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One of the things that has kept me from using Macross/Robotech hardware in Rifts or the extended Megaverse was the fuel situation. Originally all Robotech hardware ran on Protoculture, but in the recently released books, in their handy small size, has changed the game. Veritech and Southern Cross hardware runs on Stable Liquid Metal Hydrogen, which can be produced anywhere in the Megaverse and in any tech savvy cities on Rifts Earth. This has allowed me, as a GM, to incorporate them into campaigns.

For one, I've been asked if I could find a way to bring Southern Cross hardware to the Colorado Baronies, which I am doing, I'm writting out how the players make the transfer. I've also decided to take a swing at Phase World and the Three Galaxies as well.

Has anyone else thought about this?

Right now, I'm working out a Robotech Merc Company, but have had to make some modifications to the Shadow Chronicles mecha to make it fit a bit better(Converting mecha from Protoculture to Fusion Reactors). I have some of the older books to draw other hardware from. Nothing concrete yet for the Phase world Merc Company, other than the name, Strike Fairies, an all female Merc Company.

what makes you assume SLMH can be found so commonly across the megaverse? it's only mentioned in the robotech books.
phase world uses anti-matter, rifts (going by mentions in the books) is predominantly fission powered using radioactive isotopes, and HU/BTS/N&SS/etc use things like gasoline/jetfuel/etc.

SLMH would require very specialized manufacturing centers to make, and no other palladium setting so far uses the stuff, meaning that it is extremely unlikely that they'd have any availalbe, even if they had the theoretical knowledge of how to make it.

on the otherhand, adapting Macross and masters era mecha to rifts style nuclear plants would probably be easier to do now, and phase world antimatter power would certainly be able to be refitted into mecha from any of the era's.. as well as the starships.

glitterboy2098 wrote:what makes you assume SLMH can be found so commonly across the megaverse? it's only mentioned in the robotech books.
phase world uses anti-matter, rifts (going by mentions in the books) is predominantly fission powered using radioactive isotopes, and HU/BTS/N&SS/etc use things like gasoline/jetfuel/etc.

SLMH would require very specialized manufacturing centers to make, and no other palladium setting so far uses the stuff, meaning that it is extremely unlikely that they'd have any availalbe, even if they had the theoretical knowledge of how to make it.

on the otherhand, adapting Macross and masters era mecha to rifts style nuclear plants would probably be easier to do now, and phase world antimatter power would certainly be able to be refitted into mecha from any of the era's.. as well as the starships.

Good point, conversion to exisiting powerplants would be easier and wouldn't affect any functions.

curb wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:what makes you assume SLMH can be found so commonly across the megaverse? it's only mentioned in the robotech books.
phase world uses anti-matter, rifts (going by mentions in the books) is predominantly fission powered using radioactive isotopes, and HU/BTS/N&SS/etc use things like gasoline/jetfuel/etc.

SLMH would require very specialized manufacturing centers to make, and no other palladium setting so far uses the stuff, meaning that it is extremely unlikely that they'd have any availalbe, even if they had the theoretical knowledge of how to make it.

on the otherhand, adapting Macross and masters era mecha to rifts style nuclear plants would probably be easier to do now, and phase world antimatter power would certainly be able to be refitted into mecha from any of the era's.. as well as the starships.

Good point, conversion to exisiting powerplants would be easier and wouldn't affect any functions.

in Rifts, converting a fusion powered veritech to local produced nuclear power and thermal turbojets would remove your ability to operate in space and limit your flight duration due to heat buildup (you'd have flight performance, IMO, comparable to a CS fighter..), but destroids should convert fairly easily, and with no real loss of capability. though i'd expect their missiles could be shifted one size larger.. a 1st war robotech earth SRM, as shown by OSM artwork, seems to be about the same size as a RIFTS MRM. ASC era and later seems to be of comparable size to rifts stuff..

Or you could just ignore the fuel issue and use everything as is. After all its only an issue in your game the one time you run a game where it is.

Its not like anyone who matters is going to cry bloody outrage.

Akashic Soldier wrote:Or you could just ignore the fuel issue and use everything as is. After all its only an issue in your game the one time you run a game where it is.

