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So, I read through the books and soaked up as much knowledge as I could on the zombie phenomenon according to Palladium. I was excited about it, and I decided to run a DR campaign on one of the PBP forums (The Storm Watch). It's not the first campaign I'm running there - I'm currently running an HU and a PFRPG campaign there, which I happen to enjoy doing (on both counts). And I had been asked to think about taking over the DR campaign on EU, so I needed to get my feet wet, so to speak.

I can honestly say that I am not impressed with being a GM for DR. It doesn't have that whole survival horror thing going for it that I was hoping would come out. The premise was that the wave hit in December 1874, and now it's February 1875. 4 characters are in Philadelphia (or, the outskirts), and 1 character is trying to escape Philadelphia through the masses. I ran one combat, with the 4 characters coming across 4 zombies. And for all of the talk here about how tough the zombies are, the characters dispatched them with relative ease. 2 rounds of combat, and the zombies were destroyed.

There was no fear. There was no running away from them. All the descriptions I gave, and nothing. I found myself finding excuses to not post what was happening or going on. It doesn't have the flair that I was looking for in the game.

Am I alone in this? Am I the only one who's not entirely impressed with this game from the standpoint of being a GM? Maybe if I was a player I'd feel differently. Maybe it's just not my style of game for being a GM. Am I cracked, or am I being too overly critical of the game?

You players must have been rolling a lot of natural 17-20's to manage to destroy the zombies that quickly. Did the zombies not moan in all that time to attract more swarms of undead?

I read through all the rules, and even spoke to my players about combat:

1. Called shots to the head. I asked my players to include descriptions of where they were aiming, and they all indicated called shots to the head.

2. The dice were in the favor of the players. They use IC, and it's not that difficult to kill a zombie if the dice favor you.

3. Zombie AR is 14 according to the book. When you get done adding in bonuses to the dice rolls, the dice rolls were high.

4. Zombies cannot - and I don't care what anyone says - parry or dodge bullets.

5. Zombies don't start moaning until round 2.

well me personaly love running DR. my game takes place 15 years in the future and the PCs r themselves just themselves 15 years in the future. for me i like the chalanges of GMing a DR game u have to think of different senerious for the players to run into and different moral dissions.

Could it be that survival horror -can't- survive translation to the play-by-post model? Too slow paced to feel the tension of death surrounding you?

paul, that's probably what it is. Although, there is a DR game running on Explorer's Unlimited, so maybe it's just me.

Fact. Just yesterday I put my name in the waiting list for EU/OW DR PBP campaign. From a lurker's standpoint it looks good, and is an evolving story. Four or five characters have died off since it's beginning with new players joining in at those points. But I think it is still exciting. Only thing is, if the players/GM don't post often you can lose the momentum.

Four zombies? No wonder they didn't run away. More like fourty zombies! Boyah!

paulvdaley wrote:Could it be that survival horror -can't- survive translation to the play-by-post model? Too slow paced to feel the tension of death surrounding you?

That's what I was thinking, because if my players were on line they would NOT be scared - when they were sitting in front of me, then the fear started! They had to make split-second decisions and many of them were the wrong decsision and it got them killed.
G

i love it in person face to face u see the players and they see u. there ur reactions as well as theres. set the mood lower lighting creepy sounds or for me i love to play "Nightmare" from avenged 7 fold. that always gets me in the mood.

You can't judge a game from only one session.
1875? That would be cool, but there would be a heck of a lot less zombies... Are they using muskets? Not very accurate... If they aren't scared yet, swarm them. Have one zombie start moaning right away (they don't have to wait till second round to moan, where did you read that?) And yeah, rolling great will keep you alive for quite a while but all it takes is one screw up at a critical time.
However, I do have some issues with the system as far as in general being scary. It seems like the only time when my chars were actually afraid was when they were breaking into a plane at Denver international airport, looked out over the runway and saw that it was literally crawling with zed. (Plan B, PLAN B!!!)

Philadelphia, 1875. The city, historically, had about 1,000,000 residents at the time of the wave, which gives us just about that many total zeds to deal with.

As far as weaponry goes, muskets were well on their way out at that time. Remington had a repeating rifle, Mr. Colt had a popular handgun, and grenades were starting to see prominence. We're not talking the auto-pistols and machine-guns of the modern era, but there was still some pretty decent weaponry.

The moaning - I could swear I saw it in the core rule book that zombies don't start moaning until round 2. I'll have to re-read that and see what I find.

I really did my research and homework on the historical aspects of the city and the weapons available. I didn't want to overwhelm them in their first fight, and there were only 4 players (1 was a modified hound master who had a bear and not a dog), so I wanted a decent fight but not too hard for them right away at the start of the game. Everyone aimed for the head all the time (I brought up and asked for a discussion on rolling location dice as the weapons of the time weren't that accurate, and everyone balked at that idea), and everyone rolled really well. Nobody was scared.

