THE TENTH LEGION

Athos · Unread post by **Athos** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:49 pm

40 trillion credits for 1 million soldiers...

that works out to like 40,000,000 credits a soldier doesn't it?

buy them all glitterboys and have 15 million a soldier left over.

hell, if you are going to be that ridiuculous, put Naruni super heavy force fields on all the gb's

and to truly be silly, make all your soldiers phaeton juicers inside GBs with force fields.

Faceless Dude · Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:01 pm

So you have a mercenary company that is primarily principled and scrupulous that engages in all manner of criminal activity?

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:11 pm

You've given them the equivalent of "Unlimited funding' *Shrugs* So they have what ever you want them to how ever you want them to have it.

What's the point?

Faceless Dude · Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:15 pm

Gen.blaze wrote:Really Athos, Is that all your brain can come up with? There is more that goes into the workings of any company. there is support personnel, ammo, food, and there are things out there that can be more powerful that the glitterboys.

Did you see the one under that that said some aberrant. Do you understand what the CIA does within and outside our country? they gather intelligence through all means necessary. i havent fully written everything out yet. i will get there. A full explination is to come.

Well, actually is says "a few aberrant but not many". So either you have a few evil people engaging in kidnapping for ransom, murder, human trafficking, and so on, which a scrupulous leadership would not put up with, or you have an aberrant leadership ordering these crimes, which your primarily good rank and file would not go through with.

Or you have a dark, secret arm of the for-hire mercenary group that does all these terrible things within this squeaky-clean army. If that's the case don't tell Sureshot you're doing it because he thinks there are enough of those organizations.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:36 pm

Faceless Dude wrote:[Well, actually is says "a few aberrant but not many". So either you have a few evil people engaging in kidnapping for ransom, murder, human trafficking, and so on, which a scrupulous leadership would not put up with, or you have an aberrant leadership ordering these crimes, which your primarily good rank and file would not go through with.

Or you have a dark, secret arm of the for-hire mercenary group that does all these terrible things within this squeaky-clean army. If that's the case don't tell Sureshot you're doing it because he thinks there are enough of those organizations.

Or they're ripe for 'corruption by good intentions'....a few very clever but evil folks in the right positions gradually corrupting the rest with a tweaked mission here, a little friendly fire incident there....a few incidents of getting soaked in the blood of innocents, and the next thing you know, either the whole organization is in the backpocket of Aerihman or they're engaged in civil war against each other. :twisted:

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:16 pm

Gen.blaze wrote:I am placing the informaion of this Corporation here to get help and feed back. Not to have all the nay sayers jump onto it. I am sharing what my group has built. You can take it and use it in your world as the good guys or bad guys. I don't really care which. This can give you a new enemy or ally for your group of players. If you just want to be a bunch of liberal hankie wavers and cry that your rights have been offended, well to bad. there is freedom of speech. we all have it whether it offends someone or not. I am not even finished putting everything in here. I havent even scratched the surface of everything and i am getting the whole thing shot down based on alignment. and money. i asked for ideas on something. i get people that wanna pick things apart and stupidity. wow..

Sometimes when one asks for feedback, the feedback is negative. I doubt anyone's trying to pick on ya man.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:21 pm

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
Gen.blaze wrote:I am placing the informaion of this Corporation here to get help and feed back. Not to have all the nay sayers jump onto it. I am sharing what my group has built. You can take it and use it in your world as the good guys or bad guys. I don't really care which. This can give you a new enemy or ally for your group of players. If you just want to be a bunch of liberal hankie wavers and cry that your rights have been offended, well to bad. there is freedom of speech. we all have it whether it offends someone or not. I am not even finished putting everything in here. I havent even scratched the surface of everything and i am getting the whole thing shot down based on alignment. and money. i asked for ideas on something. i get people that wanna pick things apart and stupidity. wow..

Sometimes when one asks for feedback, the feedback is negative. I doubt anyone's trying to pick on ya man.

Well...money is the root of all evil. Unlimited money opens the potential for unlimited evil.
So that's a serious hurtle to overcome.
But my scrutinies are based on cautious and pragmatic paranoia...an eye out for the snake lurking in the fig basket, a belief that any large and idealistic organization is going to be corrupted at some level, and that in Rifts, you have to look out for the dark side of what looks, on the surface, to be a great deal.

Hystrix · Unread post by **Hystrix** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:11 pm

Gen.blaze wrote:just wanting different ideas on how to organize and see how others would handle this endeavor. The money is not all that much. There are expenses running cities, paying salaries, all the equipment, supplies for said forces, housing. etc. etc. etc. When we started this Group all we had was the core book, source book one, mercenaries, triax and the NGR ,and the underseas book. we thought up everything else on our own. this was how we played for about two or three years. it wasn't until recently that after a 5 or 6 year lapse in playing that i have gotten all the books. Going back through all the stuff that we wrote up and did. it almost matches the timeline and things as they have happened. Which i thought was pretty cool and thought i would share with the community. Like i said i hope that you like it and get plenty of hours of play from it all.

