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Just curious about opinions on this...

Atlantis.

Hubris.

KS's eraser?

Kyron's squadron. (1st ed. RT. Can't say the same for the same squadron from 2nd ed.)

On Rifts Earth? I think the NGR could. Atlantis most definitely could. Archie might. Once we get off Rifts Earth the CS suddenly becomes a small tadpole in an ocean.

jaymz wrote:On Rifts Earth? I think the NGR could. Atlantis most definitely could. Archie might. Once we get off Rifts Earth the CS suddenly becomes a small tadpole in an ocean.

More like a large bullfrog... in an ocean.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

jaymz wrote:On Rifts Earth? I think the NGR could. Atlantis most definitely could. Archie might. Once we get off Rifts Earth the CS suddenly becomes a small tadpole in an ocean.

More like a large bullfrog... in an ocean.

Just like the rest of the human nations in rifts earth.

ONLY The Splugorth.

I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

The CS is not purely a tech power. They also have a fairly impressive amount of psychic resources.

That is the only reason they survive at all. The tech just gives them teeth.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

The CS is not purely a tech power. They also have a fairly impressive amount of psychic resources.

That is the only reason they survive at all. The tech just gives them teeth.

--flatline

And pretty damn big teeth at that all thing considered.

jaymz wrote:

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

The CS is not purely a tech power. They also have a fairly impressive amount of psychic resources.

That is the only reason they survive at all. The tech just gives them teeth.

--flatline

And pretty damn big teeth at that all thing considered.

True, true, but your teeth are useless when something already has you by the throat.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

jaymz wrote:

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

The CS is not purely a tech power. They also have a fairly impressive amount of psychic resources.

That is the only reason they survive at all. The tech just gives them teeth.

--flatline

And pretty damn big teeth at that all thing considered.

True, true, but your teeth are useless when something already has you by the throat.

--flatline

No doubt. Wait until Joseph the 2nd is in charge though. He knows about the Vanguard. If there is one man that could take the reigns of the CS and use magic to it's benefit without anyone ever knowing it is him and the Vanguard would likely be quite happy with it to boot.

What could defeat the Coalition?

Most of the other major players on Rifts Earth, and quite easily in most cases.

Atlantis, of course.
The Vampire Kingdoms, by logical extension.
The NGR.
The Brodkil/Gargoyle armies, by logical extension.
The Xiticix.
Possibly, the Demon Hordes of Calgary (their unknown, combined numbers are the glaring X factor here), if properly organized and led.

jaymz wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Where does it state that the New Navy doesn't have nuclear weapons? Given it was a product of the Golden Age USA it's more than a stretch to suggest that they don't have nuclear weapons available to them.

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Where does it state that the New Navy doesn't have nuclear weapons? Given it was a product of the Golden Age USA it's more than a stretch to suggest that they don't have nuclear weapons available to them.

Please read and actually understand what I posted before responding to it.

You'll notice I did not say they didn't have nuclear weapons but that they do not have SUPER nukes (like those in Sourcebook 4 Coalition Navy). I personally think the New Navy SHOULD have them (and in my games they do as does the NGR, Archie, Megaversal Legion and others) but BY THE BOOKS the only nation that is stated as ACTUALLY having them is the CS. Sorry, I base canon on what the books ACTUALLY say not what they do not say. Making assumptions based on what isn't said in the books is just that, an assumption, not canon. Obviously in your games and mine the New navy would have these weapons as it only makes sense but that is irrelevant when it comes to canon.

Edit - For example, it would make sense for pretty much any and all Rifts contemporary aircraft to have a FLIR system on them if not something better as that is a fairly common piece of equipment even in the present. However it seems only the CS has managed to have this so called "high tech" piece of equipment on a select number of their aircraft designs while no one else does, including the New Navy. Does it make sense? No but it is canon.

jaymz wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Where does it state that the New Navy doesn't have nuclear weapons? Given it was a product of the Golden Age USA it's more than a stretch to suggest that they don't have nuclear weapons available to them.

Please read and actually understand what I posted before responding to it.

Please take the time to not be condescending and insulting when responding to a post.

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Where does it state that the New Navy doesn't have nuclear weapons? Given it was a product of the Golden Age USA it's more than a stretch to suggest that they don't have nuclear weapons available to them.

