E.B.S.I.S. - Eastern Baltic Soveriegn Independant States

[glitterboy2098]

posted up a new section at my website.

A new EBSIS for a new RPG.

that page includes the history and background of this new version of the EBSIS. (though i prefer to use the name "baltic states" in refernces to them, to avoid confusion with the old rpg's version). that background and history is only 'part 1', bringing the story up to about 2014 and the destruction of new macross city. i've got notes for part 2, which covers up to 2025 and how the Baltic States and the New-UEG fought against each other, along side each other, and eventually came to an agreement which both could accept to if not like. and for part 3, which covers the period during the 2nd war and what happened to the Baltic States during the invid Invasion and occupation.

details on their Mecha, Combat vehicles, and other systems are in the works. i have detail on their Reconstruction era mecha, but i need to throw together some details on the vehicles and aircraft, though those are mostly based on real world systems.

[SRoss]

I think I have stats for an SU-27 on a piece of line paper somewhere?

[glitterboy2098]

actually i have stats for the SU-27 already. also SU-33, -35, and 37, J-11, PAK-FA, Mig-29, Mig-35....

though i'll probably not have more than a handful of SU-27B's, those belarus have.
in this case, the aircraft involved are the F-16C/D Block52+, the MiG-29A's and Mig-29UB's, a large number of Su-25's ,and some SU-22's and Su-27's..
i'm still deciding how many of the planes would survive fighting the zentreadi..


and speaking of combat units: the first two mecha are up

[taalismn]

Looking good there. I'll see if I can't assemble a few practical mecha/war machines appropriate to the area from available(and plausible) parts and technology.

[glitterboy2098]

Looking good there. I'll see if I can't assemble a few practical mecha/war machines appropriate to the area from available(and plausible) parts and technology.

at the moment i have plans to repurpose the old Strike force Light Insurgent battloid, the crusader, and the mini-MAC.
i've been looking at regional concept military units for ideas for non-mecha units. so far i've found one ground attack plane, and a couple of armored vehicles. mostly from poland, mind you.

but i'm open to suggestions, especially stuff that isn't polish based..


also, if any one has questions about how the EBSIS economy or government works, just ask. i'm still working out the detals, but i'm willing to give the general info. i can tell you this though. aside fro mthe name, this new EBSIS is a totally different beast from the old RPG's neo-soviet's..

[Chris0013]

Me likey....Would love to see some more mecha units for them. I may have to come up with something as well....if someone else can do the art for me.

[ZINO]

DAME
N1 man!!!!

[glitterboy2098]

Me likey....Would love to see some more mecha units for them. I may have to come up with something as well....if someone else can do the art for me.

some of the artwork i'm planning to use.. obviously the names will change.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/t99surgut.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/maverick.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/crusader.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/gladius.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/libattloid.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/minimac.gif

i'm trying to stick to palladium art from the old game or unused concepts from the three component shows in regards to mecha. that way it fits into the setting, and i can't be accused of encouraging conversions.

[Chris0013]

Me likey....Would love to see some more mecha units for them. I may have to come up with something as well....if someone else can do the art for me.

some of the artwork i'm planning to use.. obviously the names will change.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/t99surgut.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/maverick.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/crusader.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/gladius.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/libattloid.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/robotech/minimac.gif

i'm trying to stick to palladium art from the old game or unused concepts from the three component shows in regards to mecha. that way it fits into the setting, and i can't be accused of encouraging conversions.

I hereby claim the Light Insurgent Battloid as the new Recon Destroyer...give me a few days and I will PM some text to you.

[glitterboy2098]

note that i reserve the right to change the fluff to match the history and setting i'm developing. but i'm always open to ideas for weapons loads and such. just try to remember these are based on a mix of reverse engineered copies of UEDF hardware, local hardware, and reverse engineered zentreadi hardware. they'll tend to lean towards the "rugged and practical".
and they tend to have a more NATO style naming convention, where units get an official nickname instead of being known by their role. thus for example the MBR-05 Hussar, hussar's being a type of light cavalry used extensively in the region in the 14th through 18th century. or the Orzel, named after the eagles common in the region. etc.

