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Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:42 pm**

What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

so what is the point? what is the original purpose for the spell? ok so I turn 50 lb of stone into flesh, what then? does it feel? Can I turn a 50lb statue into a living being? is it just flesh in which I can clone or graft for a burn victim? can I eat it? Apparently recovery of someone from petrification is a side point as it states oh yeah btw,...

What is it supposed to do and what have you done with it?

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:22 pm**

KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

so what is the point? what is the original purpose for the spell? ok so I turn 50 lb of stone into flesh, what then? does it feel? Can I turn a 50lb statue into a living being? is it just flesh in which I can clone or graft for a burn victim? can I eat it? Apparently recovery of someone from petrification is a side point as it states oh yeah btw,...

What is it supposed to do and what have you done with it?

well 50lbs of fresh meat means you aint going hungry anytime soon...

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:24 pm**

The spell turns Pretrified, like from a Balisk's gaze, Back into Flesh.
You would of gotten the above from reading the text of the spell.

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:42 pm**

I know that it does that drew kitty, but as an after thought, and not very good at it depending on what level you are. At first level I turn 50 lb of Stone marcus into flesh marcus I can end up with a dead headless marcus. It says "This spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone, via magic petrification, back to normal." Key word I picked up on was also, as in not the main point but a point none the less, as in it does something else. I just don't know what that something else is. Unless it really is just for survival and you can literally eat rocks. It's just not clear to me.

Posted: **Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:13 pm**

KillWatch wrote:I know that it does that drew kitty, but as an after thought, and not very good at it depending on what level you are. At first level I turn 50 lb of Stone marcus into flesh marcus I can end up with a dead headless marcus. It says "This spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone, via magic petrification, back to normal." Key word I picked up on was also, as in not the main point but a point none the less, as in it does something else. I just don't know what that something else is. Unless it really is just for survival and you can literally eat rocks. It's just not clear to me.

Its a handy spell. It also lets you craft a new "flesh" body for yourself if used in conjunction with the Golem Spell and the spell that transfers your intelligence into a new body. Flesh means a sense of touch and actually a closer to natural experience. That is priceless.

Also, it is creepy as hell. Remember, a Practitioner of magic can shape the visuals and perimeter of their spells... so you know... wall of taut faces, the entire corridor is now covered in a thin layer of tanned skin... etc, etc, etc. You can do a lot with the spell, assuming you are twisted (or creative) enough.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:28 am**

as pointed out it is an unfinished spell, to be used in conjunction with other spells to fulfill some sort of purpose. It seems odd to me that a mage of any sort would craft such an ambiguous spell and consider it a finished product. If it is to relieve petrification then why not use the designation of one being instead of 50 lb per level. If it is to create a new body for the self, why not wrap all of those effects into a single spell?

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:52 am**

Turn the floor of a hallway to flesh. Might keep someone from walking on it, just because they might think the hall was alive and some monster. Or just the creepy feel factor might keep them from walking on it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:58 am**

My PFRPG says 100lbs btw! Must be easier in Fantasy.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 am**

Fresh meat is a wonderful item to barter with when dealing with wilderness communities.

Water to Wine has similar value.

--flatline

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:12 pm**

flatline wrote:Fresh meat is a wonderful item to barter with when dealing with wilderness communities.

Water to Wine has similar value.

--flatline

Smart.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:52 pm**

Zor: the floor has to be stone and usually a single block can be 50 lb. Even if 100 lb per level 2 blocks per level? Not going to be half the floor.
Dark Elf: I am looking at my 2nd ed p 206 and it says 50lb per level (22.6 kg). 1998 printing
Flatline: But it doesn't say meat, it says flesh. It COULD just be 50 lb of skin. And what are you going to say when the trader asks you what kind of meat it is? What color is the flesh? Does it resemble the stone it is made from? Water to wine is obvious. I know what to do with wine. I don't know what to do with 50lb of ambiguous "flesh". Is it just skin? is it just meat?

I guess you can put any spin on it you want but the spell description as to what its intended primary use would be. It is like a footnote spell from some forgotten mage that says "oh hey I have no idea what I would use this for but I can turn relatively small amount of stone into flesh, anyway back to Time Capsule,..."

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:01 pm**

KillWatch wrote:But it doesn't say meat, it says flesh. It COULD just be 50 lb of skin. And what are you going to say when the trader asks you what kind of meat it is? What color is the flesh? Does it resemble the stone it is made from? Water to wine is obvious. I know what to do with wine. I don't know what to do with 50lb of ambiguous "flesh". Is it just skin? is it just meat?