Its not like anyone who matters is going to cry bloody outrage.

Yeah we ignored the fuel issue and just let the hardware come in.

SpiritInterface wrote:Yeah we ignored the fuel issue and just let the hardware come in.

Did the Megaverse implode?

ignoring the issue definately can work, but some of us like to add more detail to our games. extra detail can lead to interesting roleplay oppertunities and adventure hooks.

I wonder who came up with SLMH for the power source? I certainly have never heard of it in Robotech or Macross before. Robotech used protoculture as a power source and the unedited Macross I believe they said the engines were overtechnology thermonuclear "reaction" engines. I do not remember anywhere actually in Robotech or Macross that SLMH was mentioned as a power source. So I'd say it should be able to run on whatever works for your campaign. If you want to use the SLMH, go for it, equally if you want to call it some other kind of overtechnology, just as good.

Maybe phase world use some SLMH? I don't see why it shouldn't if it suited you as GM. Does the nuclear powered stuff in PW ever state what the nuclear fuel is anyway?

Jerell wrote:I wonder who came up with SLMH for the power source? I certainly have never heard of it in Robotech or Macross before. Robotech used protoculture as a power source and the unedited Macross I believe they said the engines were overtechnology thermonuclear "reaction" engines.

In robotech they never say what they use as fuel in macross and southern cross periods of the show. in new generation we have specific mention of protoculture. harmony gold has decided that the macross and southern cross peroid mecha use thermonuclear fusion powerplant's. no reason was given why they decided this, but odds are it relates to in universe dilemma's involving using an unknown alien fuel in extremely short supply while building a massive military. it would be rather like trying to fuel our entire US military with the contents of one salvaged battleship's fuel bunkers.

SLMH, Stabilized liquid Metallic Hydrogen, was chosen as the fuel for these thermonuclear powerplants after discussions between harmony gold's writing staff and palladium book's. metallic hydrogen is hydrogen fuel, which is what fusion power requires, compressed to a point where it has traits similar to a metal. one of the more amazing discoveries made i nthe last 20 years is that there is a point where the hydrogen reaches this state while still liquid, and more amazingly, will remain in the liquid metallic state when the pressure is removed. sadly no one has managed to build a system to actually produce it in real life yet, but the math checks out.

in macross they use thermonuclear fusion for most everything, though they never defined what the fuel used is like Harmony gold has.

Maybe phase world use some SLMH? Does the nuclear powered stuff in PW ever state what the nuclear fuel is anyway?

i'll answer the latter first. Phase world vehicles are described as using Antimatter reactors for power. these use antimatter fuel, basically a type of matter that has opposite charge than regular matter. so for example the antimatter version of an electron ( negative charge) is the positron (positive charge) but is the same mass and energy level and what not. when matter and it's antimatter counterpart meet, they obliterate each other releasing their entire combined mass as energy. a few grams of the stuff can create blasts large enough to level a city. if you have a system to capture and convert that energy, the same few grams could power said city for several years.
so they aren't nuclear. (the vehicle stats don't even claim that).

could phaseworld produce SLMH? probably. however the question is more "why would they?" ships and vehicles in the phase world setting are antimatter powered, which is several orders of magnitude more efficent and powerful. SLMH works best as a fusion reactor fuel. you can use it for other applications where better storage of hydrogen is useful like internal combustion cars, chemical rockets, thermonuclear bombs. aside from the last, nearly all phaseworld groups have abandoned such tech for thousands of years. and with the last, you don't need SLMH to make them. some lithium hydride and a compressive trigger (like an inertial confinement laser igniter) works just fine.

so the big question in phase world is more 'how much are you willing to pay to get it', since such material isn't likely to be on the common market.

