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I'm finally doing one of the biggest things a GM can do: I'm designing a setting of my own. I'm just starting out, with a semi-tropical archipelago, with a major trade city/port on the largest island.

I'm wondering if there are any general tips/methods for designing the pantheons of this new world. I've never really done either making my own world or gods or anything, so I'm curious of how other people do it

The best advice I can give you is to not give up. No matter how stuck you are, or criticism you get from other people, or anything - don't give up. With that said...

It might be easiest to design a small section of the archipelago first, like a section away from the major city, and then define its peoples and their customs. Once that is done, the religious pantheon should be relatively easy to do.

I agree. Design the worshippers first. What do they pray for the most? and design the pantheon around what fits the bill.

I like to start by looking at the environment to think about what gods would be worshipped. I think that the society would have been shaped by their religious beliefs, not the other way around, so I always start with the basic (majority worshipped) deities. Later, the society would develop lesser deities and those would then affect the further development of the society. How many gods you choose to incorporate will determine the age of the society. Also remember that as the society grows, some gods will merge with others tomform new gods as well.

I have one gaming world (an OLD d&d campaign) in which some people worship the 4 basic elementals; others worship 10 antediluvian dragons (the Dragon Gods); still others worship the 6 elder gods, the 34 younger gods, or the 57 lesser gods; and still others worship the spirits of their ancestors. Many characters (PC & NPC alike) choose to worship many different ones from the many groups while others have chosen to follow just one and others have even chosen to forego worship of the supernatural for the pursuit of alchemy and reasoning.

The biggest concern for the use of gods in a campaign world should be: "does this god enhance the gameplay of the world or hinder it?" If your answer is enhance, then use that god. Otherwise, leave it out.

Happy world-building!

Geography shapes society and sometimes society shapes geography.

They'll need water and resources to survive on. Their gods would likely crop up (no pun) around those resources.

Gazirra wrote:I'm wondering if there are any general tips/methods for designing the pantheons of this new world. I've never really done either making my own world or gods or anything, so I'm curious of how other people do it

Hi there,

that is a very exciting undertaking and question. I have done that and this is how I went about it:

WHO WAS FIRST: GODS OR MEN?
The first question I asked myself was whether gods are an entity unto themselves or a result, a function/figment of the imagination if you want, of Man's will to explain his surroundings, nature, his existence, purpose ... everything. My answer for the game was easy: I wanted strong gods, beings far beyond the powers Man can muster. So, of course, the gods have been there first, they are and will be no matter whether Man will be there. The gods are real, people who do not believe in their existence are clearly completely delusional.

For a completely different take from the classic(al) legends re the gods, you could let yourself be inspired by Roger Zelazny's fantastic book "LORD OF LIGHT", which I cannot recommend enough; it has just (2010) been re-released in the Gollancz SF Masterworks series. Lord of Light gives a new meaning to an "Alien Intelligence" , which in itself is already a cool take on godhood.

WHAT POWERS THE GODS: PRAYER ENERGY, BELIEF POWER OR ARE THE GODS WORSHIPPER INDEPENDENT?
The second question is more difficult, but a very important juncture in a deity's life. If he depends on worshippers this will give him a great motivation and need to keep them, defend them against others and get more of them.

An interesting alternative is "prayer energy", a god might not be powered by the number of worshippers (what I dub "belief power") but by the individual power of each prayer and the strength of sacrifice. That would enable a god with a small but very fervent - you could say: fanatic or dedicated - following to be as or more powerful than that of a god with a large number of more laid back believers.

In any of those cases however a deity would then be sort of a belief junkie. This is a neat thing, but I found that too profane. I went with independent gods, seemed more divine to me and I just could not have them depend on those puny mortals.

INDEPENDENT GODS: WHY CARE FOR THE PUNY MORTALS IF PRAYERS / NUMBERS ARE NOT NEEDED AS A POWER SOURCE?
Third question along my route to create gods was this: why will the gods care, meddle, grant prayers, etc. at all, if they are independent from their workshippers. My answer to this has been that the Gods - like the ancient Greek (and their Roman copies) gods just love to mess and involve themselves with humans.

