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Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

Yep. Dimensional portal is so under utalized. As long as you have the PPE you can go anywhere you want. If it is in the same dimension it cost half the PPE and the you get a Shifter to open them for you and that cuts the cost in half again.

UWW Warlock Marines with a couple of shifters give a whole new meaning to invasion!

I was just noting this in another thread, so I have a handy answer:

RUE lists it as Dimensional Portal (Rift), and Rifts plus ever other form of dimensional travel ever printed (D-Ghouls. Dimensional Teleport, Shifters, etc), require a leyline nexus to function. Also every description of portals opening has also occurred at a nexus, even Ms. Tarn's ill-fated 'jump along a leyline' that lead to one of Wormwood 's 'nexus caves' instead.
Nexuses are the cross-dimensional linking points of the Megaverse.

Armorlord wrote:I was just noting this in another thread, so I have a handy answer:

RUE lists it as Dimensional Portal (Rift), and Rifts plus ever other form of dimensional travel ever printed (D-Ghouls. Dimensional Teleport, Shifters, etc), require a leyline nexus to function. Also every description of portals opening has also occurred at a nexus, even Ms. Tarn's ill-fated 'jump along a leyline' that lead to one of Wormwood 's 'nexus caves' instead.
Nexuses are the cross-dimensional linking points of the Megaverse.

The spell doesn't list that limit in its description. The only limit is the PPE cost.

Nexus are where naturally occurring Rifts happen.

SpiritInterface wrote:The spell doesn't list that limit in its description. The only limit is the PPE cost.

Nexus are where naturally occurring Rifts happen.

Quoting myself again here:
I'm noting that Rifts period are formed at leyline nexuses, or other rare special locations. I would be more lenient about it before RUE added the '(Rift)' qualifier to the spell, but if you wanted to go by older descriptions, then it would seem Dimensional Portal can be triggered from anywhere. Though you still can't target a specific destination inside the target dimension, if you want to go with just the spell description.
You have to go with information from Shifter and Dimensional Teleport before being able to target a specific nexus or dimensional teleport circle in a known destination dimension, or being able to randomly appear in a non-hostile environment.. all from another nexus, circle, or pyramid.

So, in answer to this thread's question:
If you ignore information not directly listed in the spell description, you can open the portal from anywhere, but cannot target a physical location, just randomly into a previously visited dimension or random dimension.
If you go by all the material, you can target a specific nexus, circle, or pyramid, but you have to leave from a nexus, circle, or pyramid. Random arrivals also land at nexuses or other special locations.

I'm pretty sure that Archie isn't sitting on a nexus, and a shifter opened a rift at his base

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'm pretty sure that Archie isn't sitting on a nexus, and a shifter opened a rift at his base

I took that as evidence that there was a nexus running through that part of the complex, considering that they were dealing with a Shifter, whose abilities reference requiring a nexus more directly. I also recall reading about leylines near the area in general, and the exact location of the portion they let the mage into isn't covered.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'm pretty sure that Archie isn't sitting on a nexus, and a shifter opened a rift at his base

Part of his base has a nexus point in it.

The Beast wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'm pretty sure that Archie isn't sitting on a nexus, and a shifter opened a rift at his base

Part of his base has a nexus point in it.

What The Beast said.

HOWEVER.......

......there are canon instances of beings like Gods opening up emergency rifts -for one right-off-the-top-of-my-head example, Brahma whipped up an on-the-spot spell to help his fellow gods escape (and was nearly killed by Kali-ma in the process).

When I get back from my trip this afternoon or later this evening, I'll pull up other canon examples of non-nexus-based dimensional rifts.

Ley Lines and Nexi most definitely make Dimensional Rifting easier, but they don't seem to me to be an absolute requirement (hell, we even have the Dragon's dimensional teleport capabilities as indirect evidence of that).

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

It seems as if, officially, anyone with sufficient PPE can open a dimensional portal anywhere he or she wants to -Ley Lines and Nexuses just make the task easier.

