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I've been working on an update the Temporal Wizard O.C.C. in order to bring it "in line" with the mage updates that occurred in Rifts Ultimate Edition. The last thing I think I need to accomplish for the write is a review of the starting spells.

Currently, the Temporal Wizard starts with the following spells, based on his or her starting level of experience (Temporal Magic is italicized):

After six year initiation:
Level 1: See the invisible, Sense magic
Level 2: Befuddle, Chameleon, Detect concealment
Level 3: Armor of Ithan
Level 4: Fool’s gold
Level 6: Teleport: lesser, Tongues
Level 8: See dimensional anomaly
Level 10: Time maelstrom
Level 14: Close Rifts
Level 15: Dimensional Portal
Plus seven Temporal Magic spells of choice and four conventional magic spells of choice (any level)

After ten years of servitude:
All spells and selections from the first six years, plus the following
Level 5: Escape
Level 7: D-Phase, Time warp: send
Level 10: Dimensional Pockets
Level 15: Teleport: superior
Select an additional spell of choice (any level), for a total now of five.

After fourteen years of servitude:
All spells and selections from the first ten years, plus the following
Level 4: Shadow meld
Level 6: Time slip
Level 8: Sense dimensional anomaly
Level 10: Time warp: fast forward
Select an additional spell of choice (any level), for a total now of six.

In Rifts Ultimate Edition, the Shifter O.C.C. (as an example) received 13 new spells to start: Calling, Compulsion, Dimensional Being, Dimensional Portal, Energy Bolt, Energy Field, Exorcism, Repel Animals, Re-Open Gateway, Sense Evil, Summon and Control Rodents, Sustain, and Tongues. 4 of the spells they used to get were removed: Chameleon, Sense PPE, Concealment, Summon Lesser Being.

I'd like to collect thoughts and opinions on what spells may still be relevant and should stay as-is, what spells may need to be removed (and maybe replaced with something else), and what spells (if any) would make sense to be added.

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

I personally feel that the Techno-Wizard doesn't need additional starting spells. Going strictly by the rules in RUE, a techno-wizard can learn any branch of spellcraft except for Circle Magic and Summoning. We include Elemental magic in that, since it's treated more like granted religious sorcery.
Although having some actual choices in their starting spell lineup would be nice. I think they are the only spellcasting class that starts with a purely static spell list.

wyrmraker wrote:I personally feel that the Techno-Wizard doesn't need additional starting spells. Going strictly by the rules in RUE, a techno-wizard can learn any branch of spellcraft except for Circle Magic and Summoning. We include Elemental magic in that, since it's treated more like granted religious sorcery.
Although having some actual choices in their starting spell lineup would be nice. I think they are the only spellcasting class that starts with a purely static spell list.

Except that this thread is about Temporal Wizards and not Techno-wizards. And I don't remember seeing in the Techno-wizard description where they can learn any branch of magic, but I do remember seeing where they could work with other casters to incorporate spells they couldn't cast themselves.

of the early caster classes i have to say that the temporal wizard has held up insainly well assuming your only lv1
Currently, the Temporal Wizard starts with the following spells, based on his or her starting level of experience (Temporal Magic is italicized):

After six year initiation:
Level 1: See the invisible, Sense magic
Level 2: Befuddle, Chameleon, Detect concealment
Level 3: Armor of Ithan
Level 4: Fool’s gold
Level 6: Teleport: lesser, Tongues
Level 8: See dimensional anomaly
Level 10: Time maelstrom
Level 14: Close Rifts
Level 15: Dimensional Portal
Plus seven Temporal Magic spells of choice and four conventional magic spells of choice (any level)

you start with 13 pre-chosen and 11 extra's. thats 24 spells!!! plus you can learn them by buying more in magic centric citys and all the classic ways, and you have acess to diminsonal portal and 4d being at lv1, and you are one of the few classes that can roll back time, and and and....as it stands the shifter has few starting spells but can summon creatures to his aid. also if you merg/align/make a pact with a god of magic i think its like 13 extra spells extra ppe and better saves. thats all gravy there.
the shifter totaly decked to the gills throwing background and the concequences of worshiping/owing a god of magic is better off than a temporal wizard at lv1.
but the T-wizard has some swank spells to start , a decent pool of ppe, has travled other diminsions before lv1, if he or she parted well with their old leader can probaly call them up and ask a befudeling question now and then with out being a royal pain and maybe even for free if its an interesting question to the temporal raider.