In my world the gods are not so different from mortals with respect to their motivations. Maybe they are an enigma to humans, but the gods have ulterior as well as very base motives.

A little checklist on divine motives:

1. ADORE!: Many of them love to be adored, which is why they grant prayers.
2. THUG GODS: Some of them are brutal, evil and/or even sadistic and just like to mess with Man, bend him, make him bow, see him ground to dust by his former friends, corrupt, betray, murder, etc, which is why those grant prayers etc.
3. GREEN GODS: Some just love to see things (including Man) grow and flourish.
4. PHILANTROPOS TROPOS: Some may even fall in love with a human and like to create heroes or even demi-gods in the process - it is fun (just remember Zeus) and produces someone who may come in handy. More seriously still, (again in keeping with a tale regarding Zeus and others) some may just want to advance, further, empower, help mankind (see Prometheus).
5. THE ETERNAL GAME: Some just like to play - come on, many people love to play Civilization, why should the gods not see Man's world as a sort of real time "sim"? Maybe the gods have a great game between themselves going ("get X workshippers in a time period y" or "who gathers the most souls in one aeon" or "you will never be able to twist human hero Z to your aims" or "my workshippers will defend the flag, yours will try to take it, deal?") or as any big family not everyone really likes everyone else. In the latter scenario it will be very important to define the relationships, motivations and how far god X will go against god Y.
6. WAR OF THE GODS: Maybe fractions of the gods or pantheons are locked in an eternal, hot or cold war with each other; if so, it will be crucial too define what the rules of engangement are, whether they have some sort of Geneva convention going, how they fight - do they slug it out mano-o-mano, do they use avatars, do they only use mortals, any or all of these, etc.
7. COMPLETE ENIGMA / SELF-CENTRED GODS: Some may be so aloof that they could not care less about prayers, worshippers, etc. but still get involved if they can use Man as "guinea pigs" or other "research tools" or "scapegoats"/"trading goods" to get what they want from other gods, etc.

IS THERE ONLY ONE GOD OR ARE THERE MANY, IS THERE ONE PANTHEON OR MANY: WHAT IS THEIR RELATIONSHIP?
Fourth item. How many gods are there? Are they organized into pantheons or is it "each God for himself"? It is entirely conceivable to have more than one pantheon but those never come into contact with each other. I asked myself, though, believes, religion and thus the gods, "travel" in the "backpack of the conscience" of any merchant and traveller. So, creed will be travelling piggyback on greed, curiosity, expansionism and fear (emigration from poverty or oppression and such). In short, the gods will be taken to new places by travelling Man. Answer for yourself ... what happens then?

Alternatively, maybe there is in reality only one set of gods but they are worshipped under different names (maybe with different aspects) by the various peoples of Man's Planet.

Maybe, there is only one Evil God with the same name in any pantheon, and individually as strong as any pantheon, but not as strong as more than one pantheon acting together. That would make the pantheon of 3 as strong as the pantheon of 7 or mono-god X and "the ancient adversary" (Sean Connery voice saying atvershary).

NOW: CREATING A PANTHEON
Fifth item, make some gods. Dragons & Gods is a great book; I honestly think it is an RPG supplement masterwork! Appropriate a couple or all of them for your pantheon, especially read the story of Rurga and sit mouth agape when you see HOW deadly seriously that god-gal takes honesty.

If you do not want that, I would look at the Greek, Roman, Slavic, Norse, etc. etc. panetheons. Bulfinch's Age of Fable is a truly awe-inspiring and beautiful source.

Personally, I always have been particularly enarmoured with Columbia Games Gods of Hârn (now called "Harnmaster Religion"). You will find 10 gods there who are all extremely fleshed out, including clerical robes, holy symbol, mythos/legend, divine servants and whatnot else. A good start on these wonderful deities can be found in the Archives of the Hârn Religion Team, the website Lythia.com is THE nexus for all things Hârn, you will find free adventures, LOADs of very well done maps (cities, towns, etc.), etc.

