Forums of the Megaverse®

Okay, I've got into Palladium in quite a big way, but I'm quite new to the system - only played a few semi-games via instant messenger to get a feel for the system so far. I do have a few questions I'm still a little spotty on, so please forgive me if I ask something dumb, or with an obvious answer.

Speed, weight and PE values

This is probably the biggest area of annoyance/frustration for me. I get that you have a Lift weight and a Carry weight. A Carry weight is what your character can pick up and put on their back/shoulders, and still retain at least a shred of movement ability. Their Lift weight is "I can pick this up and hold it at waist height, but it's too heavy to walk with!".... and then you throw your PE value into things. Am I right to assume that the time you can Carry is limited by your PE, or is that only Lifting? And what are the limitations? I've read the various core books I have, and I'm having trouble getting it to stick in a memorable way.

Also, I know that if you have your maximum carry weight, you can move but only very, very slowly. Is there a convention on HOW slowly? Like... 1% of your maximum speed? And that's only when you're lugging your absolute limit around, even an ounce or two more and you'll be stuck in place. What I have trouble getting to stick is how the speed you can move at, and the amount of PE you expend (so the length of time you can hold the load) scale with various weights apart from your maximum. I would usually go with the logic that if you're carrying half your Carry weight, you're reduced to about half your usual speed, but I'm not sure how would be a nice, simple and above all quick way to work PE into the equation - for example, I know there's a set amount of time you can heft your full Lift weight for, but I can't remember what it is, and not sure how to factor in your ability to carry, say, half your full Lift weight, or any other fraction thereof

all the saves you can get

The only saves I can find in Rifts Ultimate edition are Curses (15), Disease (14), Lethal Poison (14), Non-lethal poison (16) harmful drugs (15 - does that include alcohol, or should I class that as a non-lethal poison?) Acids (none possible except dodging), insanity (12 minimum) magic (12-16) and psionics (at least 10 depending on circumstance). Are there any occasions I'm missing where you get a standard saving throw? The only other I can think of is falling/getting knocked over, which I think is something like a 14 maybe... I'm just trying to make sure of everything you could reasonably be expected to make a saving throw against

converting weapons and armour into meaningful stats

I've recently picked up a few books like "the Book of Exotic Weapons" and "Weapons, Armour and Castles of the Orient", and I noticed something weird about them.... weapons have 2 stats called Symmetry (which defines how easy the weapon is to throw accurately; since it's covered in other books I might just generally ignore that stat - some things are meant to be thrown, and some things aren't) Dexterity (how quick or well-balanced a specific weapon is) and instead of having a dice roll they have static damage values. I'm not quite sure how to go about converting those (I'll definitely need Damage, I may be able to dispense with Dexterity and Symmetry altogether) into dice rolls and stat penalties (if necessary) that work in the way presented in After the Bomb and Pantheons of the Megaverse, the 2 books I most often build characters from. Same goes for the Resistance Factors of armour to various forms of attack (since those are just lumped into "when the sword hits you, it does D6 damage however you use it") in later books. I know that a high DEX number for a weapon or an item of armour represents a very cumbersome piece of kit, and therefore should represent a penalty to either Strike/Parry/Dodge rolls, or should actually lower your Physical Prowess - not sure which one, and how to relate the specific DEX number to how much of a penalty the character suffers.

If I have other issues with the Palladium system as a whole, I'll post them all into this thread rather than make another!

Prysus wrote:

PalladiumBrony wrote:Speed, weight and PE values

As for damage reduction with armour ... well, you just have to decide if you like that system or the A.R. system better. Best of luck with that one.

I think I'd be happiest using the AR system, since that's the one I was brought into the system knowing best. So that means I'll need to be able to look at the Compendium of Weapons, Armour and Castles and see, for example, a plate steel breastplate and be able to say "Ahh, that has a RF of x and a DEX of y, which translates to an AR and SDC of z, with a PP penalty of q"

[quote="PalladiumBrony"]
Speed, weight and PE values

Am I right to assume that the time you can Carry is limited by your PE, or is that only Lifting? And what are the limitations? [/quote="PalladiumBrony"]

PE time limitation is only fot Lifting. Check out RUE pg. 286.

