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Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

stock can be sold in different classes, with the company setting what each class represents.
it is possible the naruni sell their stock with no option for control of the company. (Preferred Stock)
the shares might have originally been offered as rewards to valued customers or as a way to gain access to specific markets, which were then sold and bought on the intergalactic stock market as the company's value climbed.

given that the Naruni are an interdimensional company. i doubt there are many regulations to prevent the company from listing itself on multiple markets in different dimensions, basically selling multiple copies of their stocks across the multiverse.

that would let Thraxus have more than 100%.. he'd have sizable shares in each of the universes Naruni is listed.. in effect owning multiple copies of each share, resulting in a combined total of over 100%.
so for example;
Dimension A the naruni have sold 100% of their shares in the local market, and thraxus owns 30%.
Dimension B naruni have sold the same 100% of their shares, and thraxus owns 40%
Dimension C the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%,
Dimension D the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%
etc.

highly unethical on both their parts, but without regular interdimensional co-ordination, there is nothing to prevent it.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

A few points to address/rebut the points and observations that you made. In no particular order.

• Perhaps the True Naruni are just "having fun" in their own way and they respect Thraxus's prowess as a "money warrior." Furthermore, I would guess that since they are so very business-oriented to the Nth degree, that the True Naruni as a whole is absolutely aberrant in their business dealings and they'll let him continue to keep his holdings for as long as he's sharp enough to keep ahold of them.
  (Hell, they probably even -reluctantly -use his methods to train their newest employees!)
• Just because Pyramid "technology" is pretty much the ultimate way to ship cargo, might it not very well be the case that the Naruni simply have been to more places throughout the Megaverse (in search of new market opportunities) than the Splugorth have been?
  
  It seems to me that Splynncryth is the exception, not the rule, to his "species," and the primary goal of most other Splugorth is conquering and making other sentients' lives a living hell, not trading.
• Naruni gear probably flourishes so well, despite its limitations, because their markets are so wdespread throughout the Megaverse.
  In the Palladium Megaverse, magic doesn't really seem to be all that prevalent in a very large portion of their games -at least, not to the extent that it "rules over all" in places like Palladium and Rifts Earth and Nightbane Earth -and there are therefore PLENTY of places where Naruni products do just fine.
  
  And as Rifts Earth proves, even high-magic places don't exactly have you tripping over a mage every step you take.

glitterboy2098 wrote:stock can be sold in different classes, with the company setting what each class represents.
it is possible the naruni sell their stock with no option for control of the company. (Preferred Stock)
the shares might have originally been offered as rewards to valued customers or as a way to gain access to specific markets, which were then sold and bought on the intergalactic stock market as the company's value climbed.

given that the Naruni are an interdimensional company. i doubt there are many regulations to prevent the company from listing itself on multiple markets in different dimensions, basically selling multiple copies of their stocks across the multiverse.

that would let Thraxus have more than 100%.. he'd have sizable shares in each of the universes Naruni is listed.. in effect owning multiple copies of each share, resulting in a combined total of over 100%.
so for example;
Dimension A the naruni have sold 100% of their shares in the local market, and thraxus owns 30%.
Dimension B naruni have sold the same 100% of their shares, and thraxus owns 40%
Dimension C the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%,
Dimension D the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%
etc.

highly unethical on both their parts, but without regular interdimensional co-ordination, there is nothing to prevent it.

Sounds good in theory, but considering how tight Naruni's operations are conveyed as being, and as meticulous as their inventory and accounts receiveable are, it's clear there IS a lot of interdimensional co-ordination

cornholioprime wrote:A few points to address/rebut the points and observations that you made. In no particular order.

• Perhaps the True Naruni are just "having fun" in their own way and they respect Thraxus's prowess as a "money warrior." Furthermore, I would guess that since they are so very business-oriented to the Nth degree, that the True Naruni as a whole is absolutely aberrant in their business dealings and they'll let him continue to keep his holdings for as long as he's sharp enough to keep ahold of them.
  (Hell, they probably even -reluctantly -use his methods to train their newest employees!)
• Just because Pyramid "technology" is pretty much the ultimate way to ship cargo, might it not very well be the case that the Naruni simply have been to more places throughout the Megaverse (in search of new market opportunities) than the Splugorth have been?
  
  It seems to me that Splynncryth is the exception, not the rule, to his "species," and the primary goal of most other Splugorth is conquering and making other sentients' lives a living hell, not trading.
• Naruni gear probably flourishes so well, despite its limitations, because their markets are so wdespread throughout the Megaverse.
  In the Palladium Megaverse, magic doesn't really seem to be all that prevalent in a very large portion of their games -at least, not to the extent that it "rules over all" in places like Palladium and Rifts Earth and Nightbane Earth -and there are therefore PLENTY of places where Naruni products do just fine.
  
  And as Rifts Earth proves, even high-magic places don't exactly have you tripping over a mage every step you take.

Point 1: True to an extent, but it's an excuse that it's easy to over-use. "Why does X alien race do strange illogical thing" "Because they have alien psycology, they don't think like people do"

Well, okay, yea, you can use a lot of handwave that way. but if you use it like this, it makes it almost impossible to see what they ARE like.

Why do the Noro in the CCW so happy playing second-fiddle to humans dispite being universally smarter and better with techology and psychic to boot? because they simply arn't as competitive. Okay, yea, I can see a really smart race not wanting to run the show.