1. The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.
2. In the same book (Rifts: Atlantis), the dimensional rift in the Azlum Asylum doesn't seem to be anchored to either a Ley Line or a Nexus.
3. The technologically-created dimensional portals on Center don't seem to be located on ley lines or nexuses.
4. There is no indication that regularly dimension-spanning creatures like Dragons and Nexus Deevils (see Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval) need to go to ley lines or nexuses in order to teleport.
5. There are dozens if not hundreds of creatures like Gods, Demon/Deevil Lords and Dragons across the many books who have innate, dimension-spanning capabilities that apparently don't require ley lines or nexuses.
6. Finally, there is no directly stated or implied requirement whatsoever that other spells such as Rift to Limbo, Dimensional Closet, Plane Skip and the like -other spells which ALSO create rifts to different dimensions -require the caster to locate Ley Lines/Nexuses.

cornholioprime wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

It seems as if, officially, anyone with sufficient PPE can open a dimensional portal anywhere he or she wants to -Ley Lines and Nexuses just make the task easier.

1. The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.
2. In the same book (Rifts: Atlantis), the dimensional rift in the Azlum Asylum doesn't seem to be anchored to either a Ley Line or a Nexus.
3. The technologically-created dimensional portals on Center don't seem to be located on ley lines or nexuses.
4. There is no indication that regularly dimension-spanning creatures like Dragons and Nexus Deevils (see Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval) need to go to ley lines or nexuses in order to teleport.
5. There are dozens if not hundreds of creatures like Gods, Demon/Deevil Lords and Dragons across the many books who have innate, dimension-spanning capabilities that apparently don't require ley lines or nexuses.
6. Finally, there is no directly stated or implied requirement whatsoever that other spells such as Rift to Limbo, Dimensional Closet, Plane Skip and the like -other spells which ALSO create rifts to different dimensions -require the caster to locate Ley Lines/Nexuses.

Don't forget that random Rifts often open up on the lower levels of Center in Phase World, yet there is no mention of any Ley Lines/Nexus down there.

dragonfett wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

It seems as if, officially, anyone with sufficient PPE can open a dimensional portal anywhere he or she wants to -Ley Lines and Nexuses just make the task easier.

1. The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.
2. In the same book (Rifts: Atlantis), the dimensional rift in the Azlum Asylum doesn't seem to be anchored to either a Ley Line or a Nexus.
3. The technologically-created dimensional portals on Center don't seem to be located on ley lines or nexuses.
4. There is no indication that regularly dimension-spanning creatures like Dragons and Nexus Deevils (see Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval) need to go to ley lines or nexuses in order to teleport.
5. There are dozens if not hundreds of creatures like Gods, Demon/Deevil Lords and Dragons across the many books who have innate, dimension-spanning capabilities that apparently don't require ley lines or nexuses.
6. Finally, there is no directly stated or implied requirement whatsoever that other spells such as Rift to Limbo, Dimensional Closet, Plane Skip and the like -other spells which ALSO create rifts to different dimensions -require the caster to locate Ley Lines/Nexuses.

Don't forget that random Rifts often open up on the lower levels of Center in Phase World, yet there is no mention of any Ley Lines/Nexus down there.

dragonfett wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

It seems as if, officially, anyone with sufficient PPE can open a dimensional portal anywhere he or she wants to -Ley Lines and Nexuses just make the task easier.

1. The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.
2. In the same book (Rifts: Atlantis), the dimensional rift in the Azlum Asylum doesn't seem to be anchored to either a Ley Line or a Nexus.
3. The technologically-created dimensional portals on Center don't seem to be located on ley lines or nexuses.
4. There is no indication that regularly dimension-spanning creatures like Dragons and Nexus Deevils (see Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval) need to go to ley lines or nexuses in order to teleport.
5. There are dozens if not hundreds of creatures like Gods, Demon/Deevil Lords and Dragons across the many books who have innate, dimension-spanning capabilities that apparently don't require ley lines or nexuses.
6. Finally, there is no directly stated or implied requirement whatsoever that other spells such as Rift to Limbo, Dimensional Closet, Plane Skip and the like -other spells which ALSO create rifts to different dimensions -require the caster to locate Ley Lines/Nexuses.

Don't forget that random Rifts often open up on the lower levels of Center in Phase World, yet there is no mention of any Ley Lines/Nexus down there.

Center's the size of North America. I'm pretty sure there's a few down there.

BTS 1 and 2 had "places of power", where were basically places that had leyline or nexus like PPE levels, but wasn't on a leyline at all. no reason these couldn't exist in the other settings.