[quote="PalladiumBrony"]Also, I know that if you have your maximum carry weight, you can move but only very, very slowly. Is there a convention on HOW slowly? Like... 1% of your maximum speed? And that's only when you're lugging your absolute limit around, even an ounce or two more and you'll be stuck in place. What I have trouble getting to stick is how the speed you can move at, and the amount of PE you expend (so the length of time you can hold the load) scale with various weights apart from your maximum. I would usually go with the logic that if you're carrying half your Carry weight, you're reduced to about half your usual speed, but I'm not sure how would be a nice, simple and above all quick way to work PE into the equation - for example, I know there's a set amount of time you can heft your full Lift weight for, but I can't remember what it is, and not sure how to factor in your ability to carry, say, half your full Lift weight, or any other fraction thereof [/quote="PalladiumBrony"]

AFAIK there is not such rule in Rifts. Your ideas sound good to me.

[quote="PalladiumBrony"]all the saves you can get[/quote="PalladiumBrony"]

In my Rifts GM Screen (second pannel) I made an small compendium of the main saves. Also you can find the list here. (As always click the upper-right button for and automatic google translation).

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for that Mobuttu! Also, sorry to leave this to rot for a short time, hopefully it's still okay to post here. The questions that have come up now are in relation to the Penetration Value concept from the Compendium of Contemporary Weapons.... this is confusing to me. All other books I have refer to armour in terms of AR (which I like, it's nice and simple). But CCW talks about gun ammunition in terms of Penetration Values, and says that certain armour is "resistant" to certain PV's. Does this mean that the gun will simply not penetrate that armour, and only give shock damage? Also, does the AR of multiple different pieces of armour stack up if the shooter/attacker isn't making a Called Shot? or do you use the specific AR of the particular bit of armour hit (which will usually be the torso, but the Random Hit rules in CCW allow you to hit the head (and brain), arm, leg, hand etc) And how does a shield work? I've been working on the principle that it allows you +1 to Parry. Does it also increase your AR, by giving the incoming blow a higher armour:"squishy parts" ratio to have to sneak past?

A couple of specific examples I've needed, for very different games I'm playing among friends at the same time, which will hopefully help illustrate my points. A SWAT officer, wearing a bullet-proof vest and helmet (not sure what armour class to make the bullet proof vest, but it says that a riot helmet is the same as II or IIA, so resistant to PV 1-4... come to think of it, I'm not even sure if a riot helmet is the same as the helmets they wear on building assaults against armed suspects). The character can also have a riot shield during riots, but not during building assaults and arrests - it just gets in the way, LOL.

Second example is actually sort of a 2-parter. What AR should horse barding have? Full plate-steel over the back, haunches and chest, with leg protection. And same question for a steel helmet like in the greek style

Wow, I almost completely forgot about this thread for a bit hopefully it's not died (but if a mod wants me not to engage in thread-o-mancy, I'll happily start another somewhere else). I recently came across a character that wants to make a Eugenic Hero with wings, and there came a question about flight; The conversion I use is that your jogging speed in miles per hour is your Speed value times 1.6, your Sprint speed is your Jogging speed times 1.5 (limited by your PE value in minutes/miles if you take Running) and your maximum flight speed (if you have wings) is your sprint speed x 1.5 again - these might not be the official names for the speeds, they're just what I call them to get an idea of how much effort the character is putting in.

The question that arose is: Is your flight speed specifically referring to level or ascending flight? And can you get any EXTRA speed from going into a big, swooping dive or a dead-man's-drop and getting an assist from gravity? If so, what's a good guideline for how much? Would be especially useful to know if you're doing a fly-by attack, where characters get bonuses to damage based on their speed, and therefore getting up as much speed as possible. Also, since there's no skill to accommodate flying with your own wings (like you have various Piloting skills for flying a vehicle to roll against), what dice would you roll to determine whether a maneuver was successful or caused a crash? I would assume something related to Physical Prowess

PalladiumBrony wrote:Okay, I've got into Palladium in quite a big way, but I'm quite new to the system - only played a few semi-games via instant messenger to get a feel for the system so far. I do have a few questions I'm still a little spotty on, so please forgive me if I ask something dumb, or with an obvious answer.

People who've played these games for decades still can't figure out some of the rules (and even the authors seem to have problems sometimes), so don't sweat it. The cardinal rule is that the rules are only there to help. If you don't like something, throw it out. If something isn't well covered, make up your own rule. But since you asked:

Speed, weight and PE values

This is probably the biggest area of annoyance/frustration for me. I get that you have a Lift weight and a Carry weight. A Carry weight is what your character can pick up and put on their back/shoulders, and still retain at least a shred of movement ability. Their Lift weight is "I can pick this up and hold it at waist height, but it's too heavy to walk with!".... and then you throw your PE value into things. Am I right to assume that the time you can Carry is limited by your PE, or is that only Lifting? And what are the limitations? I've read the various core books I have, and I'm having trouble getting it to stick in a memorable way.

