actually not that either he is a N.I.. There is a thread on that. Also raid the compound... doesn't mean ARCHIE's compound it means Titan Robotics compound and that isn't near ARCHIE's base it is on the Great Lakes. With something smarter than a human making a cover story it is unlikely that they will be able to link Titan Robotics to ARCHIE except as I made up with them determining that Titan Robotics is an enemy of the Shemmarians PERIOD because the CS doesn't know that the Shemmarians are ARCHIE's and as I recall they don't even know about ARCHIE.

You can guarantee that the CS has knowledge of how sats work when they can't communicate with anything in space... yeah ok. Lets see if we aim it at this shiny object in geosyncronous orbit we get some beeps and then it shuts off, if we aim it at this one we also get beeps and shut it shuts off, knowledge limited they'd likely be working off the thought that the angle of the dish and the location of the sat produces a reflection which they can figure out the angle... but sats don't do that they often use one dish for receive and another for transmit and can't be figured out by triangulation. Now the thing with sat dishes are they can be repurposed or at least made to look like they are line of site microwave comm dishes and then they can claim they use them to communicate with their prototype subs at sea.

Goodsoon solution = TR gets sensor warnings of CS approach Goodsoon gone. OR Goodsoon admits to being a random psychic and has auto mindblock, he doesn't have to register because they aren't CS and don't have to. BTW how would they recognize the Mechanoid tech? I don't recall anywhere that the Mechanoids reached the CS or even fell into their hands... I could have missed it. Sub bays equal hangar for subs they are developing.

Note: At present the CS believes Titan Robotics has managed to copy the rail gun of the alien warrior women known as Shemarrians, but this could be a tactical error on the part of ARCHIE Three. It could lead the Coalition States realizing that the Shemarrians are not cybernetic aliens, but the robot creations of Titan Robotics! This will send the Coalition Army to raid and shut down Titan Robotics and place it on the CS Enemies list. Under the CS alliance pact with Ishpeming and Manistique both nations agree they will not knowingly harbor an alien or dangerous threat to the Coalition States -- and ARCHIE Three IS just that. Consequently, neither nation will challenge or interfere with the Coalitions attack on Titan Robotics (which also eliminates a serious competitor). Such a turn of events seems only a matter of time, and will also cause the Coalition to launch an intense and extensive investigation into the Shemarrian tribes of the east. Such an investigation could, in turn, lead to the discovery of ARCHIE Three's factory compound and lair in Maryland (and possibly the discovery of the Republicans as well). Merc Ops pg 84

Seems pretty cut and dried to me....

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

Interesting idea, but there is a flaw in it. ARCHIE already knows pretty much everything this plan would get him. Remember, he already had a few hundred impostor/converted Skelebots in the Coalition's ranks throughout the CS as a whole. So he already has eyes and sensor scans of darn near everything the CS has, save the interiors of their civilian centers and the locations of their secret facilities (or so I'd hope).

Nightmask wrote:

Grell wrote:It definitely looks like a careless move, but with ARCHIE nothing is ever what it seems...

It's probably a simplistic 'time to destroy ARCHIE-3 like we did Tolkeen' move, although who knows maybe the creative ideas here will filter up the chain and result in it being retconned into actually being a clever and convoluted plot on ARCHIE-3's part.

Actually, that cold be a fun development. What if the chain of events spin in to an unexpected war (and series of books like the SoT series) between the CS and the forces of Archie? Think about it. Archie has been mass-producing android soldiers for decades upon decades. And unlike the bots, PA, and Skelebots of the Coalition, Archie has been suffering negligible losses from attrition in the field. He still has pretty much everything he ever made! So should the CS investigate and take swift action against Titan Robotics, given Archie's brand or paranoia, it could push him into launching a preemptive attack. What would the CS do if a wave of twenty million androids swarmed the land as an act of retaliation for an attack on TR, especially if the CS didn't' realize what kind of hornet's nest they were stirring up? Could make for a good series to shake up the NA landscape! Hell, they could even tie that into one of the Poor Yoric prophesies.

@ DB ...

Shake up North America ?

You mean like oSB1 Archie3 ?
You mean like SB2 Mechaniods ?

As a Single Sourcebook like SB1 & SB2, yeah sure. More Archie3 the better.

There are a few additional ways to handle this that do not lead back to Archie-3:

(1.) Aside from styling choice, couldn't TR reveal that the weapon in question is a knockoff/reverse engineered Glitterboy boomgun that trades the raw stopping power and range in for one without the side-effects (the Shem gun doesn't have the same side effects as the BG), possibly even mention a sound suppression system. The styling resembling the Shem gun being simple coincidence, possibly indicating that the Shem gun also uses a sound suppression system.

(2.) IIRC the SOT4: CK book (may be another book) does mention a non-Shem having the weapon. Perhaps the weapon can be traced back this way to someone who acquired it and then sold it to TR.

(3.) If FQ gets a look at the weapon they may find it being similiar to their BGs and come to a conclusion such as indicated in number1. Then again they may also know of pre-Rifts versions of similiar capacity, but where not able to acquire/duplicate the silencer.

