jolt wrote:For my personal playstyle and group, I feel the AM works better using actual martial arts forms; in this case, the ones from Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic china as I have both of those books. The problem is that I'm not sure how to actually implement it.
N&S (which is from '93) says to give the AM two forms: one at 10th level ability and a second at 4th level ability but gives no advice on how those styles should advance from those points and is referencing an earlier version of HU to boot.
HU2 suggests using the Dedicated Martial Artist as an alternative but that seems to me to be both less powerful and less versatile of an option and doesn't really capture the spirit of an Ancient Master either.
So I'm looking for
on how to incorporate the actual styles into the AM "class".
On a slightly related note, if a hero (of any type) wants to learn a martial arts style from those books, what would you make them give up to learn one? Would you allow them to learn a dedicated style?
Thanks!
jolt
First off, yes, N&SS's GM section is referencing an older version (HU Revised). So, we have to look back at HU Revised to see how the Ancient Master was there.
Looking back, a "generic" Ancient Master under HU Revised started at 1st level with the equivalent of HTH: Martial Artist at 15th level, plus Boxing (hence the 8 AT/melee). Looking at HU2, the starting combat abilities for the Ancient Master are pretty equivalent to a character with HTH: Martial Artist at 15th level plus Boxing (& possibly the Wrestling skill they now start with). The additional bonuses don't kick in until the Ancient Master progresses to a higher level.
So...if you're picking a martial art from Mystic China or Ninjas & Superspies, the listed starting level is the level the character has as a
1st-level Ancient Master. As they progress in levels (including the "roll 1D6+3 for the starting level" rule), their martial arts form will also advance, up to the maximum 15th level proficiency. I would treat the additional Ancient Master bonuses as O.C.C. bonuses, in this case applicable to any & all martial arts skills they have.
Now, if you want an option for HU2 that's more in line with the old style, I would suggest the following:
1. Character creation is as per normal rules. Don't apply the attribute minimums for PS, PP and PE until all bonuses from martial arts skills (including any additional skills and/or martial arts abilities) have been applied.
2. The character loses Wrestling, Climbing, and their 2 Physical skills of choice from their skill selections, as well as the 5 Ancient W.P. skills. Any additional skills they learn due to their martial arts skill(s) start off at the same level as the martial arts training, and progress as normal (i.e. if the character has 10th level HTH: Shao-Lin Kung Fu, then they also get Language: Chinese, Literacy: Chinese, Philosophy: Taoism [see N&SS for the skill] & Gymnastics at 10th level as well; if the character is starting out at 4th level, that's 3 levels beyond 1st level, so those skills are now at 13th level). Also, if they really want to be able to engage in weapon combat, there are plenty of forms that either offer specific W.P. katas to start, or give them the option of selecting a Weapon Kata. Note, however, that Weapon Katas will be the only way they can gain W.P. skills. If they really want weapon-based combat, suggest Moo Gi Gong (N&SS) or Shih Bah Ban Wu Yih (MC), as they start off with
all Ancient W.P. katas.
3. Hit Points are the same, but they lose the additional +6D6 from "body hardening training". However, since their PE will tend to be higher, and they have the option of some real body hardening techniques, this shouldn't be a big factor.
4. Base S.D.C. is the same, but loses the +6D6 bonus (see #3). Again, most martial arts forms already add +5 to +10 S.D.C., if not more, so they won't be hurting too badly for S.D.C.
5. The character still has all of their Ancient Master abilities, including the selection of a minor superpower and PS equivalent to the Extraordinary PS superpower. In addition, they'll have any martial arts powers that usually prove to be the equivalent of minor superpowers. And remember, things like Chi Mastery can be even more powerful than one would think, since it usually takes Chi Mastery to deal with Chi Mastery. Nothing like using Chi combat to hit an opponent with an attack that they can't defend against, or can even prevent them from healing after combat. Note that Healing Factor (the minor superpower) is specifically listed as allowing an otherwise unaware of Chi character to heal from negative Chi infections, as well as immunity from the dreaded Dim Mak attack; I would rule that any superpower (especially major powers) that provide similar or superior healing abilities to the character to provide the same (or at least powers that weren't around when N&SS was first unveiled), like Immortality. Note, however, that I would exclude Invulnerability (even the new version), because it's specifically mentioned in N&SS on p. 166 (i.e. vulnerable to Dim Mak, Pure Chi attacks inflict full damage just like magic spells & psionics, etc.).