IMHO, a dimensional portals (spell) can be open very where.

personally i'd say they can be cast anywhere but exit at a nexus, pyramid, or circle.
that how i usually run it in my games.

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensioal portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

Yes. The same goes for the Dimensional Rift Circle and the Shifter's Dimensional Travel ability. If a ley line/nexus is required for a dimensional portal/rift/teleport, this will be explicitly stated (as is the case for hatchling dragons and dimensional ghouls).

SpiritInterface wrote:Nexus are where naturally occurring Rifts happen.

According to RUE, p. 191, natural rifts usually occur at a ley line nexus, but they can occur on a regular ley line if conditions are right. During a solar eclipse, there's even a chance that a rift will appear at a completely random location in midair.

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Given enough PPE, would you allow a dimensional portal to be opened at any location? Not just at a ley line or nexus point. I say sure. Nothing in the text says it has to be at a ley line, just that's where you will find the PPE to open one.

What do you think?

In RUE there is no "on LL/LLN" limitation listed.

The reason for going to a LL or LLN is to gather enough PPE to just be able to cast the spell. This is because nearly all practioners of magic have a Base PPE of less then 400.

Where's it say that Archie's base is partially on a key line?
Or is that just a guess?

Killer Cyborg wrote:Where's it say that Archie's base is partially on a key line?
Or is that just a guess?

SB2, page 15, first paragraph under The Coming of the Mechanoids.

The Beast wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Where's it say that Archie's base is partially on a key line?
Or is that just a guess?

SB2, page 15, first paragraph under The Coming of the Mechanoids.

Thanks!
That's what I get for not checking before I post.

If you want to do some other checking for me, I seem to recall some dimension that doesn't have any ley lines in it.
Wormwood, maybe?
Or Eyelor?
Any idea?

According to page 44 of Wormwood, the living planet has no surface ley lines, but it is indicated that there are internal energy pathways that are equivalent to ley lines. It is suggested that the lack of surface ley lines has helped to isolate Wormwood from other dimensions, and that Eylor may have eluded discovery for the same reason.

According to page 75 of Skraypers, the planet Seeron has very weak ley lines, and it is implied that dimensional travelers can only exit the dimension via portals created at certain ancient megalith sites.

Page 167 of Splicers indicates that its world also has no ley lines, and is a magic dead zone.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:According to page 44 of Wormwood, the living planet has no surface ley lines, but it is indicated that there are internal energy pathways that are equivalent to ley lines. It is suggested that the lack of surface ley lines has helped to isolate Wormwood from other dimensions, and that Eylor may have eluded discovery for the same reason.

How far below the surface?
Because there are rifts to Wormwood in the books.
Where on Wormwood do they come out?

According to page 75 of Skraypers, the planet Seeron has very weak ley lines, and it is implied that dimensional travelers can only exit the dimension via portals created at certain ancient megalith sites.

Page 167 of Splicers indicates that its world also has no ley lines, and is a magic dead zone.

I forgot about Splicers.
Is there any official mention of people rifting to (or from) that world?

With respect to the OP, the description of Dimensional Portal spell lists the PPE cost at 1000 and half if on a ley line nexus. So I would assume you can cast it anywhere if you have enough PPE.

Killer Cyborg wrote:How far below the surface?
Because there are rifts to Wormwood in the books.
Where on Wormwood do they come out?

It doesn't say how far below the surface, just that "magic energy flows like blood through the veins, deep inside the planet" and is "most powerful underground in caves (including food caves), and rare subterranean passages." It also says that "places known to produce symbiotes, angels and Battle Saints are where the veins of energy are closest to the surface," so it would seem that the depth varies, but whether it's a matter of feet or miles is unclear.

Despite the weak flow of P.P.E. at the surface, the planet still hosts four permanent portals to Rifts Earth (connecting to Lalibela, Calgary, Romania, and Old Detroit), and a permanent rift to the demon goblins' and skelter bats' home planet. Furthermore, it is indicated that temporary/magical rifts are used both for travel to other dimensions and for travel around Wormwood itself (there's no mention of whether this sort of rifting has the "ley line bus stop" limitation described in RUE).

I forgot about Splicers.
Is there any official mention of people rifting to (or from) that world?