Personaly I wouldnt change it. I think their gear could use a minor update, but thats pretty minor.

Unless I missed the point and your saying the t-wizard is to powerful?
In which case I'll say the assumed rarity (at least to me) is partially why they get more than your run of the mill shifter (if you can call any Mage run of the mill)!

Thanks for your input.

No problem. I clicked your link about your update, I agree with the perception bonus, I like the sense rift incoming out going ability but the increase in ppe might be a tad to much in my mind as they more than just about any other mage class know how to work with a team, thus they probably take ppe sharing to new levels. They cruised around with a dimensional being other mages and t-warriors and are probably masters at finding alternate ppe sources.

When I attempted to update the Temporal Wizard to RUE standards, I decided not to change the starting spells since even though some that they automatically get are real stinkers, they do get a fair amount and the 4 invocations of choice from all levels is already a huge advantage. I also figured that they start with enough money to be able to buy some low level spells during character creation to help round out their abilities.

I did make some additions to their OCC skills to bring them more in line with RUE.

First off, I noted that Literacy and Sensor Instruments were implied by being prerequisites of Navigation. Then I noticed that Astronomy was missing from RUE, so I replaced it with Astronomy & Navigation (that seemed more in character than Astrophysics). Then I noted that the other OCCs all got more skills than in RMB, so I added another literacy and lore:dimensions and lore:magic since that was similar to what the Shifter got and seemed in line with the OCC theme.

To sum up the changes:
Astronomy & Navigation -- replaced Astronomy
Sensor Instruments (+5) -- implied by Navigation
Literacy:Native (+20) -- implied by Sensor Instruments
Literacy:Other (+20) -- new
Lore: Dimensions (+20) -- new
Lore: Magic (+30) -- new

Other OCCs got some neat and useful OCC abilities added in RUE. You should think up something unique and in character for the Temporal Wizard. One thing I added to the OCC was that the rate they age is divided by their level so a level 5 TW ages one year for every 5.

Finally, Temporal Wizards had more starting PPE than any other mage when they came out (20 more than a LLW), so if you want to keep things balanced the way they were when WB3 was published, you should bump their starting PPE to at least 3D6x10+40, but I feel that is a bit excessive and diminishes the LLW's new "thing" about being more in tune with PPE than other casters, so I would give them a lower upper bound than the LLW (3d4x10+60 seems like a good compromise)

--flatline

Many apologies. My brain must have misfired when I saw the thread title.

Their starting spell list is basically fine in my opinion. Spells I could justify adding or "re-examining": Locate, Mystic Portal, Magic Pigeon, Time Slip, D-Step, Energy Sphere, Sense Time (psi), Sense Magic (psi), Sense Evil (psi), Wink Out (is this even a spell?), Remote Viewing, Object Read, Retro Viewing

Nothing TOO major...

All of the temporal spells you just listed they can take as their 7picks. I think if anything at 14 years of service let them pick 1 or 2 spells from say blue flame or necromancy or other obscure tradition kinda as a throw out for the likely insanity

Zamion138 wrote:All of the temporal spells you just listed they can take as their 7picks. I think if anything at 14 years of service let them pick 1 or 2 spells from say blue flame or necromancy or other obscure tradition kinda as a throw out for the likely insanity

I think that would be a house rule to let them choose Time-Slip or other regular invocations as part of their 7 Temporal Magic picks since, as far as I know, only the spells listed in WB3 (and some new ones in Fleets of the 3 Galaxies) officially qualify as temporal magic.