Here's an possible, though very unlikely thought, maybe Hagan is selling them behind ARCHIE-3's back. It's been a while since I've read up on them, but just how ingrained is ARCHIE-3 in Hagan's head? ARCHIE may not really need or want cash, but Hagan might.

Mercdog wrote:Here's an possible, though very unlikely thought, maybe Hagan is selling them behind ARCHIE-3's back. It's been a while since I've read up on them, but just how ingrained is ARCHIE-3 in Hagan's head? ARCHIE may not really need or want cash, but Hagan might.

Given ARCHIE-3 gives Hagan pretty much whatever he might want or need he wouldn't have a reason to do anything like that.

TechnoGothic wrote:The CS is what happens when a Union takes control over those who are suppose to keep them in check.
Chicago union with unlimited power.

Are you talking about a trade union or as in the Union of the civil war? If it is the former I really fail to see any similarity and also in either case I fail to see the relevance to this thread.

Really I think this probably is one which slipped through the net, I really doubt Kevin will follow up on this because if there's anyone he likes more as a villain than the CS it's Archie.

I actually dislike when big plot points such as this are mentioned as notes in things such as equipment descriptions rather than in a proper chapter devoted to plot devopments. If I'm reading through a book and I skip all the details of that particular robot or something I shouldn't miss out on some major plot point.

In the end it does seem out of character for Archie and I'll personally ignore this in my games.

Dr Megaverse wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Dr Megaverse wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

That may just be me thinking twisted, but I'd hope that the authors think closer to this way than.... Oops ARCHIE made a mistake and we're setting up the story line so he'll get caught by the CS.

Plausible I suppose. However the note under the weapon states the CS will most likely raid the compound and shut it down because it harbors an alien intelligence which Ishpeming agreed to not have in it's borders as per their CS treaty. "Raid the compound" doesn't sound like they intend to leave any stone unturned and all it takes is a CS Borg to jaunt on down into the underground facilities to realize something weird is going on. Not to mention that they would most likely recognize Mechanoid tech in Goodsoon as soon as they tried to apply Psionics to him at which point they'll start to ask questions that end with him being torn apart and examined. Also the satellite uplink would be discovered and I can guarantee the CS has some knowledge about how those work and utilizing triangulation woukd find ARCHIEs broadcast point. It just doesn't make sense with everything else that has been written about ARCHIE. I realize it's a moot point to argue because whatever is published is published, it just seems off to me and I think I'll be excluding the TR-1000 from my games for that reason.

Uh... ARCHIE isn't an AI he is A.I.... actually not that either he is a N.I.. There is a thread on that. Also raid the compound... doesn't mean ARCHIE's compound it means Titan Robotics compound and that isn't near ARCHIE's base it is on the Great Lakes. With something smarter than a human making a cover story it is unlikely that they will be able to link Titan Robotics to ARCHIE except as I made up with them determining that Titan Robotics is an enemy of the Shemmarians PERIOD because the CS doesn't know that the Shemmarians are ARCHIE's and as I recall they don't even know about ARCHIE.

You can guarantee that the CS has knowledge of how sats work when they can't communicate with anything in space... yeah ok. Lets see if we aim it at this shiny object in geosyncronous orbit we get some beeps and then it shuts off, if we aim it at this one we also get beeps and shut it shuts off, knowledge limited they'd likely be working off the thought that the angle of the dish and the location of the sat produces a reflection which they can figure out the angle... but sats don't do that they often use one dish for receive and another for transmit and can't be figured out by triangulation. Now the thing with sat dishes are they can be repurposed or at least made to look like they are line of site microwave comm dishes and then they can claim they use them to communicate with their prototype subs at sea.

Goodsoon solution = TR gets sensor warnings of CS approach Goodsoon gone. OR Goodsoon admits to being a random psychic and has auto mindblock, he doesn't have to register because they aren't CS and don't have to. BTW how would they recognize the Mechanoid tech? I don't recall anywhere that the Mechanoids reached the CS or even fell into their hands... I could have missed it. Sub bays equal hangar for subs they are developing.

Note: At present the CS believes Titan Robotics has managed to copy the rail gun of the alien warrior women known as Shemarrians, but this could be a tactical error on the part of ARCHIE Three. It could lead the Coalition States realizing that the Shemarrians are not cybernetic aliens, but the robot creations of Titan Robotics! This will send the Coalition Army to raid and shut down Titan Robotics and place it on the CS Enemies list. Under the CS alliance pact with Ishpeming and Manistique both nations agree they will not knowingly harbor an alien or dangerous threat to the Coalition States -- and ARCHIE Three IS just that. Consequently, neither nation will challenge or interfere with the Coalitions attack on Titan Robotics (which also eliminates a serious competitor). Such a turn of events seems only a matter of time, and will also cause the Coalition to launch an intense and extensive investigation into the Shemarrian tribes of the east. Such an investigation could, in turn, lead to the discovery of ARCHIE Three's factory compound and lair in Maryland (and possibly the discovery of the Republicans as well). Merc Ops pg 84

Seems pretty cut and dried to me....