[Chris0013]

note that i reserve the right to change the fluff to match the history and setting i'm developing. but i'm always open to ideas for weapons loads and such. just try to remember these are based on a mix of reverse engineered copies of UEDF hardware, local hardware, and reverse engineered zentreadi hardware. they'll tend to lean towards the "rugged and practical".
and they tend to have a more NATO style naming convention, where units get an official nickname instead of being known by their role. thus for example the MBR-05 Hussar, hussar's being a type of light cavalry used extensively in the region in the 14th through 18th century. or the Orzel, named after the eagles common in the region. etc.

Not a problem...giving it a fission reactor like the Hussar and no energy weapons becasue of it....load out will be missile launchers in the chest and am changing the gun pod from missile launcher to rotary cannon based on the Karyovin's main weapon.

[Jefffar]

Always been a big fan of the EBSIS - had a lot of material put together for them at one point.

[glitterboy2098]

note that i reserve the right to change the fluff to match the history and setting i'm developing. but i'm always open to ideas for weapons loads and such. just try to remember these are based on a mix of reverse engineered copies of UEDF hardware, local hardware, and reverse engineered zentreadi hardware. they'll tend to lean towards the "rugged and practical".
and they tend to have a more NATO style naming convention, where units get an official nickname instead of being known by their role. thus for example the MBR-05 Hussar, hussar's being a type of light cavalry used extensively in the region in the 14th through 18th century. or the Orzel, named after the eagles common in the region. etc.

Not a problem...giving it a fission reactor like the Hussar and no energy weapons becasue of it....load out will be missile launchers in the chest and am changing the gun pod from missile launcher to rotary cannon based on the Karyovin's main weapon.

i don't really like how the karyovin gained a gatling. the original macross production art shows a single barrel cannon. but the notes refer to a gatling. probably mean a Revolver cannon, which combines a gatling action with a single barrel. oh well.

figuring out where the baltic states got the cannons of Karoyvin's will be interesting, they stopped buying russian planes well before the global war. might be easier to fluff if you make it a GSh-301 30mm autocannon, with a helical ammo-bin around the barrel along the lines of the GU-11, giving it a full 150 or 180 rounds of fire. they've got plenty of Mig-29's, Su-27's, and Su-25's which carry them. the GSh-301 would be a good basis for a light mecha gunpod.. i had planned to use a Bofors 40mm for a larger mecha gun pod. still debating whether to use the AKG name though..

[MikelAmroni]

Seems like to me that this new EBSIS would be a prime candidate for being a major supplier of IMUs.

I also think they'd be a prime candidate for a "zentraedi bot" producer - basically a very basic frame battloid that you could take a micronized zentraedi and put them in, and let them use the old zentraedi gear laying around with little to no lag time in training. After all, why convert male power armor to be run by a four man crew, if you can build a fusion powered frame that would allow a zentraedi pilot (with limited training on the frame's operation) use his old mecha, but have the added joy of only feeding a human sized warrior. This could be one of the early stop gaps, assuming the follow the old EBSIS's cue of hiring zentraedi for their army. Zaria's core unit can be what you use for the basis.

I did a quick edit of the picture, using the head from the LIB. I removed all of the flight aspects, and bulked it out. Oh yeah, I dropped it to one autocannon, not two. No need for gun-breasts after all
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... ttloid.jpg

But using this system, they could easily bulk out their forces and have a decent battloid frame to use for IMUs that use VF-1s as the basis. I'd give it a thruster assisted jump (since I unintentionally retained the thruster feet ), but otherwise limit it to gun pods and running without major modification.

[ZINO]

nice !!

[Chris0013]

Seems like to me that this new EBSIS would be a prime candidate for being a major supplier of IMUs.

