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I've only run a couple BTS games and have played in like 3 or so. But, never once was the game that scary. Scratching my head, I have to say maybe the reason why is the player characters are pretty powerful compared to those from say Call of Cthulhu.

I might be wrong due to my lack of experience, but the more heroic power level of a typical BTS character makes me wonder.

Anyway, share with me some of your ideas for creating a scarier BTS game.

Not that I'm trying to toot my own horn or anything, but i've got a lot of advice in my House of BTS site concerning bringing out the horror.
You can find it here.

P.S. It takes practice to get it right, so keep playing and practicing, and you'll get them unnerved and freaking out in no time.

Bravo!! Brilliant article via link. Yeah that helps alot.

My gaming group has changed a bit recently from it's normal trio of stolid 40 somethings...my buddy invited a 16 year old kid in. This kid is very much into running a Terminator type Joe Badass type character.

Well being not very original, he rolled up Blade's tougher brother for the BTS game I ran and foiled any attempt I made of adding creepy atmosphere by flexing, kicking in doors and just being uber badass.

I have a dose of body horror to throw at him next time...imagine puking up a demon who then tries to jump right back in.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around having a "badass" character in a victims game like BTS.

--flatline

flatline wrote:I'm trying to wrap my mind around having a "badass" character in a victims game like BTS.

--flatline

BTS is no more a Victim game than PF, HU, NB, or Rifts.
Its all in how you approach it.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

flatline wrote:I'm trying to wrap my mind around having a "badass" character in a victims game like BTS.

--flatline

BTS is no more a Victim game than PF, HU, NB, or Rifts.
Its all in how you approach it.

Really? A small group of people trying to save the world from supernatural incursion that nobody else believes in until it's too late? Am I totally mis-remembering the BST setting?

Admittedly, it has been 15+ years since I had access to that book...

Maybe we never played it as intended...

Oh, and in my opinion, Nightbane is totally a victim game. I do agree that PF, HU, and Rifts are not.

--flatline

Things to remember. The -end- result of combat will probably be the characters in jail. Shooting up bad things that leave no physical evidence, cult members, etc. is beyond difficult to explain away. Police are not your friends. Neighbors will call at the first shot and when the police arrive you've got damaged things, and are holding the weapons (guns/knives/etc) that can easily be matched by a competant firearms/toolmark examiner. If you are the police, how are you going to explain to your boss the vests/armor you keep shredding week after week? Characters need to think of the consequences to their actions. This in of itself should make it more scary (only shoot if you -know- it is going to hit the monster, so you can collect the bullet afterwards).

You're the GM, make BTS -your- world. What is and isn't only you know. Change monsters, change weaknesses. The players and characters should not hear 'vampire' and know what to do. If you're playing off an urban legend or cryptid, -you- decide if it is a supernatural humanoid, a real animal (such as a bear), or a guy in a bigfoot suit. You decide if SLI or EVP is real or not, everything you read in books or on the internet, you have that power to make it real or fraud. Unknown is scary.

Leave notes 'accidently'. When a character is barely missed, tell him a thin slice goes down his arm and startes bleeding. When the player asks 'damage', tell him none. Scribble a note and when you use the bathroom, 'forget' to hide it. When the players read 'Joe-lycanthropy' because the WILL read notes out in the open. They'll be sitting on pins and needles for the entire session or sessions waiting for full moons when joe turns. Of course nothing ever happens, and the longer it goes the longer they wonder.

In horror games you cannot just say, 'your character is afraid' and expect something. you have to show them and 'show' doesn't mean blood and goore- internet and movies have desenitized us to that. You got to describe sounds, smells, tastes. And never ever state something as fact. Everything is 'you think this', or 'the night seems to go uneventfully'. a player's mind can think of greater horrors than can be explained. So don't explain it. Give them a taste and let them think of the source.

