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Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:49 am
by Dunia
Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:30 pm
by Galroth
Dunia wrote:Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
I would go with 30' per level and chalk the 90' up to being an example of a third level Mage where they just forgot to tell you it was a third level Mage.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:24 pm
by JuliusCreed
Galroth wrote:Dunia wrote:Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
I would go with 30' per level and chalk the 90' up to being an example of a third level Mage where they just forgot to tell you it was a third level Mage.
I usually use the 30 per level as the area affected and the 90 as the max casting distance
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:45 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
level 5 edit
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:48 pm
by Prysus
Greetings and Salutations. Hmm ... this is an interesting question. Looking through other books, the spell does have a few differences.
Rifts (original) main book & Book of Magic: Range is listed as 30 feet per level. The note of 90 feet away is included in both.
Rifts Ultimate Edition: Range is listed as 30 feet, +10 feet per level. The note of 90 feet away is included.
PF2 & HU2: Range is listed as 30 feet, +10 feet per level of experience. The 90 feet note is missing!
All editions: Mention the carpet can be 10 feet x 20 feet (and mention again 200 square feet limit), so neither of these numbers should apply to the size of the carpet (as that's a constant in all editions).
Note: I can't find the spell listed in BtS or Nightbane (or Through The Glass Darkly). I don't believe Dead Reign, Splicers, Ninjas & Superspies System Failure, or After the Bomb include magic.
Looking at what we do have available, this is my conclusion:
1: Palladium (originally) writes up Carpet of Adhesion and has a range of 90ft.
2: Sometime after (but before print) they decide to change it to 30 feet per level of experience.
3: Around the time of PF2 they decide 30 feet is too far, and change it to 30 feet +10 feet per level. They also remove the obsolete 90 feet reference.
4: R:BoM copy/pastes the information from the original Rifts book.
5: R:UE comes out, and they decide to correct the range (bringing it in line with PF2/HU2). However, having used the description from R:BoM (or Rifts original), they miss/forget the 90 feet reference.
Have a different conclusion? Feel free to mention it. This is just the best I could come up with from the available information. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:30 pm
by Prysus
Greetings and Salutations. Ah ha! I found another source, and this one I believe explains where the 90 ft. reference comes from.
Palladium Fantasy Revised Edition (which is basically 1st Edition): Carpet of Adhesion (a level 2 spell). Range 90 feet. The mention of being able to cast it up to 90 feet away is also mentioned. The same 10x20 (200 square feet) references are also included.
So looks like I had the idea right, and the 90 feet is just an obsolete term from a previous version of the spell. Hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:27 am
by Dunia
Thank you,
Myself I have started to GM it as if it is 30 feet per level and I max it out at 90ft. So it is a short to medium range spell.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:11 pm
by Cinos
Rhomphaia wrote:Dunia wrote:Thank you,
Myself I have started to GM it as if it is 30 feet per level and I max it out at 90ft. So it is a short to medium range spell.
Something really must be done to balance this spell (especially in a fantasy setting) and capping the range seems to be the ticket.
Removing the "Save or Die" aspect would be the ticket. Capping range is a start though.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:04 pm
by Grell
JuliusCreed wrote:Galroth wrote:Dunia wrote:Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
I would go with 30' per level and chalk the 90' up to being an example of a third level Mage where they just forgot to tell you it was a third level Mage.
I usually use the 30 per level as the area affected and the 90 as the max casting distance
Same here.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:21 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
In the PF2 book the range is only listed as 30'+10' per level. There is no mention of 90'.
Therefore, the it is only in the settings where the "up to 90' away" artifact is included, is there any limit to the range other then the 30'+10"/L.
Another thing might be that in the different settings, the "common magic" subset might be different. Explained through slight variations in the common spells in different settings.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:36 pm
by Cinos
Rhomphaia wrote:That part is actually needed, since the concept of low level offensive magic just seems to be well...offensive...to PB. Mages need more than Fear and Blinding Flash for effective offense.