Not that I can find. Although the book contains conversion notes for characters coming from elsewhere, there's no mention of how such characters would actually get to the Splicers world, nor how they would leave. Of course, there's no indication that rifting in or out is impossible, either, although magic is severely handicapped in the setting (spells are half as effective but cost twice as much P.P.E., magic users lose half their personal P.P.E. and take three times longer to recover it, etc.).

Long Shadow wrote:With respect to the OP, the description of Dimensional Portal spell lists the PPE cost at 1000 and half if on a ley line nexus. So I would assume you can cast it anywhere if you have enough PPE.

Heh, forgot about that. It only appears in the HU and PF versions of the spell, but it's a useful rule to remember.

Thanks, Tinker!
Informative as always.

cornholioprime wrote:The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.

Every single city in Splynn has a pyramid in it. Being on/in a pyramid lets you tap the ley line/nexus it is on. You can bet for sure that Splugorth station troops on their pyramids, but that doesn't mean it's hard for a Raider to get there. Keep in mind these are creatures with D-phase Temporal magic spells. They can easily walk past any barricade (or maybe even underground) to bypass guardians, so long as they can evade magic fire that might hurt them while intangible. Unlike phase powers I don't remember reading that Temporal phase spells are hindered by force fields or magic circles.

cornholioprime wrote:In the same book (Rifts: Atlantis), the dimensional rift in the Azlum Asylum doesn't seem to be anchored to either a Ley Line or a Nexus.

Isn't the Azlum Asylum in a pyramid? Pyramids are generally built on ley lines or nexus points.

cornholioprime wrote:The technologically-created dimensional portals on Center don't seem to be located on ley lines or nexuses.

Why? We could just assume they were there. The cover of Phase World has a glowing thing separated by glass under the monster's feet which might be a nexus point harnessed by Prometheans.

We should keep in mind all Prometheans can Ley Line Phase. It's an odd ability to possess if you evolved on a planet without a large amount of Ley Lines.

cornholioprime wrote:There is no indication that regularly dimension-spanning creatures like Dragons and Nexus Deevils (see Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval) need to go to ley lines or nexuses in order to teleport.

Agreed, though it does beg the question of why they're called Nexus Deevils.

cornholioprime wrote:There are dozens if not hundreds of creatures like Gods, Demon/Deevil Lords and Dragons across the many books who have innate, dimension-spanning capabilities that apparently don't require ley lines or nexuses.

We should distinguish here: all these creatures have dimensional 'teleport' abilities. Teleport abilities not appearing to require nexus points wouldn't mean that dimensional 'portal' spells wouldn't need them.

cornholioprime wrote:Finally, there is no directly stated or implied requirement whatsoever that other spells such as Rift to Limbo, Dimensional Closet, Plane Skip and the like -other spells which ALSO create rifts to different dimensions -require the caster to locate Ley Lines/Nexuses.

Perhaps it only applies to the new 'Ultimate' version of the Dimensional Portal spell then, based on added flavour text?

If a new version of a spell or psionic doesn't agree with players, there's always the option of using earlier edition's rules. Sometimes the differences are so dramatic I think they should be treated as alternate dimensions. Just look at Satan vs. Sahtalus or the different versions of Aco's Juggernaught in PRPG vs. PFRPG2.

dragonfett wrote:Don't forget that random Rifts often open up on the lower levels of Center in Phase World, yet there is no mention of any Ley Lines/Nexus down there.

lol wut?

Phase World Page 20: The Rift Levels: 9-10, paragraph 3, sentences 3-4: "Another strange thing about these two levels is that they are criss-crossed with ley lines. Magicians in these levels will get all the benefits of being near a ley line and minor ley line nexuses occur every few blocks."

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:nearly all practioners of magic have a Base PPE of less then 400.

Forget base, even if a LLW had max PPE and was 15th level with 30PE, wouldn't they only have 130+180 = 310 PPE? Ley lines or lotsa friends are basically essential for normal spellcasters. Only class I can think of with enough PPE doesn't even cast spells, the summoner. Not even sure if FoM's high mage could swing it.

Killer Cyborg wrote:there are rifts to Wormwood in the books. Where on Wormwood do they come out?