I also think they'd be a prime candidate for a "zentraedi bot" producer - basically a very basic frame battloid that you could take a micronized zentraedi and put them in, and let them use the old zentraedi gear laying around with little to no lag time in training. After all, why convert male power armor to be run by a four man crew, if you can build a fusion powered frame that would allow a zentraedi pilot (with limited training on the frame's operation) use his old mecha, but have the added joy of only feeding a human sized warrior. This could be one of the early stop gaps, assuming the follow the old EBSIS's cue of hiring zentraedi for their army. Zaria's core unit can be what you use for the basis.

I did a quick edit of the picture, using the head from the LIB. I removed all of the flight aspects, and bulked it out. Oh yeah, I dropped it to one autocannon, not two. No need for gun-breasts after all
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... ttloid.jpg

But using this system, they could easily bulk out their forces and have a decent battloid frame to use for IMUs that use VF-1s as the basis. I'd give it a thruster assisted jump (since I unintentionally retained the thruster feet ), but otherwise limit it to gun pods and running without major modification.

Can you do a cut and paste for me? The primary defense drone form the Factory sattelite with the top cannons, sensor stuff removed and replaced with a Officer's pod cannon and remove the swivel cannons on the side?

Got a micronian battlepod idea that I would need art for...

[glitterboy2098]

i didn't plan for the EBSIS to be a supplier of IMU's, but given their free market economy, odds are many IMU's built before the arrival of the invid are using EBSIS produced electronics and mechanical parts.


oh, and EBSIS ground vehicle page is up. if anyone has suggestions for a self propelled artillery vehicle that the region might be able to produce, let me know. in research, i couldn't find anything dating from before 2000..

using the same approach, i hope to have an EBSIS air vehicle page up soon.

[Jefffar]

This Polish howitzer is actually a couple of pre-2000 systems (PT-91 Tank, AS-90 Howitzer) cobbled together, no reason it couldn't be made if you're sticking to the 2000 deadline.

[glitterboy2098]

This Polish howitzer is actually a couple of pre-2000 systems (PT-91 Tank, AS-90 Howitzer) cobbled together, no reason it couldn't be made if you're sticking to the 2000 deadline.

i'd seen that one, but wasn't sure what the backstory was. i'll look into it.
i've picked 2000 as a cut off point for most things (i've violated it for the KTO Rosomak, mainly to avoid using the BMP-1...)

[Jefffar]

Also if you're looking for a few other new but pre-2000 vehicles

BWP-2000 IFV

WR-40 Langusta MRLS While technically post 2000 it's the mating of the earlier BM-21 with a more powerful truck chassis, still credible.

[Jefffar]

Well the section in New Generation referring to Eastern Europe describes a medieval society with 20th century technology, so 2000 is as good a cut off as any.

[MikelAmroni]

i didn't plan for the EBSIS to be a supplier of IMU's, but given their free market economy, odds are many IMU's built before the arrival of the invid are using EBSIS produced electronics and mechanical parts.

Fair enough - I just always thought that the Zaria core unit was one of pure genius - keeps it to one pilot, and you extend the uses of perfect working order Zentraedi units, and you have a nice back up battle unit. But it makes more sense as a produced unit than a series of salvage jobs (ie as an IMU itself).

Can you do a cut and pase for me? The primary defense drone form the Factory sattelite with the top cannons, sensor stuff removed and replaced with a Officer's pod cannon and remove the swivel cannons on the side?
Got a micronian battlepod idea that I would need art for...