One of my first horror genre adventures I GMed was a fantasy (but along a 'ravenloft' taste). There was a creature that paralysed people with fear. When a character failed the fear check, instead of just stating it, I told the player something like, "Remember the Nightmare of your childhood. The one that made you too afraid to move. You wanted to call your mom, but couldn't. That is how Esmeralda feels now." Tears came to the player's eyes and after the game she told me she peed her panties a little. But she kept coming back to my game and loved it.

MurderCityDisciple wrote:My gaming group has changed a bit recently from it's normal trio of stolid 40 somethings...my buddy invited a 16 year old kid in. This kid is very much into running a Terminator type Joe Badass type character.

Well being not very original, he rolled up Blade's tougher brother for the BTS game I ran and foiled any attempt I made of adding creepy atmosphere by flexing, kicking in doors and just being uber badass.

At that age, its hard to get what true "horror" can really be. What he needs are regular doses of reality to how dangerous his world is.

Examples:
Flexing: so what? Any creature he comes up again is potentially stronger than he is, can take punishment a lot better, and those with supernatural endurance never stop coming at him, and never suffer pain penalties.

Kicking in Doors: Next time he does this, something should pounce at him from the other side of the door, say a werewolf for example. Give him a perception roll (should be high as things like all the dust he kicked up, poor lighting, etc. should interfere), and if he fails, he CANT dodge at he didn't see it coming. If its a success, he still needs to roll to save vs. a Horror Factor (which could be increased as its coming right him by surprise!), and if he saves that, he'll have to roll initiative to attempt to dodge it, and as the creature is attacking right after he kicked in the door, the creature should have a bonus to initiative (at least +3 in my book). A successful pounce/maul/body block by a creature with supernatural P.S. Will not only land him on the pavement, but the creatures has already done damage (which may require a save vs. pain penalty), is currently straddling him, and is now able to tear into him. A prone character loses his combat bonuses, and if he's alone, or his friends aren't there to help him or aren't strong enough or have silver or psionics to affect it quickly, the supposed bad ass is suddenly in very real danger, and may be mauled to death in a matter of a few actions (letting the group know that within a 15 second time span that the bad ass was mauled to death should be a harrowing realization, and the new character created by said 16 year old will probably be more cautious. Sometimes... respect is a hands on kind of lesson.

Being an uber Bad Ass: This can only happen because your letting him be one. The very nature of a horror game is that by accepting to play in one, the players are asking the GM to put him into horrible situations. Regardless what kind of P.C.C. he is (and he sounds like a Ghost Hunter to me), he while he may feel like a bad ass to the other characters, he should NEVER feel like he has the advantage against the supernatural. Having all the toys, psionics, gear, guns, etc is not about getting any sort of advantage against the supernatural, its about giving the supernatural less of an advantage over them. The supernatural, the way the world works against the characters, the fact that the players always end up meeting the supernatural on their turf, etc... the odds are ALWAYS going to be against them... and that should be a sobering and terrible thought in and of itself.

Other wake up calls for the bad ass can include:
-A Devil Ghost contacting him should appeal to his bad ass senses and would easily lead him into a trap of some sort.
-Picking up weapon to use at some point should have a Syphon entity appeal to making him even tougher.
-A tectonic entity composed of rock/concrete/bricks/ and such is one of the most dangerous foes in the game, and learn him quick if he tries to take it head on.
-Possessing creatures should be especially scary. When possessed I make to player roll out the actions I deem against his team mates. The bad ass should come to realize that the more dangerous he is the supernatural, the more dangerous he is to his group. Imagine the horror if he kills one of his group... he's a murderer now, even if it wasn't by his own doing. The police would only care that his weaponry and such match that of the weapons used to kill him.
-Use Impish creatures like Gremlins or the Hafoot in group attacks on him. This is maddening to bad asses as while he's dealing with one, the other dozen or more are attacking him from the rear with bobby traps (nail bombs are favorites of mine to use), or using guerrilla tactics (I had a player nearly killed by gremlins ambushing at random times with teeth, claws, knives, and power drills on his calves, until their S.D.C. ran out, ruining his ability to run away, much less limp away, and needing to deal with blood loss while STILL having to deal with all the gremlins).
-Being mauled by Hell Hounds is one of my favorites ways to terrify players. A pack of hounds will EASILY beat a character, now matter how tough he is. Same is said for things like the Dyybuk, Brawling Joe's, the Kroguar, a mass of zombies or mummies, etc.