It actually is all that much. THe monry your talking about is more than our national debt in Rifts Earth credits. It's likely more money than many MAJOR nations on Rifts Earth would ever see.

That and I think you need to go more in depth on the economy of the city state. If they have a million merc army (which is nearly unequaled in North America, save the CS), why are they benevolent? What are they doing with a million good guy mercs? Any really, Naurani? So they are a scrupulos organization that protects dirty arms dealers? Naurani is know for KILLING people who can't pay. Also, dosn't Naurani have there own internal protection (read Repo-Bots). Seems like Naurani would have to pay these guys more than they make on Rifts Earth, for the mercs to stay afloat.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:36 pm

Just for reference... look at this page... and multiply it by 40.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Just for reference... look at this page... and multiply it by 40.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

I'll pull the heavy freighter around to the ATM, while you make the withdrawal.

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:05 am

oh my they would destroy N.A.A.T ,N.A.M.ES., RUSSIAN MERCENARY CORE , AND THE MARINE ALLIANCE!!!!!!!! they beyond well funded!!!!!!!!they are bad a@#!!!!!

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:43 pm

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Just for reference... look at this page... and multiply it by 40.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

WOW
HOW can N.A.A.T ,N.A.M.ES., RUSSIAN MERCENARY CORE , AND THE MARINE ALLIANCE join in?

Slight001 · Unread post by **Slight001** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:53 pm

More importantly why are they still fighting? They are worth a 40 trillion and there are only a million of them... bloody hells people... Mercs are usually working for money not sitting on a major haul and still fighting... Seriously now why are these guys still fighting?

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:19 pm

Slight001 wrote:More importantly why are they still fighting? They are worth a 40 trillion and there are only a million of them... bloody hells people... Mercs are usually working for money not sitting on a major haul and still fighting... Seriously now why are these guys still fighting?

When Schlock Mercenary got a big windfall quite a few of the mercenaries promptly quit due to how much they made. Most will retire if they get a windfall since that's what they're fighting for anyway, the chance to retire and live a comfortable life.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:47 pm

Your creation is too big, too powerful and far too rich. You've made it 'UMBER' in a way that escapes it's purpose.

It's a merc company. If you divide their money by their number of people.

$40,000,000,000,000
by
1,000,000

Each person in the company is sitting on $40,000,000. ( I know it wouldn't break down 100% even it's an example) Why would they go out and risk their lives as merc? Each one is sitting on 40,000,000. "more money"? RIsk your life when you have that much?

Then you have to ask, "Who can afford a merc company, where the privates have $40,000,000?"

If they have 40 million a peice, how much are you paying for each troop on each job? You're talking about having to pay groups of multimillionairs to risk their lives. You're going to have to pay them as multi millionairs. I.E. A quarter, half, or million or more per man per mission. Who can afford that kind of mission?

And if you CAN pay large numbers of troops, a Million each to do something, how/why have you not just formed your own military at .... 1/1000th the cost?

Who can afford to hire a merc company that would take thousands of times more money to hire, than it would to form their own army? Why would they choose that?

The only people that could afford this would be planetary size. (( Maybe extremely wealthy nations, but the ones on Earth with enough money, have their own armies)) Those planetary type clients might hire them on for denighable assets but then your company's so umber and large they're going to be reconized for who they are.

Faceless Dude · Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:35 am

Well I think calling it a mercenary company (or a PMC) is understating things at this point. What you have here is Triax, but without an NGR. It necessarily a bad thing, but that's the scale you're operating on.

Now to poke more holes, because they need to be poked.
Whatever the name of your arms company was, it's doomed on north American soil, and here's why. You're selling cosmetically altered weapons based on Naruni tech. Even if it doesn't LOOK like a plasma cartridge rifle anymore, it's still going to use a plasma cartridge, and that's all the CS needs to see before it declares war on them and massacres them wherever they're found. And Norther Gun, Wellington, Wilk's, GAW, even the Black Market are going to help the CS do it. You know why? Because, as you said in your long post, THEY ARE BEING RUINED. You've made it in their best interests to help the CS make you go away. Congratulations. you've now given every technological power base in north america a common foe. And, because of mutual defense treaties, that will include Free Quebec and the NGR.

I also don't believe that the Naruni as written would allow anyone to produce knock offs of their merch, let alone develop their own lines of weapons based on their technology. There's either a campaign endgame where the Naruni will eventually end up owning the planet due to sme fine print you ne'er read or you're really dealing with Care Bears wearing Naruni suits.

Look, I'm not saying what your writing isn't interesting in itself, but it's one giant house rule. It's ignoring so much canon it's not so much as an add on to an existing campaign, but an invite to have everyone play in yours.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:37 am

I see your million man army, with it's 40 trillion credit surplus and my answer is.........