Hm. You may know what to do with wine, but the key question is the same: What TYPE?
If it's caster's choice, then you could create white wine, or red wine, or blush. Maybe a cabernet, or zinfandel, or even sangria.
If it's caster's choice, then you could create 50 lbs of skin, which could be tanned. Or 50 lbs of meat, which could be eaten. Or 50 lbs of organs, which could be eaten... or, if you can choose the species of flesh, could be used as spell components.
Of course, if you choose the species, that opens up a lot of doors, because you could run a fine eatery with this one spell stocking the smokehouse with everything from Aardvark to Zebra.
Arguably, you could even pick 50 lbs of MDC flesh, by picking a MDC species as the kind of flesh.
On the other hand, if the flesh is just "rock flesh," that leaves a LOT of questions about what exactly that IS.

Bones would also be a logical option for a type of "flesh," even though the two are often referred to as separate. But since we can assume that returning petrified people to flesh does NOT leave their meat and skin on a petrified skeleton, the spell must be capable of making bone.

For the same reason, we can guess that the spell can create living flesh and bone; otherwise, it would do very little good to cast this spell on somebody who had been petrified.
Which would indicate, perhaps, that if you cast this spell on a statue of a human being, then you would create a living human being.
Or maybe not, depending on how detailed the organs and tissues of petrified people are. As in, if you break open the torso of a petrified human, do you find a heart of stone? Or just a solid stone torso?
(Also, a tangent question arises, of "what kind of stone?")

I guess you can put any spin on it you want but the spell description as to what its intended primary use would be. It is like a footnote spell from some forgotten mage that says "oh hey I have no idea what I would use this for but I can turn relatively small amount of stone into flesh, anyway back to Time Capsule,..."

Personally, I think that the sole purpose of the spell is to de-petrify people, and that the wording of the description was just badly written.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:09 pm**

KillWatch wrote:I know that it does that drew kitty, but as an after thought, and not very good at it depending on what level you are. At first level I turn 50 lb. of Stone marcus into flesh marcus I can end up with a dead headless marcus. It says "This spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone, via magic petrification, back to normal." Key word I picked up on was also, as in not the main point but a point none the less, as in it does something else. I just don't know what that something else is. Unless it really is just for survival and you can literally eat rocks. It's just not clear to me.

Yes, the spell text "as is" would let you "eat rocks'. It also does not say what type of flesh it will turn the rocks into.
Mage "Yep, I'm having __________ tonight."
Other in party"then why are the rest of us having boiled cabbage?"
Mage "cause you over-cook the cabbage every time."

*insert different animal part food item every night into blank* goose liver, beef liver, beef ribs, pork ribs, etc....

-------------------
opinion:
Might be a good medical spell for replacing "missing bits" of a person's anatomy. With this I would rule that they need a sample from the person so the new flesh will be compatible.
"what...Mrs. Bobbit did it again.... Odo spell up another one for Mr Bobbit."

-----------------

However, the spell can not make a living "person" or "animal" out of a statue, unless that "statue was a magically 'petrified' person or animal.

Posted: **Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:51 pm**

RuneKatana wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:Bones would also be a logical option for a type of "flesh," even though the two are often referred to as separate. But since we can assume that returning petrified people to flesh does NOT leave their meat and skin on a petrified skeleton, the spell must be capable of making bone.

And blood, too hmm? The enterprising mage could make a killing as the supply guy for dragon juicers. And... dragon steaks, woohoo!

Plus, dragon blood and bone are worth money.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:27 am**

KillWatch wrote:Zor: the floor has to be stone and usually a single block can be 50 lb. Even if 100 lb per level 2 blocks per level? Not going to be half the floor. "

Do not have to go block by block, And in a cave there are no blocks. If you do a thin .5 to 1cm thin layer on the top, that still gives a creep factor.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:39 am**

KillWatch wrote:Dark Elf: I am looking at my 2nd ed p 206 and it says 50lb per level (22.6 kg). 1998 printing

Greetings and Salutations. I saw this before I went to work, but had no time to make a reply. These comments (Dark Elf's comment as well) I find interesting, and may help shed some light on the matter.