But on the other hand, the True Naruni are explicitly hyper competitive to a littearlly inhuman degree. To say that Thraxus is a better naruni than any naruni is to say Tom Cruse is a better samurai than all the actual samurai. Yes, it's entirelylikely that they really do come to respect him as a kindred spirit. That dosn't mean they'll be happy following his orders for thousands of years.

Point 2: I wouldn't call pyramids "technology", but the clarke debate aside, it's actually explicitly stated somewhere that Splurgorth operations are much more widespread, as a whole. Naruni's operations are bigger than any individual splurgorth, but not them as a group--and it's a real thorn in their side that the naruni "upstarts" are starting to compete with them on a scale that's actually impacting their racial bottom line.

Point 3: That's true. but you missed my point: The United Worlds of Warlock are the third largest power block in the three galaxies: In terms of real estate, military, money and influence.

Lets put it this way. Lets say it's the hight of the middle ages, and you have Great Brittan, France, and Spain all competing for trade, land, power, and prestige. Lets say your a gun manufactuer. Lets say that your weapons were /completely useless/ aginst one of these three. how much do you think they would sell?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:stock can be sold in different classes, with the company setting what each class represents.
it is possible the naruni sell their stock with no option for control of the company. (Preferred Stock)
the shares might have originally been offered as rewards to valued customers or as a way to gain access to specific markets, which were then sold and bought on the intergalactic stock market as the company's value climbed.

given that the Naruni are an interdimensional company. i doubt there are many regulations to prevent the company from listing itself on multiple markets in different dimensions, basically selling multiple copies of their stocks across the multiverse.

that would let Thraxus have more than 100%.. he'd have sizable shares in each of the universes Naruni is listed.. in effect owning multiple copies of each share, resulting in a combined total of over 100%.
so for example;
Dimension A the naruni have sold 100% of their shares in the local market, and thraxus owns 30%.
Dimension B naruni have sold the same 100% of their shares, and thraxus owns 40%
Dimension C the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%,
Dimension D the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%
etc.

highly unethical on both their parts, but without regular interdimensional co-ordination, there is nothing to prevent it.

Sounds good in theory, but considering how tight Naruni's operations are conveyed as being, and as meticulous as their inventory and accounts receiveable are, it's clear there IS a lot of interdimensional co-ordination

highly co-ordinated on the naruni side of things. but if dimensions A, B, C, and D have no contact with each other, how are they to co-ordinate their stock markets? how are they to even know that the naruni are running an interdimensional stock market scam if they don't even know the other universes exist? the naruni can operate freely without anyone in one universe knowing what the naruni are doing in other universes.

the naruni, being interdimensional, can co-ordinate their operations across multiple realities, but each of those realities is effectively self contained in regards to local opposition and competition.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

I thought your focus was more on "Promethians should outdo them" (Dragon god/whatever ruling them aside), rather than breaking down what weakness's or flaws in the naruni scheme on it's own is.

I always kinda saw the True Naruni and Thraxus as kindred spirits in business: both conduct business in a ruthless, cutthroat manner. Both will ALWAYS collect on their debts. Both, should someone get one up on them, get retribution, one way or another. Both are power hungry and tend to play some dangerous cat and mouse games with those they associate with. It has, however, always been my mind set that there is a distinct difference between the paths these two will take to achieve the same ends.

For example: Should a True Naruni get one upped by a subordinate and have their power base subverted, will be driven to take some kind of a revenge upon those who bested them. Should be considered as a "lesser creature" that drive is increased to the nth degree.

If Thraxus were put in a similar situation. I would put money on him chuckling over the entertaining game. Give a, "Good show, old chap..." And then either cut his loses and walk away, knowing he's been bested by a worthy adversary or begin planning his next "game" with this/these individual(s). Now, I'm not saying Thraxus is some kind of unmotivated swine. Quite the contrary, as Neky has pointed out, Thraxus started off with nothing of what he has now and either earned, stole, cajoled, swindled and/or, in some other manner, acquired everything he has now. He fully understands that no matter how much the odds may be stacked in someone's favor, they can still lose and vice versa.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

I thought your focus was more on "Promethians should outdo them" (Dragon god/whatever ruling them aside), rather than breaking down what weakness's or flaws in the naruni scheme on it's own is.

The fact that the Prometheans weapons technologies are much better than the naruni should give the Prometheans the edge in becoming the number one weapons company in the 3 galaxies.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

I thought your focus was more on "Promethians should outdo them" (Dragon god/whatever ruling them aside), rather than breaking down what weakness's or flaws in the naruni scheme on it's own is.

The fact that the Prometheans weapons technologies are much better than the naruni should give the Prometheans the edge in becoming the number one weapons company in the 3 galaxies.

Not the only factor, but this is more "Why Naruni Is" and not "Why they shouldn't be"

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

I thought your focus was more on "Promethians should outdo them" (Dragon god/whatever ruling them aside), rather than breaking down what weakness's or flaws in the naruni scheme on it's own is.

The fact that the Prometheans weapons technologies are much better than the naruni should give the Prometheans the edge in becoming the number one weapons company in the 3 galaxies.

