Dual OCC's Legal?

[Cyber-Knight]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

[Looonatic]

I know there are rules regarding that in one of the Rifters, but I don't know if it's official material or optional material.

[dragonfett]

There is a monster that automatically gains levels in two classes. The Lizard Mage, who can be found in CB1 (both versions) and in Monster and Animals from what I understand.

[Shark_Force]

there are also rules somewhere for being forcibly turned into a 'borg as i recall, as well as similar rules for crazies and juicers. maybe also tattoo OCCs from atlantis and bio-borgs?

anyways, there's rules for what happens if you're forced to make an OCC change somewhere. i'm fairly sure it was specifically mentioning 'borgs. and the rules that i am aware of being posted are essentially the same as that, minus the part where the new OCC is forced on you.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

If you mean progressing in 2 classes at the same time, as per system canon this is not possible.

If you mean a char is changing to another class.
As per the published Rifts Books, No they can not.

The only current published canon rules about changing class is the changing Occupational classes. These are in the PF:High Seas book. However, when using them they are meant for only occupational classes, not Psychic classes nor Racial classes.
What this means for post RUE rifts' classes if you want to import the PF Occupational Class changing rules?
You need to look at 'what the class actually is' (beyond the "Everything is an OCC style" that has been applied to the Post RUE books.) to determine if the class is for a "Job", Occupation, or is it represents the nature of the char, Psychic or racial. If it is just a Job, then the PF rules apply to that class. If the class is about the intrinsic nature of the char, then they do not apply.

There are munchkin optional rules for changing classes posted on the PB site in the "Cutting Room Floor."

[Nightmask]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

If you mean progressing in 2 classes at the same time, as per system canon this is not possible.

If you mean a char is changing to another class.
As per the published Rifts Books, No they can not.

The only current published canon rules about changing class is the changing Occupational classes. These are in the PF:High Seas book. However, when using them they are meant for only occupational classes, not Psychic classes nor Racial classes.
What this means for post RUE rifts' classes if you want to import the PF Occupational Class changing rules?
You need to look at 'what the class actually is' (beyond the "Everything is an OCC style" that has been applied to the Post RUE books.) to determine if the class is for a "Job", Occupation, or is it represents the nature of the char, Psychic or racial. If it is just a Job, then the PF rules apply to that class. If the class is about the intrinsic nature of the char, then they do not apply.

There are munchkin optional rules for changing classes posted on the PB site in the "Cutting Room Floor."

There aren't any psychic character classes anymore, and it's a gross mischaracterization to refer to those rules as 'munchkin'. Do try and remove your personal house rules and opinions from feedback like that, or at least take time to point out that they're your house rules instead of claiming that they're canon.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

If you mean progressing in 2 classes at the same time, as per system canon this is not possible.

If you mean a char is changing to another class.
As per the published Rifts Books, No they can not.

Wait, What? There are rules in the Bionics Sourcebook in two different places about switching OCCs and dozens of NPCs have multiple OCCs.

There are Specific rules about changing to the Borg class and specific rules for changing to a Juicer class.
Do these sound like generalized rules to use for all class changes to you?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

If you mean progressing in 2 classes at the same time, as per system canon this is not possible.

If you mean a char is changing to another class.
As per the published Rifts Books, No they can not.

The only current published canon rules about changing class is the changing Occupational classes. These are in the PF:High Seas book. However, when using them they are meant for only occupational classes, not Psychic classes nor Racial classes.
What this means for post RUE rifts' classes if you want to import the PF Occupational Class changing rules?
You need to look at 'what the class actually is' (beyond the "Everything is an OCC style" that has been applied to the Post RUE books.) to determine if the class is for a "Job", Occupation, or is it represents the nature of the char, Psychic or racial. If it is just a Job, then the PF rules apply to that class. If the class is about the intrinsic nature of the char, then they do not apply.

There are munchkin optional rules for changing classes posted on the PB site in the "Cutting Room Floor."