Please read and actually understand what I posted before responding to it.

Please take the time to not be condescending and insulting when responding to a post.

I wasn't. You did not seem to understand what I posted based on your response. Thus why I went on to explain my previous post for you after the above statement.

I would appreciate not having an agenda or purpose attributed to me that doesn't exist.

jaymz wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:I'll add in the New Navy, again operating under the assumption that they are a nuclear power with a significant stockpile.

A united and well led Federation of Magic could do it as well, provided the unique advantages magic gives over a purely technological power are actually exploited to their fullest.

Canonically speaking only the CS has Super Nukes so your assumption would be incorrect.

Do I think the New Navy would have them? Hell yes but by the book they do not. I think Atlantis would have something equivalent as well as the NGR and Archie. Sadly these kinds of things are rarely thought about when they add in things like Super Nukes to the CS arsenal.

Where does it state that the New Navy doesn't have nuclear weapons? Given it was a product of the Golden Age USA it's more than a stretch to suggest that they don't have nuclear weapons available to them.

Please read and actually understand what I posted before responding to it.

You'll notice I did not say they didn't have nuclear weapons but that they do not have SUPER nukes (like those in Sourcebook 4 Coalition Navy). I personally think the New Navy SHOULD have them (and in my games they do as does the NGR, Archie, Megaversal Legion and others) but BY THE BOOKS the only nation that is stated as ACTUALLY having them is the CS. Sorry, I base canon on what the books ACTUALLY say not what they do not say. Making assumptions based on what isn't said in the books is just that, an assumption, not canon. Obviously in your games and mine the New navy would have these weapons as it only makes sense but that is irrelevant when it comes to canon.

Edit - For example, it would make sense for pretty much any and all Rifts contemporary aircraft to have a FLIR system on them if not something better as that is a fairly common piece of equipment even in the present. However it seems only the CS has managed to have this so called "high tech" piece of equipment on a select number of their aircraft designs while no one else does, including the New Navy. Does it make sense? No but it is canon.

The New Navy might not necessarily have nukes, perhaps not even the new ones that "only" blow up a 50-meter radius.

Nukes are very difficult and expensive to maintain, and even the Coalition doesn't have the old city-busters, they utilized existing technology to create new city-busters of their own.

The New Navy doesn't officially, AFAIK, have that sort of capability, not even with the help of their automated bases (in the real world, it takes a hell of a lot of highly-skilled civilian manpower just to maintain much less improve on those things, and its highly doubtful that in addition to its mostly U.S. Navy personnel, that the New Navy also just happened to have a fully-stocked team of nuclear scientists and engineers on board back when the Great Cataclysm struck).

I'll have to recheck corn but I am pretty sure the CS got the super nukes (city busters) through the same means they got the old US ships for their navy. That's why they are in fact using "Tomahawk" Cruise missile et al.

jaymz wrote:I'll have to recheck corn but I am pretty sure the CS got the super nukes (city busters) through the same means they got the old US ships for their navy. That's why they are in fact using "Tomahawk" Cruise missile et al.

And how was that?

--flatline

flatline wrote:

jaymz wrote:I'll have to recheck corn but I am pretty sure the CS got the super nukes (city busters) through the same means they got the old US ships for their navy. That's why they are in fact using "Tomahawk" Cruise missile et al.

And how was that?

--flatline

Through Golden Age Weaponsmiths as written in Coalition Navy. That is how they got their Subs, Carriers and Destroyers to base their navy on. A super protected bunker with all the ships etc in them. Also a large number of F-14 Tomcats (yes that is quite silly but it is what it is). I am pretty sure that is how they go their hands on the city busters they have as well as the cruise missiles like the Tomahawk.

jaymz wrote:

flatline wrote:

jaymz wrote:I'll have to recheck corn but I am pretty sure the CS got the super nukes (city busters) through the same means they got the old US ships for their navy. That's why they are in fact using "Tomahawk" Cruise missile et al.

And how was that?

--flatline

Through Golden Age Weaponsmiths as written in Coalition Navy. That is how they got their Subs, Carriers and Destroyers to base their navy on. A super protected bunker with all the ships etc in them. Also a large number of F-14 Tomcats (yes that is quite silly but it is what it is). I am pretty sure that is how they go their hands on the city busters they have as well as the cruise missiles like the Tomahawk.