Dark Elf mentioned 100 pounds (45 kg) per level, and this is accurate. KillWatch mentions 50 pounds (22.6 kg) per level, which is also accurate. Both are also accurate in Palladium Fantasy, Second Edition, Third Printing, October 1998. How can these both be accurate then?

Stone to Flesh is both an Invocation spell (page 206), as well as an Earth Elemental spell (page 232). In addition to the weight difference, the wording of the elemental spell is a bit different as well and worth noting.

This spell magically transforms stone to flesh and can restore people who have been turned to stone via petrification.

Now, this more or less says the same thing as the invocation, but it's worded ever so slightly different. For one, it cuts out that "also" that's causing such confusion. Now, it does still include an "and" in there. The "and" could replace the also, thereby making this a list (it does X and Y), or it could continue the thought (it does X, and as a result, reverses petrification).

Using the first meaning, we end up with the same question/predictament that started this thread. However, if we use the second meaning, we have a clearer understanding of the spell, with reversing petrification being the purpose of this spell (and turning stone to flesh is just the necessary component to reach that objective). This would also help to explain the lack of explanation in which type of flesh and other such methods (because none were really intended).

However, this brings us back to the Invocation, and this wording hasn't changed. Though by what we know, we can also figure that some invocations are converted Elemental spells. These are rare, but they have happened and this seems to be one such case. These spells do tend to be weaker than the original Elemental spells too (which would explain the difference in weight as well).

Random Story: So some mad wizard found a way to covert the spell and use it for some twisted purpose other than the original intend. He writes it down, and it is now an invocation. He never explained why someone would want to use this for a reason other than reversing petrification, because to him this is obvious. I mean ... just look at it! Can't you see the applications? No ... well, I can't either, but when you have an idea you often don't explain it in full because you just naturally assume other people will know what you meant. Now, thousands of years later, wizards continue to study the spell and wonder why someone would have it listed as "also."

Errr ... I mean ... let's look at PF1st Edition. In first edition, we have the spell again. The spell has the same wording as the Elemental Spell (2nd Edition), but the weight limitation of the Invocation (2nd Edition). Invocation and Elemental spells (1st Edition) are the same, with the Invocation spell simply referring you to the Elemental spell (no description on its own).

What does this mean? It means that the Invocation description (with the "also") was added later. Could this be clarification?! Well, in my personal opinion, it's more likely they were copying the spell over, and someone changed the wording up slightly not thinking about the potential implications and resulting in this confusion.

These are just the facts, and you can take them as you please. Though as I was flipping through the books I did come up with an odd question for this spell. Two warlocks are competing. Warlock A decides he's going to show his awesomeness by casting Travel Through Stone. Look at how cool that is! Warlock B watches, yawning as he tries to fight off the boredom. That is until he gets a devlish look on his face and snickers. He then casts Stone to Flesh upon the stone that the other warlock is in. What happens?

Does the Travel Through Stone spell continue to act upon the flesh? Does the current active spell (Travel Through Stone) cancel out the second spell (Turn Stone to Flesh) because the same stone cannot have more than one magic cast upon it at the same time? Does the stone become flesh, and the other poor warlock trapped within it? Does the Stone to Flesh cancel out the other magic and kick the warlock out by default? Just a random thought that came to mind and thought I'd sure.

Anyways, I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:26 pm**

Prysus wrote:
KillWatch wrote:Dark Elf: I am looking at my 2nd ed p 206 and it says 50lb per level (22.6 kg). 1998 printing

Greetings and Salutations. I saw this before I went to work, but had no time to make a reply. These comments (Dark Elf's comment as well) I find interesting, and may help shed some light on the matter.

Dark Elf mentioned 100 pounds (45 kg) per level, and this is accurate. KillWatch mentions 50 pounds (22.6 kg) per level, which is also accurate. Both are also accurate in Palladium Fantasy, Second Edition, Third Printing, October 1998. How can these both be accurate then?

Stone to Flesh is both an Invocation spell (page 206), as well as an Earth Elemental spell (page 232). In addition to the weight difference, the wording of the elemental spell is a bit different as well and worth noting.

Ive first edition April 1996 p232 is indeed the elemental magic and p206 says 50lbs for the spell magic.

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:31 pm**

Prysus wrote:These are just the facts, and you can take them as you please. Though as I was flipping through the books I did come up with an odd question for this spell. Two warlocks are competing. Warlock A decides he's going to show his awesomeness by casting Travel Through Stone. Look at how cool that is! Warlock B watches, yawning as he tries to fight off the boredom. That is until he gets a devlish look on his face and snickers. He then casts Stone to Flesh upon the stone that the other warlock is in. What happens?

