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Would you like to see a Dragon Sourcebook?

Like this: 64-96 pages

With a listing of all old Dragon Races along with a few new ones...

Stats for each Dragon from: Hatchlings to Ancient...

Old Dragon magic (Dragons and Gods) with New Dragon only spells...

More on Dragonwright, Dragon Hunters, Dragon Followers/Guardians...

Weapons made by Dragons, Items made out of Dragons, and Equipment created for Dragons...

To be honest. Not really. Rifts has never been a huge "DRAGON" Game for me. Sure they're there. they're one of 1000 possibilitys. But.. not a huge deal. Palladium's dragons never really jumped out and grabbed me too much.

I'm glad they're a part of the game. But I don't need a specific book reprinting that stuff. And that's mostly what it would be. Alot of Cut and paste and paste and paste with just minor details changed.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:To be honest. Not really. Rifts has never been a huge "DRAGON" Game for me. Sure they're there. they're one of 1000 possibilitys. But.. not a huge deal. Palladium's dragons never really jumped out and grabbed me too much.

I'm glad they're a part of the game. But I don't need a specific book reprinting that stuff. And that's mostly what it would be. Alot of Cut and paste and paste and paste with just minor details changed.

i suppose this is true somewhat, but i voted yes.
i dont think theres 80 pages of material on dragons at this point, so ya a lot of cut and paste, but expand that **** man!
and a one spot reference for adult/hatchling on all dragon types would always be useful, albeit only if you actualy use dragons in your campaign.
id like to see more on habitats, culture, treasure hoards, dragon specific magic, that kind of thing.

isn't there a dragons and gods book that basically covers this?

I said yes. The reason being that dragons are one of the very few Archaic races still alive .. Their should be special rules governing their species of fighting styles. Among other things ..

I'm game for a sourcebook if it's got more than fifty percent new material in it.
I've always been on the watch for new fan material on dragons because...well, dragon is another word for 'cool' in my dictionary.

Already have a dragons sourcebook with the dragons and gods book. The only dragons that are not in it are the ones found in RUE and ones that fans have made up.

Astral Pantheon wrote:snip..
Dragon Hunters, Dragon Followers/Guardians...

Weapons made by Dragons, Items made out of Dragons, and Equipment created for Dragons...

These are the only things you talked about that would be NEW.

zedjagder wrote:That's why I voted no. I don't need another book that is mostly a reprint fo old material with a few new twists added in. And, we all know that; that is basically what it would be.

Seconded for the most part. I might wan to see a book like this much later down the line. Now too much other books that we need imo.

Shark_Force wrote:isn't there a dragons and gods book that basically covers this?

For PFRPG yes. Palladium was supposed to have been making a version for Rifts and that was why they left dragons out of the newer Conversion Book.

Dragons and Gods

Covers some of what I'm "talking" about but I want more in depth into Dragons...

I know in Palladium there is an Undead Dragon. Maybe, more into different paths Dragons can take into the search for power...

I like having stats from Hatchling to Adult to Elder to Ancient... A example is the difference in power from an adult to elder dragon (that can shadow self )....

I'm a Big supporter of a Dragon only Magic (Higher PPE with amazing effects)...

Ley Line/Cold Dragons (China type) that need constant PPE energy, Elemental Dragon and similiar types...

The Beast wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:isn't there a dragons and gods book that basically covers this?

For PFRPG yes. Palladium was supposed to have been making a version for Rifts and that was why they left dragons out of the newer Conversion Book.

And the game from PFRPG .. to Rifts is soo different its NUTS ..

Even tho Palladium falsly claims a megaversal system .. it is not .. dif rules govern both settings .. hell even the magic system is not the same in both settings .

I say make a Dragon's sourcebook for Rifts..

Lenwen wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:isn't there a dragons and gods book that basically covers this?

For PFRPG yes. Palladium was supposed to have been making a version for Rifts and that was why they left dragons out of the newer Conversion Book.

And the game from PFRPG .. to Rifts is soo different its NUTS ..

Even tho Palladium falsly claims a megaversal system .. it is not .. dif rules govern both settings .. hell even the magic system is not the same in both settings .

I say make a Dragon's sourcebook for Rifts..

The Dragons and Gods book contain the MDC's of the dragons in MDC worlds.

Magic not the same? LMAO the only thing different between the canon for PF and RUE is the spell casting times. Even those are not different because most GM's recognize that those spell casting times are the only good rules change in RUE and have incorporated them into their games.

So what you guys seam to be doing is B!†çh¡n about any inconsequential differences to justify your B!†çh¡n about not having a whole new Not Needed, Taking up the Schedule from Books for the Good settings, rubbish Rifts book.

If you don't like it that there is no Dragons book for the setting you are playing then play the setting that has a dragons book.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Magic not the same? LMAO the only thing different between the canon for PF and RUE is the spell casting times.

Actually there are several spells that convert differently than just swapping SDC for MDC.

The Beast wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Magic not the same? LMAO the only thing different between the canon for PF and RUE is the spell casting times.