Again, maybe it was just my style of GM'ing this particular line. I'm GM'ing HU and PFRPG at the same time, and I've gotten nothing but compliments from my players. But DR...maybe it's just not the line I should be a GM for.

Severus Snape wrote:I really did my research and homework on the historical aspects of the city and the weapons available. I didn't want to overwhelm them in their first fight, and there were only 4 players (1 was a modified hound master who had a bear and not a dog), so I wanted a decent fight but not too hard for them right away at the start of the game. Everyone aimed for the head all the time (I brought up and asked for a discussion on rolling location dice as the weapons of the time weren't that accurate, and everyone balked at that idea), and everyone rolled really well. Nobody was scared.

Again, maybe it was just my style of GM'ing this particular line. I'm GM'ing HU and PFRPG at the same time, and I've gotten nothing but compliments from my players. But DR...maybe it's just not the line I should be a GM for.

Holy crap in a hat, I would hate to run into the bearmaster nowadays...
I would say that even though they don't like it, it was incredibly true that weapons back then weren't as accurate as now. The system is assuming that you are using precision made parts that are exactly the same up to the 1/32 of an inch. I don't think they were quite that close in 1875. I would stick in a bigger penalty because of that.
Have your players been complaining that it isn't scary?

the zombie moan is on page 25 in the main book. it says on page 26 that if you can silence the moan within 30 seconds or 2 melee rounds and as long as no other zeds spot the PCs then no other zeds will converge. on the other note about accuracey with firearms in my game the normal person can use a gun but if they dont practice they never get better, got to love the video game generation. i have it that if they roll a 5 or under theres a chance that something bad will happen, several friendly fire incidentses in my game, but as they practice and proper training they can get better.

See, when I read that thing about the zombie moan I misinterpreted it. I thought it was that the characters had until round 2 to wipe out the zombies before they start moaning and drawing more zombies to them. What can I say - I'm not a perfect GM.

And Revan, I agree with you on the fear thing here. PBP doesn't allow for scary situations to develop as players (and the GM) have all kinds of time to think through what's happened and what they are going to do. Eliminates fear.

I always run it that the "natural d20" roll has to beat the targeted called shot number. Makes it a little more difficult.

You may hit the overall target, but do you hit the specific location? Or could be explained - You hit the users armor plate, but due to the low natural strike roll, you do not penetrate it. Now, if the person spends the "3" attacks for a called shot and says they are going for the opening in "x targets helmet/rolled down window", then A.R. can be "ignored" of sorts.

Also in Dead Reign, "Aimed Shots" are 2 attacks/actions. "Called Shots" are 3 attacks/actions.

Pacing perhaps is a problem. You have to realize that the ability to think and analyze the situation is the major human advantage. In general, zombies don't think, aren't pro-active. Humans are, especially adventuring characters. You don't get to be a survivor by being stupid. Even though I say that, I've seen some really retarded DR players. So I guess luck comes into play. God must love idiots for as many as he allows to survive.

A common complaint I've seen from players is that everybody doesn't make use of the special classes, like Thinkers, or Impersonators. i mean, if you can successfully lure a group of players into an ambush like that, I think their appreciation and fear of zombies could be dramatically increased. Also, there is some consideration that the GM is likely to not be trying to actively kill the party. That alone can take away a lot of fear.

While the GM may not be actively trying to kill the party off, there needs to be real danger. There needs to be a good chance the entire party could wipe at any time. Mistakes should have a heavy, or potentially heavy cost. This is survival horror, so make sure that survival is something the characters always have in their mind.

I also saw somewhere mentioned that Zombies may be best treated like an environmental factor, rather than individuals. Zombies can best be thought of in a quote by General Colin Powell - "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." Another good quote is from the AMC series The Walking Dead. "Meryl wouldn't be slowed down by a few dumb dead bastards." - "Yeah? What about a thousand dumb dead bastards?" A zombie to a handful is nothing to fear, and can be dispatched easily enough. A hundred? A thousand? Better get a move on. Don't want to be there when they arrive and are hungry. Back to the environment though... you could almost think of them as weather. Or use a mob mentality, as that's what zombies act like.

The thing to consider is also, Zombies in all movies and literature are part of the backdrop. You could take out zombies and replace them with mobs, rioting, wildfires, flooding, drought/famine, a regular outbreak, chemical attack, or any other disaster and you would get the same effect. They're about human conflict and even party conflict. Everybody has different ideas about how best to survive, and what moves they should make. They all come from different backgrounds and the story is about how they either pull together or fall apart. In small numbers, zombies will be able to be handled. In large numbers, they're an environmental factor, and a very dangerous one.

Another thought on treating zombies like environmental factors. You could think of them kind of like water. They will take the path of least resistance, and they will try to get in anywhere they can, even if it has to move against gravity to do so. This being said, they won't go where there's generally not food. If they know something's there though, they could be very tenacious.