I just tried and I can't make it happen quickly. It doesn't help that the quality and size of the line art samples I am working from are so drastically different. PM me with a google or hotmail/yahoo IM address and we'll talk about it in a bit easier to manuever medium than the boards

[glitterboy2098]

Well the section in New Generation referring to Eastern Europe describes a medieval society with 20th century technology, so 2000 is as good a cut off as any.

in this case, it's more an attempt to avoid issues with robotech's global war. for convience i'm assuming the soviet union collapsed in 1991, same as in our timeline. i presume the rise of china as a modern industrialized nation is what led to the Global war, but that the conflict was largely one fought in asia, africa, and the middle east.
this lets me use actual history up to about 1991, and given how much fighting occured in real life between 1991 and 2000, i don't feel there will be much of a problem given our current lack of knoweldge about robotech's global war. NATO and the ex-soviet republics can have their history progress much as with our timeline. after 2000 though, the UEG exists and the world's tech development skews off into some different directions due to the tech from the SDF-1. anything not in the works in the 90's i figure wouldn't neccesarily be developed. so no f-35, no PAK-FA, no T-90 black eagle tank, etc.

as for the 'medieval society with mid 20th century tech' seen in the invid occupation, i've got notes about that, and how you can have that and flights of VF-1's intercepting people over the region after the invid leave, claiming violations of sovereign airspace.

[Arnie100]

Great work, glitterboy! Looking forward to seeing the new material! Will you be including EBSIS specific OCCs, as well?

[Jefffar]

2T Stalker a Belorussian reconnaissance vehicle. First displayed in 2001 so it;s a tad new for you, but it would have definitely been under development in the 1990s.

It also gives you a Belorussian produced item.

[glitterboy2098]

2T Stalker a Belorussian reconnaissance vehicle. First displayed in 2001 so it;s a tad new for you, but it would have definitely been under development in the 1990s.

It also gives you a Belorussian produced item.

hmm... made in Minsk...now known as Minsk Crater after the zentreadi landing ship performed an uncontrolled Lithobraking on it... maybe. certainly the factory/s could be justified as having survived intact enough to be salvaged and relocated..

Great work, glitterboy! Looking forward to seeing the new material! Will you be including EBSIS specific OCCs, as well?

at the moment, no such plans. the Macross era OCC's from pg13 of the macross saga sourcebook should be a good base, just replace space oriented skills with suitable groundbased alternatives. looking those over, it looks like the only real 'missing OCC' would be a tank crewman OCC.. though that might work best as a new MOS for one of the existing OCC's..


also, short addition to the mecha page.. detailing what 'normal' macross mecha they have. unlike the old RPG, i've avoided giving hard numbers.. instead going for 'upper limit's'. this way GM's have a good idea of how many might be around, but they can feel free to fudge the numbers to allow more creative encounters.

[taalismn]

i didn't plan for the EBSIS to be a supplier of IMU's, but given their free market economy, odds are many IMU's built before the arrival of the invid are using EBSIS produced electronics and mechanical parts.

n.

They might do a nice trade in selling refit kits and refurbishment supplies for older Zentraedi and UEDF gear for mercenary security firms and organizations...mind you, they wouldn't sell to ANYBODY, but they might give the old Mercantile Republic(another indie nation that went poof! with the new edition) some competition for arming the more seriously organized independent nations who the UEG can't, or won't, supply and support.

And I'm looking at the WR_VJ_101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWR_VJ_101) as the basis of a cheap 'demi-Veritech', although my main difficulty is coming up with a manufacturer designation(a Mig? Or a Yak? ) and a name for it('Temujin' maybe?).

No, wait....Any Sukhoi factories in Belarus? Or nearby? If I could combine the Su-25 'Frogfoot's' nose section with the rear airframe and wing nacelles of the EWR-VJ-101, I can incorporate the SU-25's nose cannon, and also add a decent nose radar.

[taalismn]

2T Stalker a Belorussian reconnaissance vehicle. First displayed in 2001 so it;s a tad new for you, but it would have definitely been under development in the 1990s.

It also gives you a Belorussian produced item.