A simple force field completely blocks a phase weapon, if you've got one (and force field technology is just about everywhere thanks to Naruni Enterprises) said phase weapons aren't going to do any better than a Naruni weapon, and unlike Phase weapons any competent engineer can repair a Naruni weapon whereas Phase weapons have to be fixed by a promethean who happen to be as rare as their weapons. So no Promethean weapons aren't that much better than Naruni weapons.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Spinning off from a houseruled version of the same discussion, this thread is supposed to look for cannon examples of Thraxus's power and counterpoints to it.

First let me preface this by saying this: I love Thraxus. To me, he's an example of what the oldest PC's can aspire to. He started as many PC's do, a mere adventurer seeking fame and fortune. In time he gathers both, in vast quantities, and power too, and like most he decided to retire. What's different is he went for a working retirement. He longer goes on adventures himself, but knowing what a small group of disparate and desperate individuals with nothing to lose are capable of, funds new adventuring parties constantly. a quest-giver rather than taker, he reaps rewards with minimal risks. Instead of simply dumping his fortune into the vast vaults he spent his eairly years breaking into, he bought a stake in a large company and, calling upon the vast network of resources and favors he had established, leverages a takeover of a major galatic power. then not content with that, he spends several mellenia of wheeling and dealing, increasing the scope of naruni's operations from one dimension to many, from a galatic power to an intergalatic one. And all the while he keeps a keen eye out for those who remind him of his youth, those with vast potential to shake the pillars of the galaxy, and gains their loyalty through patronage--or elimates those who are too dangerous and cannot be swayed. And he always claims his debts--one way or another. He's not the best example of a moral person--slavery, blackmail, and murder are just tools in his arsenal, but I always got the sense that anything he did, you can do better. All you need is time, luck, and guts.

But with that said, there's a valid argument to be made that he's gone too far too fast. I don't necessarly agree with it, but there are points to consider.

One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something. This was later retconned so he owned not enough to control outright, but rather was the leader of the faction currently in charge. This makes a great deal of sense, although I don't see anything wrong with saying he owned 51%. But that does beg the question of why would the True Naruni let control of their race slip out of their own hands.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is. Sure, not everyone is a mage or can use TW Tech, but the UWW is so prevalient that it's not hard to hire someone that can if it's really an issue.

So what are your thoughts. and please--cannon sources only!

Precisely why I say Naruni should never have been the number one weapons manufacturer in the megaverse if not for writer's fiat!

I thought your focus was more on "Promethians should outdo them" (Dragon god/whatever ruling them aside), rather than breaking down what weakness's or flaws in the naruni scheme on it's own is.

The fact that the Prometheans weapons technologies are much better than the naruni should give the Prometheans the edge in becoming the number one weapons company in the 3 galaxies.

A simple force field completely blocks a phase weapon, if you've got one (and force field technology is just about everywhere thanks to Naruni Enterprises) said phase weapons aren't going to do any better than a Naruni weapon, and unlike Phase weapons any competent engineer can repair a Naruni weapon whereas Phase weapons have to be fixed by a promethean who happen to be as rare as their weapons. So no Promethean weapons aren't that much better than Naruni weapons.

If the Prometheans can create advanced weaponry like phase weapons, do you think they are gonna have any problems creating mundane energy weapons and force fields like the Naruni products?

In My Game, the Prometheans are selling products similar to the Naruni products at a cheaper price and they are also manufacturing Naruni weapons and equipment which are twice as powerful as the standard ones but those ones would be reserved for in-house forces.

In case you don't get it by now, I am not exactly playing a canon game.

glitterboy2098 wrote:stock can be sold in different classes, with the company setting what each class represents.
it is possible the naruni sell their stock with no option for control of the company. (Preferred Stock)
the shares might have originally been offered as rewards to valued customers or as a way to gain access to specific markets, which were then sold and bought on the intergalactic stock market as the company's value climbed.

given that the Naruni are an interdimensional company. i doubt there are many regulations to prevent the company from listing itself on multiple markets in different dimensions, basically selling multiple copies of their stocks across the multiverse.

that would let Thraxus have more than 100%.. he'd have sizable shares in each of the universes Naruni is listed.. in effect owning multiple copies of each share, resulting in a combined total of over 100%.
so for example;
Dimension A the naruni have sold 100% of their shares in the local market, and thraxus owns 30%.
Dimension B naruni have sold the same 100% of their shares, and thraxus owns 40%
Dimension C the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%,
Dimension D the naruni have sold the same 100% again, and thraxus owns 20%
etc.

highly unethical on both their parts, but without regular interdimensional co-ordination, there is nothing to prevent it.

Btw Thraxus is suppose to only hold 5% of the stock in Naruni as stated in Dimensions Books 2 Phase World.

There is no way he holds 50% Naruni Stock as stated in Anvil Galaxies and yet the Naruni and Uteni Traders themselves hold 60%. And we have not even factor in the stock held by the Demon Lord and Alien Intelligence yet. If we add in all the stock held by these major stockholders, the total percentage of stock would be more than 110% which is totally mathematically wrong. The 50% stock held by Thraxus is a misprint and is supposed to be 5%.

Also, do you think the Naruni would let any outsider, least of all a mere godly, grab as much stock at 50%? They would eliminate him first. After all Thraxus is just a mere godling and not even a full God, much less an Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God. What hopes or power does he have of obtaining so much stock if not for writer's fiat?