There's that trading city halfway between the good and evil forces (forget the name) which has rifts/portals and I'm pretty sure that's aboveground, didn't mention them being in city's underground caves. Similarly, shifters both the Unholy and the Holy Terrors and neither mentioned doing it underground, I think they mentioned lairs/fortresses or something. Plus if we look at Salome the shifter (in the comic), she opens a portal to send demons to attack the heroes when they're clearly above-ground and not in a cave (although if she was in another dimension I expect she didn't stay there very long or her Eye Crawler would've died).

Also if we look at the Unholy + Legion's Black Abyss power, that sounds a lot like a rift or portal, and it mentions an extended duration at nexus points, meaning the normal duration applies when it's created anywhere else, implying it can be created anywhere. Though enough abyss at a nexus prevents random rifts so I'm not sure exactly what they are.

cornholioprime wrote:[*]The infamous Temporal Raiders that terrorize Splynn seem by the wording of the text to pop in and out wherever they want to. Presumably, if they could only open their D-portals on lines or at nexuses, it would be a much easier task for the Splugorth to permanently station troops at or near those locations.

They do. They also have pyramids on any and all nexus points in their cities. Their cities are built around them.


In short you can open one anywhere but random ones don't appear anywhere. It's just easier to open one on a Ley Line or Nexus because you get all that free PPE to use.

Ley Lines and Nexus Points are basically the weak spots in dimensions where such gates are likely to appear. Aim a D-Portal at a specific dimension but with no specific exit point (such as the Dimensional Portal spell), you are 99% likely to open up the portal on a nexus. The people on the other side might even experience it as a/or part of a rift.

To get a different result, specific magic is going to need to be employed.

I guess it depends on the magic strength of the world you are on, the rule then stands as relative

Tor wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:nearly all practitioners of magic have a Base PPE of less then 400.

Forget base, even if a LLW had max PPE and was 15th level with 30PE, wouldn't they only have 130+180 = 310 PPE? Ley lines or lots of friends are basically essential for normal spell casters. Only class I can think of with enough PPE doesn't even cast spells, the summoner. Not even sure if FoM's high mage could swing it.

There are practitioners of magic like Lizard Mages, and Adult Dragons that have more then 400 PPE in their base PPE, which is why the "Nearly all".

But is confused about why you miss-quoted me by quoting the sentence supporting the reason mages go to LL &LLN, just to make the same point I made in my post.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The reason for going to a LL or LLN is to gather enough PPE to just be able to cast the spell. This is because nearly all practitioners of magic have a Base PPE of less then 400.

Is you had just quoted both sentences, you could of gone. "Yep, I agree with this." and be done with it.

I read that, but mind was only working in terms of OCCs and supernatural beings utterly skipped my mind as being classed as a practitioner of magic Got distracted by the 'base'.

I feel like there should be some sort of distance (light years?) limit on this spell. The entire premise for the Thundercloud Galaxy book was the difficulty in communication, but the CCW could easily afford to get a shifter to use this spell (or the Shifter Ritual version) to go back and forth. Though, that doesn't solve the solution of having someone just DP from CCW Space to a different dimension and then from that dimension to the Thundercloud.

If you aren't choosing the "random" option, can you only target Dimensions/Planets you have previously been to? If so, then maybe each Galaxy counts as a different Dimension for purposes of this spell?

There should also probably be a tonnage limit. Otherwise the 20 light year limit per jump of the R-Drives don't make sense (as well as needing to be thousands of miles away from a planet).

C. Chopps

cchopps wrote:that doesn't solve the solution of having someone just DP from CCW Space to a different dimension and then from that dimension to the Thundercloud.

This gets worse when we think about the 'Astral Portal' spell (Between the Shadows) probably also existing in UWW space. A pair of astral portals are much cheaper than a dimensional portal and the brief delay of walking through an astral plane is probably worth the lower expense.

Then there are Pathways (Through the Glass Darkly) which probably also exist.

I imagine if the CCW began to incorporate this, their communications would take on some older-fashioned means, similar to the Dune universe where messages are sent via messengers on Spacing Guild's ships (Highliners) since the space-foldnig drive is faster than alternatives.

Didn't Titan teleport ability get a bonus at a nexus or ley-line? can't remember and Don't have books sorry if wrong.