I hope I've given you some ideas as to how to dismantle bad ass attitudes, piece by bloody piece.

I personally prefer throwing a bit of Lovecraftian flare into my horror games so I tend to make my players save vs. insanity after something traumatic such as seeing someone die or being faced by a great menace that would scare the bejeezus out of any normal person. Just because he is a tank of a character doesn't make him immune to insanity.

Mrloucifer suggestions are also good. Remember as well that you can modify the stats of the monsters in the book and make them more of a challenge. Horror isn't about smashing skulls it's about confronting the terrifying and surviving to tell the story. Hence why I tend to more roleplaying rather than combat with my horror games. When combat comes however, I make sure the characters know the odds are against them.

auyl wrote:I personally prefer throwing a bit of Lovecraftian flare into my horror games so I tend to make my players save vs. insanity after something traumatic such as seeing someone die or being faced by a great menace that would scare the bejeezus out of any normal person. Just because he is a tank of a character doesn't make him immune to insanity.

I agree whole entirely and love playing Lovecraft mind games as well. But EVERYONE, not matter how tough, has an uphill battle against mind games. My examples above are strictly of the mind set of breaking down the bad ass... fighting fire with fire as it were.

mrloucifer wrote:Not that I'm trying to toot my own horn or anything, but i've got a lot of advice in my House of BTS site concerning bringing out the horror.
You can find it here.

P.S. It takes practice to get it right, so keep playing and practicing, and you'll get them unnerved and freaking out in no time.

Great article!

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

flatline wrote:I'm trying to wrap my mind around having a "badass" character in a victims game like BTS.

--flatline

BTS is no more a Victim game than PF, HU, NB, or Rifts.
Its all in how you approach it.

Really? A small group of people trying to save the world from supernatural incursion that nobody else believes in until it's too late? Am I totally mis-remembering the BST setting?

Admittedly, it has been 15+ years since I had access to that book...

Maybe we never played it as intended...

Oh, and in my opinion, Nightbane is totally a victim game. I do agree that PF, HU, and Rifts are not.
--flatline

OCCs such as Archanist, Parapsychologist, Nega-psychic, Psi-Mechanic, etc...
where they all have powers above and beyond the ken of normal men and women. Not victims in my book.
Now yes there are victim rules (note the victims do not get any special powers) but that does not mean the game is a strict victim game.

As to NB being victim? you are a Bane (non-human with a monster form) hardly victim material there...

Can all the games I mentioned be run as victim style games? yes but they sure dont read like that was the initial design intention. I am not saying victim games are not fun or the wrong way to play just that the game books do not present themselves as such per say.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

flatline wrote:I'm trying to wrap my mind around having a "badass" character in a victims game like BTS.

--flatline

BTS is no more a Victim game than PF, HU, NB, or Rifts.
Its all in how you approach it.

Really? A small group of people trying to save the world from supernatural incursion that nobody else believes in until it's too late? Am I totally mis-remembering the BST setting?

Admittedly, it has been 15+ years since I had access to that book...

Maybe we never played it as intended...

Oh, and in my opinion, Nightbane is totally a victim game. I do agree that PF, HU, and Rifts are not.
--flatline

OCCs such as Archanist, Parapsychologist, Nega-psychic, Psi-Mechanic, etc...
where they all have powers above and beyond the ken of normal men and women. Not victims in my book.
Now yes there are victim rules (note the victims do not get any special powers) but that does not mean the game is a strict victim game.

