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Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:39 pm
by Robotech_Elder
As per the title
I only ask because of the Mad Golem in PF is a level 10 warlock on all 4 elements. So I assume despite the o.c.c. description a PC can elect to have all 4 elements. Comments?
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:47 pm
by Anthar
That is most likely a rule bending NPC as I believe that warlocks can't take the opposite element (not 100% sure as I'm just recalling by memory). The only possiblility that I can think of is a Godling RCC using his Godling power selection to choose warlock magic twice to get all four elements.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:11 pm
by Damian Magecraft
Anthar wrote:That is most likely a rule bending NPC as I believe that warlocks can't take the opposite element (not 100% sure as I'm just recalling by memory). The only possiblility that I can think of is a Godling RCC using his Godling power selection to choose warlock magic twice to get all four elements.
nothing in the rules forbid a warlock from selecting "opposing" elements.
I believe the mad golem is a rules exception on the 4 elements however.
There are rules for selecting two elements (requiring higher stats).
so in Theory one could i suppose allow it if the stats were high enough. (although this would require some rather massive scores if the requirement progression follows logically).
alternatively; another way to achieve the 4 elements is to take the warlock class a second time (assuming you qualify for the 2 element variant) as per the rules presented in Adventures on the high seas.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:27 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Anthar wrote:That is most likely a rule bending NPC as I believe that warlocks can't take the opposite element (not 100% sure as I'm just recalling by memory). The only possibility that I can think of is a Godling RCC using his Godling power selection to choose warlock magic twice to get all four elements.
Rule bending NPC.
Warlocks can only have, per canon, 2 elements at their command.
As to the changing class suggestion, "Warlocks are born not made." Or to say, it is the elementals choosing the char, not the other way around.
Another thing you might throw into the mix, to make it more insane rule bending NPC, would be to include the elemental fusionist powers also.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:11 am
by Prince Artemis
slight correction drewkitty, warlocks are not born warlocks. They actually beseech the elements for power and if they're lucky enough they're given it. They're not Cosmo-knights where the elementals pick people at random to give all this power to. Which means that, technically speaking, the class could be chosen twice if the character in question asked all four elements for their power and did honor each of their elements to the degree required.
That being said, this guy must have very little free time to himself as he must spend half his day just honoring the elements...
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:32 pm
by Cinos
I'm a yes and a no on this. A single class of warlock can only be 2 Elements in my games, but a character can elect to multi-class as a Warlock and then a Warlock again, selecting the missed elements that way. This does drastically change the way their abilities advance and prohibits the use of some of the higher level powers that is the balancing act.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:04 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Prince Artemis wrote:slight correction drewkitty, warlocks are not born warlocks. They actually beseech the elements for power and if they're lucky enough they're given it. They're not Cosmo-knights where the elementals pick people at random to give all this power to. Which means that, technically speaking, the class could be chosen twice if the character in question asked all four elements for their power and did honor each of their elements to the degree required.
That being said, this guy must have very little free time to himself as he must spend half his day just honoring the elements...
RCB1, page 59, 2nd par. wrote:And as for philosophy, they believe that either one is born a warlock or not.
I would say that s a good indicator that warlocks are born and not made.
The RCB1r has the same text dropping the "and".
Both also mention them NOT being spiritualists. And not binding themselves to any man or god.
They are also put into the group of magic users that do not learn their magic, it is given to them.
In conclusion, if warlocks do have a choice in the matter it is, at most, which element they choose, not a choosing to be a warlock. Therefor, a Warlock could be considered a PCC due to it is their nature that chooses their class, not any training.
(sidenote: My PF2 MB is hiding from me at the moment so had to use the RCB1,RCB1r,and MM1 for references.)
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One of the great mysteries these batteries of natural energy is the fact that elemental fusionists always combine within then two conflicting forces of nature- Fire and Water or Earth and Air.
While this may be the first specific stating of the opposing el. forces in PB, it does follow the cultural stipulated understanding of the western knowledge about the "elemental forces".
