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More specifically, I have a character who has skills to repair armour, vehicles, etc.

Now their ship has been damaged and I know that the next time we play he is going to want to buy the parts himself and repair the vehicle. I don't want to stunt him as a player, but unless I just wave my hand and say "7 hours later it's fixed" it's going to create a LOT of down time in the game. Also being that they are in a city I know supplies are more likely to be abundant, but is it realistic for the local shop to sell MDC Plating ? Is there something in the book I can look to for MDC cost and repair time ? The vehicle in question is the one from Free Quebec (can't remember the name) but it's the one used as a Glitter Boy reloader (the one with the removable canopy and crane arm)

So that's my specific example, but how do you other GM's handle this, and just generic situations when you have someone with this kind of skill set who ALWAYS wants to do it himself ? I suppose next time he could be left at home when they go out on a mission if he needs to repair/modify something, but right now they are out in another town. Maybe I should make him drive the vehicle back (since it still runs, it's just damaged) and make him repair it in his own garage, this way it doesn't hold the game up for the other players ? Thoughts ?

I think the best way is to let the player do it, but tell him that it's going to take x number of hours or days and that the other characters may be out on their own without him while he's at his shop fixing his stuff. The first time you say this he'll be like "Well, that's no so bad - I'll just catch up to them when I'm done" or "I'll have to convince the others to just wait for me". And neither will happen, so he'll end up sitting there after fixing his stuff waiting for everyone to come back.

You don't want to punish him for playing a character that has the ability to fix his own things, but you can't punish the rest of the group into waiting around for him every single time he wants to do some repairs. Let him fix his stuff, but let the other players do whatever they want/need to in the time it takes for him to fix his stuff.

As for costs, I'll let someone else with a much better sense of the supplies needed in rifts weigh in on that.

Let the rest of the group accomplish whatever downtime tasks that you don't want to spend hours roleplaying out at the same time. Gather all the actions up, have them make the appropriate roles and then have the group move on together. You, in my opinion, shouldn't punish a character for using their skills. It should be rewarded.

I would be seriously upset if I made an Operator or other tech based character and had to sit out long sessions of roleplaying for using skills to help the group. Most PC's should have some downtime activities that they need to do, whether it is researching new spells or looking for a drug supplier if you are a Juicer to getting cybernetic upgrades or what have you.

Galroth wrote:Let the rest of the group accomplish whatever downtime tasks that you don't want to spend hours roleplaying out at the same time. Gather all the actions up, have them make the appropriate roles and then have the group move on together. You, in my opinion, shouldn't punish a character for using their skills. It should be rewarded.

I would be seriously upset if I made an Operator or other tech based character and had to sit out long sessions of roleplaying for using skills to help the group. Most PC's should have some downtime activities that they need to do, whether it is researching new spells or looking for a drug supplier if you are a Juicer to getting cybernetic upgrades or what have you.

On that note, I'd be seriously upset if I created a non-tech character who had to sit around and always wait for the one tech character in the group because he HAS to repair everything as soon as the damage happens or HAS to build something because that's when he gets the thought. Just because he needs the down-time doesn't mean my character does as well. To force the rest of the group to essentially wait for him is not fair to the rest of us playing.

It's a pretty rare character that doesn't need at least some downtime between "dungeon crawls".

Edit: And yes, if the tech character wanted to stop mid-adventure and do more than field repairs it would be better to handle it by taking him out of the action. But if you are in a town already where an active adventure isn't taking place why would you make that character sit out most of a session just for playing his character the way it was designed?

Edit 2: Sorry, in this specific example I'd let him repair a small amount of the MDC while they were camped for the night or whatever small amount of downtime they have. I thought they were actually in the city when he wanted to repair the vehicle. There are rules iirc under the Operator OCC for doing repairs in the field and how much MDC can be restored. Anything more than that needs to be handled when all the characters are in a town for downtime that is on purpose. Just make sure that the rest of the group gives him at least a 'little' off line time to use his skills and he should be happy.