As to NB being victim? you are a Bane (non-human with a monster form) hardly victim material there...

Can all the games I mentioned be run as victim style games? yes but they sure dont read like that was the initial design intention. I am not saying victim games are not fun or the wrong way to play just that the game books do not present themselves as such per say.

True, BTS isn't a victim game so much as say Call of Cthulhu, but I like seeing the game played as BTS being an uphill battle against the supernatural. All games no matter what setting can be a victim game or else more a heroic role. It's all how the GM wants to present his encounters and how he intends for the characters to interact with the monsters and NPC's they encounter.

Damian Magecraft wrote:As to NB being victim? you are a Bane (non-human with a monster form) hardly victim material there...

You are hunted. You can't disguise your nature from the hunters (I've only read NB, so this may have changed in later books). The hunters have resources beyond anything you could hope to exhaust. There is no safe haven for you to run to. Your most significant advantage is that your hunters waste energy and resources scheming against each other which gives you some opportunity to leverage your hunters against themselves but even distracted by their politics, getting yourself noticed is still a death sentence. Maybe not the classic victim setup, but still a victim setup.

At least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:As to NB being victim? you are a Bane (non-human with a monster form) hardly victim material there...

You are hunted. You can't disguise your nature from the hunters (I've only read NB, so this may have changed in later books). The hunters have resources beyond anything you could hope to exhaust. There is no safe haven for you to run to. Your most significant advantage is that your hunters waste energy and resources scheming against each other which gives you some opportunity to leverage your hunters against themselves but even distracted by their politics, getting yourself noticed is still a death sentence. Maybe not the classic victim setup, but still a victim setup.

At least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.

--flatline

Thats just it though from what I gathered the Nightlords are not actively seeking the banes but will try to have them killed on reflex if they are made aware of their presence. No more a victim game than Rifts, HU or PF; IMO.

I have also seen NB played as a more WoD (you are the monster) style as well.

Like I said in my initial post its all in how you approach it.

mrloucifer wrote:

auyl wrote:I personally prefer throwing a bit of Lovecraftian flare into my horror games so I tend to make my players save vs. insanity after something traumatic such as seeing someone die or being faced by a great menace that would scare the bejeezus out of any normal person. Just because he is a tank of a character doesn't make him immune to insanity.

I agree whole entirely and love playing Lovecraft mind games as well. But EVERYONE, not matter how tough, has an uphill battle against mind games. My examples above are strictly of the mind set of breaking down the bad ass... fighting fire with fire as it were.

Couldn't agree more. I was just trying to give other options that the character would be unprepared for. Heck do both, mind games while fighting fire with fire, make the player really scramble.

auyl wrote: Heck do both, mind games while fighting fire with fire, make the player really scramble.

ATTA BOY AUYL!

Play this in the background during Christmas time.

I think a lot of my problem was I designed basically a Scooby-Doo-ish type investigative game, designed for non-badassish, Scooby-Doo-ish characters. When Terminator Blade Conan Cobra showed up my designed scenario couldn't function as designed. I should've adjusted, but the scenario was a play-test for a critter I came up with and I wanted to see how it would fare. I did boost it a few levels, but they didn't have a chance against the Demon Sword and high combat abilities of Mr. Terminator Blade Conan Cobra. So lesson learned....Don Knotts in a rubber mask vs. Blade...not gonna end well.

MurderCityDisciple wrote:The scenario was a play-test for a critter I came up with and I wanted to see how it would fare.

Once its perfected, I would love to see it lurking through the hallways of the House of BTS... just saying.

MurderCityDisciple wrote:So lesson learned....Don Knotts in a rubber mask vs. Blade...not gonna end well.

