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Have a Techno-Wizard, he's trying to build something, they asked me if they could use beat insurmountable odds to pretty much have the brilliant idea and understand it and how to put it together effectively, effectively weeding out years of researching and dicking around, the character has a ridiculous IQ to begin with so what they are wanting to do I could easily see them actually accomplishing it, they have plenty of time, but this is more to reduce the time, like... falling down and hitting your head on a toilet(Like Doc did in back to the future), a brilliant idea just comes to them.

However the spell doesn't go into more detail for say, skills. Like what about "I wanted to disarm a bomb, there is a 1 in 1000 chance it will explode." roll against your demolition skill, add XX% or just bump it up to 95% so it's pretty much impossible to fail, but there is still the chance to fail. I don't know if I should allow this or not, though to be honest I sort of do just so I can continue quicker along the campaign.

Add a random chance of developing an insanity that goes up and gets worse every time a character uses the device. They can side step the problem a few times by passing it around, but then there are consequences for using their miracle machine. Start with mild eccentricities and phobias, but after a few uses they ought to be flirting with multiple personalities, homicidal psychosis, or full blown megalomania.

Bill wrote:Add a random chance of developing an insanity that goes up and gets worse every time a character uses the device. They can side step the problem a few times by passing it around, but then there are consequences for using their miracle machine. Start with mild eccentricities and phobias, but after a few uses they ought to be flirting with multiple personalities, homicidal psychosis, or full blown megalomania.

Well, no, that's not exactly what I meant, the spell is the means to come up with the idea so he could actually build it because it's going to do something that isn't in rifts, least no book, so no referencing. They are just wanting it for step 1, not build a machine that someone can hop in to have an idea, though... that to be honest, that would be an interesting TW device. Worn on the head, looks like this.

This is epic.

Just say it works how you think it does. Something this abstract will be next to impossible to pin down in the rules.

I would rule though that it requires some study of M.O.M technologies before hand and would have a chance of driving you mad the more you use it.

That is what I did when the NPC in my game invented something just like this anyway.

Hmm, your idea sounds very cool and I think that great fun could be had that way at your table, General_Failure.

However, having re-read the spell (for the benfit of anyone who may want to check up on the spell: page 126 Rifts Book of Magic) the language of the spell strongly suggests to me that it is meant only for influencing certain checks (it is for example expressly quite restricted in combat) and that it is definitely NOT meant to give ideas and such. Beat Unsurmountable Odds warps chance and probability, it does not surplant creativity and I do not think the spell should be used for that.

Having said that, if you used the spell in the -cool- way you depicted, Beat Unsurmountable Odds will have two consequences, I think. (1) At 1:1,000,000 odds you have to roll 15 or more on a Roll to Strike for the spell to twist reality in your favour and make you succeed. (2) If you do not make that roll, appropriate (dire) consequences will kick in.

For an invention ... I see all sorts of really, really outlandishly awesomely cool and bad effects seriously kick the shortcutters behind. A lab explosion would be the ve/ry, very least. I see huge craters, poisonous clouds being let loose on a city, and a scientist shooting "darn, I was so close" from the bottom of the crater garbed in a torn and smoking lab coat ...

Cheers
Hendrik

Hendrik wrote:Hmm, your idea sounds very cool and I think that great fun could be had that way at your table, General_Failure.

However, having re-read the spell (for the benfit of anyone who may want to check up on the spell: page 126 Rifts Book of Magic) the language of the spell strongly suggests to me that it is meant only for influencing certain checks (it is for example expressly quite restricted in combat) and that it is definitely NOT meant to give ideas and such. Beat Unsurmountable Odds warps chance and probability, it does not surplant creativity and I do not think the spell should be used for that.

Having said that, if you used the spell in the -cool- way you depicted, Beat Unsurmountable Odds will have two consequences, I think. (1) At 1:1,000,000 odds you have to roll 15 or more on a Roll to Strike for the spell to twist reality in your favour and make you succeed. (2) If you do not make that roll, appropriate (dire) consequences will kick in.

For an invention ... I see all sorts of really, really outlandishly awesomely cool and bad effects seriously kick the shortcutters behind. A lab explosion would be the ve/ry, very least. I see huge craters, poisonous clouds being let loose on a city, and a scientist shooting "darn, I was so close" from the bottom of the crater garbed in a torn and smoking lab coat ...

Cheers
Hendrik

Yeah, see that was my whole problem with it, I knew it was pretty much for combat in the description, but I GENERALLY look at everything in the books as "Everything can always can be expanded, kevin and the team cannot put every method of usage or be expected to come up with every single scenario of use into the descriptions or what is the point of roleplaying?", like hydrokinesis for instance, never have my group ever used it like what it says in the books, it IS control of water, same as a burster, same as a zapper, etc, have it, do it, use same things from the others, substitute for water, make up the crap as you go for isp use that seems logical, just as an example. But when it comes to spells, they "typically" are good enough, but when it comes to spells and techno-wizardry, ANYTHING is freaking possible, which is why I'm torn between allowing this. I think I will force them to first make the "Thinking cap" TW item adorned with very costly jewels(like the ones the noro use for almost all of their psi-tech which means it's rifting time!) and a combination of clairvoyance AND the oracle spell(which I already know they don't have and will have to seek out someone to learn it) in addition to the beat insurmountable odds(They already have this, they found it in some rubble, but never used it, only learned it and stuffed it in their spell laptop, after all he's a techno-wizard, why the hell would he have a spellBOOK? that's lunacy.), and after he has dragged the rest of the group through the mud a few times finding these things and putting it together, let the dice rule their fates.

General_Failure wrote:... I GENERALLY look at everything in the books as "Everything can always can be expanded, kevin and the team cannot put every method of usage or be expected to come up with every single scenario of use into the descriptions or what is the point of roleplaying?" ...

I agree that no roleplaying designer can (or should or need to) think of everything. I also agree that the GM (or if he is so inclined him and his party) can and should discard and add as they go and after what makes their boat float. Regarding the point of roleplaying, well, I agree and disagree personally. I tend to (try to) play by the book as much as I "can". Here the spell description as such IMO does not leave (much wiggle) room for your application of it, but that is not saying you should not amend it, on the contrary. However, I just wanted to say that I think that the ability to amend rules is important but IMVHO hardly the point of roleplaying.

General_Failure wrote:... make up the crap as you go for isp use that seems logical, ...

Yup. Though I find that most things I need are, surprisingly, in the rules already.

General_Failure wrote:... But when it comes to spells, they "typically" are good enough, but when it comes to spells and techno-wizardry, ANYTHING is freaking possible, which is why I'm torn between allowing this. ...

I hear you. As wonderful as techno wizardry is, I find it quite difficult because with that kind of magic work arounds can easily be created.

General_Failure wrote:... I think I will force them to first make the "Thinking cap" TW item adorned with very costly jewels(like the ones the noro use for almost all of their psi-tech which means it's rifting time!) and a combination of clairvoyance AND the oracle spell(which I already know they don't have and will have to seek out someone to learn it) in addition to the beat insurmountable odds(They already have this, they found it in some rubble, but never used it, only learned it and stuffed it in their spell laptop, after all he's a techno-wizard, why the hell would he have a spellBOOK? that's lunacy.), and after he has dragged the rest of the group through the mud a few times finding these things and putting it together, let the dice rule their fates.

I like that - a quest!

General_Failure wrote:... spell laptop, after all he's a techno-wizard, why the hell would he have a spellBOOK? that's lunacy....

Cheers
Hendrik