There aren't any psychic character classes anymore, and it's a gross mischaracterization to refer to those rules as 'munchkin'. Do try and remove your personal house rules and opinions from feedback like that, or at least take time to point out that they're your house rules instead of claiming that they're canon.

RUE pages 138-156 section Title "Psychic Characters". There are Too Psychic classes. They may not bear the PCC label in Post-RUE rifts but to say they are not Psychic classes is going off the deep end.

And if you note, I knew you, or someone, would bring the "there are not any PCC's Post-RUE" That is why I said what I said, the way I said it. To get my point across in a way that Rifters can not just go..."there are not PCC's any more, so he is a crazy loony." * *

Remember, you HAVE TO follow the in the context of the PFRPG2 setting to use the PF changing JOB rules correctly.

Otherwise, you are using them out of context, i.e.: WRONGE!

That is the point people who argue against my stance have not been getting.
When you are using the PF changing OCC rules 'You are not in Kansas anymore'; Not even in Illinois nor Iowa; so follow them as they were "Intended To Be Used", not to use them blindly out of context.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You are forgetting the rules for dropping a City-Rat OCC and picking up a new one, that sounds like pretty generalized rule to me seeing as they can be used with any OCC and character.

Sounds Pretty specific to me.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You are forgetting the rules for dropping a City-Rat OCC and picking up a new one, that sounds like pretty generalized rule to me seeing as they can be used with any OCC and character.

Sounds Pretty specific to me.

Right, s you would also say that juicer assassin plate armor can only be used for juicers?

No. anybody can wear armor. It would be wrong for a person to wear the wrong sort of armor though.

i.e.: it would be stupid for someone who was not as strong and dexterus as a juicer to wear juicer plate because it would weigh them down.

If the rules talk about how to change from or to a specific class, that is all they talk about. Nothing more. As Per Canon.

If a GM wishes to broaden their meaning In His or Her Game, then they can do so.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So what you are saying is that a set of rules that has a set of parameters (people who want to change classes) can only be used for one OCC even though multiple OCCs can fit the parameter?

Nope not saying the above.


If there are Parameters set With In A Individual Rules Set, The Yes. you have to meet said parameters to follow that set of rules. THAT is the point you are not "Getting", or are conveniently ignoring. I can not be any plainer then that.

Will try to put in a way anyone can understand.
This is why you can use the changing to the borg class from any other class, but not use them to change from a class to a NOT A BORG class with in canon.
Or the to a juicer class from any other class can not be used to change from a class to NOT A JUICER class with in canon.
Or the rules that cover changing from a City Rat class to another, can not be used to cover a change from NOT A CITY RAT class to another class with in canon.

---------------
And...Yes, you need to follow the Context of what setting the rules are in.
So far Only rifts and BTS have a style filter on their class labels. Thus they have made it Harder for people to use the only published generalized changing OCC rules (in the PF:HS book) by muddying the waters about which classes can change their class through them.

[Athos]

I don't know why palladium doesn't allow dual and multi classing, they certainly borrowed enough things from AD&D that one more shouldn't matter.

I think dual and multi classing, if done right, would make Rifts better. They would have to limit the number of total skills somehow, maybe only giving half the occ-related and secondary or something like that, but that is doable. And depending on the OCC's it could be munchy, so much of Rifts is already, but I think a reasonable and logical pairing of classes should be allowed.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So what you are saying is that a set of rules that has a set of parameters (people who want to change classes) can only be used for one OCC even though multiple OCCs can fit the parameter?

Or the rules that cover changing from a City Rat class to another, can not be used to cover a change from NOT A CITY RAT class to another class with in canon.

Why? why can't non-city rats use the rules, there is nothing in that rule set other than it say "City-Rat" that precludes non city rats.

Except that they are for ONLY for City-Rats. That is the whole reason other classes can not use them. If you can not get this basic concept then I give up trying to explain it to you.

[MADMANMIKE]

While we're quoting specific multi-classing rules, don't forget the Juicer-Wannabe from Juicer Uprising.

So there it is. Cannon rules for RIFTS multi-classing, provided you are first a Juicer Wannabe or a City-Rat, or your choice of change is to become a borg... That's it.