WTH is protoculture anyways? Read it a time or three in some of the books, but am not sure it ever describes it in detail.

ok.. found it on google.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoculture_(Macross)

By processing the Flowers of Life, the energy source, known as Protoculture, was created.[12] Due to the greed and growing thirst for power of the Tirolian government, the planet of Optera is almost completely devastated due to Tirolian harvesting of the Flowers of Life. This callous defoliation inspires the Invid to create their immense war machine and attack the Tirolians, aka the Robotech Masters. After the Emperor orders Zor's father killed, Zor decides to destroy the Masters' Protoculture factories. He then escapes the Masters, along with the only remaining Protoculture Matrix, inside the experimental SDF-1 Zentraedi Monitor. After being mortally wounded during an Invid ambush, Zor sends the space fortress on a random space fold, and passes away. The ship soon crashes on Earth and sets the stage for the whole Robotech saga.[13]

Simple solution... it's a flower... ok, if debees are all over rifts, why wouldn't a few of the spores of the flowers end up there too, and eventually grow and create a field, etc.

Heck, maybe the bloom of a millenium tree have similar properties?... or the moss that grows near the roots of those trees or something?

All sort of possibilities and story ideas.

the official answer is "copy right issues". the same reason there are not any offical converison book sections on it. since Robotech is a liscense obtained fro manother company, palladium has to keep the game lines seperate officially.

certainly as a GM you could have flower of life growing in RIFTS, but keep in mind that;

a) Most robotech character don't know how to extract the protoculture molecules from the FoL spores
b) the people on Rifts earth wouldn't know what protoculture was, and also would not now how to extract protoculture from the Fol spores.

generally unless you have an entire starship or fleet rifted in, there isn't going to be anyone able to set up a way to produce more protoculture, even if you do find some FoL. but if you rift in an entire starship or fleet, that is going to totally change the entire planet because Robotech ships and mecha in groups are more mobile, more capable, and more powerful than many RIFTS military forces.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the official answer is "copy right issues". the same reason there are not any offical converison book sections on it. since Robotech is a liscense obtained fro manother company, palladium has to keep the game lines seperate officially.

certainly as a GM you could have flower of life growing in RIFTS, but keep in mind that;

a) Most robotech character don't know how to extract the protoculture molecules from the FoL spores
b) the people on Rifts earth wouldn't know what protoculture was, and also would not now how to extract protoculture from the Fol spores.

generally unless you have an entire starship or fleet rifted in, there isn't going to be anyone able to set up a way to produce more protoculture, even if you do find some FoL. but if you rift in an entire starship or fleet, that is going to totally change the entire planet because Robotech ships and mecha in groups are more mobile, more capable, and more powerful than many RIFTS military forces.

rift the whole fleet in. Might stand a chance against the Mechanoids?

a single garfish would find the mechanoids that got rifted in a worthy opponent. an Ikazuchi or Tokugawa would curbstomp that mechanoids force.

a whole fleet would be the kind of thing you throw at the coalition states or atlantis.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the official answer is "copy right issues". the same reason there are not any offical converison book sections on it. since Robotech is a liscense obtained fro manother company, palladium has to keep the game lines seperate officially...

Or, if you use what was in the original CB, the IFoL can't grow within 100 miles of a ley line.

The Beast wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:the official answer is "copy right issues". the same reason there are not any offical converison book sections on it. since Robotech is a liscense obtained fro manother company, palladium has to keep the game lines seperate officially...

Or, if you use what was in the original CB, the IFoL can't grow within 100 miles of a ley line.

which given how many ley lines are on rifts earth, means you might find a handful of plants growing somewhere in..well, nowhere.

glitterboy2098 wrote:a) Most robotech character don't know how to extract the protoculture molecules from the FoL spores

Most do not? I thought it would be closer to no one knows.
In the current Canon who does?
Of everyone, I can think of:

Zor: Did, but is dead.
Zor Prime: May have at the end, but died trying to destroy all the FoL.
Rem: In Sentinels he learned to do it, albeit a bit flawed. Sentinels is kinda para-canon to non-canon now, so not sure on him.
Emile Lang:?
Lazlo Zand:?

The Invid: Regent, Regis(s), possibly 'brains'. But the one time they shared it, it lead to genocide against them. Doubt they would help.

i would say there is a good chance most mecha and starship engineers in New Gen and Shadow Chronicles would know that it's obtained from the spores of the FoL, but it is also unlikely many know the exact process by which this is done. likewise unless they have a high end chemistry skill as well, i'd imagine they'd not know what molecules to look for, making it harder to reverse engineer the processes used.