Yup... cut and dry. Nothing in that entire exerpt is certain. All of the "certainties" happen IF the uncertainties occur. So... none of it is cut and dry all of it is just a list of possibilities. Now, anything that is concrete?

Edit: that wasn't supposed to turn out that way...?

Dead Boy wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

Interesting idea, but there is a flaw in it. ARCHIE already knows pretty much everything this plan would get him. Remember, he already had a few hundred impostor/converted Skelebots in the Coalition's ranks throughout the CS as a whole. So he already has eyes and sensor scans of darn near everything the CS has, save the interiors of their civilian centers and the locations of their secret facilities (or so I'd hope).

So if he gets rid of everything all the data and plans he has will be based on out dated intel. The objective of intel is to be as current and up to date as possible. Maybe instead of just hacking skelebots he could infiltrate a few "Full Conversion Cyborgs with anti-psycher tech" or a "wild psychic with auto-mindblock" into the city maybe even get them serving in the military and advancing through the ranks. Then again what no one realizes is that Prosek and the high command are already ARCHIE bots, ARCHIE's first gift to humanity. Except for Joseph who was actually adopted.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

Interesting idea, but there is a flaw in it. ARCHIE already knows pretty much everything this plan would get him. Remember, he already had a few hundred impostor/converted Skelebots in the Coalition's ranks throughout the CS as a whole. So he already has eyes and sensor scans of darn near everything the CS has, save the interiors of their civilian centers and the locations of their secret facilities (or so I'd hope).

i'm sure once the CS starts moving to the East Coast the other factions will take notice cant recall if that was in Archie's plans but somehow i dont think it will end well for rifts earth laurel and hardey

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

Interesting idea, but there is a flaw in it. ARCHIE already knows pretty much everything this plan would get him. Remember, he already had a few hundred impostor/converted Skelebots in the Coalition's ranks throughout the CS as a whole. So he already has eyes and sensor scans of darn near everything the CS has, save the interiors of their civilian centers and the locations of their secret facilities (or so I'd hope).

i'm sure once the CS starts moving to the East Coast the other factions will take notice cant recall if that was in Archie's plans but somehow i dont think it will end well for rifts earth laurel and hardey

Wait which one is Laurel?

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Maybe just maybe ARCHIE has planned that the CS will investigate and will go to Titan robotics and will find there a manufacturing plant that is ran by humans with a human CEO and the whole get up basically a real functioning company as a front. After all he really isn't in it for the money because he doesn't need it. He's in it to get sensors out there. So now the CS goes and raids the company and finds that they captured a Shemmarian Railgun after defeating a Shemmarian. The doctored film shows the Shemmarians to be flesh and blood humanoids or full conversion borgs depending on which class they were recording, reinforcing the Shemmarian mythology. They find out that the Shemmarians attacked Titan Robotics while they were testing some new designs, which they modified with a new arm gun once they reverse engineered the rail gun, reinforcing that TR has no friendly links with the Shemmarians. The CS likes what they see in the video, that TR not only has now qualms about defending themselves against D-Bees but actually went out of their way to annihilate the entire Shemmarian hunting party and the radio in the recording showing how much the company hates D-Bees with the orders from corporate. The CS likes the companies enginuity(sp?) and ability to reverse engineer alien tech. The CS starts contracting TR to manufacture advanced weapons for them and maybe start developing new armor and vehicles with them. Suddenly All of the CS's stuff is now giving ARCHIE deployment data on all of the CS's military deployment and views from the inside of Chi-Town of places no-one ever has seen.

Interesting idea, but there is a flaw in it. ARCHIE already knows pretty much everything this plan would get him. Remember, he already had a few hundred impostor/converted Skelebots in the Coalition's ranks throughout the CS as a whole. So he already has eyes and sensor scans of darn near everything the CS has, save the interiors of their civilian centers and the locations of their secret facilities (or so I'd hope).

i'm sure once the CS starts moving to the East Coast the other factions will take notice cant recall if that was in Archie's plans but somehow i dont think it will end well for rifts earth laurel and hardey

I'm gonna guess Hagan=Laurel and ARCHIE = Hardey... why would it end poorly for them? When the CS advances with their equipment ARCHIE flips a logical switch and the CS forces go dark. That chip that engineers haven't been able to figure out what its for that their equipment won't work without... was implemented in all the designs that ARCHIE handed over to them.

grandmaster z0b wrote:Really I think this probably is one which slipped through the net, I really doubt Kevin will follow up on this because if there's anyone he likes more as a villain than the CS it's Archie.

I actually dislike when big plot points such as this are mentioned as notes in things such as equipment descriptions rather than in a proper chapter devoted to plot devopments. If I'm reading through a book and I skip all the details of that particular robot or something I shouldn't miss out on some major plot point.

In the end it does seem out of character for Archie and I'll personally ignore this in my games.

It is only out of charcter... IF it isn't a plan.