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:A simple force field completely blocks a phase weapon, if you've got one (and force field technology is just about everywhere thanks to Naruni Enterprises) said phase weapons aren't going to do any better than a Naruni weapon, and unlike Phase weapons any competent engineer can repair a Naruni weapon whereas Phase weapons have to be fixed by a promethean who happen to be as rare as their weapons. So no Promethean weapons aren't that much better than Naruni weapons.

If the Prometheans can create advanced weaponry like phase weapons, do you think they are gonna have any problems creating mundane energy weapons and force fields like the Naruni products?

In My Game, the Prometheans are selling products similar to the Naruni products at a cheaper price and they are also manufacturing Naruni weapons and equipment which are twice as powerful as the standard ones but those ones would be reserved for in-house forces.

In case you don't get it by now, I am not exactly playing a canon game.

If all you can do is say 'in my game...' to everything there's not really any reason to waste time posting when a thread is discussing what's in the books and not in your game. You may want to hype 'your game' at every opportunity but no one particularly cares that in your game Prometheans behave like Ferengi taken up to eleven, not when they're trying to discuss what's in the books where Prometheans don't act anything like your version does. Prometheans aren't the weapons suppliers of the 3 galaxies (that would be the Naruni), nor are they the Ferengi of the 3 galaxies (that would be again the Naruni), and the only weapons we know that Prometheans produce have a big problem with even a low grade, really weak force field let alone the high-end versions used in things like spaceships and power armor.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:A simple force field completely blocks a phase weapon, if you've got one (and force field technology is just about everywhere thanks to Naruni Enterprises) said phase weapons aren't going to do any better than a Naruni weapon, and unlike Phase weapons any competent engineer can repair a Naruni weapon whereas Phase weapons have to be fixed by a promethean who happen to be as rare as their weapons. So no Promethean weapons aren't that much better than Naruni weapons.

If the Prometheans can create advanced weaponry like phase weapons, do you think they are gonna have any problems creating mundane energy weapons and force fields like the Naruni products?

In My Game, the Prometheans are selling products similar to the Naruni products at a cheaper price and they are also manufacturing Naruni weapons and equipment which are twice as powerful as the standard ones but those ones would be reserved for in-house forces.

In case you don't get it by now, I am not exactly playing a canon game.

If all you can do is say 'in my game...' to everything there's not really any reason to waste time posting when a thread is discussing what's in the books and not in your game. You may want to hype 'your game' at every opportunity but no one particularly cares that in your game Prometheans behave like Ferengi taken up to eleven, not when they're trying to discuss what's in the books where Prometheans don't act anything like your version does. Prometheans aren't the weapons suppliers of the 3 galaxies (that would be the Naruni), nor are they the Ferengi of the 3 galaxies (that would be again the Naruni), and the only weapons we know that Prometheans produce have a big problem with even a low grade, really weak force field let alone the high-end versions used in things like spaceships and power armor.

You do know that phase weapons destroy force field don't you?

Phase weapons: stopped by force fields only
Naruni weapons : stopped by force fields & armors until both are destroyed

Which weapon would you buy?

Thraxus is Thraxus... moving on.

DhAkael wrote:Thraxus is Thraxus... moving on.

Yes Thraxus is Thraxus and he ain't Zeus or Odin .. not by a long shot.

Put it this way: Thraxus is the ultimate Marty Stu (Male version of the Mary Sue), and thus is given plot immunity to pretty much thumb his nose at even Chronos or, dare I say it, Xy.

He's rich from investments across the megaverse (who cares about Naruni Enterprises; they're pikers in the grand scheme of things).
He's got several demi gods and even GODS owing him favours.
He's (if Kevin Simebiada is to be believed) even punched out C'thullu's even-more-evil-twin-brother in game in the Palladium Fantasy setting.

So yeah, he's all that. Thus my statement previously; Thraxus is Thraxus... MOVING ON!

P.S.; If someone can't stand him, use a wide-tipped permanent black marker and "black out" American Goverment Style all mention of him in your various Palladium product books. There see? Now he's no longer part of the campiagn universe or meta plot.

DhAkael wrote:Put it this way: Thraxus is the ultimate Marty Stu (Male version of the Mary Sue), and thus is given plot immunity to pretty much thumb his nose at even Chronos or, dare I say it, Xy.

He's rich from investments across the megaverse (who cares about Naruni Enterprises; they're pikers in the grand scheme of things).
He's got several demi gods and even GODS owing him favours.
He's (if Kevin Simebiada is to be believed) even punched out C'thullu's even-more-evil-twin-brother in game in the Palladium Fantasy setting.

So yeah, he's all that. Thus my statement previously; Thraxus is Thraxus... MOVING ON!

P.S.; If someone can't stand him, use a wide-tipped permanent black marker and "black out" American Goverment Style all mention of him in your various Palladium product books. There see? Now he's no longer part of the campiagn universe or meta plot.

Okay, I gotta ask, are you serious? Thraxus was used in one of Kevins games? and he fought a what? old one or some kind of fragment/witch?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Put it this way: Thraxus is the ultimate Marty Stu (Male version of the Mary Sue), and thus is given plot immunity to pretty much thumb his nose at even Chronos or, dare I say it, Xy.