To go with the above, since it's lacking in image: http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/mbt/mbt.belarus.2t-stalker.1.jpg

[jaymz]

Nice work GB

[glitterboy2098]

new mecha up on the mecha page.
that pretty much finishes up the "first generation' ebsis mecha, the stuff they develop from 2012 to about 2020. note that the current history page ends at 2014.. the Orzel comes in after the UEG/EBSIS talks start to go recursive. it'll play a role in some of the reconstruction era chaos yet to be revealed..


oh, and for those writing up destroids for consideration in the '2nd generation' of mecha..
manufacturing lines become available outside lithuania (entirely new companies, not just new lines) SLMH fusion is available by 2020, the EBSIS typical ATGM/SRM is a 125mm (and there are 73mm laser guided and passive IR guided 'minimissiles' available) and i was thinking about calling the old LIB the "Uhlan" and the old crusader the "Dragoon"...though the names are in the air when i'm not doing the design work. the Baltic States tend to name their ground mecha after locally used regional military unit types from the past. hussars, Uhlans, dragoons, even the Riesengarde...the latter being technically a prussian unit not a unit type, but still..

[taalismn]

new mecha up on the mecha page.
that pretty much finishes up the "first generation' ebsis mecha, the stuff they develop from 2012 to about 2020. note that the current history page ends at 2014.. the Orzel comes in after the UEG/EBSIS talks start to go recursive. it'll play a role in some of the reconstruction era chaos yet to be revealed..


oh, and for those writing up destroids for consideration in the '2nd generation' of mecha..
manufacturing lines become available outside lithuania (entirely new companies, not just new lines) SLMH fusion is available by 2020, the EBSIS typical ATGM/SRM is a 125mm (and there are 73mm laser guided and passive IR guided 'minimissiles' available) and i was thinking about calling the old LIB the "Uhlan" and the old crusader the "Dragoon"...though the names are in the air when i'm not doing the design work. the Baltic States tend to name their ground mecha after locally used regional military unit types from the past. hussars, Uhlans, dragoons, even the Riesengarde...the latter being technically a prussian unit not a unit type, but still..

First- and second-generation AAMs?

[jaymz]

@GB - you ever think of using any Battletech images for EBSIS mecha units? there are somet hat blend in quite well.

[glitterboy2098]

@GB - you ever think of using any Battletech images for EBSIS mecha units? there are somet hat blend in quite well.

i'm a big fan of battletech, and if i went that route i could probably find any number of mechs that would fit. but i chose to stick to three sources for this project.
1) real world hardware, be it in use, cancelled prototype, or unbuilt concept.
2) Original Source Material from macross, southern cross, and MOSPEADA
3) currently unused artwork from the robotech 1st edition.

i figured that this way i'd not have to worry about the stylings fitting into the setting, and i can avoid issues with "conversions"... there are a number of things from Full Metal Panic, Gall Force, Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell, and tank Police i could have used had i gone down that route.

[glitterboy2098]

you know, sometimes i'm not sure if my brain is intentionally trying to saddle me with irony, or if it just works out that way.
the zentreadi force that emergency landed south of Belarus, the one that i described as landing near Chernihiv in the Ukraine? the one that caused the 'belarus crisis' that cemented the relationship between the surviving baltic states?

guess where they would have landed near?



no wonder they struck out north in search of supplies..

[SailorCallie]

you know, sometimes i'm not sure if my brain is intentionally trying to saddle me with irony, or if it just works out that way.
the zentreadi force that emergency landed south of Belarus, the one that i described as landing near Chernihiv in the Ukraine? the one that caused the 'belarus crisis' that cemented the relationship between the surviving baltic states?

guess where they would have landed near?



no wonder they struck out north in search of supplies..

^ Ironic, isn't it?

[glitterboy2098]

you know, sometimes i'm not sure if my brain is intentionally trying to saddle me with irony, or if it just works out that way.
the zentreadi force that emergency landed south of Belarus, the one that i described as landing near Chernihiv in the Ukraine? the one that caused the 'belarus crisis' that cemented the relationship between the surviving baltic states?

guess where they would have landed near?



no wonder they struck out north in search of supplies..