And here you will find information on the Gods of Greyhawk: Gods of Greyhawk summary and detail. And here you will get all the detail you could wish for: THE Greyhawk link: CANONFIRE; type in the name of the Greyhawk god you are interested into the search box and search especially for articles by the great "CruelSummerLord" which on the gods are either called "The Gods of the Flanaess..." or "On the Religions of the Flanaess...", in each case followed by "...:[God's Name]". There was a great website on this before, the Kingdom of Nyrond website; it had a sector called "University of Rel Astra", where you could find good overview info on the Greyhawk gods PLUS awesome artwork, but the website is as it seems down now. Anyways, if any of the Gods of Greyhawk peaks your interest, you will not find a better source of information than on Canonfire!

In any case, all that - especially Bulfinch (should you not have seen it before) - will inspire you deeply and you will get ideas which of these guys and what sort of tales you want in/for YOUR pantheon.

Come to think of it, semi-divine hero stories do not get much more heroic than the Celtic ones. You may want to consider to "steal" from those tales, too.

I would also, as Dark Elf and other fellow posters rightly said, look at your society, its geography, its needs, desires, wishes.

1. Is Man warlike? There will be a War God.
2. Is you city decadent? There will be a god of debauchery.
3. Is the civilization evil, what do they do with prisoners: human sacrifice, eat them, kill them, enslave them? There will be a god for that.
4. Is the society agrarian? There will be a god for agriculture, bountiful harvests and all that.
Does the society have a big navy or is near the sea? There will be a sea god, if not there will be a likely less powerful river god.
5. Is there a big old forest? There will be a forest god, a "green man" maybe.
6. Is there a lot of trade, does money play a big role? There will be a trade god.
7. ... etc. etc. etc.

WHAT POWERS DOES YOUR GOD, DO THE GODS IN GENERAL HAVE?
Sixth item: meat to the bones!

On omnipresence and omniscence: is that the right thing for your pantheon(s)?
A god in a monotheistic religion tends to be omnipresent and omniscent. Gods in pantheons usually are not (Odin is an exception but he has his ravens and wolves to send around and they will then report to him, I would call that "DELAYED BLAST NEWS"). Also, omnipresence and omniscence can be a wee bit confusing if you have a whole slew of gods. Moreover, it makes it more interesting if even the gods can be tricked and do not necessarily know everything.

Whether or not to stat out a god.
I would and recommend  it because I love the idea that it is just possible, even if horribly difficult to say the least, kill a god. Pantheons of the Megaverse (RIFTS), another inspiring book has great examples for that - just give Thor a glance, the hammer damage, especially if you go by simple 1 MDC = 100 SDC damage conversion is, as I think it should be, he is a god after all, world shaking.

On the power of gods to kill mortals and vice versa
Of course, a god, probably even the weakest can kill a mortal with a flick of his hand or an ironic smile, but I always found it better to have an in-game explanation for that which does not reek of deus ex machina but much rather "come on, it is Kali, she has loads of arms, stands for death ... What did you expect, 4 attacks per round?" Feel free, methinks to give a god many more APR. An avatar, though, that is a different matter!

Mind, though, gods are not meant for the easy meat grinder, at least that is what I think. A god should be killable, but that may be as close to impossible as you want. He who wants to wuss slap a god better has a well laid plan ... and you know what often happens to the plains of mice and men. Let your heroes tell Nietsche, "DUH! No god is dead unless you take up sword & spell and do the job for real!".

Can a god be in more than one place at once or does he have to use proxies?
Still, the question remains ... how many actions can a god do at once? Can he be in two or more places at once, for real or via "avatars" ("clones")? Must he use proxies instead - which I think is the cooler alternative.

How does the god impart his wisdom, wishes, etc. to his worshippers?