Rift opens, emerges the Battle cruiser Absolution of Caliban. After my initial lance battery assault and orbital bombardment, I deep strike the elite first company.

Bam, now you have the Deathwing in your city(Well whats left of it anyway) and one hundred elite Termy's.

Results?
You million man army is dead, your city is crushed to dust, and I lost maybe two termy's in the whole thing.
Go Dark Angels.....

Ok, now then seriously. A million man army, 40 trillion in credits....and the CS, Naurani, Splurgoth, Evil AI of the week hasn't decided to wipe you out? Seriously man, 40k reference aside, there's always a bigger fish out there, and when you start to get all big, they start looking at you like you're a nice tasty morsel. With that much extra cred whats to stop a Splurgy from rolling up with his vast armada and start taking pop shots at your bases? Can we say Orbital bombardment everyone?

The thing is with that much credit, and that much personal, you become a threat to everyone. Maybe not a big threat, but a threat nonetheless. And even if you have your forces spread out, you seem to have forgotten a few things......

On the West Coast, out by San Fran, you have the Tech-Indians to worry about. and they haven't got much love for the White/Black/Dbee man. So to build your base there, you were in enemy territory. Enemy territory thats armed with advanced nuclear subs, Power Armor, and the most awesome of robots( I love the Wolf Bot from Spirit West). And assuming your tech forces are strong enough, you have to also worry about the Tech Indians cousins, the Traditionalists. Totem warriors anyone? Spirit Warriors? How about Indian Ley Line Walkers, Shamans, Mystics, and other fun things. Oh and don't forget about Renegade and Tech indian Techno-wizards. Assuming that doesn't keep you busy enough, you have to worry about.....

The New Navy, which isn't very fond of none humans. They're not quite CS like in their Anti-Dbee thoughts, but they're close. Oh, and you have a navy to, so that makes you a threat to the New Navy, one that will result in their nifty Super-sub-carrier thing parking off the coast and attacking you, or at the very least spying on you.

And that doesn't even take into account the Kraken/monster of the Deep thing, with it's kilometer long tentacles, which probably smashed your base before you even built it.

And yes I saw how you had listed alliances with the Indians of the West, and the New Navy, but realistically how?

The Indians want to be left alone, and don't want anyone in their lands, white/black or whatever. They're racist like the CS, and the KKK, all rolled up into one nifty little package and sitting there going, 'no'.

and the New Navy isn't much better, but I'll give you that atleast the new navy does make alliances with outsiders. So lets skip my remarks on them.

You still have the undisputed masters of the Oceans, the Splurgoth. As well as their pets the Horune. So thats two foes that would have sought to stop you.

And all of these assumes that the CS doesn't learn about your little operation and say to itself.....Hmmm, I wonder if these guys are dangerous to us? answer? Yes!

You have aircraft flying around all over the place and eventually a CS radar operator is gonna see it and go, " Hey boss, lookit!"
Plus you have outposts in the freakin CS Territory! Odessa is a CS base! that ain't gonna fly. You have an outpost in El Paso, which also has a strong CS black ops presence. So all of this means, the CS knows who you are. and you've listed contracts with both the CS and FQ. Neither is going to be all buddy buddy. Once they figure out you got a million man army, and a larger surplus of cash then their national budgets, you become a target!

That means the CS is going to put you at the top of their 'lets kill these guys list'.

But it gets even better. You have an outpost....... In freaking Archie's house! What the frak is that? Thats crazy! The only force to do that is the mechanoids, and that's only cause they rifted into the place. So Archie would be gunning for you to.

And space Satellites? and a space station? Dude the powers in space would so be on you for that. Afterall they've essentially declared earth a 'containment zone' and don't let anything off it. If the CS and NGR can't put a satellite in orbit, then I seriously doubt your force would be able to.

And all of this is insignificant compared to the two main problems. 1 your 'army' has more money then god, and thus no reason to risk their lives for more. Not to mention they'd be completely unaffordable to any nation on earth, and most of the three galaxies.
2 You have a primarily good organization engaged in wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy to many illegal activities. Sure the leader might be an aberrant, do what I gotta to get by kinda guy, but the rest of the army isn't. Do you know what happens when this occurs? Mutiny. IE a change in leadership brought about by violent means.

So all in all the main problem is.......
It's just tooo unbelievable as per canon.

Tone it down. think realistically, and then put it up, and you'll find people are a lot more positive.

But I still go with one hundred Elite Termy's of the Deathwing for the win.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:56 am

LoL I thought you meant Deathwing from WoW came to eat their faces.

I was envisioning him just chowing down.

Mallak's Place · Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:39 am

After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:41 am

Pepsi Jedi wrote:LoL I thought you meant Deathwing from WoW came to eat their faces.

I was envisioning him just chowing down.

Nah to take him down I'd go with one Grey Knights Daemon hunter squad with Inquisitor

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:42 am

Mallak's Place wrote:After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Why is it you can never find a good gnomish accountant when you really need one?