^ Ironic, isn't it?

especially since i'd planned to have the survivors from said group hole up in their ships living off what little they could scroung up until culture shock from earth radio and TV converted them to the EBSIS side..

now i'll need to move their refuge farther south.

[taalismn]

I'd think that with their huge size and hardened cell walls, Zenttaedi would be able to handle fairly heavy doses of radiation(shame on the Masters if they didn't make them so!)...
Now, I'd seen a recent PBS special(which makes me an expert! ) on the recovery of the wilderness around Chernobyl(it's actually coming back fairly gangbusters) but unless the Russians used some of the new MDC materials to reinforce the Sarcophagus, seismic shocks and atmospheric shockwaves from the Rain of Death probably cracked the containment structure and released a new cloud of radiation that even the Zentraedi would be concerned about. So your concerns are still valid.
Might have been different if the Sarcophagus took a direct Heavy PBC strike...Total(or close enough) atomic disintegration and the crater glass would do the rest...

[ZINO]

I have been writing my own EBSIS story and time-line. Cliff Notes version. EBSIS is involved in the SDF-1 Robotech Research Project. Once they have enough tech to make M.D. weapons and armor they back out of the program to resume support of the anti-unification group(s) missing out on mecha development. Something that will cost them much in the long run. They lose 70% of everything at the end of the 1st Robotech War. They rebuild and have some limited engagements with The Masters. The Masters would send small attack forces against the Rooskies any time they launched an assault on the Southern Cross to keep the EBSIS from coming to the rescue not realizing that the EBSIS wanted nothing to do with the Southern Cross. Hey, The Masters are aliens and are not prevy to all the politics of Earth! After the 1st Robotech War the EBSIS begins moving all major productions, ground transport, and military ops underground. They still have a "normal" appearance above ground with bases, farms, cities, etc. But these are cannon fodder targets for future invaders such as the Invid. After the Invid invasion the EBSIS plays dead until the storm passes. They then begin a guerilla war against the Invid with the culmination of nuke strikes on hives during the Symphony of Light. They end up wiping out a small hive for target practice but their 100 megaton multi-warhead stealth ICBMs launched at Reflex Point meet the same fate as the REF Neutron S missiles.

Here is my EBSIS site...

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/robotech013/

I have MiG and other stats on this page. It is a work in development.

nice
all we need is some art work
you can go to http://www.deviantart.com/

[glitterboy2098]

if it works for you, great. but the old RPG's 'neo-soviet union' just doesn't fit well into the new RPG's closer ties to canon. the existance of a large hostile human power definately doesn't work within the show canon or the new RPG.

with the Baltic's, i'm trying to come up with a power that isn't so much an antagonist for the UEG/ASC, but more of an 'alternate protagonist' for everyone else. the history i've been working on has the EBSIS and the UEG fighting some minor skirmishes, usually due to local issues or mistake, not global politics, and fighting together just as often. eventually they settle their differences in a way that doesn't involve conflict, and allows both to exist.


oh, and the OCC's are up

[taalismn]

if it works for you, great. but the old RPG's 'neo-soviet union' just doesn't fit well into the new RPG's closer ties to canon. the existance of a large hostile human power definately doesn't work within the show canon or the new RPG.

with the Baltic's, i'm trying to come up with a power that isn't so much an antagonist for the UEG/ASC, but more of an 'alternate protagonist' for everyone else. the history i've been working on has the EBSIS and the UEG fighting some minor skirmishes, usually due to local issues or mistake, not global politics, and fighting together just as often. eventually they settle their differences in a way that doesn't involve conflict, and allows both to exist.


oh, and the OCC's are up

It's more like the old Mercantile Republic would be if it was more benign and more creative and self-sufficient. A little freer with the marketable hardware, not willing to sell out their independence and self-governance to the more fear-mongering world-rule elements of the ASC( Or...amazing how a little martial law becomes a permanent state of emergency), but willing to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in event of a true global crisis.