If you put in 30 spells that suck, and 1 spell that can kill 90% of opponents 90% of the time, your class is still overpowerdly broken. Don't fix a selection of bad spells with a spell that breaks the game. Just fix those other spells.
Also, Cloud of Smoke, Befuddle (losing half your actions sucks HARD, if not autolosing hard), Cloak of Darkness, Armor of Ithan, Paralysis: Lesser, Blind, Fire Blast, Magic Net, Multiple Image, Shadow Meld are all great combat spells with equal or less level. Mages DO need a few effective damage spells in those levels. Like, why does Energy bolt exist in Rifts? 6D6 SD from a spell? Really? Ge-Thanks for the high powered Pistol that takes twice as long to use.
Re-reading it, it claims it can be cast on a person too (Carpet that is), would be funny to do that with a body block or disarm.
But as tot he actual question; I'm fairly sure the 90 Feet is a hold over from Copy + Pasting from a very old version of the spell with a fixed range, I would trust the 30 Feet per Level listed in Book of Magic for Rifts. I don't have a PF core book here, so I can't reference if it's less as drewkitty posted, but just go with it if it is.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:03 pm
by Prysus
Greetings and Salutations. For those who are still wondering about the 90ft reference, scroll up and read my two previous posts. I actually mention the differences in setting and posts, and you can see where the 90ft mention comes from. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:48 am
by drewkitty ~..~
Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. For those who are still wondering about the 90 ft reference, scroll up and read my two previous posts. I actually mention the differences in setting and posts, and you can see where the 90 ft mention comes from. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Don't you just love it when PB decides to Copy and Paste w/o researching what they did before fully, to take out the trash text.*sarcasm*
Yes, N&S, ATB2, Splicers, SF, TMNT, and the new RT books have no magic.
MC does have magic but it is "chi" magic; not the 'western' magic use as PB's "common magic".
Two more of PB's old "spells per day" magic system...
The CoA in HU1r is 30'/L, up to 90 away limit.
RT:II the sentinels doesn't have CoA listed as one of the spells available the Perytonian Warrior Wizard (the only magic in the old RT books).
I would say that not to be a AH that the char can have ether the 30'/L, with the up to 90' limit. Or have no limit and use the 30'+10'/L. But they would have to choose which one when they get the spell. This is based on that both are canon listings.
Or you base what is available by which setting you are GMing.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:49 am
by The Beast
JuliusCreed wrote:Galroth wrote:Dunia wrote:Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
I would go with 30' per level and chalk the 90' up to being an example of a third level Mage where they just forgot to tell you it was a third level Mage.
I usually use the 30 per level as the area affected and the 90 as the max casting distance
Except it lists the area of effect as 10 ft wide, by 20 ft long.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:30 am
by Galroth
The Beast wrote:JuliusCreed wrote:Galroth wrote:Dunia wrote:Book of Magic page 99 wrote:It says in the description of the spell Carpet of Adhession that the rangeof the spell is 30 feet per level. Still at the end of the description of the spell it says that ''The spellcatster can create this spell up to 90 feet away''
So, what the frak is the correct range: 30 feet per level or fixed at 90 feet? Or is it 30 feet per level but maxed out at 90 feet?
bah
I would go with 30' per level and chalk the 90' up to being an example of a third level Mage where they just forgot to tell you it was a third level Mage.
I usually use the 30 per level as the area affected and the 90 as the max casting distance
Except it lists the area of effect as 10 ft wide, by 20 ft long.
And if you go 30' per level of area and have a 90' max cast distance it isn't long before the caster envelopes himself in the carpet.
Re: Clarification wanted: Lvl 4 Inc. Spell: Carpet of Adhesion
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:28 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
The Beast wrote:
Except it lists the area of effect as 10 ft wide, by 20 ft long.
And it is listed as 200 square feet, in other places.
I for one, take that 10'x20' as what an unimaginative mage would cast it as. The shape is only limited by the imagination of the caster (ergo the Player). One of my chars has cast CoA in a checkerboard pattern. Effectively doubling the effect area with out going over the 200 sq. ft limit.