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RedRose wrote:Scenario.

A. Archie awaken's the military they reach an accord, in which Archie does not get lobotimized, the army he keeps them supplied and geared and mobile via his many vast (and secret) factories. Hagen is seen as the equal of the General, and is also head of the complex, while the General is the head of the military arm.

B. They are equiped with the best technologies Archie has at his disposal.

C. They are supplied via archie.


How would this army effect North America and its powers ?

How many would believe them ?

Would people come to their side ?

Who would try to stop them ?

Mack wrote:And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

Mack wrote:And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

How would this army effect North America and its powers?

How many would believe them?

Would people come to their side?

Who would try to stop them?

Cyber-Knight wrote:Huh, clever quip from a guy that thinks that 30,000 free men would gladly just submit themselves to a totalitarian police state and risk "disappearing" in the middle of the night. You're the first person I've ever seen to claim that people would willingly flee TO a place like East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany, North Korea, or other police states.

Cyber-Knight wrote:Huh, clever quip from a guy that thinks that 30,000 free men would gladly just submit themselves to a totalitarian police state and risk "disappearing" in the middle of the night. You're the first person I've ever seen to claim that people would willingly flee TO a place like East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany, North Korea, or other police states.

Tiree wrote:Let's say Archie does lose the battle with the Republicans - they lobotomize him.

Would those 28,000 troops follow the Republicans? Or would the Republicans follow those troops?

My gut feeling - those 28,000 troops would still be on ice. Nobody likes giving up power!

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Does Archie has the number of bathrooms to deal with the number of people get defrosted, and will Archie stand for people using his home like a bar bathroom

Hotrod wrote:Austin Powers wake-up scene times 28,000. That's a lot of pee.

RedRose wrote:Does not matter, as Archie can create any amount of Soilder's that may be needed

RedRose wrote:

Mech Viper Prime wrote:What's the ratio of men to women in the number 28,000

Does not matter, as Archie can create any amount of Soilder's that may be needed
More troops brought to bere then the Coalition, and at a faster pace, higher quality!

RedRose wrote:

Mech Viper Prime wrote:Really? Archie has a clone lab now too?

Cloning would take month's or years, Archie could simply out produce
any nation on Rifts North America, for Bots. Of a higher quality, then
anyone else too.

Cyber-Knight wrote:I don't know about numbers, but ARCHIE's robots are certainly better. He's created the lifelike Shemarrian Warriors and Argent Steel. Nobody else in North America is remotely capable of performing such a feat. He's even created his own fake Skelebots. Copies so perfect that they're undetectable by the Coalition. His robots are so advanced that they're considered alien technology, and that was before he was able to reverse engineer Mechanoid technology.

RedRose wrote:And what of the Cyber Knights? Would they ally themselves to such a Force, for Good justice and the American way ?

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

ffranceschi wrote:

Mack wrote:And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

Agreed. 28.000 are too few to upset the balance...frontal assault against the CS or Free Qeubec and they are dead...besides they are human after all and I think they will prefer to engage the Splugorth at their East Coast bases.

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Rappanui wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Despite All your bravado about the man. Archie is Still Smarter then he is. And his psychic abilities negate any security he would have. For god sakes, if a CHIMPANZEE SCIENTIST CAN BREAK LONESTAR SECURITY... Archie can do it much more simply. The only reason he hasn't copied cloning centers is that he has no NEED for it, and, with the mechanoid invasion attempt, He may already have human cloning facilities available.
The only reason Hagan hasn't gone along with that plan, is that HE himself thinks himself a god, and not a human, and sees cloning as lowly.also note, the various BS articles about Cryptography that did appear in the rifter get many things wrong. Any encryption scheme a regular human can break, can be broken just as quickly, easily with an IQ of 300. All it requires is math that wasn't invented yet (BACK WHEN RIFTS WAS MADE).
(yes, that means even the vaulted Time key based encryption, as they discussed, is breakable, and would be common knowledge among tech super powers and not this impossible Bs that the Coaltion supposedly has. if BS power can invent machines that are totally tamper proof (which is IMO, Impossible, unless you can program some sort of psychic link into machines, which, YOU CAN NOT, Such as the recent articles about archie's imitator mages, and new " you can't use any power from the main books to stop" implants shouldn't be able to exist (Imo, i blame poor ideas/the Writers) for this).. then breaking into Lonestar's labs, and hacking what ever computers he may have, or bio computers... would be a cinch.

Nightmask wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

A point of clarification, ARCHIE-3 doesn't need an 'idea man', but in regards to ideas for things to build it helps having another creative mind supporting it. I get the impression some think ARCHIE-3 is somehow incapable of coming up with new ideas and plans which isn't the case.