@Severus: So your character's armor never gets damaged in any way. Don't forget that it takes the same amount of time to repair your armor per 10 MDC as it will take the tech character, the only variable is who has the more damaged equipment. When the group gets back to civilization, let the non-tech characters go get their equipment repaired/recharged while the tech characters does the same for his at half the cost (I am extrapolating here). I think that sounds fair.

Razzinold wrote:More specifically, I have a character who has skills to repair armour, vehicles, etc.

Now their ship has been damaged and I know that the next time we play he is going to want to buy the parts himself and repair the vehicle. I don't want to stunt him as a player, but unless I just wave my hand and say "7 hours later it's fixed" it's going to create a LOT of down time in the game. Also being that they are in a city I know supplies are more likely to be abundant, but is it realistic for the local shop to sell MDC Plating ? Is there something in the book I can look to for MDC cost and repair time ? The vehicle in question is the one from Free Quebec (can't remember the name) but it's the one used as a Glitter Boy reloader (the one with the removable canopy and crane arm)

i think it would be realistic for a local repair shop to have MDC plating. however they'd likely not have the right shapes to repair a FQ military craft, so the character would have to do some extra work to make it fit, and the end result might not look pretty. unless the character has a full toolkit and a plasma or laser cutter on hand, it would probably be easier to have the shop do the work though.

So that's my specific example, but how do you other GM's handle this, and just generic situations when you have someone with this kind of skill set who ALWAYS wants to do it himself ? I suppose next time he could be left at home when they go out on a mission if he needs to repair/modify something, but right now they are out in another town. Maybe I should make him drive the vehicle back (since it still runs, it's just damaged) and make him repair it in his own garage, this way it doesn't hold the game up for the other players ? Thoughts ?

don't make him drive it back to his own garage, unless thats the only way he'll be able to do it himself.

your best bet is to have him roleplay out the "preperation" for the repair. using skills to figure out what parts he needs to get [make him a list], tracking down those parts [you might consider having one or two more minor parts be unavailable], and bartering/buying those parts.

once he has all the "stuff" on hand, just have him roll his appropriate repair skills, which covers the actual repairs.

if he doesn't have the right tools for the job, apply modifiers to the skills. if he doesn't have any tools or not the right tools (your call), role play him through finding the shop and arranging the repairs.

toss in some side story events for your other players that can be done at the same time, so they're not left out. (perhaps the shopkeep needs help with a local gang, for example, and would be willing to repair the vehicle for free if the players dealt with the situation..)

dragonfett wrote:@Severus: So your character's armor never gets damaged in any way. Don't forget that it takes the same amount of time to repair your armor per 10 MDC as it will take the tech character, the only variable is who has the more damaged equipment. When the group gets back to civilization, let the non-tech characters go get their equipment repaired/recharged while the tech characters does the same for his at half the cost (I am extrapolating here). I think that sounds fair.

What generally happens (or, more to the point, what I have generally seen) is that the tech character makes the statement "Don't worry about getting your armor fixed guys - I can do that for you". And then everyone sits around and waits while the tech character and the GM spend an hour or two of real time making dice rolls and discussing the aspects of what is happening. Which is totally unfair to the rest of the group who may need to get out and do something related to the current campaign.

So, as I stated, if the tech character wants to spend the time fixing the equipment, let him. But let the other characters do what they need to do as well.

Severus Snape wrote:

dragonfett wrote:@Severus: So your character's armor never gets damaged in any way. Don't forget that it takes the same amount of time to repair your armor per 10 MDC as it will take the tech character, the only variable is who has the more damaged equipment. When the group gets back to civilization, let the non-tech characters go get their equipment repaired/recharged while the tech characters does the same for his at half the cost (I am extrapolating here). I think that sounds fair.

What generally happens (or, more to the point, what I have generally seen) is that the tech character makes the statement "Don't worry about getting your armor fixed guys - I can do that for you". And then everyone sits around and waits while the tech character and the GM spend an hour or two of real time making dice rolls and discussing the aspects of what is happening. Which is totally unfair to the rest of the group who may need to get out and do something related to the current campaign.

So, as I stated, if the tech character wants to spend the time fixing the equipment, let him. But let the other characters do what they need to do as well.