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:09 pm

Gen.blaze are you trolling? Or are you serious with this stuff?

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:19 pm

Gen.blaze wrote:Now. Why all the negative questions wanting to poke holes in something that you will be able to use in your own campaigns or worlds?

It's called world-building. You gotta expect a few earthquakes, plagues of locusts, rivers of blood. nasty tropical diseases, and angry unhappy natives, unless your world is bald as a billard ball and just as interesting.

Me? Got my own megacompany, minions, and own merc-hiring policies.

Frankly I'd be rather alarmed by a group this size just squatting around doing nothing but small-fry contracting. That much power? I'd be CERTAIN they're going to give in to the temptation of power and smash some kingdom like the CS, and set themselves up as a nation state...and probably muck it all up in the process when they find their merc skills aren't very good for governance. Or their enemies start lining up to smash them now that they're pinned to a location(or worse yet, their enemies line up to smash, and they bug out, leaving the people they were ruling over behind to take the fallout).

Faceless Dude · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Your first descriptive post said this:

Gen.blaze wrote:The Tenth Legion is the largest Mercenary force on Rifts earth. Having over one million combat ready troop through out its Armed Forces. It can Be anywhere on Rifts Earth within 24 hours. Its symbol is the Bull. Having been built in secret, using other corporations and businesses as fronts. it is not widely known. Its small groups such as The Heavens Crusaders and Phoenix Company are more widely known. Only hiring out smaller sized units. This keeps them under the radar. That keeps the splurgoth in atlantis and the Coalition from getting to suspicious. The largest force hired out was to the New German Republic to help with the gargoyle invasions. The other troops are positioned around rifts earth to protect Legion assets or on smaller missions throughout the megaverse. Legionnaire Armaments is the main corporation of the 10th legion. Putting out superior arms, armor and combat vehichles. Which include power armor, robot combat vehicles, robot shock troops, heavy tanks, artillery, and anything a army needs to take the fight to his enemy. Using cutting edge technology from all over the megaverse. Legionnaire armaments is blowing the competition away. Every mercenary out there is flocking to get there hands on the stuff. Several small kingdoms and a few governments have placed long standing orders already. ( most of the stuff is from Naruni. It has just been changed cosmetically and the price has been discounted a little to flood the market. This pleases the True naruni agent that is over Rifts Earth. This is finacially ruining the other arms dealers on rifts earth. Especially the ones that had a hand in helping the coalition in finding his last salesmen and trying to destroy there operations on rifts earth.) The legion supplies protection to Naruni Enterprises on Earth. They help with the manufactoring and distribution of the new weapons throughout the planet. Also helping the naruni supply those that just want regular Naruni weapons and technology. The Main Naruni Warehouse is inside the mountain fortress of the 10th legion. The Naruni helped the 10th Legion place a gate that goes straight to the city of Center on Phase Worl inside the Mountain Stronghold. Wolf Industries Is the construction salvage arm of the 10th Legion. Salvaging hundreds of billions worth of precious metals and jewels. plus the pre-rifts artifacts that have been found throughout rifts earth that have been just waiting to be discovered. Wolf Industries has brought in overa trillion dollars in profits.

Emphasis mine.

And now, you're posting this:

Gen.blaze wrote:Also do you think I would start something like this and not include magic? Are you crazy? We have included psionics as well. We can fight on any front and any enemy. The black market is paid very well for all the stuff they have brought us from all over the world. GAW loves working with our tech guys and improving there upgrades for there line of stuff they are a great labor force. They are also paid well for acquiring stuff for us.

Emphasis again mine.
Which is it? Are the other arms companies being ruined financially? Or are they all in bed with your corp?

Mech-Viper Prime · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:50 pm

The GM guide isn't the Sears Christmas Book!

Mech-Viper Prime · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:51 pm

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Gen.blaze are you trolling? Or are you serious with this stuff?

I think he is serious.

Ziggurat the Eternal · Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:15 pm

well, sorry you can't take the criticism blaze, but the stuff you posted is grossly out of line with cannon, which is what you are being measured against. It doesn't make sense. It's kind of downright silly, and none of us can see how any of this could have possibly happened. It directly contradicts the cannon setting we base all our games off of, and some common sense, in many ways and many of them feel contrived.

You posted for the public expecting feedback, as it just so happens, feedback isn't always positive. You have yours. and the reason people are "so negative about something they can use in their campaigns" is because we can't. it couldn't exist in ours.

Also arguments about the real world and experience and such are pretty worthless on this board. you're better off not making them.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:37 pm

Gen.blaze wrote:Let's see, your battlecruiser would crash and burn the minute it rifted into earths atmosphere. It is not capable of atmospheric flight. All your termy's would die and the legion would be picking up the scrap and reverse engineering there tech. Don't your read the novel's. Uriel Ventris of the ultra marines is a basses but can still easily die. I like the spacewolves myself. But I don't play warhammer 40k.