I laugh.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:43 pm**

Prysus wrote:What happens?

According to the rules and my understanding of magic, the traveling Warlock... would die! Assuming of course he had not moved far enough through the stone to be out of the area of effect. I would allow them a chance to "dodge" (same rules for avoiding AoE attacks like missiles, etc) it if they hadn't but otherwise, deadly use of magic. Good thinking!

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:20 pm**

A basilisk Stone master (in Atlantis 2) might have a use for this spell as well.

A step further, setup a plastic surgery clinic, a high level mage and a stone master. Petrify the target somehow. Stone master does his face lift adds a few extra PB points then cast stone to flesh

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:04 pm**

Chronicle wrote:A basilisk Stone master (in Atlantis 2) might have a use for this spell as well.

A step further, setup a plastic surgery clinic, a high level mage and a stone master. Petrify the target somehow. Stone master does his face lift adds a few extra PB points then cast stone to flesh

Now we're getting some good ideas.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:09 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Prysus wrote:What happens?

According to the rules and my understanding of magic, the traveling Warlock... would die! Assuming of course he had not moved far enough through the stone to be out of the area of effect. I would allow them a chance to "dodge" (same rules for avoiding AoE attacks like missiles, etc) it if they hadn't but otherwise, deadly use of magic. Good thinking!

What about casting Petrify on the area turned to flesh? Possible?

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:30 am**

It is useful to cheat a stone labyrinth cast stone to flesh cut through wall. Makes a minotaur

.

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:51 am**

This may be redundant and yet I think interesting.

While I guess the limitation of magical implemtation is only truly limited by the imagination...Could a stone to flesh spell be used to restore to life a person altered in dramatic ways. Examples I have in mind are things like, extra arms, breaking off the original legs and then transplanting them onto a different ones, giving someone an completely alien look, to even completely altering the form by giving it extra mass by adding on stone and then say giving the new form a twisted form akin to a alien intelligence?

What is the true intent of the spell and where should a limit, mechanically, be drawn?

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:14 pm**

we kind already had this discussion. I don't remember the conclusion but i think that's because the answer for me was lacking. But it was one of my topics I believe

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:55 pm**

KillWatch wrote:we kind already had this discussion. I don't remember the conclusion but i think that's because the answer for me was lacking. But it was one of my topics I believe

Maybe this one.

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:33 pm**

wow duh

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:00 pm**

KillWatch wrote:wow duh

I'm pretty sure it's happened to me before, too.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:31 am**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:17 pm**

Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

Never had cerveaux before I take it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:51 pm**

Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

I had a similar thought, but more along the lines of "beef" or "human?"

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:41 am**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

It says "flesh", not organs, so I've always ruled that it was a mass of tissue and muscle.

Muscles are flesh, that's why when you refer to a 'flesh and blood human' you're talking about all the parts because the organs are flesh. The only question is what kind of flesh does the spell turn a rock into, since it doesn't seem to give you a choice (otherwise 'Stone to Prime Beef Steak' would be a must have spell for any game) so what is the default flesh it makes a rock into? Is this flesh you would want to eat or even could eat? Given it transforms petrified people back into normal flesh and blood one would have to think it's quite squickily some kind of human(oid) flesh but again it's way too vague on that point.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:08 pm**

Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
KillWatch wrote:What is the point. It says that the caster can change 50 lb of stone per level into flesh. and that this spell will also restore people who have been turned to stone.

Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

It says "flesh", not organs, so I've always ruled that it was a mass of tissue and muscle.

Muscles are flesh, that's why when you refer to a 'flesh and blood human' you're talking about all the parts because the organs are flesh. The only question is what kind of flesh does the spell turn a rock into, since it doesn't seem to give you a choice (otherwise 'Stone to Prime Beef Steak' would be a must have spell for any game) so what is the default flesh it makes a rock into? Is this flesh you would want to eat or even could eat? Given it transforms petrified people back into normal flesh and blood one would have to think it's quite squickily some kind of human(oid) flesh but again it's way too vague on that point.

It can also be used to create flesh golem/zombie like animals when combined w/ other spells...
So that would imply that the type of flesh is casters choice.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:34 pm**

Damian Magecraft wrote:It can also be used to create flesh golem/zombie like animals when combined w/ other spells...
So that would imply that the type of flesh is casters choice.