You spend an hour or two of real time making dice rolls to repair armor? Why? Do you make NPC's make that many rolls to repair armor? If supplies are on hand and the character has the skill one roll per suit should more than suffice. And since the other characters aren't like to go adventuring without their armor they won't be missing anything while the tech character saves them some money.

I don't want to punish anyone for playing their character they way they are designed (operator, warrior, mage) but I also don't want people to always have to wait for the other player. I also don't like the idea of always saying, ok the 7 hours it took for you to repair/modify is now done because I find this can unbalance a game. I played in a game before where this happened. One player was a TW and every time he asked to modify something the GM had him make his rolls and say, ok it took you X number of hours and it's done. It started to get so retarded the amount of things he had enhanced because there was no downside (IMO there should be an upside/downside to EVERY character type). The only thing that put a stop to it is when they guy ran out of some key components, but then all he wanted to do was search for more instead of continuing on with the campaign. But never mind I am now rambling.

So like I said they are in a town, but they are in the town to investigate the disappearance of a bunch of town folk, they are not there to see the sights or shop. They have a mission to do, so how do I balance out him repairing his vehicle ? If he decides to fix his vehicle while they hunt down the target, i know the group will argue why should he get his cut of the money ? or if he waits until after to fix it, I will now be holding the rest of the group up for their next assignment (they are kind of bounty hunter/adventurers) if they aren't on the job then they aren't being paid. They are not rich characters and basically survive job to job (kind of like the crew of Serenity is the best example I can think of off the top of my head) they are always on the move and always working. I know there is downtime in games, but people don't always need to be out picking up supplies or repairing their armour and stuff.

I am new to GMing so I am just trying to figure out a good way to balance out game play with out too much handwavium. Like I said I feel if all he has to do is make 3 dice rolls to complete his task that is kind of lame. I know I can have fluff text like your wrench snapped, or you broke some tubing, I guess I'm trying to keep the focus off one character and keep it on all, this way nobody gets bored/feels left out.

I think for this specific case, since the vehicle still runs, I'll allow him to purchase some plating and slap it in place, but if he wants it to blend seamlessly then he will have to wait until he gets back to his full shop to do that. His ship is his mobile shop that he can use to make repairs to objects (And himself since he's a full conversion borg )
thanks for the input/suggestions everyone

So like I said they are in a town, but they are in the town to investigate the disappearance of a bunch of town folk, they are not there to see the sights or shop. They have a mission to do

Is there some kind of time limit on the mission? Something bad will happen in X time (whether the players know X exactly or simply have a notion that time is short before a bad event happens)?

If not, then this is just you going 'gogogogogogo guys!'. And it'd be you causing the problem.

Set a time limit. Decide if the PC's know it exactly or just have a rough estimate. Tell them and leave them to decide what they do.

I agree with most here. Have the player make a few rolls to make sure the work is decent and cost efficient. have time pass a few hours and allow the other plays some down time (goes to the bar, gets supplies, buy some equipment) and that sort of thing. Don't drag it out very long.

Noon wrote:

So like I said they are in a town, but they are in the town to investigate the disappearance of a bunch of town folk, they are not there to see the sights or shop. They have a mission to do

Is there some kind of time limit on the mission? Something bad will happen in X time (whether the players know X exactly or simply have a notion that time is short before a bad event happens)?

If not, then this is just you going 'gogogogogogo guys!'. And it'd be you causing the problem.

Set a time limit. Decide if the PC's know it exactly or just have a rough estimate. Tell them and leave them to decide what they do.

Yes there is a time limit they are aware of, people in the town are being kidnapped at night and the frequency of the occurrences has increased over a period of time. The characters are aware of the time line, e.g. 1 person went missing, 3 months later another, then only two months passed before another, and so on until it's now at the point where pretty much every other night people [sometimes more then one] go missing.

So it's not a issue of me trying to speed up their game play because I am bored or in a hurry to advance my plot. Like I said, their vehicle was damaged on the way to the town, but they traveled to the town for this mission. I understand that the character is a tech character so he's going to want to repair his own ship, it's his "baby" and he does have the robophile skill (i think that's what it's called) the one where he is obbsessed with tech and has vast knowledge of it, think it's from the robot jammer occ, but still he has to give a little and show some common sense, you don't fix your vehicle while people are going missing when you are being paid to find out/stop it.

you don't fix your vehicle while people are going missing when you are being paid to find out/stop it.