Hmm...if they haven't reconditioned the fissionable material after 300 years, then their super nukes are duds. Since we have every reason to believe that the super nukes actually do the damage given for them, then the CS must know how to recondition the fissionable material which means they have the knowledge to make new super nukes. If they have the knowledge, then all they need is the proper materials to make super nukes and since they can build reactors, it's a good bet they have access to the proper materials.

Of course, there is reason to believe that anyone who can manufacture reactors can make super nukes, or at least the warheads for super nukes. Making a dependable missile to carry the warhead is not necessarily implied by the ability to create reactors.

--flatline

You are applying logic to Rifts. You should know better by now

I am going add as capable of defeating the CS:
-Free Quebec
-Vernulians (WB#1o/DoNA)
-Lazlo

While FQ has somewhat limited resources compared to the CS as a whole, they are arguably the only NA regional power operating in the open who can claim a "victory" against the CS war machine as they broke away from the CS. (Yes Atlantis could do it, but they are more of a Global power, Archie3 operates in the shadows, the Bugs are more instinctive IMHO).

Lazlo. They haven't been properly developed. So they could be super powerful for NA and it would explain why the CS hasn't move against them.

Vernulians (sp) are from Vampire Kingdoms Original (sorry don't know if they are retained in the revised) and Dee-Bees of Noth America. If the Vernulians where to invade, they have tech equal to the CS. They aren't fully developed either, but they are said to be on par with the CS technologically so an invasion by them has a good chance of defeating the CS (planetary level resources vs regional continent should go to the planetary one).

jaymz wrote:You are applying logic to Rifts. You should know better by now

Sorry. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson by this point...guess I'd better do my penance...

Logic has no place in Canon Rifts
Logic has no place in Canon Rifts
Logic has no place in Canon Rifts
Logic has no place in Canon Rifts
Logic has no place in Canon Rifts
Logic has no place in Canon Rifts

--flatline

I doubt Free Quebec could beat the Coalition. I think it was made clear in the books that, if push came to shove, the Coalition could defeat Free Quebec.

As for Vampires, how could they beat the Coalition? Just supply those troops with water guns and they're set (Yeah, I have some problems with Rifts Vampires, like their vulnerability to running water. That makes it way too easy).

Cyber-Knight wrote:I doubt Free Quebec could beat the Coalition. I think it was made clear in the books that, if push came to shove, the Coalition could defeat Free Quebec.

As for Vampires, how could they beat the Coalition? Just supply those troops with water guns and they're set (Yeah, I have some problems with Rifts Vampires, like their vulnerability to running water. That makes it way too easy).

Replace it with the water vulnerability of Rifter 49 Vampires.

ShadowLogan wrote:I am going add as capable of defeating the CS:
-Free Quebec
-Vernulians (WB#1o/DoNA)
-Lazlo

While FQ has somewhat limited resources compared to the CS as a whole, they are arguably the only NA regional power operating in the open who can claim a "victory" against the CS war machine as they broke away from the CS. (Yes Atlantis could do it, but they are more of a Global power, Archie3 operates in the shadows, the Bugs are more instinctive IMHO).

Lazlo. They haven't been properly developed. So they could be super powerful for NA and it would explain why the CS hasn't move against them.

Vernulians (sp) are from Vampire Kingdoms Original (sorry don't know if they are retained in the revised) and Dee-Bees of Noth America. If the Vernulians where to invade, they have tech equal to the CS. They aren't fully developed either, but they are said to be on par with the CS technologically so an invasion by them has a good chance of defeating the CS (planetary level resources vs regional continent should go to the planetary one).

I'd have to disagree with these. Free Quebec is many times smaller and not 'better', also limited by lack of psi contingent, or dog boys. Glitterboy legions are pretty cool but easily countered by air elements. Lazlo is TINY compared to the CS and even said itself that if Lazlo, and all the magical kingdoms teamed up with Tolkeen they STILL couldn't beat the CS. They don't even think they could do it. As for the Vernulians. I'd say unlikely. If there's a full planetary invasion by any race it could likely beat the CS, but that's a hand of god thing that seems to be blocked by the 'unnamed inter dimensional powers" that want to keep Earth open.