Greetings and Salutations. Or it could mean that the magic gives the appropriate flesh to the design. So looks like a human: Human flesh. Looks like a wolf: Wolf flesh. Looks like a boulder: Big blob of flesh that looks like something an owl would spit out (though admittedly, owl's spit out bone and fur). Just sayin'. Anyways, thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:04 pm**

Prysus wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:It can also be used to create flesh golem/zombie like animals when combined w/ other spells...
So that would imply that the type of flesh is casters choice.

Greetings and Salutations. Or it could mean that the magic gives the appropriate flesh to the design. So looks like a human: Human flesh. Looks like a wolf: Wolf flesh. Looks like a boulder: Big blob of flesh that looks like something an owl would spit out (though admittedly, owl's spit out bone and fur). Just sayin'. Anyways, thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

so as long as i carve the stone to resemble a side of beef first then I am golden...
I just knew that sculpting skill would come in handy...

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:35 pm**

Damian Magecraft wrote:so as long as i carve the stone to resemble a side of beef first then I am golden...
I just knew that sculpting skill would come in handy...

Exactly.

Greetings and Salutations. And yes, as a G.M. I really would be more inclined to let that work (and reward the extra use of skills and/or combination of abilities). I like synergy. Okay, that's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys again!

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:12 pm**

We also need to consider since it's designed for recovery on petrified persons and creatures, the spell SHOULD be doing something about bones, tendons, organs, etc...

The question is, will it assume where that stuff goes, or is it based upon a previous form prior to being petrified?

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:49 am**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

It says "flesh", not organs, so I've always ruled that it was a mass of tissue and muscle.

Muscles are flesh, that's why when you refer to a 'flesh and blood human' you're talking about all the parts because the organs are flesh. The only question is what kind of flesh does the spell turn a rock into, since it doesn't seem to give you a choice (otherwise 'Stone to Prime Beef Steak' would be a must have spell for any game) so what is the default flesh it makes a rock into? Is this flesh you would want to eat or even could eat? Given it transforms petrified people back into normal flesh and blood one would have to think it's quite squickily some kind of human(oid) flesh but again it's way too vague on that point.

DM, I don't approach GMing the way you do. Let's just leave it at that.

So when someone asks you 'but what kind of flesh is it' you just go 'uh it's just flesh dude' when there are all different types of flesh? That's like saying 'it's just a rock' when someone asks what kind of rock he just picked up, it answers nothing of what one needs to know. Do you now have a mass of skin, brain matter, muscle, heart tissue, lung tissue, tendon, or something else when you cast Stone to Flesh on some random rock? Does it matter what the rock was originally for what flesh you get or is it something the spell-caster selects prior to casting the spell? When a player asks 'so if I cast Stone to Flesh on that boulder what kind of flesh do I get?' you need more of an answer than just 'it's just flesh dude' because flesh isn't a tightly defined thing like saying 'the rock is quartz'. Flesh=broad category of things, you can't just leave it at 'it turned into flesh' when someone inevitably wants to know what they actually get.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:58 am**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:Run out of food in the middle of nowhere?

Cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock.

Cook, season to taste, and chow down.

(Seriously, we've done this for years).

You know, that really begs the question: just what kind of flesh are you getting? I mean all flesh is not the same and it's not like the spell says 'converts x amount of stone into prime beef steak' just 'converts x amount of stone into flesh', a very vague term. I doubt turning it into x amount of brain matter would be all that appealing or nourishing after all.

It says "flesh", not organs, so I've always ruled that it was a mass of tissue and muscle.

Muscles are flesh, that's why when you refer to a 'flesh and blood human' you're talking about all the parts because the organs are flesh. The only question is what kind of flesh does the spell turn a rock into, since it doesn't seem to give you a choice (otherwise 'Stone to Prime Beef Steak' would be a must have spell for any game) so what is the default flesh it makes a rock into? Is this flesh you would want to eat or even could eat? Given it transforms petrified people back into normal flesh and blood one would have to think it's quite squickily some kind of human(oid) flesh but again it's way too vague on that point.

DM, I don't approach GMing the way you do. Let's just leave it at that.