Here we go again. Remember. In sourcebook one? The little adventure stuff that led you to the compound were Archie was? Archie escapes? Not when there is no phone lines for him to transfer all his data to a different area. Remember he can be found and taken care of. Well he was taken care of. The place has been moved a listening out post is there. Wow you guys have no imagination.

The Tenth Legion is a secret. They have fronts that handle everything. Read people. The legion has mages and a few super heroes. All types of occ's. Along with a star fleet that would eat a battle cruiser from 40k for breakfast. Roll in from the three galaxies from center with said fleet and the starving barely surviving space stations in orbit won't want to fight ****. KLS was the first to jump in with us. Bring gifts to starving people that have been stuck in a he'll hole they with think you are a saint.

The contracts with people are through companies other than the tenth legion. Phoenix technologies and wolf industries mostly. The indians would have never fought the white man in the first place if they would not have been cheated and there land stolen dumba$$. we are not near any of there lands look at maps provided in these forums. There is the whole western half of this country is barren. Nothing and no body out there. The Indians are traded with and helped when they need it. There are not that many of them.

Do you understand how many crooks that we have ruling our government and all the illegal **** that goes on that you never see? You have all kinds of press and people watching everyones back. That **** doesn't happen in rifts earth. The CS doesn't have the capabilities to even spot a plane that far away. Much less one of the Legions planes. Like you said. They don't have the satellites in orbit to do that. They can barely talk to each other using radios.

Welcome
To the New Roman Empire!!!!!!

Man there's so many holes in your plot, we could fly the Absolution of Caliban through one! :lol:

Butttt first.... I gotta go off topic a moment.

No, your fleet would not beable to defeat a 40K battle cruiser. The reason is pretty damn simple. 40K Space battles happen at distances that just aren't even figured into anything in Rifts/Three Galaxy's/Phase world. For example, a lance battery has a range of 1AU. Thats the distance between the earth to the sun. So there wouldn't be any reason to go into Earths Atmosphere to begin Orbital Bombardment, it would be far more efficient to take up Lunar Orbit and just sniper your city with a Lance Battery, which would leave a crater roughly the size of Texas in the earths crust. Add in a Battle Cruisers Laser Turrets, Anti-Ship Torpedo's, Nova Missiles(So named because they have the equivalent explosive power of a Nova) Void Shields( think micro blackholes, kinda like the Vong from star wars), Astrotelpathica, and the space marines themselves with their boarding craft, and an enemy fleet that isn't a 40k fleet doesn't stand a snow balls chance in hell. Even against a single ship, a Rifts/Three Galaxy Fleet is about the same as the Rebel fleet agasint a fully functional and shielded Death Star.
Yes I read the 40K novels, I have most of them, as well as Play 40k, Deathwatch, Dark Heresy,Rogue Trader, Battle Fleet Gothic and Epic 40k, so I'm pretty sure that my understanding of the 40k universe is a bit more then yours. I've also been into 40k and Games Workshop since the beginning, when their wasn't even a background for it

And just FYI, the Dark Angels 1st company, AKA the Deathwing destroys worlds. That is advanced alien(Xenos) societies by the BILLIONS. In 40k, 100 Terminators would be the equivalent of millions of Orks/Eldar/Dark Eldar/Etc. To put a Terminator in rifts terms.....
Imagine a Mega Juicer, combined with a godling, and then put him in a Ultramax suit, but upgrade it with TW features, and then make all of that Giga-damage, and you get close to what a hundred terminators in Rifts earth would be like.

Now then, back on topic
Remember Sourcebook 2? You know the mechanoids? Remember how it essentially says that the adventure in Sourcebook one didn't happen? Or if it did, it happened at a false Aberdeen, and not the actual Aberdeen Proving grounds? Plot Hole 1

Any group that works for so many people, even through front companies will be discovered. The CS has ten times the people, and a thousand times the resources to do just that, prevent the sudden apperance of hostile forces that could endanger the CS. And you've worked for them, through a Corporation, on a planet where the number of Corps can be counted on two hands. You have an outpost in a CS base(thats Odessa btw, look for it in Rifts Lone Star) and another in El Paso(Where the CS maintains a large Black Ops/Intelligence operations.) Plot hole 2.

The Indians don't like anyone that's not Native American (Spirit West for the low down on that one.) None Native folk live pretty much in fear that the Indians will get tired of them, and wipe them out(New West/Spirit West for the details on that one.) Furthermore the 'maps' of the West only show you the Reservations. Not the migrations of the Native Americans(Remember they've mostly returned to the old ways of hunting and gathering, even for tribes that didn't do that). All of the west, and alot of the east is their land. In Spirit West we only get told where four Tech Reservations are, but it tells us that their are dozens of others spread throughout the west(Yeah, I know it's rifts so the books always have to contradict each other.) so thats plot hole 3.