Not entirely... The Ghost Hunter Player Character in my game has learned that a handful of gremlins could kill him, especially if fighting them on his own. I imagine a handful of these new creatures of yours could potential overpower this guy.

mrloucifer wrote:

MurderCityDisciple wrote:So lesson learned....Don Knotts in a rubber mask vs. Blade...not gonna end well.

Not entirely... The Ghost Hunter Player Character in my game has learned that a handful of gremlins could kill him, especially if fighting them on his own. I imagine a handful of these new creatures of yours could potential overpower this guy.

I modified my creature drastically and if I may say the new version brutally un-badassifies even the baddest baddasses. It came to me while watching Army of Darkness. It will take a few weeks til my schedule clears up to run it, but I can't wait.

MurderCityDisciple wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:

MurderCityDisciple wrote:So lesson learned....Don Knotts in a rubber mask vs. Blade...not gonna end well.

Not entirely... The Ghost Hunter Player Character in my game has learned that a handful of gremlins could kill him, especially if fighting them on his own. I imagine a handful of these new creatures of yours could potential overpower this guy.

I modified my creature drastically and if I may say the new version brutally un-badassifies even the baddest baddasses. It came to me while watching Army of Darkness. It will take a few weeks til my schedule clears up to run it, but I can't wait.

After you play test it a bit, you should definitely put it in the halls of House of BTS. The evil mastermind that minds those halls won't mind it there one bit.

And I thought I gave lousy advice. This thread has great ideas if your goal is for him to give up on tabletop games. If not, I suggest using carrots instead of the stick.

If you want to keep him, one thing I would do is run a non-combat adventure that lets him use his other skills and powers to shine. (He is a Palladium character. Of course he has other skills.) Simply neutralizing his strengths only teaches him that the GM hates him.

Another idea is troupe play. Either create several pregens or work with him to create a character that fits the mood better. Explain that his regular character is too badass for the next mission, but that he can be swapped in if they need reinforcements.

Depending on the other players, maybe just have a Season-ending battle royal, where they can all cut loose and remind the monsters WHY they hide from humanity.

After he feels welcomed and valued as part of the group, you can start ramping up the evil GM tricks. It's like boiling a frog.

This might not work, of course. Your problem might be him, not just his character. In that case, tell him it isn't working out, but you'll invite him back when you're playing a game that fits him better. Passive-aggressive crap does both of you a disservice.

I think with this kid, it's poor gamer parenting. He plays with his dad which I think might be the root of the problem. Pops I think let's a lot of stuff go...I know for instance that he never creates a character that doesn't have at least a 16 in every stat. We also busted the kid cheating on dice rolls. He's kinda being phased out, so my troubles might be gone.

Sir Neil wrote:Simply neutralizing his strengths only teaches him that the GM hates him.

If I came off this way, I apologize. I NEVER want to neutralize anyone strengths in the game. All I'm seeking in this case is getting the player to think with his head before his heart. It will save him a lot of future heartache as his rash reactions will get lots of his characters killed in a game like BTS. And as you know, it can take 1-2 hours to make a good character, and burning through them will also make him frustrated enough to leave.

P.S. I didn't say it in so many words, but YES! Your mentioning using a lot of non-combat situations is a great way to handle this situation. On the other hand, if the player tries to make a combat situation out of everything, something will have to be done about his attitude twords playing this kind of game.

mrloucifer wrote:All I'm seeking in this case is getting the player to think with his head before his heart.

That's a laudible goal; I'm completely on board. How to achieve that goal is the trick. I see it as an out-of-game problem, so I think using in-game solutions is counter-productive.

It sounds to me like the kid is terrified, MCD. He doesn't want to lose face in front of grown ups, so he creates badasses lest they not be taken seriously; and cheats because he thinks if his character does poorly, it reflects on him as a player.

I get your point, roleplaying is a key element after all it is a ROLEPLAYING game.