To those that say FQ could not defeat the CS. They already did when the won the war for independence. Nothing about the original post requires the CS to be destroyed, just defeated. In that case, FQ has defeated the CS and could potentially do so again.

ShadowLogan wrote:To those that say FQ could not defeat the CS. They already did when the won the war for independence. Nothing about the original post requires the CS to be destroyed, just defeated. In that case, FQ has defeated the CS and could potentially do so again.

Actually as I read it FQ did no such thing. The CS backed out. One does not equal the other.

ShadowLogan wrote:To those that say FQ could not defeat the CS. They already did when the won the war for independence. Nothing about the original post requires the CS to be destroyed, just defeated. In that case, FQ has defeated the CS and could potentially do so again.

That's because it wasn't a "War" for independence. They declared independence and the CS put a half hearted attempt to push back at them. It was not an all out offensive, nor where the CS "Defeated" The war was called on the account of them making up and going to kick in Tolkeen's teeth together.

jaymz wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:Please read and actually understand what I posted before responding to it.

Please take the time to not be condescending and insulting when responding to a post.

I wasn't. You did not seem to understand what I posted based on your response. Thus why I went on to explain my previous post for you after the above statement.

I would appreciate not having an agenda or purpose attributed to me that doesn't exist.

Then don't be condescending and insulting then, because that's certainly how it comes off when you tell someone that they in your opinion didn't read or understand what you posted. I read it, I understood it, and I asked a question because of it. You could have left that one line out and it wouldn't have affected the rest of your post at all but you lead off with a personal comment about another poster that was unnecessary that calls into question their reading comprehension.

ShadowLogan wrote:To those that say FQ could not defeat the CS. They already did when the won the war for independence. Nothing about the original post requires the CS to be destroyed, just defeated. In that case, FQ has defeated the CS and could potentially do so again.

There a difference between a full blow out between CS and FQ and not that the "war of independence" where both sides weren't to thrilled to be fighting each other, FQ has the upper hand in naval warfare, but CS owns them on the land and in the sky, FQ falls to the CS in a full on war.

cornholioprime wrote:Atlantis, of course.
The Vampire Kingdoms, by logical extension.
The NGR.
The Brodkil/Gargoyle armies, by logical extension.
The Xiticix.
Possibly, the Demon Hordes of Calgary (their unknown, combined numbers are the glaring X factor here), if properly organized and led.

Pretty much sums up my response. The CS is a strong technological power with psychics. Not as strong as some make them to be. As for the Vanguard I'm sure it's going to sit really well with some of the more zealous memebrs of the Cs. If they do deploy it has to be in secret. Limiting their effectiveness imo.

The Tarlok plague from RIFTS Dimension Book 4: Skraypers.

Suddenly transforming 1/3rd of the population of the Coalition States into superhumans would completely destabilize their ability to control their population through fear and ignorance. Their entire power structure would collapse.

jaymz wrote:
Actually as I read it FQ did no such thing. The CS backed out. One does not equal the other.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:There a difference between a full blow out between CS and FQ and not that the "war of independence" where both sides weren't to thrilled to be fighting each other, FQ has the upper hand in naval warfare, but CS owns them on the land and in the sky, FQ falls to the CS in a full on war.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:That's because it wasn't a "War" for independence. They declared independence and the CS put a half hearted attempt to push back at them. It was not an all out offensive, nor where the CS "Defeated" The war was called on the account of them making up and going to kick in Tolkeen's teeth together.

The OP doesn't define what level of "defeat" they are looking for. Is it the destruction and/or absorption of the CS into another Power Block(s)? Or is it the prevention of CS goals in a conflict (in this case the succession of the state of FQ from the CS Union)?

I do realize the CS/FQ war had both parties holding back for various reasons, but the end result is that FQ did deliver a defeat to the CS as the CS was unable to bring them back into the fold.