The Dual OCC rules in the Cutting Room Floor are specifically for Palladium Fantasy. That, like any other set of rules from a non-RIFTS book, is what's known as "Optional", not canon.. Also from Palladium Fantasy there's the half-wizard class in Mysteries of Magic.

As to "dozens of NPC's" that have multiple OCCs, those are NPCs, they often do not follow canon rules, particularly when they're written by Bill Cofin...

But as Panomas points out, Dual class characters are not in the rules. Why? Because unlike AD&D character classes, RIFTS classes are all highly skilled. Either they start with loads of skills (equal to a Masters or Doctorate in their chosen fields of study), or they learn copious amounts of skills along their development (a rarity in RIFTS, mostly the Vagabond does this). Other game systems expect your characters to start out weak and quickly learn and get stronger; in most of the Palladium Megaverse, your characters start out pretty darn tough, which is good, because like real life, everything you encounter is not going to be balanced against you....

Now, all of that said, the name of the game is fun. So if your GM wants to allow it, you can make any kind of character you want. It's not recommended, but if you guys are down with it, knock yourselves out.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So by your line of thinking: Because the Rogue Scientist is the only OCC with "Analyze" as a special ability, no other Character is capable of performing analysis? Not even a rogue scholar or High IQ characters who may be able to perform high cognitive functions?

The rules In the Rogue Scientist only covers how the Rogue Scientist does things. The rules in the Rogue Scientist class do not cover how other classes do things.

I hope this clears it up for you cause I went the extra step even to respond to this.

[drewkitty ~..~]

What you have been doing is saying something like "The rules in the Techno wizard lets them create TW stuff, why can't those same rules be used to let my city rat make TW stuff?
The simple answer is, "Because the City rat is not a Techno Wizard".

[Nether]

To OP, I would strongly suggest you take a all this canon speak with a very big dose of salt.

I gurantee you that there is no one that can play Rifts by canon, as it is just impossible. I dont have to know the people here, but one thing that is universal with the Rifts rule system is EVERYONE HAS TO use house rules to make it thru the night. The reason these boards are on fire all the time is because canon contradicts itself alot, but yet many will tell you çanon this, canon that, i cant do anything unless canon says.

So take the rules mentioned above about the ones that can multiclass / dual class and use them with a little tweaking.

We allow multiclassing and dual classing, only diff is you can focus on one class at a time putting xp towards it until you decide to start focusing xp towards a different one. Dual classing you just split the xp down the middle.

Regardless of multiclassing of dual classing though, bonuses between classes do NOT stack, they supersede. On the second class we dont let you just take the skills, you have to use the bonus skills from first class to buy the skills you need for the otherclass.

We also put exception that if you are a psychic class you cannot take a magic class as your potential has been developed towards psionics, and vice versa. So really gain some abilities or bonuses you didnt have before or improve in a bonus, but you arent super duper have all skills and powers of the megaverse.

One last mention, the Alchemist OCC requires that you have multiclassed to i think 3 other occs already before you can even take the class.

[Blue_Lion]

Well dual classing from old school D&D was abandoning one class for a new one. That matches the rules in the cutting room floor. Now multi classing was advancing in more than one class and is generally not allowed.

The key to OCC is occupational that means to have the class you devote allot of time and effort to be that class. It is part of your identity of who you are. Now there may be times where some big event changes how you see yourself this would cause you to change your occupation. (Such as a vagabond joining the military and spending the better part of a year in training, or a priest losing faith.) Such changes in focus should be uncommon and should only count if the GM wishes them to and that is what the rules in the cutting room floor cover.

Now I see nothing that says the stuff in the cutting room floor is not cannon, just left out for space issues. But all rules are up to the GM on whether or not they add to their game and if they should be used.