He's rich from investments across the megaverse (who cares about Naruni Enterprises; they're pikers in the grand scheme of things).
He's got several demi gods and even GODS owing him favours.
He's (if Kevin Simebiada is to be believed) even punched out C'thullu's even-more-evil-twin-brother in game in the Palladium Fantasy setting.

So yeah, he's all that. Thus my statement previously; Thraxus is Thraxus... MOVING ON!

P.S.; If someone can't stand him, use a wide-tipped permanent black marker and "black out" American Goverment Style all mention of him in your various Palladium product books. There see? Now he's no longer part of the campiagn universe or meta plot.

Okay, I gotta ask, are you serious? Thraxus was used in one of Kevins games? and he fought a what? old one or some kind of fragment/witch?

He's mentioned in paranthesis several times that as "One of the Defliers" Thraxus & Co. constantly did dungeon crawls of greater and greater danger and challange (when KS used to table top). Eventully Thraxus had ammased so many rings, medalions, rods, staves, potions and other mystic odds & sods that he and his mook brigade went into the Land of the Damned and other chaos regions of Palladium. Why? Because he was Thraxus-a-nearly-there-god ("...by his own hand") and yes, I beleive it is mentioned "HE" and Inglix were personally responsible for beating an Olde One back to sleep. *shrug*

It's the olde story of someone coming into another campaign years later with this heavily written over character sheet and going to the GM "Oh the +80 sword of reality smiting (tm)? I got it legitimately with my previous GM. What? No sorry, he moved out of state 5 years ago."
GM:

Sadly Kevin Siembiada is BOTH player AND GM in this case so... who's gonna question the veracity of his claims Thraxus became what he is through legitimate RP?
You and your Infra-red-clearence-soon-to-be-corpse citizen? Friend Computer says otherwise and so does the Mk XXVI warbot behind you.

DhAkael wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Put it this way: Thraxus is the ultimate Marty Stu (Male version of the Mary Sue), and thus is given plot immunity to pretty much thumb his nose at even Chronos or, dare I say it, Xy.

He's rich from investments across the megaverse (who cares about Naruni Enterprises; they're pikers in the grand scheme of things).
He's got several demi gods and even GODS owing him favours.
He's (if Kevin Simebiada is to be believed) even punched out C'thullu's even-more-evil-twin-brother in game in the Palladium Fantasy setting.

So yeah, he's all that. Thus my statement previously; Thraxus is Thraxus... MOVING ON!

P.S.; If someone can't stand him, use a wide-tipped permanent black marker and "black out" American Goverment Style all mention of him in your various Palladium product books. There see? Now he's no longer part of the campiagn universe or meta plot.

Okay, I gotta ask, are you serious? Thraxus was used in one of Kevins games? and he fought a what? old one or some kind of fragment/witch?

He's mentioned in paranthesis several times that as "One of the Defliers" Thraxus & Co. constantly did dungeon crawls of greater and greater danger and challange (when KS used to table top). Eventully Thraxus had ammased so many rings, medalions, rods, staves, potions and other mystic odds & sods that he and his mook brigade went into the Land of the Damned and other chaos regions of Palladium. Why? Because he was Thraxus-a-nearly-there-god ("...by his own hand") and yes, I beleive it is mentioned "HE" and Inglix were personally responsible for beating an Olde One back to sleep. *shrug*

It's the olde story of someone coming into another campaign years later with this heavily written over character sheet and going to the GM "Oh the +80 sword of reality smiting (tm)? I got it legitimately with my previous GM. What? No sorry, he moved out of state 5 years ago."
GM:

Sadly Kevin Siembiada is BOTH player AND GM in this case so... who's gonna question the veracity of his claims Thraxus became what he is through legitimate RP?
You and your Infra-red-clearence-soon-to-be-corpse citizen? Friend Computer says otherwise and so does the Mk XXVI warbot behind you.

Hate to disagree with you man, but I'm pretty sure Thraxus and his buddy Inglix the mad (PW 2) Were both CJ original creations.

Jay05 wrote:

DhAkael wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Put it this way: Thraxus is the ultimate Marty Stu (Male version of the Mary Sue), and thus is given plot immunity to pretty much thumb his nose at even Chronos or, dare I say it, Xy.

He's rich from investments across the megaverse (who cares about Naruni Enterprises; they're pikers in the grand scheme of things).
He's got several demi gods and even GODS owing him favours.
He's (if Kevin Simebiada is to be believed) even punched out C'thullu's even-more-evil-twin-brother in game in the Palladium Fantasy setting.

So yeah, he's all that. Thus my statement previously; Thraxus is Thraxus... MOVING ON!

P.S.; If someone can't stand him, use a wide-tipped permanent black marker and "black out" American Goverment Style all mention of him in your various Palladium product books. There see? Now he's no longer part of the campiagn universe or meta plot.

Okay, I gotta ask, are you serious? Thraxus was used in one of Kevins games? and he fought a what? old one or some kind of fragment/witch?