The Naurani don't deal with anyone in a friendly manner. They're the Multiverses version of a sleezy carsalesman, Loan Shark, and Lawyer all rolled into one. If you copy their tech(Which you say you have.) they come to your house, enslave your people, and kill anyone who resists. No if's ands or Buts about it. There's a reason the Splurgoth haven't bothered to do so when they happily ripe everyone else off in the Multiverse. Plot Hole 4.

The West isn't 'Barren or lifeless' this is a fiction that the CS spreads to keep people from going out there. While it's true you won't find many large cities, you will find thousands of small towns, villages, and cities out there. Look at New West for the details. Add in Spirit West, Lone Star, and Arzno, along with the Vampire Kingdoms to get the overall picture. Some one somewhere would have seen your city, and told others. So secret you are no more. Plot hole 5.

The black Market. Sigh. why does everyone assume that a criminal organization that cares only about it's bottom line gives a rats butt about their player group? Yes you might be one of their best customers, but when push comes to shove, like say when the CS Black Ops/ISS/CIA comes knocking they'll sell you out so fast it would make your head spin. Plot hole 6

Radar: If you seriously think the CS lacks the Radar capability to detect things flying over Cali, or New York, then I'm not going to bother explaining how wrong you are. Plot hole 7

Hacking Archie? Another one of those I'm not going to bother to explain how wrong this idea is. Sentient Computer anyone? Plot Hole 8

As far as we know, the Black Market isn't a global institution. Dealings with the Black Market in North America doesn't translate into a good relationship with the Black Market in any other part of the World. It's important to understand that the Black Market is a blanket term, like D-bee. Second, there are places on Rifts Earth that most people know nothing about, Black Market included. So how could they steal you bots, armor, and tech from say China? Japan? Aussie? Russia? The NA Black Market doesn't even know about those places, and the CS/FQ/NGR/Lazlo have only the barest idea about them. Plot Hole 9.

Two copies of the USS Ticonderoga you say? Yeah, the New Navy would probably dislike that idea intensely. If they couldn't defeat you, guess who could? and you wonder how the CS finds out about you. Plot Hole 10.

Specialty Ammo you say? So like Genetically imprinted? Nano-tech? So you have a better understanding of Genetics then say the CS, or that lab in South America, or those Gene guys that make all the monsters? I can think of a dozen different nations/Entities that would ensure your units death to be rid of this. Plot Hole 11.

thats eleven plot holes, and I wasn't even trying.
Like I said, tone it down, make it realistic, and people will respond more positive.

Mech-Viper Prime · Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:55 pm

Ravenwing wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Why is it you can never find a good gnomish accountant when you really need one?

Hey that is a coalition states top secret , how did you find that out?

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:01 pm

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Why is it you can never find a good gnomish accountant when you really need one?

Hey that is a coalition states top secret , how did you find that out?

I'm a chaplain in the CS Army, it's my business to know these dirty little secrets in my duty of purging the unclean xenos from our hallowed halls. :lol:

Mech-Viper Prime · Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:15 pm

Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Why is it you can never find a good gnomish accountant when you really need one?

Hey that is a coalition states top secret , how did you find that out?

I'm a chaplain in the CS Army, it's my business to know these dirty little secrets in my duty of purging the unclean xenos from our hallowed halls.

Tom isn't unclean , he washes every day and eats lunch with Karl on Fridays .

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:18 pm

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:After the trans-dimensional accountant I hired embezzled all the Legions Funds I was left with a 12 year old with a squirt gun… I’m moving the operation to Mexico.

Why is it you can never find a good gnomish accountant when you really need one?

Hey that is a coalition states top secret , how did you find that out?

I'm a chaplain in the CS Army, it's my business to know these dirty little secrets in my duty of purging the unclean xenos from our hallowed halls.

Tom isn't unclean , he washes every day and eats lunch with Karl on Fridays .

Thats not Karl, it's an android look alike.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:20 pm

You know, I think I'll write up a more realistic write up for the Tenth Legion. Maybe if we show Blaze a more canon plot for his legion he'll understand where we're all coming from in our negativity.

Mech-Viper Prime · Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:20 pm

Ravenwing wrote:You know, I think I'll write up a more realistic write up for the Tenth Legion. Maybe if we show Blaze a more canon plot for his legion he'll understand where we're all coming from in our negativity.

Sounds good to me

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:31 pm

Ravenwing wrote:You know, I think I'll write up a more realistic write up for the Tenth Legion. Maybe if we show Blaze a more canon plot for his legion he'll understand where we're all coming from in our negativity.

Go for it; I've given him my own (quick) suggestions for presenting mega-companies/alternate worldline canon-busters in a more dynamic and gritty manner.
Let's put the 'construct' in CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:34 pm

Ok then, one multidimensional Merc unit coming up.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:21 pm

Ok here's the basic outline of the unit, as per the Merc book. I've kept the million man personal, but divided it as per the Merc book.