[keir451]

I was looking through some old threads and they said that dual OCC's are canon legal. If so, where can one find rules for that? (Something tells me the answer to every question I have tonight is going to be "Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised")

I don't have the revised CB 1, but according to all official info I've known (plus the way the game is set up) there has never been a system for dual classing in Rifts. The closest I've seen are the standards for assuming new OCCs if you become a cyborg or stop being Juicer. Those standards state that your current level and OCC skills freeze and you start over as your new OCC, only skills that are the same between the two OCCs continue to advance. I'm also not familiar with the rules concerning City-Rats but most likely they are case specific to the City-Rat OCC and not for general use. Hope this helps!

[DhAkael]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

[flatline]

There were rules for multi-classing in the Palladium Fantasy Revised. Worked fine, too. Once you hit level 5 or 6, you'd pick a new class and work towards that. By the end of a long campaign, just about every character would have 2 or 3 classes.

The palladium level system feels like it was built for exactly this sort of thing, so I find it strange that they didn't include rules in every main book for it.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

There were rules for multi-classing in the Palladium Fantasy Revised. Worked fine, too. Once you hit level 5 or 6, you'd pick a new class and work towards that. By the end of a long campaign, just about every character would have 2 or 3 classes.

The palladium level system feels like it was built for exactly this sort of thing, so I find it strange that they didn't include rules in every main book for it.

--flatline

They'd often assume players wouldn't want something or leave something out for streamlining. The original Robotech book left out new skills based on level advancement and had to be put back in in a supplement where they note it had been left out for streamlining but put back in due to player feedback/complaints over it. So Palladium just assumed there was no need for dual-classing rules when in fact there were.

[DhAkael]

There were rules for multi-classing in the Palladium Fantasy Revised. Worked fine, too. Once you hit level 5 or 6, you'd pick a new class and work towards that. By the end of a long campaign, just about every character would have 2 or 3 classes.

The palladium level system feels like it was built for exactly this sort of thing, so I find it strange that they didn't include rules in every main book for it.

--flatline

*shrug*
"Game ballance" (air quotes and sarcasm) is Kevin Siembiada's usual boggaboo for not continuing a trend that works.
Sorta like the WP's for modern weapons that worked JUST fine in the 1st ed games, but he then decided to completely gank for his "improved" books.
Ah well, but long story short, I agree, the rules for multiclassing SHOULD have been cut & pasted to the other game lines in PB.

[DhAkael]

There were rules for multi-classing in the Palladium Fantasy Revised. Worked fine, too. Once you hit level 5 or 6, you'd pick a new class and work towards that. By the end of a long campaign, just about every character would have 2 or 3 classes.

The palladium level system feels like it was built for exactly this sort of thing, so I find it strange that they didn't include rules in every main book for it.

--flatline

They'd often assume players wouldn't want something or leave something out for streamlining. The original Robotech book left out new skills based on level advancement and had to be put back in in a supplement where they note it had been left out for streamlining but put back in due to player feedback/complaints over it. So Palladium just assumed there was no need for dual-classing rules when in fact there were.

TRUTH!

[Damian Magecraft]

There were rules for multi-classing in the Palladium Fantasy Revised. Worked fine, too. Once you hit level 5 or 6, you'd pick a new class and work towards that. By the end of a long campaign, just about every character would have 2 or 3 classes.

The palladium level system feels like it was built for exactly this sort of thing, so I find it strange that they didn't include rules in every main book for it.

--flatline

They'd often assume players wouldn't want something or leave something out for streamlining. The original Robotech book left out new skills based on level advancement and had to be put back in in a supplement where they note it had been left out for streamlining but put back in due to player feedback/complaints over it. So Palladium just assumed there was no need for dual-classing rules when in fact there were.

TRUTH!

outside of certain classes (juicers, borgs, etc...) why is it needed?
I have never understood this "need" to multi-class
To me it smacks of power whoring.

[EmeraldToucanet]

They are specific to dual classing with a psychic OCC, but there are Official rules for taking a second OCC Rifter 50, and I recall that article mentioning more rules for taking a second OCC are planned for one of the Rifts Chaos Earth books. When the before-mentioned book will ever come out, who knows, but for now we do at least have the rules in that Rifter, which I think without too much trouble could be applied to taking two non-psychic OCCs, and there's of course the before-mentioned Palladium Fantasy rules, which is what my DM has been using.