ShadowLogan wrote:

jaymz wrote:
Actually as I read it FQ did no such thing. The CS backed out. One does not equal the other.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:There a difference between a full blow out between CS and FQ and not that the "war of independence" where both sides weren't to thrilled to be fighting each other, FQ has the upper hand in naval warfare, but CS owns them on the land and in the sky, FQ falls to the CS in a full on war.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:That's because it wasn't a "War" for independence. They declared independence and the CS put a half hearted attempt to push back at them. It was not an all out offensive, nor where the CS "Defeated" The war was called on the account of them making up and going to kick in Tolkeen's teeth together.

The OP doesn't define what level of "defeat" they are looking for. Is it the destruction and/or absorption of the CS into another Power Block(s)? Or is it the prevention of CS goals in a conflict (in this case the succession of the state of FQ from the CS Union)?

I do realize the CS/FQ war had both parties holding back for various reasons, but the end result is that FQ did deliver a defeat to the CS as the CS was unable to bring them back into the fold.

That's not true in any sense of the word.

The conflicting factions voluntarily withdrew from the battlefield; that is neither victory for the one side nor defeat for the other.

We as readers aren't even allowed to know with 100% certainty that the Emperor won't go back and try again at some point in the future (only next time, if there is a conflict between the two nations, the people of Canada won't have Tolkeen there to "save" them by diverting significant portions of Coalition military might).

cornholioprime wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

jaymz wrote:
Actually as I read it FQ did no such thing. The CS backed out. One does not equal the other.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:There a difference between a full blow out between CS and FQ and not that the "war of independence" where both sides weren't to thrilled to be fighting each other, FQ has the upper hand in naval warfare, but CS owns them on the land and in the sky, FQ falls to the CS in a full on war.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:That's because it wasn't a "War" for independence. They declared independence and the CS put a half hearted attempt to push back at them. It was not an all out offensive, nor where the CS "Defeated" The war was called on the account of them making up and going to kick in Tolkeen's teeth together.

The OP doesn't define what level of "defeat" they are looking for. Is it the destruction and/or absorption of the CS into another Power Block(s)? Or is it the prevention of CS goals in a conflict (in this case the succession of the state of FQ from the CS Union)?

I do realize the CS/FQ war had both parties holding back for various reasons, but the end result is that FQ did deliver a defeat to the CS as the CS was unable to bring them back into the fold.

That's not true in any sense of the word.

The conflicting factions voluntarily withdrew from the battlefield; that is neither victory for the one side nor defeat for the other.

We as readers aren't even allowed to know with 100% certainty that the Emperor won't go back and try again at some point in the future (only next time, if there is a conflict between the two nations, the people of Canada won't have Tolkeen there to "save" them by diverting significant portions of Coalition military might).

Who need Tolkeen when you have the bugs?

--flatline

Aftermath says that the CS was just about to do a crushing full out siege of FQ right before sorcerer's revenge. IT is likely w/o the sorcerers revenge and the Quebecois double cross FQ would have been destroyed. Which would have been sad I like FQ.

masslegion wrote:Aftermath says that the CS was just about to do a crushing full out siege of FQ right before sorcerer's revenge. IT is likely w/o the sorcerers revenge and the Quebecois double cross FQ would have been destroyed. Which would have been sad I like FQ.

Why? I never got this... so many people hate the CS and then so many of those same people proclaim their love for FQ... why?

When I think about FQ I see in my mind a people even more intolerant of 'non-humans' then even the CS. They hate magic, they hate dog boys, they hate psi-stalkers, they hate psychics... in general they hate anything even remotely non-human... even more so then the CS...

Then again I could be wrong, but this is what I've come to see FQ as. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but they to me just seem to be a more intolerant mini-CS with glitter boy tech...

The difference between them, though, is that they don't go out looking for people to kill like the Coalition does. There's a big difference between the virulent racist who sits in his La-Z-Boy at home muttering under his breath and the racist who's not as virulently hateful but goes out looking for somebody to hurt. The former may have more hatred, but so long as you leave him alone and stay off his lawn he'll leave you alone.

Slight001 wrote:

masslegion wrote:Aftermath says that the CS was just about to do a crushing full out siege of FQ right before sorcerer's revenge. IT is likely w/o the sorcerers revenge and the Quebecois double cross FQ would have been destroyed. Which would have been sad I like FQ.

Why? I never got this... so many people hate the CS and then so many of those same people proclaim their love for FQ... why?