I also find the military OCCs from "Ninjas and Superspies"(minus the more esoteric martial arts and the Cyborg Soldier class---unless you REALLY want to stir things up) are also helpful for creating non-mecha -nized characters. Rifter #25 also has a good article; "Guns for Hire" by John C. Philpott, on realistic 'modern day' military OCCs, including Special Forces and Counter-Terrorism units that are useful for adding grit to UEG rank and file units that weren't switched over to mecha.

[glitterboy2098]

if it works for you, great. but the old RPG's 'neo-soviet union' just doesn't fit well into the new RPG's closer ties to canon. the existance of a large hostile human power definately doesn't work within the show canon or the new RPG.

with the Baltic's, i'm trying to come up with a power that isn't so much an antagonist for the UEG/ASC, but more of an 'alternate protagonist' for everyone else. the history i've been working on has the EBSIS and the UEG fighting some minor skirmishes, usually due to local issues or mistake, not global politics, and fighting together just as often. eventually they settle their differences in a way that doesn't involve conflict, and allows both to exist.

oh, and the OCC's are up

It's more like the old Mercantile Republic would be if it was more benign and more creative and self-sufficient. A little freer with the marketable hardware, not willing to sell out their independence and self-governance to the more fear-mongering world-rule elements of the ASC( Or...amazing how a little martial law becomes a permanent state of emergency), but willing to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in event of a true global crisis.

if you watch the show with the critical eye of the historian, you quickly lose any false impressions of the post-war UEG and ASC being the sort of liberal democracy with a free market that defines the american ideal.

the UEG government we see immediately after the 1st war ends and during the early reconstruction is effectively a military government, with apparently no elected officials in the positions of power. while the civilian leaderships have enough voice to convince the military leaders to change a local policy (look at the sizing chamber incident), they don't seem to have much say about their situation overall.

by the time of the ASC, there definately seems to be more power in the hand of 'civilian' leaders, probably as a result of the 'neo-fuedal' governement in place by then, but the military still seems to have undue control over the people. you have a KGB/GRU type organization watching everyone and the military completely dominates the society. combined with the apparent government ownership of all heavy industrial production and military tech development, you get a system that appears to be somewhere halfway between Perestroika era Russia and Modern China. partially totalitarian systems with a veneer of democracy and capitalism.
and the EUG bigwigs in the masters saga certainly behave the same way you'd expect the high muckytymucks in such systems to behave, when we see them on screen.
so the choice to make the '2nd edition' EBSIS into a democratic and free market system helps make it more unique.
but they're humans too, and while their differences stem from philosophical and historical disagreements, they aren't going to try and intentionally undercut the more powerful entitiy. especially when such actions mean earth's safety is endangered.

[Chris0013]

if it works for you, great. but the old RPG's 'neo-soviet union' just doesn't fit well into the new RPG's closer ties to canon. the existance of a large hostile human power definately doesn't work within the show canon or the new RPG.

with the Baltic's, i'm trying to come up with a power that isn't so much an antagonist for the UEG/ASC, but more of an 'alternate protagonist' for everyone else. the history i've been working on has the EBSIS and the UEG fighting some minor skirmishes, usually due to local issues or mistake, not global politics, and fighting together just as often. eventually they settle their differences in a way that doesn't involve conflict, and allows both to exist.

oh, and the OCC's are up

It's more like the old Mercantile Republic would be if it was more benign and more creative and self-sufficient. A little freer with the marketable hardware, not willing to sell out their independence and self-governance to the more fear-mongering world-rule elements of the ASC( Or...amazing how a little martial law becomes a permanent state of emergency), but willing to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in event of a true global crisis.

if you watch the show with the critical eye of the historian, you quickly lose any false impressions of the post-war UEG and ASC being the sort of liberal democracy with a free market that defines the american ideal.

the UEG government we see immediately after the 1st war ends and during the early reconstruction is effectively a military government, with apparently no elected officials in the positions of power. while the civilian leaderships have enough voice to convince the military leaders to change a local policy (look at the sizing chamber incident), they don't seem to have much say about their situation overall.