1. Speaks directly.
2. Speaks in riddles.
3. Via an oracle.
4. Via visions.
5. Via signs. Can they be read easily, only by the initiated, via auguries (birds flight, cats entrails, etc).
6. Speaks through his priests (really? or do they just say so?)
7. Speaks through simple people (Joan of Arc, etc.).
8. Sends messengers and speaks through them (like angels, divine servants).
9. etc.

CAN MAN BECOME A GOD? APOTHEOSIS!
Seventh item. A great theme. If you do not know them, Steven Erickson's Malzan Book of the Fallen is awesome and IMHO the greatest fantasy book or series on this topic. Can Man become a god? How? What are the steps? What are the bumps in the road? Must he kill a god and take his place? Does he have a choice what his "area of competence" is? Or, is that already "within him"? Awesome theme for a great campaign ... The "mythical" Dragonwright campaign must have been somewhat about this...

My two cents.

Have fun!

Cheers
Hendrik

Hiya,

a PS:

HOW CONDUITIVE IS REALM X TO WORSHIP? CONDITIONS MATTER!
I forgot to mention my item no. 8 - the human reaction to the gods, extent, general fervor and laws of worship.

Some questions for this which I asked myself:

1. Tolerance: Is kingdom X or city Y tolerant of foreign religions? How tolerant? Is it free for and open to all?

2. Preference: How choosy are the people even with regard to their own pantheon? 

3. Prohibition / Persecution: Is a certain god not wanted, are his worshippers actually hunted down? 

4. State Religion: Is there a state religion? 

5. State Religion Benefits (and detriments to others): Is it in place on the expense of others? What are the state religions benefits in contrast to any other religion? Is there a church tax (tithe or other)?

6. Secret Cults: Are there secret (evil or good) cults? Where do they meet? Which strata of society do the secret cults involve?

7. Legal Advantages of Clerics: Do clerics have the right to deny trial by state/royal/secular courts and demand trial by canonical courts (Benefit of the Cloth)?

8. Worldly Powers: Do clerics hold land as lords temporal and/or canonical? What are their power games? Are certain high priests (see the Prince-Bishops in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) actually (Prince-)Electors who have a powerful vote when the King is elected?

9. No Worldly Powers, what income: Or, are clerics forbidden to hold secular office? What is their source of income?

10. "Holy Army": Do all, some or none of the churches have a "private standing army", or even a knight order or just some (or many) temple guards? How is that leverage used? How is upkeep paid? What is the relationship to the royal troops/ city watch etc. (think The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas, but anyone will know the story between the Cardinal and the King and Queen as well as a certain group of fast friends in 17th century France but it is a good example for a powerful temporal role of a prince of the church - for a very nice fantasy take of the historical Richelieu and "friends" I would like to draw The Cardinal's Blades/The Alchemist in the Shadows by Pierre Pevel to your attention.)?

11. Special Position: Is highpriest X of religion Y in a special position? Advisor to the king? Confessor of royalty (does he use information gained under the confessional secret, if there is such)? Is he like a king in his domain (medieval pope in certain times is a good example for that)?

12. Stance on Magic: What is each churches stance on magic? Are mages of any, some or no kind persecuted by a/the church(es)? Is there an inquisition, what are its powers? Or, is magic seen as a divine gift or even just as normal as the use of hand and mouth? Are mages actually the only priests? Katherine Kurz's DERYNI SERIES of novels is a great example and I would like to recommend it; the Deryni have very cool magic or if you want psionic power, ideal for Mind Mages and their "ilk" ... do mages of a certain kind maybe preferentially choose to be a cleric or are they even predominately/only chosen for such office?

Kind regards
Hendrik

post-post scriptum:

13. Celibacy: Are the priests of God X under a vow of celibacy? Is that demanded by the God (why do people think so, did he/she appear)? Or, is it demanded by human commentary/rules? Is it adhered to? What is the punishment if not / what happens to any issue?