Actually there are several spells that convert differently than just swapping SDC for MDC.

And if you have books from both the settings you can notice this, you can be smart enough to actually write both set of spell effects in your spell notes on the char sheet.

Or

You can treat them as two spells with the same name.

Those are two options that people can do.
However, these are not valid arguments about Needing a Whole (partly) New book that that time would be better spent on other books. For instance Mysteries of Magic 2 & 3, the RT2 Marines and ships books, the BTS2 magic book and the BTS2 Monsters book. Things that have been put off because all the rubbish rifts books choking up the schedule.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

The Beast wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Magic not the same? LMAO the only thing different between the canon for PF and RUE is the spell casting times.

Actually there are several spells that convert differently than just swapping SDC for MDC.

And if you have books from both the settings you can notice this, you can be smart enough to actually write both set of spell effects in your spell notes on the char sheet.

Or

You can treat them as two spells with the same name.

Those are two options that people can do.
However, these are not valid arguments about Needing a Whole (partly) New book that that time would be better spent on other books. For instance Mysteries of Magic 2 & 3, the RT2 Marines and ships books, the BTS2 magic book and the BTS2 Monsters book. Things that have been put off because all the rubbish rifts books choking up the schedule.

drewkitty ~..~, I still would like to see a Dragon Sourcebook but understand your points.... I really would love to see the BTS2 Monsters book. Would it change your mind, if a fan, did the work for free and Palladium released the Dragon Sourcebook as an experimental ebook (for $4.99 or so)??

Astral Pantheon wrote:drewkitty ~..~, I still would like to see a Dragon Sourcebook but understand your points.... I really would love to see the BTS2 Monsters book. Would it change your mind, if a fan, did the work for free and Palladium released the Dragon Sourcebook as an experimental ebook (for $4.99 or so)??

here's a better idea, imo (though i'm not drewkitty): make a rifter article out of the few things that actually *are* new that you suggested, and submit that to the rifter.

it's not that i'm opposed to a dragons book, so much as it is that the proposed book is basically all reprints except for perhaps enough material to make 1-2 rifter articles. and probably not particularly large rifter articles, either.

there simply isn't enough new material to be worth making a new book, and there honestly aren't nearly enough different sources to justify making a reprints book to consolidate.

Shark_Force wrote:

Astral Pantheon wrote:drewkitty ~..~, I still would like to see a Dragon Sourcebook but understand your points.... I really would love to see the BTS2 Monsters book. Would it change your mind, if a fan, did the work for free and Palladium released the Dragon Sourcebook as an experimental ebook (for $4.99 or so)??

here's a better idea, imo (though i'm not drewkitty): make a rifter article out of the few things that actually *are* new that you suggested, and submit that to the rifter.

it's not that i'm opposed to a dragons book, so much as it is that the proposed book is basically all reprints except for perhaps enough material to make 1-2 rifter articles. and probably not particularly large rifter articles, either.

there simply isn't enough new material to be worth making a new book, and there honestly aren't nearly enough different sources to justify making a reprints book to consolidate.

The only thing about Rifter is its optional and not Canon...
unfortunely I know many that want Canon and won't play anyway else
but I do understand your points. One of my old friends was talking about his dragon character today thats why I posted. I, myself, want to focus an artilces (that I would write) on Wormwood... My favorite Dimension

Some things in Rifter are Canon. They get special designation when they are.

I said yes.

While I already have PF Dragons and Gods (which has MDC stats), I think there should be a RIFTS Dragons and Gods book that shows how these beings fit in the world of Rifts. The book should cover Rifts specific topics, like how Rifts specific magic is rolled into dragon society, the impact of Techno-wizardry, why on Rifts there is the exception to the rule of dragon solidarity, and so on. Like the PF fantasy version that has MDC conversions, the Rifts version should have SDC/HP stats for when these beings go into an SDC world. The PF version is good to have for the Rifts player, but it would be nice to have one that deals in credits instead of gold, or laser rifles instead of swords, and so on.

Id include dragon races from the classic PF world (Great horned, fire...), the new RUE dragons (Cats eye and so on), as well as Rifts specific dragons (crystal dragon and so on) from the various world books. This would be a good opportunity for even more newer ones as well. The book should cover hatchling, adult, and ancient versions of all the dragons in the book.

I vote no. Between the Dragons and Gods book, the original CB1, RUE, and the RMB, I am content with the way dragons are covered.

Shark_Force wrote:isn't there a dragons and gods book that basically covers this?

Pretty much. The hard part would be providing more (useful) information than Dragons & Gods. Which covers a wide range of species and their habits. Though while they do have MD stat listings, if I recall correctly, they don't have Rifts skill lists like the hatchlings in RMB and RUE. On the other hand, considering that they are magically born with knowledge a hatchling starts with, I wonder what affects that magical know how. There's an area not covered.
But, overall, a lot of information is already out there, mostly in Dragons & Gods. We don't need much more in the way of species and stats in general. NPC stats seem to get appreciated though, and with the RMB out of print, some of the classic dragons aren't immediately available (Great Horned FTW). There is the status of what remnants of Freehold remain, while mention of dragons bitter over the loss of Tolkeen are many, mention of the loss of Freehold, or desire to begin that city anew, are strangely absent.
Almost as if the real force holding them together lost it's hold, or it's nerve..