He's mentioned in paranthesis several times that as "One of the Defliers" Thraxus & Co. constantly did dungeon crawls of greater and greater danger and challange (when KS used to table top). Eventully Thraxus had ammased so many rings, medalions, rods, staves, potions and other mystic odds & sods that he and his mook brigade went into the Land of the Damned and other chaos regions of Palladium. Why? Because he was Thraxus-a-nearly-there-god ("...by his own hand") and yes, I beleive it is mentioned "HE" and Inglix were personally responsible for beating an Olde One back to sleep. *shrug*

It's the olde story of someone coming into another campaign years later with this heavily written over character sheet and going to the GM "Oh the +80 sword of reality smiting (tm)? I got it legitimately with my previous GM. What? No sorry, he moved out of state 5 years ago."
GM:

Sadly Kevin Siembiada is BOTH player AND GM in this case so... who's gonna question the veracity of his claims Thraxus became what he is through legitimate RP?
You and your Infra-red-clearence-soon-to-be-corpse citizen? Friend Computer says otherwise and so does the Mk XXVI warbot behind you.

Hate to disagree with you man, but I'm pretty sure Thraxus and his buddy Inglix the mad (PW 2) Were both CJ original creations.

Sadly, it is next to impossible to actualy get a response from "The man" himself to confirm or deny (see above 2nd. post).

Hi there!

Thraxus and NE:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:One, it's physically impossible for him to own as much stock as he does--the total precentages of Naruni shares in the PW main book amounted to 110% or something.

Well, looking at the world as in 2012, it is not really suprising, nor impossible.

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

Pyramids not really suitable for hauling 100k ton space cruisers. Also, was it ever written HOW the NE travels between dimensions?

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

More like Imp. to energy, but that is just a side issue. NE force fields, micro missiles? For heavier stuff - Broadsword, Fire Eater, Ovoid f.ex. - they use railguns and missiles.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is.

In short, it is like claiming firearms useless because kevlar exists.

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:

Two: Logistics. Really, the Splurgorthian pyramids are an almost unbeatable advantage. They don't have to ship product from world to world, just let us build a pyramid on your planet and your guns can show up the same day you order. True, Kittani tech isn't as good, and many worlds have moral objections to letting splurgorth in. but you don't need them on every world. Just set up a pyramid-based distribution scheme and you can ship anywhere faster than any other faction. I always felt that phase world really underplayed the splurgorthian logistical edge.

Pyramids not really suitable for hauling 100k ton space cruisers. Also, was it ever written HOW the NE travels between dimensions?

There are space-pyramids carved from asteroids mentioned somewhere IIRC.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

More like Imp. to energy, but that is just a side issue. NE force fields, micro missiles? For heavier stuff - Broadsword, Fire Eater, Ovoid f.ex. - they use railguns and missiles.

Sure, they have a few mundane offerings, but that's not the bulk of their sales by any means

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is.

In short, it is like claiming firearms useless because kevlar exists.

Adios
KLM

No. It's not even close actually. You can get bigger guns to punch through kevlar. or just shoot many times--it falls to repeated shots. or shoot somewhere the armor dosn't cover.

Imp. to fire or energy is 100% immunity. you could have an army of 20,000 people all firing plasma cannons at once for an hour and the guy would littearlly feel absolutely nothing.

You can kill someone in kevlar with guns, it just takes a bit more doing. You can't kill someone with Imp. to fire with plasma. full stop.

Hi there!

Nekira Sudacne wrote:There are space-pyramids carved from asteroids mentioned somewhere IIRC.

As for means of NE interdimensional transportation? Thought I for myself use Astral Realms from Nightbane.

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

More like Imp. to energy, but that is just a side issue. NE force fields, micro missiles? For heavier stuff - Broadsword, Fire Eater, Ovoid f.ex. - they use railguns and missiles.

Sure, they have a few mundane offerings, but that's not the bulk of their sales by any means

Err... You specifically asked for canon sources. So, is there anything that sets their market supply in stone?

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is.

In short, it is like claiming firearms useless because kevlar exists.

Adios
KLM

No. It's not even close actually. You can get bigger guns to punch through kevlar. or just shoot many times--it falls to repeated shots. or shoot somewhere the armor dosn't cover.

Imp. to fire or energy is 100% immunity. you could have an army of 20,000 people all firing plasma cannons at once for an hour and the guy would littearlly feel absolutely nothing.

Actually, even the canonically impervious Shadow Bolt fighter IS hurt by plasma - at least one can blast away the Armor of Ithan force field with plasma, to pave the way for a few CG slugs or missiles.

And also, getting 24/7 protection costs money/resources. All which is useless against the "other" hot NE commodity, the K-Hex toys
(missiles, grenades).

So, when I desing armies/navies in the 3G's, I always count for "Imp. to energy" (or Cosmo Knights for that matter) - but do not equip and train most of the forces against it. They will have some capability as well as specialised units, but also pack energy weapons (for their unlimited ammo capability) in case of a Star Hive need some "population control".

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:Hi there!

Nekira Sudacne wrote:There are space-pyramids carved from asteroids mentioned somewhere IIRC.

As for means of NE interdimensional transportation? Thought I for myself use Astral Realms from Nightbane.

No, No, I mean the splurgorth use them to transport ships. I wasn't speculating

and three, and in my mind the biggest: Naruni sells almost entirely plasma weapons. Weapons that become useless aginst a third level spell: impervious to fire. A spell that is trivial for the United Worlds of Warlocks, the third-largest power in teh galaxy, to put on every peice of equipment they make.