Maximum carry weight can be sustained for P.E. x 2 minutes; maximum lift weight can be sustained for P.E. x 1 melees. Not all books list both of these numbers, unfortunately.

Also, I know that if you have your maximum carry weight, you can move but only very, very slowly. Is there a convention on HOW slowly? Like... 1% of your maximum speed? And that's only when you're lugging your absolute limit around, even an ounce or two more and you'll be stuck in place. What I have trouble getting to stick is how the speed you can move at, and the amount of PE you expend (so the length of time you can hold the load) scale with various weights apart from your maximum. I would usually go with the logic that if you're carrying half your Carry weight, you're reduced to about half your usual speed, but I'm not sure how would be a nice, simple and above all quick way to work PE into the equation - for example, I know there's a set amount of time you can heft your full Lift weight for, but I can't remember what it is, and not sure how to factor in your ability to carry, say, half your full Lift weight, or any other fraction thereof

It makes sense that speed would be reduced when lifting maximum weight, but I can't find any indication of this in the rules. The only rule I can find for moving with maximum lift weight is for hauling or dragging heavy loads, in which case the load can be pulled six inches per point of P.S. (assuming normal human P.S.) with each tug, double if the load is on wheels. Full details of this can be found in the HUGMG, p. 57, under the "Two-Handed Power Pull" maneuver.

Personally, I think a character lifting maximum weight should be limited to moving a few feet per melee at most.

all the saves you can get

The only saves I can find in Rifts Ultimate edition are Curses (15), Disease (14), Lethal Poison (14), Non-lethal poison (16) harmful drugs (15 - does that include alcohol, or should I class that as a non-lethal poison?) Acids (none possible except dodging), insanity (12 minimum) magic (12-16) and psionics (at least 10 depending on circumstance). Are there any occasions I'm missing where you get a standard saving throw? The only other I can think of is falling/getting knocked over, which I think is something like a 14 maybe... I'm just trying to make sure of everything you could reasonably be expected to make a saving throw against

There are others, but they're scattered throughout the books. Various forms of non-spell magic (wards, circles, celestial calligraphy, etc.) have different saving throws than invocations and rituals, but still generally fall in the range of 12 to 16 (cellestial calligraphy only requires a 10, while the circles of a high-level summoner can require a 17 or 18). There are also saves versus Pain (14 in N&S, 16 in Rifts Canada), Electrocution (18), Extreme Heat or Cold (14), Soul Drinking (14), Horror Factor (varies), Possession (varies), Mind Control (14?), and probably numerous others that I've forgotten.

Avoidance of being knocked down is not actually a saving throw, it's a Sense of Balance or Maintain Balance roll. The former is a sub-skill of the Acrobatics, Aerobic Athletics, and Gymnnastics skills, while the latter is simply a roll over the opponent's attack roll, like a parry or dodge (rules for this can be found in Ninjas & Superspies and the HUGMG).

The question that arose is: Is your flight speed specifically referring to level or ascending flight? And can you get any EXTRA speed from going into a big, swooping dive or a dead-man's-drop and getting an assist from gravity? If so, what's a good guideline for how much? Would be especially useful to know if you're doing a fly-by attack, where characters get bonuses to damage based on their speed, and therefore getting up as much speed as possible. Also, since there's no skill to accommodate flying with your own wings (like you have various Piloting skills for flying a vehicle to roll against), what dice would you roll to determine whether a maneuver was successful or caused a crash? I would assume something related to Physical Prowess

The game doesn't really seem to consider acceleration when talking about speeds, so the answers to your first and second questions are unknown.

Determining the success of flying manuvers would depend on what sort of maeuvers you mean and how they're being used. Attempting to swoop in and hit a target would require a strike roll. Jinking away from others' attacks would be a dodge roll. Complex manuevers like diving and then pulling up at the last moment, flying through a narrow passageway, or doing loop-de-loops might be reasonably argued to require some sort of skill roll, if only there were a skill for this sort of thing. I think the Zero-Gravity Movement skill (found in Mutants in Orbit and Phase World) could reasonably be adapted as an Aerobatics skill, possibly with the same percentages (P.P. x 5% to start, IIRC; I forget the level bonus).