by the time of the ASC, there definately seems to be more power in the hand of 'civilian' leaders, probably as a result of the 'neo-fuedal' governement in place by then, but the military still seems to have undue control over the people. you have a KGB/GRU type organization watching everyone and the military completely dominates the society. combined with the apparent government ownership of all heavy industrial production and military tech development, you get a system that appears to be somewhere halfway between Perestroika era Russia and Modern China. partially totalitarian systems with a veneer of democracy and capitalism.
and the EUG bigwigs in the masters saga certainly behave the same way you'd expect the high muckytymucks in such systems to behave, when we see them on screen.
so the choice to make the '2nd edition' EBSIS into a democratic and free market system helps make it more unique.
but they're humans too, and while their differences stem from philosophical and historical disagreements, they aren't going to try and intentionally undercut the more powerful entitiy. especially when such actions mean earth's safety is endangered.

Which just goes to show that the time frame from when the Invid invade onward is a total libertarian free market.

really would rather live in that one than the other 2 and go off on my own...find a nice island and go native.

[ZINO]

Which just goes to show that the time frame from when the Invid invade onward is a total libertarian free market.

really would rather live in that one than the other 2 and go off on my own...find a nice island and go native.

?????huh???in other words???

[ZINO]

glitterboy2098 very well done if i say so
dont stop looking forward to what next you have me guessing here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AWESOME MAN!!!

[glitterboy2098]

Which just goes to show that the time frame from when the Invid invade onward is a total libertarian free market.

really would rather live in that one than the other 2 and go off on my own...find a nice island and go native.

?????huh???in other words???

sorry. sometimes we slip into history/sociology geek speak.

the united earth government that forms after the war with the zentreadi and is in power during the war with the masters has the signs of being a military dominates society where the government has immense power and little in the way of checks on its power, the average person has little to no say in how their government runs, and where everything but a few luxury goods are produced by government run or government owned companies. those companies not run by or owned by the government directly would be under very strict laws about wages, production, etc. to the point where those companies make little actual money from their products.

what chris said is basically that when the invid arrive and destroy that government, the result would be that people could now live their lives however they wish and making and selling goods could be done with no oversight at all, making for the ultimate in open markets. (people who support 'little to no government and no restrictions on the economy" are generally called libertarians. )

[glitterboy2098]

don't have much time to spare, i'm posting this while i'm supposed to be writing a 1000 word report on the boxer rebellion for class, but i'm a bit hung up as towards how to proceed with this EBSIS material.

i want to get an "aircraft" page up, but i actually have game stats for 2 of the aircraft types, and i have partial stats for a third, thanks to my 'aces wild' project in the rifts section. should i post actual stats?

second, what about a 'munitions page' for the EBSIS, to cover their 73mm guided minimissiles and 125mm ATGM/SRM's, their gunpods, and so on? full stats or just descriptions like i've been doing?

third, i'm still working on continuing the fluff beyond 2014. i've just got papers due, and i've also been trying to write up some of the stuff for RIFTS scandinavia as well, which is ultimately a more important project. this one has been a big help in getting me fired up though..

[Jefffar]

Boxer Rebellion, nice topic.

Anyway, I'd recommend get the fluff stats up for now, not concern yourself too much with game stats on the site until you know everything you are going to stat out. That way you can much more consistently stat them out in relation to each other.

[ZINO]

Boxer Rebellion first then make a decision on 2 of the aircraft types or aces wild' project which ever both will be awsome dont stop !!! now go and do that report Boxer Rebellion
and take your time dont rush man

[ZINO]

Boxer Rebellion first then make a decision on 2 of the aircraft types or aces wild' project which ever both will be awsome dont stop !!! now go and do that report Boxer Rebellion
and take your time dont rush man

[ZINO]

I LOVE THIS!!!!