But I'd love to be wrong. Time Slip in particular is better than most Temporal Magic spells and seems appropriate to the class.

--flatline

Time Slip is granted at the 14 years of servitude mark. There's some interesting ideas here for not only the spells, but also class abilities. Good stuff to think about.

*personally* I would see spells like Time Slip, and Dimensional Portal as 'Temporal Spells' that have gotten mainstreamed. Eg if a given spell that COULD be learned by others, gets common enough, and passed around enough it becomes a 'common' spell. So the spells that are normall invocations that deal with time or dimensions, are just temporal magic that got out from the control of the temporal classes....perhaps why they dont like to teach the spells, they dont want any OTHER spells getting into the general pool.......

dragons and gods has at least one new temporal spell as well if i rember right

As I recall, the spell in Dragons and Gods was a Dragon exclusive spell that was basically a longer-duration Temporary Time Hole spell, that was meant to be an inter-dimensional personal sanctuary. It has some weird rules regarding how time flows in that space, and Dragons pretty much never teach anyone who isn't a Dragon that spell.

There is also mention in Woormwood that the 'Dark Abyss' spell can be learned by shifters and temporal mages.

eliakon wrote:There is also mention in Woormwood that the 'Dark Abyss' spell can be learned by shifters and temporal mages.

that spell is real real potent too. good golly id hate have it droped on one of my pc's

eliakon wrote:There is also mention in Woormwood that the 'Dark Abyss' spell can be learned by shifters and temporal mages.

No, only high level temporal raiders or wizards can learn it. Shifters and Temporal Warriors can escape from it, but they can't learn it.

Tor wrote:

eliakon wrote:There is also mention in Woormwood that the 'Dark Abyss' spell can be learned by shifters and temporal mages.

No, only high level temporal raiders or wizards can learn it. Shifters and Temporal Warriors can escape from it, but they can't learn it.

They have to be level 13 to learn it. And even those who can escape from it, it takes days to do so! All I can say is wow.

Raiders can escape instantly

Also, I think the time/percentage for escape is just using raw OCC ability. I imagine anyone with a 'dimensional portal' spell or teleport ability might be able to escape that way. Not entirely sure though.

I guess the question is: can Wizards/Raiders puzzle this out on their own, or do they need a Host to teach them?

My personal call would be that they can research it, but you cant just take it as your level up spell. It *IS* a temporal spell though so get to 13 and you should have enough mastery to figure it out. Of course you would have to know it exists first. Of course I would also personaly allow any OTHER temporal class of aproximatly equal scope to learn it at lv 13 (promethian time masters are an example, they of course came after Wormwood so its not canon, just my feeling that they should be on the short list of those that can) Using the whole temporal wizards can, but temporal warriors and shifters can't to do the sorting.

But really this is one of those things that really requires a GMs call, a spell/ability this powerful will need to be considered before inclusion in most games. And it will also depend on how the GM views the nature of the spell and temporal magic in their game. Some GMs might decide this really is connected to the prision of the host, and require you learn it from them, others might decide its just a variation of the standard temporal prison spells (perhaps a lesser 'training' version of the legendary prisions beyond time and space we all know about) and that anyone skilled enough can learn it.

eliakon wrote:others might decide its just a variation of the standard temporal prison spells (perhaps a lesser 'training' version of the legendary prisions beyond time and space we all know about)

I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to with these temporal prison spells and legendary prisons. Could you elaborate?

Glistam wrote:

eliakon wrote:others might decide its just a variation of the standard temporal prison spells (perhaps a lesser 'training' version of the legendary prisions beyond time and space we all know about)

I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to with these temporal prison spells and legendary prisons. Could you elaborate?

its in wormwood the unholy section has the spell described that is containing them. it can be learned by high level casters if you can find some one will to teach it.

I meant the other spells the poster is referring to.

Glistam wrote:I meant the other spells the poster is referring to.

check misunderstood, maybe the spell that is holdiong the old ones at bay??