Therefor, if the warlock NPC has any opposing el. forces on his call he is a El. fusionist. Otherwise they can only call on, at most, two non-conflicting el. forces.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:42 pm
by Damian Magecraft
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Prince Artemis wrote:slight correction drewkitty, warlocks are not born warlocks. They actually beseech the elements for power and if they're lucky enough they're given it. They're not Cosmo-knights where the elementals pick people at random to give all this power to. Which means that, technically speaking, the class could be chosen twice if the character in question asked all four elements for their power and did honor each of their elements to the degree required.
That being said, this guy must have very little free time to himself as he must spend half his day just honoring the elements...
RCB1, page 59, 2nd par. wrote:And as for philosophy, they believe that either one is born a warlock or not.
I would say that s a good indicator that warlocks are born and not made.
The RCB1r has the same text dropping the "and".
Both also mention them NOT being spiritualists. And not binding themselves to any man or god.
They are also put into the group of magic users that do not learn their magic, it is given to them.
In conclusion, if warlocks do have a choice in the matter it is, at most, which element they choose, not a choosing to be a warlock. Therefor, a Warlock could be considered a PCC due to it is their nature that chooses their class, not any training.
(sidenote: My PF2 MB is hiding from me at the moment so had to use the RCB1,RCB1r,and MM1 for references.)
--------------------------
One of the great mysteries these batteries of natural energy is the fact that elemental fusionists always combine within then two conflicting forces of nature- Fire and Water or Earth and Air.
While this may be the first specific stating of the opposing el. forces in PB, it does follow the cultural stipulated understanding of the western knowledge about the "elemental forces".
Therefor, if the warlock NPC has any opposing el. forces on his call he is a El. fusionist. Otherwise they can only call on, at most, two non-conflicting el. forces.
that's pure speculation and unfounded by the text and therefore a House rule...
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:16 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
here is the problem, the writers are basing the "elemental" magic in the western 'magic' and the writer did not specifically write in the opposing el. forces into the game book text. But because of where the concepts are based, there are those opposing el. forces, because they are stipulated in the ideas.
Sort of how the definition of marriage between a man and a woman is the stipulated definition of marriage when the US and state constitutions were being written. The definition was not written into law as an explicit definition of marriage. But until a few years ago people would laugh in you face if you suggested that two people of the same sex could be married, because everyone knew what the definition of marriage was. And that is is between a man and a woman.
Damian Magecraft wrote:drewkitty ~..~ wrote:One of the great mysteries these batteries of natural energy is the fact that elemental fusionists always combine within then two conflicting forces of nature- Fire and Water or Earth and Air.
While this may be the first specific stating of the opposing el. forces in PB, it does follow the cultural stipulated understanding of the western knowledge about the "elemental forces".
Therefor, if the warlock NPC has any opposing el. forces on his call he is a El. fusionist. Otherwise they can only call on, at most, two non-conflicting el. forces.
that's pure speculation and unfounded by the text and therefore a House rule...
Now if you look at what I said as a whole you notice that I am including knowledge outside the game books and showing you where it is supported by a game book. Then gave you a conclusion based on what I presented.
While what I concluded is not in one of the game books, far as I know, it is supported but what is stipulated by the text from it using the western ideas about el. magic.
Re: Warlock (All 4 Elements)
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:18 pm
by tmikesecrist3
Hear is a thought I have. I really don't see why an elemental can not have all 4 elements. But then I have never found a druid I am completely happy with. Rifts england comes close.... but the Pf druid seems a good basic shammen class. Maybe an early druid or some neo-pagans.. so I often wondered the be best easiest sulition would be a refits druid with more ppe and elemental mastery. I have used the Arcanest form bts-1 and used skill selctions to build a druid based on my understanding that also comes close but often lacks the herbalagy....
I think maybe becouse I trying to come up with something closer to the lore as I am something of a Celtic scholler and a practicing druid