[Blue_Lion]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

Actualy they also had certain mages had the option to switching to TWs when they came to rifts, but the old class was frozen so true old chool daul class. But i dont know anything in rifts that allows people to adcance in more than one class usaly you have to aboandoing one to take on a second.

[Damian Magecraft]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

Actualy they also had certain mages had the option to switching to TWs when they came to rifts, but the old class was frozen so true old chool daul class. But i dont know anything in rifts that allows people to adcance in more than one class usaly you have to aboandoing one to take on a second.

that is correct Lion...
Only one OCC may progress at a time.

[flatline]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

Actualy they also had certain mages had the option to switching to TWs when they came to rifts, but the old class was frozen so true old chool daul class. But i dont know anything in rifts that allows people to adcance in more than one class usaly you have to aboandoing one to take on a second.

that is correct Lion...
Only one OCC may progress at a time.

If you use the original fantasy rules, you can only advance in one OCC at a time, but whenever you level, you get to choose which OCC you want to advance in for the next level.

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

Actualy they also had certain mages had the option to switching to TWs when they came to rifts, but the old class was frozen so true old chool daul class. But i dont know anything in rifts that allows people to adcance in more than one class usaly you have to aboandoing one to take on a second.

that is correct Lion...
Only one OCC may progress at a time.

If you use the original fantasy rules, you can only advance in one OCC at a time, but whenever you level, you get to choose which OCC you want to advance in for the next level.

--flatline

That is incorrect...
Once you switched you could only go back once.

[flatline]

Sourcebook 1 (1st ed) under "Going full conversion borg" near the begining has a guideline for multiclassing.
It can apply to other OCC's I would assume.
*shrug*
It's never been a problem for me to deal with as a GM; at least half of my players over the years have multi-classed with a minimum of them looking at me like poleaxed steers going "whaaaatttt???!"
It's mindlessly simple as long as you READ what is written and use reason & logic (and a modicum of GM fiat; which seems to be the case with ANYTHING PBooks).

Actualy they also had certain mages had the option to switching to TWs when they came to rifts, but the old class was frozen so true old chool daul class. But i dont know anything in rifts that allows people to adcance in more than one class usaly you have to aboandoing one to take on a second.

that is correct Lion...
Only one OCC may progress at a time.

If you use the original fantasy rules, you can only advance in one OCC at a time, but whenever you level, you get to choose which OCC you want to advance in for the next level.

--flatline

That is incorrect...
Once you switched you could only go back once.

Hmm...really?

I like how we did it better...of course we always like our house rules better.

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

If you use the original fantasy rules, you can only advance in one OCC at a time, but whenever you level, you get to choose which OCC you want to advance in for the next level.

--flatline

That is incorrect...
Once you switched you could only go back once.

Right and This is stated in PFRPG High Seas-

I was thinking of doing an optional write up (for Rifts in regards to changing OCCs) for the Rifter-but doing it right (to avoid power whores) is technically difficult, becuase of how palladium doesn't really want to address these types of changes to OCC and such.

I still need someone to explain to me why "dual/multi" class rules are necessary beyond certain situations (borgs, juicers, crazys, etc...).
Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system.
O/R/PCCs are heavily front loaded and therefore more than just a "job" you can change on a whim.

[MADMANMIKE]

I still need someone to explain to me why "dual/multi" class rules are necessary beyond certain situations (borgs, juicers, crazys, etc...).
Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system.
O/R/PCCs are heavily front loaded and therefore more than just a "job" you can change on a whim.

You're not going to get it, because you're talking to a wall, just like I was 20 plus posts ago when I stated the same thing you just did...

[flatline]

I still need someone to explain to me why "dual/multi" class rules are necessary beyond certain situations (borgs, juicers, crazys, etc...).
Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system.
O/R/PCCs are heavily front loaded and therefore more than just a "job" you can change on a whim.

You're not going to get it, because you're talking to a wall, just like I was 20 plus posts ago when I stated the same thing you just did...