The Tenth Legion:

Size: #6 Large Mercenary Army, Multi Dimensional. 500 Points + 20 for Vehicles and + 20 for Budget. **
1,000,000 Total personal broken down into 400,000 Combat Troops, 600,000 Support staff(Cooks, medical staff, administrators, mechanics, etc.)
Note: No nation on Rifts Earth could afford to hire this army. Thus it divides it's units and hires them out in smaller numbers, typically this will range from Platoon, to Battalion sized Operations.

A:Sponsorship:
#1: None Independent: Add ten points wherever desired.

B: Outfits:
# 6 Unlimited clothing – 50 Points.

C: Equipment:
# 6 Magical Tech, #7 High Tech Augmentation, #8 Unlimited Equipment: -130 Points

D: Vehicles:
# 6 Unlimited Vehicles -30 Points ( 50 points base – 20 Points bonus from Unit Size, 30 Points total)

E: Weapons, Power Armor, and Bots:
# 6 Maximum Firepower -50 Points (60 points base – 10 bonus from independent sponsorship. 50 points total).

F: Communications:
# 6 Superior Communications – 40 Points.

G: Internal Security:
# 6 Impregnable: - 60 points

H: Permanent Base:
# 6 Company City: New San Francisco – 60 points

I: Intelligence Resources:
# 3 Special Military Operatives(IE Spies), #4 Magic and Psionic Operatives, #5 Dbee Operatives. -50 points

J: Special Budget:
# 4 Large Loans, budget of 1 million for special ops. -5 Points ( 25 point base-20 for bonus for size. 5 points total.)

K: Alignment:
# 6 Principled and Scrupulous. -10 Points.

L: Criminal Activity:
None.

M: Reputation/Credentials:
# 3 Unknown -5 points. ( I chose this option since I figured the unit does it's best to stay off the radar of the big powers, such as the CS, NGR, and Atlantis. Also points wise this was the only viable option.)

N: Salary
# 4 Good Salary -10 points.

Totals: 500 points.

Grell · Unread post by **Grell** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:34 pm

That looks a LOT better, Ravenwing.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:52 pm

Now then the above post assumes a few things.

1) New San Fransisco is built from prefabricated buildings, heavily fortified, and focused entirely on the needs of the unit. This also assumes that most of the personal at the Base are busy with it's defense from angry Native Americans, The Kraken, and the New Navy. Furthermore it assumes that the unit does possess a basic Navy coast guard, as part of it's on defenses. These units would be using commonly available ships in North America, so Iron Heart Ships, along with a few Generic ones from Rifts Underseas. This 'fleet' is covered by the Unlimited Vehicles feature, and the Internal Security feature. Furthermore this fleet isn't for hire and is essentially a none issue in the units overall Roll of Battle.

2) Because of the location of the base, and the units attempts to avoid detection, it isn't widely known, and smaller units that are hired out use an Alias, most often a nickname such as the 15th Assault Company, the Blood Angels. As such CS intelligence operatives, as well as Free Quebec do have some intelligence on the unit, just not the overall organization.

3) The Unit keeps intelligence assets in Old Bones, the Chi-town Burbs, El Paso, Merctown, Arzno, and the Colorado Baronies. This ties up a significant amount of the units intelligence assets. Further units are posted on Phaseworld, and the Three Galaxies.

4) Due to it's transdimensional mission profile, it is assumed that the unit maintains a small barracks/office in Center, and throughout the Three Galaxies. These are most likely of a Battalion sized detachments, but would include support personal, and security personal as well. These sub-offices would have security as described in Rifts Merc for field operations, or two levels lower then the main base. Also, it could be assumed that they possess at least a few Troop Transports, Corvettes, and perhaps a destroyer or two as a space Navy. However this fleet remains in the Three Galaxy/Phase world dimensions, and Rifts opened by the Unit's shifters from the main base in San Fran allows them to rotate personal. This space fleet could possibly be covered by the units unlimited Vehicle category. Of course it's equally plausible that the unit negotiates transport for it's units to and from the battlefield through their employers. Of the two options I would personally assume that transport to and from a battlefield was part of the units contract.

5) It is also assumed that the unit engages in significant battlefield salvage operations, this ensuring they have unlimited Vehicles, bots, and gear. Like many Merc units, the Tenth Legions gear, while well maintained and repaired, has a rough appearance, and isn't 'shiny' like say the CS or NGR.

Ok thats all I got for tonight.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:20 am

Looks a lot leaner, meaner, tighter, faster, and grittier. :bandit:

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:07 am

That was my goal. Remove the house rule bloat, spin in a little logic, and rinse with some nods to canon.

Result: One fully functional, canon based, multi-dimensional Merc unit with a million personal.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:49 pm

I thought my write up explained why the CS, NGR, New Navy, Atlantis, and other powers of Rifts Earth aren't gunning for the Legion. It also explains how they're surviving in hostile territory, and assumes that the unit engages the Native Americans alot, hence it's high security rating, which could probably be best thought of as a Garrison Force.