HOWEVER

I play with a lot (and I mean A LOT) of min/maxers. All they want to do is bash skulls in. Most of the characters they make have very little ability to use skills in a true roleplaying environment. I'm not saying they are bad roleplayers, they would just rather get into combat then roleplay things out. In this situation, turning them into mincemeat is a viable solution as that is what they expect. I'm not one to kill my players characters, I'd rather see them grow and develop, it's part of the fun and I get enjoyment out of it as a GM as well.

The reason I say this may be from a very narrow lens however since one time (and I've said it on these forums before), I was trying to do some heavy roleplaying and I was stopped by my players and was told they were bored and wanted to fight something. There had been skirmishes, but nothing major, I was trying to roleplay up to a climax where a big fight would happen, but my players wanted action then and there, so alas, I gave it to them.

To say you're going to scare players away by overpowering them isn't always going to scare them away. In fact it very well could make them more wary. If you've had different experiences, then that is different. Like I said however, my group sometimes needs to have their heads knocked around a bit to realize that the GM is in charge here, not their min/maxed characters.

One of the most common fears/scares is the one of powerlessness. I think this holds especially true for min/max.ers as they are so in love with their ueberpower self [pun] that they often have no strategy when their powers do not work. Set them in a situation where they have to think out of the confines of their ueberbox: strip them of their power (kryptonite drink, anything, but really a creature that cannot be hurt by [x: insert ueberpower here], offer them a battle, see them loose, let them get away and then give them a chance to plot to try to win with "normal" means. Roleplaying may be their only ticket to win.

A second one would be to use a manipulative horror, one that manipulates the authorities to go against the party.
I love Darotha. ... Anyway, that would possible pit the party against the aparatus. Again, roleplaying may be the only way to win. Make sure they can make it right again, but let some stick. You may need to be able to turn the knife in the wound some time after the actual peril will have passed.

Cheers
Hendrik

Hendrik wrote:One of the most common fears/scares is the one of powerlessness. I think this holds especially true for min/max.ers as they are so in love with their ueberpower self [pun] that they often have no strategy when their powers do not work. Set them in a situation where they have to think out of the confines of their ueberbox: strip them of their power (kryptonite drink, anything, but really a creature that cannot be hurt by [x: insert ueberpower here], offer them a battle, see them loose, let them get away and then give them a chance to plot to try to win with "normal" means. Roleplaying may be their only ticket to win.

A second one would be to use a manipulative horror, one that manipulates the authorities to go against the party.
I love Darotha. ... Anyway, that would possible pit the party against the aparatus. Again, roleplaying may be the only way to win. Make sure they can make it right again, but let some stick. You may need to be able to turn the knife in the wound some time after the actual peril will have passed.

Cheers
Hendrik

Good points, and I'm not disagreeing with the value of good roleplaying. It is difficult to enforce roleplaying however, in which I mean using skills and any other non-combat related abilities, when the players have built characters that are not designed to contemplate Lore or Occult skills or issues. I have started most of my games these days be flat out stating that I do heavy roleplaying and am not going to be doing as much skull bashing as the players may like. Some appreciate this, others do not. I'm playing in a Pathfinder game right now and all that happens is combat, we move from one combat to the next with little roleplaying in between. It's kind of boring for me, since all our characters are designed to survive in combat rather than have character development, but that is the choice not only of our GM but the other players as well. They want to hit things as hard as they can and come out of it. It can get pretty monotonous at times, but that's the reality of the main group I play in. They have done good roleplaying in the past, but it is not the type of game they prefer to play, the one friend in that group I've been gaming with for close to 15 years, and it's pretty much been the same thing, he's a good roleplayer, but all his characters have been built to min/max. Maybe it's just my group, but that's the reality some groups face and just throwing down a ton of roleplaying for characters that are not built to roleplay effectively can be just as detrimental to the group.

Enforce Horror Factor rolls, religiously.

Don't give them their multipliers to ISP. Ever. That'll scare'em.