- issue reared in the cloister / temple?
- issue reared elsewhere?
- issue reared with/without knowledge of real parents?
- is upkeep of any issue paid for by the church, or by whom or not?
- how does such issue usually react?
- does priest/monk/nun/etc have to leave the temple/ cast out on such infraction or is there a more/less severe punishment)

Example: Priestesses of Vesta / the so-called Vestal virgins in Rome had to be celebate. Any sexual relationship with a citizen was considered an act of treason; the punishment for violating the oath of celibacy was to be buried alive in the Campus Sceleratus or "Evil Field" with a few days of food and water.

- is issue killed or sold into slavery by temple (or in secret by father/mother); is that punished by the temple or condoned?


14. No-Celibacy: If there is no celibacy, does e.g. a God of Fertility or his priesthood actually demand lots of children? Where are they put/reared (see some of the questions under 13. above)? Are Saturnalia or the wilder Bacchanalia celebrated?

15. Rites: What also fleshes out a religion very much and is extremely important for a society as such:

- What are the burial rites (sea, earth, fire, only the deceased is buried or also his close henchment/servants and/or wife, etc.)?
- Is burial a happy thing or a sad thing, what is the religion's view on death? What is the mourning colour, are there special traditions (for example: "grieving women" who are paid to do that tearing their hair in a procession to a cementary)?
- Are there any marriage vows, how does a wedding look like; what is the legal consequence of marriage?
- What is the view of the priesthood regarding equality of men and women? Is that reflected in the priesthood itself?
- Are children baptized, are there other special rights?
- Can a non-member by birth be accepted into the faith at a later stage; under which conditions?


16. Efficiency of "clerical spells" / "faith powers": If you play with "clerical spells" or some other faith powers, are they as efficient when a priest of God X "casts" the prayer on a worshipper of another God? Would that be half efficiency (for example by cutting healing dice down by 1/2) or would it not work at all (e.g. no healing for "the others"? If you have pantheons you might want to extend the efficiency of prayers within the pantheon and cutting down efficiency to zero between the pantheons? Of course, that would not make a "direct miracle" by the God himself impossible (well maybe he cannot, maybe he better does not because his colleagues may not view what may be considered worshipper-poaching too kindly).

I have handled it like this:
Every cleric chooses a panetheon and then a patron ("his" god) within the pantheon. Miracles by his patron are at double efficiency for him and he his immune to any negative "spell effects" from his deity (that for example makes it possible for a fire god priest to walk through the fire from his god as if it was nothing (as long as his faith is strong enough; if a god wants to burn you, he burns you). Any other negative miracles from any other god work at normal efficiency against such cleric. Any beneficial miracles from within "his" pantheon work at 1/2 value, and those from gods from without "his" pantheon do not work at all. This restricts e.g. healing miracles very much, which I find nice.

Forgot that, but think it is socially and for a PC cleric very important.

Cheers
Hendrik

one thing to consider which tends to make these things easier for you, and deeper in general, is to play it with your group and let the campaign do the heavy lifting. if you set up a timeline of major events, then run mini campaigns with your group at key points on that timeline they will fill in a lot of the gaps and give you tons of detail to work with. your group will also feel more connected to the world when they finally roll up long term characters and start playing the 'real' campaign too.

There are going to be common gods depending on the wants of and fears of the people. If the people are a war like people... there will be a god of war. From what you said already there is going to be a god of the sea, possibly another god who is a merchant as these people are all about the trade. How are the people's thoughts on sex? There would probably be a goddess of sex and/or fertility. Just about every culture is going to have a fatherly/motherly god who provides some kind of stability in the pantheon. And there is going to me a god of mischief or "evil" (in a trading village he/she might be a thief or a cheat). There is also going to be a god of death in this case probably some dark entity the people believe drag people's souls into the deep dark of the ocean... or possibly ferrys them out to a land of light... depending on their feelings on death.

Hey Gazzira im gonna plug an ad at you my godlings game is players forming their own pantheon.
let me know if you are interested.