As for the martial arts forms themselves, I would recommend the following options for character creation:
A. To keep it as simple as possible, especially if you & the players aren't as familiar with N&SS, let them select
one martial arts skill, which starts at 15th level. This makes it easier, because they've already maxed out their combat abilities (just like the "generic" Ancient Master), so it saves more time. The only exceptions should be if they choose Ninjitsu or Thai Kick Boxing, as they're described as needing 2 martial arts selections in N&SS; to reflect this, cut the Ancient Master's starting level in half (i.e. roll 1D6+3 and divide by 2, rounding down).
B. For something closer to the N&SS conversion as listed, they can pick 1 primary form (any of the available) and a
secondary form (any that's not labeled "exclusive"). The primary form starts at 10th level (which means it maxes out when the character has reached 6th level), & the secondary form starts at 3rd level (so the character won't max out until they hit 13th level). You may have to keep track of which abilities pertain to which martial art (i.e. a Weapon Kata in Shao-Lin Kung Fu doesn't apply to Pao Pat Mei/Leopard-style Kung Fu, and vice-versa), and the player has to declare at the beginning of each melee round which form they'll be using (so they can't mix & match bonuses from both forms), but it allows for some greater flexibility. Again, with this option Ninjitsu & Thai Kick Boxing both cost 2 selections, so they start off at a lower level in order to have the secondary form (starting level is 1D6+3 divided by 2, rounded down). For character creation, you'll also need to note which additional skills were learned from which form, if only to determine their starting level (i.e. a character that selected Shao-Lin Kung Fu as primary and Pao Pat Mei Kung Fu as secondary would get Language: Chinese & Literacy: Chinese from both, but the 10th level start for Shao-Lin is higher; they would get Gymnastics [starting at 10th level] from Shao-Lin, but get Prowl [starting at 3rd] from Pao Pat Mei).
C. If you really want something challenging, you can go back to N&SS 1st edition rules. Under those, the Dedicated Martial Artist could pick
three forms (1 primary and 2 secondary)...which meant you could have a Ninjitsu or Thai Kick Boxing master that also had a secondary martial art form. For our purposes, treat as Option B, but the character gets another secondary form (3 total). Same rule applies for Ninjitsu & Thai Kick Boxing characters having to start at a lower level, or they can forfeit the 2nd form to start as a normal Ancient Master (starting level 1D6+3).
Whatever of the 3 choices you pick, if you feel that their already awesome number of martial arts abilities aren't enough, you could consider letting the Ancient Master learn some additional ones at higher level. For example, Shao-Lin Kung Fu starts off with 2 special abilities, and provides the opportunity to learn 4 more as the character progresses. As a house rule/GM option, I could see the Ancient Master being able to add an additional special ability once he reaches levels 7, 10, 13 and 15, to mirror the additional 4 he already learned. Snake Style Kung Fu, on the other hand, starts with 1 special ability plus 1 "Zenjoriki" power, & doubles the starting base Chi, then adds 2 more Zenjorikis, 3 more special abilities, & doubles Chi 3 more times. I would allow that Ancient Master to add another Zenjoriki power at 9th & 15th levels, add a special aiblity at levels 7, 10 & 13, & double the Chi at levels 8, 12 and 14. However, that would strictly be up to the GM, as that does have the potential of making them extremely powerful.
I'll work on providing some examples of how that would look for a particular character. I'll roll up their attributes & show the stats/skills/combat abilities under the "generic" version, then provide a reworked version using certain martial arts under the options presented above.
EDIT: changed the Options so that, instead of losing the secondary forms, characters that have Ninjitsu or Thai Kick Boxing start at a lower level than other characters.
It uses the Jian Chih (weapon artist, or whatever) OCC from Mystic China if I recall.