How to make it scary? Hrmmm, well when the GM screws with my head that wigs me out pretty well. I was in a situation where while my PC was beating up a goon, the baddies grabbed a hostage. I was told to stop or the hostage would get it. I called their bluff and went back to pummeling my opponent.

I roll to strike. Gm doesn't bother to defend. I roll damage. Gm says you've cracked his skull and he's laying limp and bleeding on the floor. Gm rolls a nat 20 and says, as you turn to face the other goons in the room you're hit upside the head and feel/hear a wet sticky thwap as something about the size of a volleyball bounces off your skull and lands with a plop at your feet. I look down. The goons had DECAPITATED THE HOSTAGE AND BEANED ME IN THE SKULL WITH THE SEVERED HEAD!!

Later that game after defeating the other goons and beating a hasty retreat in a stolen ambulance this happens.

GM says, you hear a rustling and giggling coming from the back of the ambulance. I pull over to investigate. GM says, you can see there is something hidden in your sleeping bag what do you do? I pull the zipper down and throw the top of the sleeping bag back to see what it is. GM says, it's a little girl. It looks to be the same little girl from the hostage situation. I say (in character), You're dead. I saw you die. Little girl says, I'm not dead, i'm right here, Hello. Gm says, she hops off the bed and wraps herself around your leg. I reach down to pry her off my leg. GM says, you get her loose but notice that she doesn't feel right. While you're holding on to her she grabs onto your arms and wraps her legs around them hugging/squeezing you tightly. She's squeezing really tight for being such a little girl, and your arms are starting to go numb from the pressure. You still notice that something about this little girl feels funny. I say, I'm gonna head butt her! I roll to strike. Gm grins, but doesn't defend. I roll damage (full die roll plus PS bonus!). Gm says, you take full damage from the headbutt.

At this point I'm freaking out as a player, not knowing what the heck is going on. My pc, as an extension of me, is losing his flippin' mind. GM says, that ends our game for tonight.

I tell the GM that I'm freaked out as to what's going on. A dead npc is in my ambulance, with a full body hug around my arms. I can't damage it, I can't shake it loose, and it won't stop giggling and saying hello.

In the post game discussion period the GM see's that I'm still rattled by it and decides to fill me in on what's happening. He thinks it's hilarious but graciously offers me a do-over. I take the do-over, and the situation was played out as an extremely vivid nightmare for the PC. My Pc, who's back story is that he's retired special forces, comes out of the ordeal with a phobia of little girls at only 25% chance to Save Vs. Now my guy, a combat hardened veteran, has no problem with bashing in a zombie's head bare handed, or beating goons to a pulp. But let him see a little girl and fail his save roll. Oh the shame.

You don't have to overpower your players with an unstoppable force. Sometimes the immovable object will work too.

Nate! This is a great post amigo! Some awesome ideas and situations to consider here!

Elusiveness.

The characters arrive just to late to stop it from doing what it wants to do. The best they see is an undefined shape fleeing into the shadows.

Once they do manage to figure out what it wants enough to get to it's targets first, have it strike successfully (if it can of course) despite their best efforts. Make sure they find evidence that it could have gone after them too, but it waited for what it really wanted to be an easier hit.

If the characters get into a fight with it, it should only hit them once or twice then disappear the moment they mount any effective resistance. When attacking the creature should be fast and the attacks should occur in a place in which the creature can stay concealed and escape. It won't go aftter the group either, instead targeting an isolated and weak appearing member (ie not the Brick).

Ultimately the final confrontation with the creature should only occur when the characters have done their homework and come up with a solid plan to force the thing to stay and fight. Only then do they get to find out if they can actually beat it.

This doesn't work for all monsters, but it's a good template to follow.

The best game I ran had the players isolated outside of town in a blizzard with no power. I also never gave them a clear view of the monster, just glimpses when it attacked. The imagination is a powerful tool, let the players run wild as they will imagine what makes them scared the most.