Cyber-Knight wrote:

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Yeah, how many robots IS that? Is it stated anywhere in any book how many robots ARCHIE has at his disposal?

taalismn wrote:Depends. A3 is quite clever, true, and could churn out his own designs, but I think that he suffers an undeclared lack of self-confidence when it comes to more radical and innovative ideas(beyond that of him becoming a machine god, that is). He needs somebody else as his support and mental crutch when it comes to such(though he doesn't see it in those terms and would kill anybody who suggested such was the case).
In any case, Bradford's a biology man and wouldn't be likely to think much of a machine aping human behavior. If course, if Bradford bought the whole 'ARCHIE -OZ' brain-scam he MIGHT see things differently, but at the same time he'd REALLY want a cell sample(or whole lobe sample) of that big brain for his own study.

Hystrix wrote:

Cyber-Knight wrote:

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Yeah, how many robots IS that? Is it stated anywhere in any book how many robots ARCHIE has at his disposal?

If you add up the numbers in Rifts Sourcebook One Revised, and Shemerrian Nation then we are talking about 40,000+ bots.

RedRose wrote:

Rappanui wrote:The books mention he can make 10,000 bots a month. Mechanoid
cloning facilities that he still has allow 10 times that number.

Where is this at ?

And might I add HOLY COW !! Thats 100,000 he could create (is this his max?)

RedRose wrote:

Looonatic wrote:He would probably need a constant influx of material and resources to
maintain that pace for the long term

If Shemarrian Nation is to be believed, Archie might well be thee single most
economically stable economy on North America.

It goes into depth of how he has vast storages of resources, how he finds them, buys
them, and everything.

Here is a hint, Literally decades of income coming in and ZERO outflow unless you want
it to, (buying of resources, such as raw materials)

His Titan Robotic's is 100% completely overhead income with out question. His ability
to produce Glitterboy's and sell them if he so chooses. (Decades of this with ease)

His vast robot legion of resource hunters to help out all his needs.

To put it bluntly, Archie has more resources at his disposal according to Shemarrian
Nation's as every other manufacturer of weapons in North America combined

I just had zero clue on how many bots he could produce a month 100,000 combat troops
in a month is just insane, No nation (save altantis) could compete with that.

RedRose wrote:

Looonatic wrote:He would probably need a constant influx of material and resources to
maintain that pace for the long term

If Shemarrian Nation is to be believed, Archie might well be thee single most
economically stable economy on North America.

It goes into depth of how he has vast storages of resources, how he finds them, buys
them, and everything.

Here is a hint, Literally decades of income coming in and ZERO outflow unless you want
it to, (buying of resources, such as raw materials)

His Titan Robotic's is 100% completely overhead income with out question. His ability
to produce Glitterboy's and sell them if he so chooses. (Decades of this with ease)

His vast robot legion of resource hunters to help out all his needs.

To put it bluntly, Archie has more resources at his disposal according to Shemarrian
Nation's as every other manufacturer of weapons in North America combined

I just had zero clue on how many bots he could produce a month 100,000 combat troops
in a month is just insane, No nation (save altantis) could compete with that.

RedRose wrote:

Rappanui wrote:It's not his max, The 10,000 number is how many he can make at Aberdeen.
Archie has created 4 more facilities including one that is underwater.
by canon, (Read through the Rifters, particularly the Ardent one) The
cloning faciilites left by the mechanoids allow for 10 x as many.

So are you telling me that archie could produce 40,000 robots a month.

Prior to the mechanoid invasion, at which point he can now produce 10x
that number to an incredible 400k per month ?

RedRose wrote:400,000 robots a month would be enough production rate, to literally take out the Coalition's military in 6 month's time.

Not even sweatin to the oldies either.

RedRose wrote:

Hystrix wrote: think at 400k bots a month you have to start questioning the resouces
Archie has in order to make that many.

Shemarrian Nation goes in depth to show you just how vast
Archie's resources are, and that is why I can say with out hesitation
or much thought that Archie has resources to do anything he wants.

it actually goes into vast depth to show you how he has soo much resouces
that it is a logical jump with out any stretch of the imagination to think
he is more then capable enough to do this.

RedRose wrote:

Source?

I've read Shemerrian Nation as well. I haven't seen anything that implies he can create a staggering 4.8 million robots a year!

I'm not surprised to read this considering, but I don't buy it.

Already stated in the post you quoted.

The number's are canon. His resources are equally solid as well. Archie appear's to be thee only power on north american soil, with the backing to support what is written about him. Resource wise.