On that note, what could really use some fleshing out is the world of Troud.
If you aren't familiar with it, grab your Rifts Game Master Guide, flip to page 331, read entry #99, and then defecate masonry blocks.

I voted yes because I would write the hell out of that book.

Armorlord wrote:snip... if I recall correctly, they don't have Rifts skill lists like the hatchlings in RMB and RUE. On the other hand, considering that they are magically born with knowledge a hatchling starts with, I wonder what affects that magical know how.

All "just out of the shell" dragon hatchlings know ho to "speak read and write Dragonese" and "basic math", and the "principles of magic". There is no difference between RUE, RMB, and D&G in this.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The Dragons and Gods book contain the MDC's of the dragons in MDC worlds.

Magic not the same? LMAO the only thing different between the canon for PF and RUE is the spell casting times. Even those are not different because most GM's recognize that those spell casting times are the only good rules change in RUE and have incorporated them into their games.

Ergo .. the magic system is not the same .. You have just proven my point.

We won't even talk about the differences of Ley Line's an Nexus points .. on magic in both settings .. as its literally a joke ..

Lenwen wrote: snip...
We won't even talk about the differences of Ley Line's an Nexus points .. on magic in both settings .. as its literally a joke ..

And this differences between the PPE you get from LL on different worlds has WHAT to do with the topic?

While, yes, this is something that shows that different world have different level of PPE. Which is a part of the megavercial canon.

But still again, Why is this significant enough to bring up in a topic about trying to get another useless rifts book?

Then there are those of you that say the "RUE Is Megavercial Canon!" To those there is no difference because they think RUE is the beginning and end of ALL Canon. So your point is moot to the "RUE is the only Canon" crowd.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Lenwen wrote: snip...
We won't even talk about the differences of Ley Line's an Nexus points .. on magic in both settings .. as its literally a joke ..

And this differences between the PPE you get from LL on different worlds has WHAT to do with the topic?

It is not the dif amount of PPE from world to world I am talking about .

Its the dif ways Ley Lines an Nexus points effect magic .. from world to world .. dimension to dimension ..

Ergo my above post ..

Lenwen wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Lenwen wrote: snip...
We won't even talk about the differences of Ley Line's an Nexus points .. on magic in both settings .. as its literally a joke ..

And this differences between the PPE you get from LL on different worlds has WHAT to do with the topic?

It is not the dif amount of PPE from world to world I am talking about .

Its the dif ways Ley Lines an Nexus points effect magic .. from world to world .. dimension to dimension ..

Ergo my above post ..

Thank you, you just made my point. It is not a difference in the magic system, it is a difference in the World.

I'd pay $5 for an ebook like this.

Not $18 or $25 for a full size +8 to 10 shipping.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:snip... if I recall correctly, they don't have Rifts skill lists like the hatchlings in RMB and RUE. On the other hand, considering that they are magically born with knowledge a hatchling starts with, I wonder what affects that magical know how.

All "just out of the shell" dragon hatchlings know ho to "speak read and write Dragonese" and "basic math", and the "principles of magic". There is no difference between RUE, RMB, and D&G in this.

So Armorlord, you miss remembered things.

Plus, upon double checking, their entire first level skill selections. Dragonese and Basic Math being the only ones known 98%, the rest at first level proficiency. So it seems I am not misremembering.

yes only because I want some retcon of the basklisk
those guys don't get enough love
common they are the same size as some dragons and get a tenth the mdc
screwed up life span how else get 600 years because they tend to get killed but they could live to 2000
get the guys a break
I also want a hydra NPC ridden up a Asgardian dwarf as the cover art

Armorlord wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:snip... if I recall correctly, they don't have Rifts skill lists like the hatchlings in RMB and RUE. On the other hand, considering that they are magically born with knowledge a hatchling starts with, I wonder what affects that magical know how.

All "just out of the shell" dragon hatchlings know ho to "speak read and write Dragonese" and "basic math", and the "principles of magic". There is no difference between RUE, RMB, and D&G in this.

So Armorlord, you miss remembered things.

Plus, upon double checking, their entire first level skill selections. Dragonese and Basic Math being the only ones known 98%, the rest at first level proficiency. So it seems I am not misremembering.

My apologies, I misread your post.

csbioborg wrote:yes only because I want some retcon of the basklisk
those guys don't get enough love
common they are the same size as some dragons and get a tenth the mdc
screwed up life span how else get 600 years because they tend to get killed but they could live to 2000
get the guys a break
I also want a hydra NPC ridden up a Asgardian dwarf as the cover art

I thing the basklisk should get alot more respect but thats a whole different story. Basklisk

Yes...