Well no, if you were playing a character, that's what your character would do. Your character wouldn't stick around repairing.

The thing is in common literature and movies, were always shown goodie two shoes who are always nice and do the right thing. They even try to edit movies to make Greedo shoot first, even.

Roleplay tends to be less about mary sues. In this way your actually dealing with real characters and getting somewhere serious.

Sometimes the players shoot Greedo in the gut and walk away. Sometimes they just sit and repair their gear while good people die.

Roleplay can be frightening this way.

OR

if your players don't care about that sort of drama stuff, well then your game still doesn't have a dead line. People have already been lost and...the players didn't lose. Put in a count of how many more can go before they lose the contract with their employer - then sitting around might cost them in the end.

But your moral impetus that they can't just sit around while people dissapear - it's a moral impetus. It's not a universal rule nor a 'common sense'. As I said, roleplay reveals frightening things.

Noon wrote:

you don't fix your vehicle while people are going missing when you are being paid to find out/stop it.

Well no, if you were playing a character, that's what your character would do. Your character wouldn't stick around repairing.

The thing is in common literature and movies, were always shown goodie two shoes who are always nice and do the right thing. They even try to edit movies to make Greedo shoot first, even.

Roleplay tends to be less about mary sues. In this way your actually dealing with real characters and getting somewhere serious.

Sometimes the players shoot Greedo in the gut and walk away. Sometimes they just sit and repair their gear while good people die.

Roleplay can be frightening this way.

OR

if your players don't care about that sort of drama stuff, well then your game still doesn't have a dead line. People have already been lost and...the players didn't lose. Put in a count of how many more can go before they lose the contract with their employer - then sitting around might cost them in the end.

But your moral impetus that they can't just sit around while people dissapear - it's a moral impetus. It's not a universal rule nor a 'common sense'. As I said, roleplay reveals frightening things.

You sound like you roleplay with my friend Corey. He played a Med-tech in cyberpunk with a disturbing tendency to booby-trap people who fell unconscious around him. He also had a kill counter in his arm with a higher number than the Solo's.

Noon wrote:But your moral impetus that they can't just sit around while people dissapear - it's a moral impetus. It's not a universal rule nor a 'common sense'. As I said, roleplay reveals frightening things.

Before I even type it I regret bringing up alignment (since it always seems to be a heated topic on here) but I have to disagree with you on that. If you are playing a moral character (which he is) you would not knowingly sit around while people die. If you want the benefits of being the "hero" then unfortunately you have to actually play the hero then. Superman never says, ah screw it I'm too busy eating a steak to save that bus load of orphans. I'm not saying the have to be robots who follow the book to the letter, but generally when players are playing "good" characters, people come first. I'm not saying that people like Han Solo are not considered "good" or heroes, but his alignment is slightly less self serving. Also killing a bounty hunter isn't the same as not saving people, one is self defense, the other is ignoring a cry for help.

As for the part about the players not having lost yet, that's because this is their first day in town and all the other people went missing before they were hired.

If he agreed to alignment in a "Hey GM, you decide what my character would do that fits inside your idea of 'good'", then okay, I get your point. Or if you just wanna yell at him till he accepts that principle, I'll groan but still get your point.

Otherwise your both gunna go through the absurd dance where you both think you know 'what a hero does' and treat your own personal definitions as if they were emperic, universal standards and the other person is clearly not clued in on 'the truth'. Of course, it'll appear only he's doing that.

Another useful solution to this is to have characters play more than one character. I was once in a Gamma World campaign where each player played three characters. If one character got bogged down with some off-screen action like repairing stuff, the GM could handle that character with "OK, it'll take 5 hours to fix the vehicle" and use a die roll or two to figure out how good of a repair job was done at the end of that time. Meanwhile all the players could continue having fun on the main story line by running their other characters with the main body of the party.

The off-screen PC is also a good dumping ground for NPCs the GM doesn't want to have tagging along on the main story. Give them some reason to hang around back with the character fixing the vehicle while the rest of the party goes and does their thing.

Brent