Human conflict is a major part of the zombie genre, and they put in great material for this with the Retro-savages, zombie lovers, and so on, as well as the Death Cults. I've not seen anyone make use of these so far in a PBP game. I ran a small test game with only a few characters once. In that version, I used the inoculation wave model and the military hadn't received the injection, for the most part. One of the main characters was a 75th Ranger, and his daddy actually ran Ft Benning in Georgia, which is the area where the game was taking place. The other characters there were his sister which was a beat cop from a small town/city, and his mother who was just a bank teller. His brother had been quite ill, and had taken the injection. He'd recovered, but wound up becoming a zombie in the wave. Family members had to take care of him.

It was very stressful for the characters, but they did make it to Ft. Benning. They didn't have far to go, and the Ranger had avoided the major cities, and in so doing, avoided a lot of your usual dangers. Benning was a different story though. They managed to get on base, but after that it was a Man on Island scenario. Lots of troops, guns, supplies, but they were surrounded by zombies in the woods. There were shooters out there, taking care of them, but there were enough to keep the base penned in. Meanwhile, a group of cultists had gathered up a bunch of walkers, and some runners, and a few thinkers, using them for lieutenants, and organized a coordinated attack on the base.

So now, you have human and zombie conflict, and you've essentially got a raiding/recruiting party. (They're the only army that doesn't kill. They recruit!) With human direction, as well as thinker assistance, and distractions they were able to get much closer and do some damage. If the pace was kept up, they'd be whittled down. It was coming to a point where something would have to be done. And since zombies don't show up on thermal/infra-red, who knows how long it's going to be before they start leaking into the base when people are asleep? What happens when these Rangers wake up to find zombies milling about in the PX?

I would personally **** myself if I came home to find a zombie watching TV on my couch. It wouldn't be because "Holy crap, its a zombie." It would be more like "Holy crap, zombies! Where's the rest of them?" Usually where there's one, there's more. It's usually the zombies you don't see that get you, or the ones you get mobbed by.

Make the zombies hit home. Make the situation heart-wrenching, and gut twisting. Disrupt the character's sleep with noises and moans in the night. Shake them up. Rattle their cages. Make them make painful decisions. Throw zombie children at them. Do they shoot the little girl in a pink bathrobe clutching a teddy bear with one hand, who's missing part of her face, or run away? Can they run away, or is it a fast-attacker? If they run, do they leave the problem for someone else? If they shoot the girl, what does that do to their mind and spirit? How long do they hesitate before they have to shoot?

Speaking of things that hit home, and hit deep within the character... What about the guy that ran to save his own skin while the zombies ate his wife and children? How does he deal with that? Can he live with being a coward, or is it "Better them than me"? Could you handle being surrounded by the smell of continual roadkill in various states of decay, the overwhelming stench of feces and urine, as well as the constant smell of ash and smoke on the wind? What about being in a sturdy little building, surrounded by zombies, and all you hear all the time is nails scratching on the side of the building and the constant droning moan of a horde of zombies, day and night, continuing without end? Could you deal with the pounding on the walls? For how long?

What about if you finally do meet another human... how crazy is he or she? Is she a mock zombie? Is she going to knife you in your sleep and take all your crap? Are they going to lead you into a trap tomorrow?

Back to the GM screwing the players. Don't set your players up to fail automatically. The Man on an Island scenario isn't fun to start out in, and doesn't build suspense, tension, pacing, or any of the other necessary things to get a player started. It just builds an outlook of "Well, this is stupid/boring/pointless. I don't want to be stuck here, waiting until they bust down the door."

For those of us that are TL;DNR:
Treat zombies like mobs/weather, and not individuals. In 1's and 2's, to 6's, they're not that big of deal. It's the group that is the problem. Focus more on the players and storytelling than combat. Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.

I agree with all of your points, TS. It's just that in a PBP setting, a lot of those things don't matter to the players. Days can go by where the players are able to think about what is going on before posting their reactions as opposed to being around a table where you have precious minutes or seconds to react.

I also didn't want to wipe out the party at first, I just wanted to get their feet wet before they got into Philadelphia. You know, give us all a chance to figure out mano-a-zombie combat. Which they handled rather easily, and that's partially my fault for not remembering that called shots are 3 attacks, thereby giving all of the players triple the number of attacks in a combat round that they should have had. Again, my bad as I'm the GM and I should have known this and used it.

I wanted to use some fast zombies to "cull the herd", so to speak, at a future time. Get one of the characters who isn't all that good with a gun alone and against some zombies that move quicker than they do. I wanted to use a couple mock zombies (or even half-living) to lure them into "safe" locations where the hordes were waiting. But without a sense of urgency or fear....kind of pointless, isn't it?

Uhhh... why Half-Living?

I ask....why not? Every OCC can be used against the players.

True, but Half Living are intended to be heroic, if not a bit tragic characters, that cling desperately to their humanity with tooth and nail. It is extremely rare (read non-existant) for a HL to be anything but a good guy.

Though, having bad ones is not out of the question, just extremely rare in an already rare demographic.