The fact that you can't change the direction of your character's development is a failing of the system. Changing OCCs is the only way, in the current system, to do that. And yes, it sucks, but it's better than nothing.

This is why I prefer points based systems rather than class/level based systems.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

I still need someone to explain to me why "dual/multi" class rules are necessary beyond certain situations (borgs, juicers, crazys, etc...).
Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system.
O/R/PCCs are heavily front loaded and therefore more than just a "job" you can change on a whim.

You're not going to get it, because you're talking to a wall, just like I was 20 plus posts ago when I stated the same thing you just did...

Maybe you should stop looking at it as people just wanting to 'change on a whim' or that somehow one is magically constrained to whatever they start with and no events could change that. After 10 years in game being a Glitter Boy Pilot maybe he's just tired of it, or wants to be more like a Rogue Scientist wanting to stop destroying and instead learn and build. The mage who's thirsty for magical knowledge has to change classes to learn some magical OCC if he wants to gain that magical knowledge, and so on.

[Damian Magecraft]

I still need someone to explain to me why "dual/multi" class rules are necessary beyond certain situations (borgs, juicers, crazys, etc...).
Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system.
O/R/PCCs are heavily front loaded and therefore more than just a "job" you can change on a whim.

You're not going to get it, because you're talking to a wall, just like I was 20 plus posts ago when I stated the same thing you just did...

Maybe you should stop looking at it as people just wanting to 'change on a whim' or that somehow one is magically constrained to whatever they start with and no events could change that. After 10 years in game being a Glitter Boy Pilot maybe he's just tired of it, or wants to be more like a Rogue Scientist wanting to stop destroying and instead learn and build. The mage who's thirsty for magical knowledge has to change classes to learn some magical OCC if he wants to gain that magical knowledge, and so on.

Again Palladium is not a "Zero to Hero" system the character is too heavily front loaded for switching classes constantly.
The Glitter Boy Pilot can select skills that reflect that change in direction...
The LLW or Wizard that seek knowledge can learn most spells (granted some specialist spells may require higher levels and PPE costs)
And for those Specialties that are not just "unique" spells there are rules already in place.
As long as it is understood changing class is a one way trip and must make sense in relation to the character I have no issue with it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

personally there are alot of "OCCs" that really shouldnt exist
Juicer and ,Borg are two,both are enhancements and a lifestyles not a OCC

most of CS are MOSs not OCCs

[MADMANMIKE]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

[Slight001]

So what about the burster who focuses and trains both his psionics and as a military specialist? were it me I'd let them but they'd have to earn more experience to level. Would I foece them to pay double the exp? probably not. There would be a cost, but I'd not force heavy one on them. after all no one expects the Vanguard Brawler to earn more experience per level then a human of the same class.

[flatline]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

I know people who are practicing doctors who are also practicing lawyers.
I know people who were professional musicians who decided to go to med school.
I know people who are both doctors and professional musicians.
I know people who left the military to become doctors, lawyers, professionals, etc.
I know people are are doctors, lawyers, professionals, that are also military reservists.

All these things are impossible by the Palladium rules set.

The whole idea that people can only pursue one passion or career path is stupid.

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

So what about the burster who focuses and trains both his psionics and as a military specialist? were it me I'd let them but they'd have to earn more experience to level. Would I foece them to pay double the exp? probably not. There would be a cost, but I'd not force heavy one on them. after all no one expects the Vanguard Brawler to earn more experience per level then a human of the same class.

Ok the Burster/MilSpec? Fit the OCC within the limits of the PCC.
by this I mean as GM I would in that situation I would make an exception in the skill selections the char experiences as a Burster.
(no change in the number of skills just the ones he is "allowed" access to) no need to create special multi-class rules.

[Damian Magecraft]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

I know people who are practicing doctors who are also practicing lawyers.
I know people who were professional musicians who decided to go to med school.
I know people who are both doctors and professional musicians.
I know people who left the military to become doctors, lawyers, professionals, etc.
I know people are are doctors, lawyers, professionals, that are also military reservists.

All these things are impossible by the Palladium rules set.