When I think about FQ I see in my mind a people even more intolerant of 'non-humans' then even the CS. They hate magic, they hate dog boys, they hate psi-stalkers, they hate psychics... in general they hate anything even remotely non-human... even more so then the CS...

Then again I could be wrong, but this is what I've come to see FQ as. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but they to me just seem to be a more intolerant mini-CS with glitter boy tech...

Lets just say most have no clue

Who could defeat the CS? I'd say:
1) Atlantis
2) NGR
3) The New Navy
4) Archie 3
5) The Vampire Kingdoms
6) Xiticix
7) Pheonix Empire (maybe)
Republic of Japan (maybe)
9) Geofront (maybe)

ShadowLogan wrote:

jaymz wrote:
Actually as I read it FQ did no such thing. The CS backed out. One does not equal the other.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:There a difference between a full blow out between CS and FQ and not that the "war of independence" where both sides weren't to thrilled to be fighting each other, FQ has the upper hand in naval warfare, but CS owns them on the land and in the sky, FQ falls to the CS in a full on war.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:That's because it wasn't a "War" for independence. They declared independence and the CS put a half hearted attempt to push back at them. It was not an all out offensive, nor where the CS "Defeated" The war was called on the account of them making up and going to kick in Tolkeen's teeth together.

The OP doesn't define what level of "defeat" they are looking for. Is it the destruction and/or absorption of the CS into another Power Block(s)? Or is it the prevention of CS goals in a conflict (in this case the succession of the state of FQ from the CS Union)?

I do realize the CS/FQ war had both parties holding back for various reasons, but the end result is that FQ did deliver a defeat to the CS as the CS was unable to bring them back into the fold.

By this logic if one FQ soldier beat up a CS soldier then FQ handed the CS a 'defeat', and it's not what's meant by the OP. "Defeat" Doesn't mean "Winning one battle but not the war".

Slight001 wrote:

masslegion wrote:Aftermath says that the CS was just about to do a crushing full out siege of FQ right before sorcerer's revenge. IT is likely w/o the sorcerers revenge and the Quebecois double cross FQ would have been destroyed. Which would have been sad I like FQ.

Why? I never got this... so many people hate the CS and then so many of those same people proclaim their love for FQ... why?

When I think about FQ I see in my mind a people even more intolerant of 'non-humans' then even the CS. They hate magic, they hate dog boys, they hate psi-stalkers, they hate psychics... in general they hate anything even remotely non-human... even more so then the CS...

Then again I could be wrong, but this is what I've come to see FQ as. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but they to me just seem to be a more intolerant mini-CS with glitter boy tech...

Ramon Perez designed their military. They look wicked cool!!

(( Other than that you're right. They're elitist french types that don't like dogs...... how can people trust that??))

Here's Erin Tarn's view of the Coalition's chances of beating Free Quebec.

If the Coalition States faced only Free Quebec, I would fathom to say that their vastly larger and equally (perhaps more) advanced army would make easy work of Quebec.
...
To compound the situation, Free Quebec is no pushover. They possess the second largest and most technologically advanced standing army in North America. Only the Army of the Coalition States surpasses it in size, albeit by several fold.
...
In the end, what all this means is if somebody does not give in, if the current stand-off and threats escalate into all-out-war, the Coalition Army will lay waste to Free Quebec.

Another quote from the book:

All in all, both are relatively equal in technology. And with the CS forces currently spread thin against Tolkeen, the Xiticix and the defense of its sprawling borders, roughly equal in man-power and resources.

The Coalition forces and Free Quebec were only equal in manpower and resources after taking into account the full-scale war being waged against Tolkeen and defending against the Xiticix. That should say it all. Take away the war in Tolkeen and the Coalition overwhelms Free Quebec in manpower and resources. So in a straight one-on-one match Free Quebec loses.

Cyber-Knight wrote:The difference between them, though, is that they don't go out looking for people to kill like the Coalition does. There's a big difference between the virulent racist who sits in his La-Z-Boy at home muttering under his breath and the racist who's not as virulently hateful but goes out looking for somebody to hurt. The former may have more hatred, but so long as you leave him alone and stay off his lawn he'll leave you alone.

And yet d-bees run to CS terrority.