More like Imp. to energy, but that is just a side issue. NE force fields, micro missiles? For heavier stuff - Broadsword, Fire Eater, Ovoid f.ex. - they use railguns and missiles.

Sure, they have a few mundane offerings, but that's not the bulk of their sales by any means

Err... You specifically asked for canon sources. So, is there anything that sets their market supply in stone?

Supply? take a look again, Naruni is clearly focused on plasma weaponry. over half of their products involve it.

In short, Naruni gear is rendered useless so easially it's a wonder it's as popular as it is.

In short, it is like claiming firearms useless because kevlar exists.

Adios
KLM

No. It's not even close actually. You can get bigger guns to punch through kevlar. or just shoot many times--it falls to repeated shots. or shoot somewhere the armor dosn't cover.

Imp. to fire or energy is 100% immunity. you could have an army of 20,000 people all firing plasma cannons at once for an hour and the guy would littearlly feel absolutely nothing.

Actually, even the canonically impervious Shadow Bolt fighter IS hurt by plasma - at least one can blast away the Armor of Ithan force field with plasma, to pave the way for a few CG slugs or missiles.

actually, nothing says the armor of ithan force feild is vunerable to plasma. and even if it was, it wouldn't effect my point at all. you still need other weapons to destroy the ship.

And also, getting 24/7 protection costs money/resources. All which is useless against the "other" hot NE commodity, the K-Hex toys
(missiles, grenades).

So, when I desing armies/navies in the 3G's, I always count for "Imp. to energy" (or Cosmo Knights for that matter) - but do not equip and train most of the forces against it. They will have some capability as well as specialised units, but also pack energy weapons (for their unlimited ammo capability) in case of a Star Hive need some "population control".

Adios
KLM

I didn't say Imp. to energy, I said Imp. to fire, which is a lot easier and cheeper to install by the TW rules.

Hi there!

OK, I will cut out a lot:

1, We still do not know how the NE transports between dimensions (thought they have the Commodity-class) or faster than "conventional" FTL.

2, The NE markets a lot of plasma weaponry. Yepp, but no word about the composition of sales - we can have three dozen types of plasma, and
only two types of CG railguns if the latter two makes 90% of the actual sales.

3, Impervious to energy enchanted Armor of Ithan - NO. That is called Invulnerability. And as far as I know, there is only the Arcane X, in DMB6 pg144,
which has it.

4, Also, I would not say magic enchantment is commonplace. One can find it all right, any self-respecting planetary defense force would have a
few units (say a squadron, even a wing or two of Shadow Bolts - augmenting the THOUSANDS of conventional starfighters.).

Given that Thraxus became the first resident in Center when it opened, he had a few thousand years to amass his fortunes. though i choc the share percentages to error in the writing.

Coake's writeup in SoT4 mentions one of his old adventure mates got turned into a godling or something like that (the same thing which made him age slowly). It makes you wonder.

Tor wrote:Coake's writeup in SoT4 mentions one of his old adventure mates got turned into a godling or something like that (the same thing which made him age slowly). It makes you wonder.

Actually, what happened was his party got a "You get one wish" and the party wished "We wish we were all gods". this was beyond the power of the wish-granter, but they all got something from it, long life at least. however, in his writeup he's clearly not a god, heck he's still an SDC being with normal strength (he has a magic belt that gives him supernatural strength, but he had that before the wish anyway)

crystaleye1950 wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Thraxus is Thraxus... moving on.

Yes Thraxus is Thraxus and he ain't Zeus or Odin .. not by a long shot.

And? We covered this in the last thread. Raw asskicking power has absolutely nothing to do with a person's ability to be a manager or leader. You're making about as much sense as you would if you claimed that there's no way Barack Obama could rule the most powerful nation on Earth when there are so many people who are better fighters than him.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Tor wrote:Coake's writeup in SoT4 mentions one of his old adventure mates got turned into a godling or something like that (the same thing which made him age slowly). It makes you wonder.

Actually, what happened was his party got a "You get one wish" and the party wished "We wish we were all gods". this was beyond the power of the wish-granter, but they all got something from it, long life at least. however, in his writeup he's clearly not a god, heck he's still an SDC being with normal strength (he has a magic belt that gives him supernatural strength, but he had that before the wish anyway)

I'm pretty sure what happened is that ONE of the party got there first and made the wish for all to be gods. The wisher himself got to be a Godling and the rest of the party got immortality (including Coake).

I bet if Thraxus was that Defiler he's kicking himself over not making the more selfish decision. He didn't get to be the full god like he wanted to be and had to settle for less for being considerate of his friends. Bet he won't make THAT mistake again.

Rallan wrote:there's no way Barack Obama could rule the most powerful nation on Earth when there are so many people who are better fighters than him.

http://www.comicbook.com/wp-content/upl ... c-book.jpg

You sure bout that?

Checking, ah, your quite right, the one who made the wish became a Godling.

Huh, so Thraxus and Inglix could indeed have been Defilers. I know Kevin doesn't come to this part of the forum much (if ever) but perhaps someone could direct Alex (who does brows the main forum fairly regularly) as he played one of the Defilers PCs so he could tell us if these two characters were or were not part of that group once and for all. Now I'm curious. And I know I know, I've ***** abut people going off topic on threads I started. If you feel I'm doing that Nekira, I apologize and please disregard.