The whole idea that people can only pursue one passion or career path is stupid.

--flatline

Your Military examples are not valid...
Military Doctors are not trained any differently than regular Doctors (with the exception of Military Etiquette).
Ditto for the Lawyers and such...
A doctor that is also a professional Musician? um.... Play musical Instrument (take twice for Professional level Optional rule in Palladium) so possible in Pally.
Doctors that are Lawyers? again its a matter of skill selection... Law skills IIRC are technical skills which every MD class is allowed to take... So possible in Pally.
I still see no need for "true multi/Dual-class" rules...
Stop trying to apply rules from Zero to Hero games to a front loaded one...
You people have minds use them...
think outside the box of traditional D&D concepts.
Most every combination (except for those given Borgs, juicers, etc...) can be achieved through skill selection without the need of changing class.

[flatline]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

I know people who are practicing doctors who are also practicing lawyers.
I know people who were professional musicians who decided to go to med school.
I know people who are both doctors and professional musicians.
I know people who left the military to become doctors, lawyers, professionals, etc.
I know people are are doctors, lawyers, professionals, that are also military reservists.

All these things are impossible by the Palladium rules set.

The whole idea that people can only pursue one passion or career path is stupid.

--flatline

Your Military examples are not valid...
Military Doctors are not trained any differently than regular Doctors (with the exception of Military Etiquette).

You misunderstand. They had NO medical training in the military. They had other specialties. When they left the military, they went to med school and became doctors.

--flatline

[DhAkael]

Bored now.

[Damian Magecraft]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

I know people who are practicing doctors who are also practicing lawyers.
I know people who were professional musicians who decided to go to med school.
I know people who are both doctors and professional musicians.
I know people who left the military to become doctors, lawyers, professionals, etc.
I know people are are doctors, lawyers, professionals, that are also military reservists.

All these things are impossible by the Palladium rules set.

The whole idea that people can only pursue one passion or career path is stupid.

--flatline

Your Military examples are not valid...
Military Doctors are not trained any differently than regular Doctors (with the exception of Military Etiquette).

You misunderstand. They had NO medical training in the military. They had other specialties. When they left the military, they went to med school and became doctors.

--flatline

So they used the Military College fund to pay for Med school? sounds like they had planned to be a Doctor from the beginning... Hardly supports your argument that it is not a way of life but just a "job". and I would bet that your Doctor would agree that being a Doctor is more than just a job.

[MADMANMIKE]

O.C.C. is not just a template for a playing piece in a game, it's a characters way of life.. It's their passion, their driving force, their calling, it's what makes them who they are. The character's O.C.C. is what defines them.. In real life, how many people do you think become medical doctors and then one day decide they'd rather be a professional boxer? How many Forest Rangers decide to become taxi drivers? How many College Professors quit teaching to drive a truck?

There are no canon rules in RIFTS for switching O.C.C.s because even in a world where giant robots fight spell casting dragons, it's implausible...

I know people who are practicing doctors who are also practicing lawyers.
I know people who were professional musicians who decided to go to med school.
I know people who are both doctors and professional musicians.
I know people who left the military to become doctors, lawyers, professionals, etc.
I know people are are doctors, lawyers, professionals, that are also military reservists.

All these things are impossible by the Palladium rules set.

The whole idea that people can only pursue one passion or career path is stupid.

--flatline

Your Military examples are not valid...
Military Doctors are not trained any differently than regular Doctors (with the exception of Military Etiquette).

You misunderstand. They had NO medical training in the military. They had other specialties. When they left the military, they went to med school and became doctors.

--flatline

So they used the Military College fund to pay for Med school? sounds like they had planned to be a Doctor from the beginning... Hardly supports your argument that it is not a way of life but just a "job". and I would bet that your Doctor would agree that being a Doctor is more than just a job.

Like I said, you're talking to a wall. The OP was asking a question, it was answered, and now people are just whining that the answer isn't the way they want the game to be, or the way they play. You won't convince them that the rules are fine and written with a reason, so why bother.. I'm out.

[NMI]

Locking due to some people getting over emotional.