Methinks you have us confused...
DM is not short for Nightmask.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:59 pm**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:So when someone asks you 'but what kind of flesh is it' you just go 'uh it's just flesh dude' when there are all different types of flesh? That's like saying 'it's just a rock' when someone asks what kind of rock he just picked up, it answers nothing of what one needs to know. Do you now have a mass of skin, brain matter, muscle, heart tissue, lung tissue, tendon, or something else when you cast Stone to Flesh on some random rock? Does it matter what the rock was originally for what flesh you get or is it something the spell-caster selects prior to casting the spell? When a player asks 'so if I cast Stone to Flesh on that boulder what kind of flesh do I get?' you need more of an answer than just 'it's just flesh dude' because flesh isn't a tightly defined thing like saying 'the rock is quartz'. Flesh=broad category of things, you can't just leave it at 'it turned into flesh' when someone inevitably wants to know what they actually get.

You're hilarious, man.

If you choose to run your game in such a fashion, more power to you. I'll stick with my simplistic undefined "flesh" and give it nary a thought.

Nothing funny about my post. So when someone asks 'but what kind of flesh is it?' your response is 'dude it's just flesh, like totally generic and undefined, don't go expecting me to actually tell you what it actually is that's too much effort for me to put into things'. Refusing to give answers to basic questions is not a good route to go, responses like that are quite frustrating when an exact answer is expected and should be supplied.

I can't be the only one who'd be irritated in your game asking 'okay so what kind of flesh did I just turn this stone into?' and you response was 'it's flesh.' 'But what kind of flesh?' 'Just flesh.' Behaving as if 'flesh' is a valid response when in fact it isn't, because 'flesh' is a broad category covering a wide range of things and cannot answer the question 'What kind of flesh is it?' because 'flesh' isn't a single defined thing but a category of related things. It's just as invalid as an answer as if someone asked you 'what kind of car is that?' and your response is 'it's a car'. 'Car' is not a kind a kind of car, nor is 'Flesh' a kind of flesh, muscle is a kind of flesh.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:12 pm**

So if I'm playing a character with dietary restrictions and I cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock, is it kosher?

--flatline

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:17 pm**

flatline wrote:So if I'm playing a character with dietary restrictions and I cast Stone to Flesh on a big rock, is it kosher?

--flatline

Well, that depends on how you kill it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:41 pm**

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:So when someone asks 'but what kind of flesh is it?' your response is 'dude it's just flesh, like totally generic and undefined, don't go expecting me to actually tell you what it actually is that's too much effort for me to put into things'. Refusing to give answers to basic questions is not a good route to go, responses like that are quite frustrating when an exact answer is expected and should be supplied.

That issue has never come up once in 30 years of me or my players using Stone To Flesh in this manner. So it's hilarious to watch you go into convulsions demanding the answer to a question that nobody ever asked in the first place.

You're ascribing a level of response to my reply that's completely unrelated to my actual feelings regarding it. 'I'd never bother giving someone an answer because no one ever wanted one before' is not the proper position of a GM. Just because no one's ever asked a particular question before doesn't mean you blow off the idea of anyone ever asking it, a GM's responsibility is in part to be prepared to give useful answers to any questions a player might ask.

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:I can't be the only one who'd be irritated in your game asking 'okay so what kind of flesh did I just turn this stone into?' and you response was 'it's flesh.'

But, alas, you are.

Funny, last I checked I've never been in any game you've run and just because I'm the only one who's pointed out how irritating such a response would be doesn't mean no one else would find it irritating only that they didn't bother with saying so as well.

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:'But what kind of flesh?' 'Just flesh.' Behaving as if 'flesh' is a valid response when in fact it isn't, because 'flesh' is a broad category covering a wide range of things and cannot answer the question 'What kind of flesh is it?' because 'flesh' isn't a single defined thing but a category of related things. It's just as invalid as an answer as if someone asked you 'what kind of car is that?' and your response is 'it's a car'. 'Car' is not a kind a kind of car, nor is 'Flesh' a kind of flesh, muscle is a kind of flesh.

My players and myself simply do not care about this in the way that you do. That's all there is to it.

Which is fine, until you get a player who does actually ask 'What kind of flesh is it?', then what? 'Sorry no one has ever wanted an answer to that before so I'm not going to give you one now.'

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:20 pm**

Nightmask wrote:
Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:So when someone asks 'but what kind of flesh is it?' your response is 'dude it's just flesh, like totally generic and undefined, don't go expecting me to actually tell you what it actually is that's too much effort for me to put into things'. Refusing to give answers to basic questions is not a good route to go, responses like that are quite frustrating when an exact answer is expected and should be supplied.