Now of coarse the Unit's Coast Guard unit doesn't go far from it's home waters, I'd personally think that it would confine itself to perhaps a radis of a few dozen miles or so. It could also be assumed that New San Fransico is built on some sort of island, sort of like a mini CS fortress city, but with pre-fabricated MDC walls, and buildings. Given the danger of the Reachers from the Deep(The Kraken thingy) I'd also assume that the city had some sort of automated Torpedo, Missile, and Railguns along it's walls, and as part of it's Harbor/Shipyards defenses.

I'd guess that it's possible that New San Fran has some contact with the New Navy, or Tritonia, but I'd doubt it would be significant. This would probably be limited to some sporadic trade, giving the Legion access to some of the Tritonian weapons, armor and gear, but only those items commonly available on the open market. I'd also assume that some effort to salvage the ruins of old San Fransisco were underway, but more then likely this would be a minor operation, perhaps a dozen Rogue Scientists, scholars, operators and PA pilots involved in the effort. I make this assumption on the fact that I see the unit spending most of it's time and resources on keeping the city secure, food cultivation, repairs, and other day to day operations of a military.

As to Space Assets, I do think it's likely that the unit would have access, and own a few dropships IE an armored shuttlecraft of some sort. This inturn would be moved to the engagement zones by their employers, and be included in their contracts.

Mech-Viper Prime · Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:15 pm

Nice write up, good job

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:17 pm

I find it a little funny that all of you are so concerned with how well his organization fits with canon even though you know that any game world that has existed for 10+ years is going to diverge wildly from canon thanks to two things:
1. the actions of the players over time can seriously impact the world (didn't he say the group defeated Archie?)
2. canon that was published after the game started that the GM wasn't interested in integrating

--flatline

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:51 pm

flatline wrote:I find it a little funny that all of you are so concerned with how well his organization fits with canon even though you know that any game world that has existed for 10+ years is going to diverge wildly from canon thanks to two things:
1. the actions of the players over time can seriously impact the world (didn't he say the group defeated Archie?)
2. canon that was published after the game started that the GM wasn't interested in integrating

--flatline

It has to do with Canon and logic really.

A million plus man army, with a 40 trillion credit surplus is a little unbelievable.

But what has us all focused on Canon is that he asked us for our opinion's and feedback, hence all the focus on it.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:13 pm

It's not a little unbelievable. It's down right full out stupid.

The US national debt, currently, from the start till now, only stands at 15.6 trillion. That means this one mercenary company, with one 1/311th the number of people, has almost 3 times the amount of money in their coffers, as the US national debt. The one merc company could pay off the US national debt, TWICE and still have nine TRILLION dollars left.

That's stupid amounts of money. It's basically "Unlimited everything, Any way you want it, any time you want it,"

The original creator doesn't have a concept of what a million is, and surely no concept of what a Trillion is.

"An inter-dimensional mercenary company" Eh.. ok. Not a horrible concept in and of itself.

As presented, it's just a very very lose frame work for "We can take out anything in the books ever" Type of thing.

Mech-Viper Prime · Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:33 pm

I blame the south America books for that certain merc company

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:05 pm

Pepsi Jedi wrote:It's not a little unbelievable. It's down right full out stupid.

The US national debt, currently, from the start till now, only stands at 15.6 trillion. That means this one mercenary company, with one 1/311th the number of people, has almost 3 times the amount of money in their coffers, as the US national debt. The one merc company could pay off the US national debt, TWICE and still have nine TRILLION dollars left.

That's stupid amounts of money. It's basically "Unlimited everything, Any way you want it, any time you want it,"

The original creator doesn't have a concept of what a million is, and surely no concept of what a Trillion is.

"An inter-dimensional mercenary company" Eh.. ok. Not a horrible concept in and of itself.

As presented, it's just a very very lose frame work for "We can take out anything in the books ever" Type of thing.

I was trying to be polite there PJ.

Hence I said ' A little unbelievable.'

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:13 pm

Well I'm not being mean to him. Or trying to be impolite. Just direct. I don't think the poster is stupid himself. I just think it's a stupid amount of money to give an in game group. If you're that rich, you don't risk your life fighting podunk battles for people hiring on mercenaries. Nor can you be anywhere near the smallest fraction of that badass and be 'unknown' but still pulling in Forty TRILLION dollars.

Scale it back by a few orders of magnitude.

Gamer · Unread post by **Gamer** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:35 pm

I don't see this nightmare thread lasting.
Nothing productive is obviously going to come from this thread and can only see it going down in flames.
If the OP had been paying even the slightest bit attention to the threads in this forum he would have seen this negative feedback coming light years away.
The negative feedback does not give you license to fire both barrels of insults, if you think it does don't expect to be here long.
With over 400 views and few replies one should realise that most of the members of the forum aren't replying to this thread for a reason, you should count yourself lucky that your getting the replies you have so far.