Oh, no, I don't mind tangents--the origional topic kind of petered out anyway

I have it on good authority that Lord Coake stole his magic swords from Thraxus and that Thraxus is mad at him about that.

Tor wrote:I have it on good authority that Lord Coake stole his magic swords from Thraxus and that Thraxus is mad at him about that.

Good authority would be? Vague much? Which player of which member of the group gave you the info? Or did you ask Kevin?

In answer to this thread.
Yes.
He is hype AND substance; he is an original PC used in K.S. Palldium game ages ago, and well, C.J. Carella decided to go all-out in leveling the dude up.
*shrug*
I don't care really as Thraxus isn't all that relevant to the grand scheme of my meta-plotz.
So, feel free to argue until faces turn red blue or purple about a completely fictional character.
I'll just continue running my game off-script

[sub]Addendum: Seriously, if Thraxus doesn't work for ones game, don't use him *shrug* just white-out all text in relation to him. Myself? I keep him around but he's only background. Sorta like a Transgalactic Donald Trump.[/sub]

Jay05 wrote:Good authority would be?

It is established that Coake was a Ranger prior to founding the Cyber-Knights, which if the equivalent to a Wilderness Scout.

This is classed under the "Adventurers" category.

Everyone knows that this is what Locke Cole was. That sounds a lot like Coake doesn't it?

What did Locke call himself? A Treasure Hunter. What did Coake admit to doing? Hunting treasure with his party.

But everyone knows that Locke was really a dirty thief, and so is Coake.

In fact, they're probably the same guy. Right down to using a Genji to get 2 steal attempts per round.

Coake obviously developed his anti-technology abilities like acrobatics and clouding sensors so that he could scale walls, sneak past cameras, and become an effective thief in the modern era.

Tor wrote:

Jay05 wrote:Good authority would be?

It is established that Coake was a Ranger prior to founding the Cyber-Knights, which if the equivalent to a Wilderness Scout.

This is classed under the "Adventurers" category.

Everyone knows that this is what Locke Cole was. That sounds a lot like Coake doesn't it?

What did Locke call himself? A Treasure Hunter. What did Coake admit to doing? Hunting treasure with his party.

But everyone knows that Locke was really a dirty thief, and so is Coake.

In fact, they're probably the same guy. Right down to using a Genji to get 2 steal attempts per round.

Coake obviously developed his anti-technology abilities like acrobatics and clouding sensors so that he could scale walls, sneak past cameras, and become an effective thief in the modern era.

First off your statements above are pure conjecture nothing more. Second you didn't answer my question. Where did you get the information that told you Thraxus was involved with the defilers at all?

You do realize what I said was "Coake's writeup in SoT4 mentions one of his old adventure mates got turned into a godling or something like that (the same thing which made him age slowly). It makes you wonder." right?

As in, it's possible that he was one of them, not that we're insisting he must've been.

The bit about Coake stealing his swords from Thraxus was a joke.

Ok, fine. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it since I'd like to put to rest whether or not Thraxus and Inglix were part of the Defilers. And yes I own SOT 4 and am aware that one of the Defilers was transformed into a godling of some sort. So yes there are threads within the back stories of the characters in question that make it seem possible. However I'd like to point out that the vague possibility of connection based on the fact that they both come from similar worlds (iirc Thraxus's writeup specifies that there are rumors that he was once mortal something he apparently neither confirms nor denies.) To me the largest discrepancy in this theory as far as the writeups are concerned, is that Thraxus's write up clearly states that he is thousands of years old. 5000 at least if the records on center are to be believed. Now I know that time can be warped by dimensional travel. A difference of millenia in age however, (Coake being between 230 and 250 years old) is a large discrepancy between the two in regard to the possibility of them being contemporaries. Again, it's a theory based almost entirely on conjecture. Vagueness in various books does not concrete evidence make. What we need here is the statement of someone who was there! lol

Coake may have been sent forward in time via temporal magic whereas Thraxus lived it out.

Tor wrote:

Jay05 wrote:Good authority would be?

It is established that Coake was a Ranger prior to founding the Cyber-Knights, which if the equivalent to a Wilderness Scout.

This is classed under the "Adventurers" category.

Everyone knows that this is what Locke Cole was. That sounds a lot like Coake doesn't it?

What did Locke call himself? A Treasure Hunter. What did Coake admit to doing? Hunting treasure with his party.

But everyone knows that Locke was really a dirty thief, and so is Coake.

In fact, they're probably the same guy. Right down to using a Genji to get 2 steal attempts per round.

Coake obviously developed his anti-technology abilities like acrobatics and clouding sensors so that he could scale walls, sneak past cameras, and become an effective thief in the modern era.

I KNEW IT!

Definitive answer to end this debate. Cut/pasted from a PM response from Kevin

Hi Jason/Jay05,

Nope, you are correct. Neither Thraxus or Inglix the Mad were Defilers or any part of the Defiler campaign. They are Phase World originals that came long after the Defilers. Sorry it took so long to send you a response. Game on!

Sincerely,
Kevin Siembieda

And there we have it.

Kewlio...so now we can have this [censored] thread put to bed, shot, burned, burried and the ground salted...and go onto other more PRODUCTIVE threads.

Might be asking for a little much there...

Alrik Vas wrote:Might be asking for a little much there...

One can dream...