That issue has never come up once in 30 years of me or my players using Stone To Flesh in this manner. So it's hilarious to watch you go into convulsions demanding the answer to a question that nobody ever asked in the first place.

You're ascribing a level of response to my reply that's completely unrelated to my actual feelings regarding it. 'I'd never bother giving someone an answer because no one ever wanted one before' is not the proper position of a GM. Just because no one's ever asked a particular question before doesn't mean you blow off the idea of anyone ever asking it, a GM's responsibility is in part to be prepared to give useful answers to any questions a player might ask.

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:I can't be the only one who'd be irritated in your game asking 'okay so what kind of flesh did I just turn this stone into?' and you response was 'it's flesh.'

But, alas, you are.

Funny, last I checked I've never been in any game you've run and just because I'm the only one who's pointed out how irritating such a response would be doesn't mean no one else would find it irritating only that they didn't bother with saying so as well.

Little Snuzzles wrote:
Nightmask wrote:'But what kind of flesh?' 'Just flesh.' Behaving as if 'flesh' is a valid response when in fact it isn't, because 'flesh' is a broad category covering a wide range of things and cannot answer the question 'What kind of flesh is it?' because 'flesh' isn't a single defined thing but a category of related things. It's just as invalid as an answer as if someone asked you 'what kind of car is that?' and your response is 'it's a car'. 'Car' is not a kind a kind of car, nor is 'Flesh' a kind of flesh, muscle is a kind of flesh.

My players and myself simply do not care about this in the way that you do. That's all there is to it.

Which is fine, until you get a player who does actually ask 'What kind of flesh is it?', then what? 'Sorry no one has ever wanted an answer to that before so I'm not going to give you one now.'

Actually both Prysus and myself have given you responses to the question "what kind of meat is it?"
why continue baiting Snuzzles? He has said it is not an issue in his game and nothing (regardless of what you might think) requires him to have an answer to a question that he has never encountered.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:53 pm**

So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:00 am**

Goliath Strongarm wrote:So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

based on what other spells reference about it... (Sculpt animate clay animals)... I would say it does...
IMO its Casters choice as to what gets made (even if its a subconscious choice).

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:02 am**

Goliath Strongarm wrote:So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

Of course.
Cast the spell on a normal, round rock, and it'd look something like this.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:05 am**

Goliath Strongarm wrote:So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

And let's expand a bit.. how much of the "flesh" is muscle? Tendon? Fat? Blood vessels? Would blood cells be created?

If this is used to CREATE flesh, instead of restoring it, is this "dead" flesh? How far along the decay process would it be? Or would it be as if it were just killed?

So many possible questions arise when you start thinking outside the box on this...

Imagine a necromancer who used this to change the walls of his cavern into walls of flesh... would they start decaying, or would they be "alive"?

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:14 am**

Goliath Strongarm wrote:
Goliath Strongarm wrote:So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

And let's expand a bit.. how much of the "flesh" is muscle? Tendon? Fat? Blood vessels? Would blood cells be created?

If this is used to CREATE flesh, instead of restoring it, is this "dead" flesh? How far along the decay process would it be? Or would it be as if it were just killed?

So many possible questions arise when you start thinking outside the box on this...

Imagine a necromancer who used this to change the walls of his cavern into walls of flesh... would they start decaying, or would they be "alive"?

ok gonna go with my standard GM answer to this...
Caster Preference.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:47 am**

Damian Magecraft wrote:
Goliath Strongarm wrote:
Goliath Strongarm wrote:So before this turns into a fight.... Anyone have thoughts about the issue of bones and organs I brought up? If the spell would "recreate" these for someone turned to stone, what about if used om raw stone? Possible? Impossible? Why?

And let's expand a bit.. how much of the "flesh" is muscle? Tendon? Fat? Blood vessels? Would blood cells be created?

If this is used to CREATE flesh, instead of restoring it, is this "dead" flesh? How far along the decay process would it be? Or would it be as if it were just killed?

So many possible questions arise when you start thinking outside the box on this...

Imagine a necromancer who used this to change the walls of his cavern into walls of flesh... would they start decaying, or would they be "alive"?

ok gonna go with my standard GM answer to this...
Caster Preference.

Cool.
I'm going to use the spell to turn stones into Dragon blood vessels and bones, and sell rocks at enormous profit.

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