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For the purposes of a few spells (Circle of Protection, Expel Demons, Constrain Being, Summon and Control, Dominate, and etc.) and a few Shifter abilities (pacts, battle of wills, familiar / Greater familiar, and etc.)

Would folks mind tossing out some examples of the three categories of monster / entity?

Thus far with Summon and Control Lesser Being I (as the GM) have allowed the Shifter to summon a Valkyrie, a Brodkil, and a Metzla.

I was operating under the assumption that Greater Supernatural Creatures are things like Greater demons / deevils, angels, greater elementals, and certain entities. Lesser Supernatural Creatures classify things like Berserkers, Valkyrie, Gargoyles, Oni, Daemonix, Metzla, Brodkil, and etc. Creatures of Magic are Dragons, Sowki, Faeries, Brownies, and things of that nature. And Aliens / D-Bees with supernatural PS / PP are still just D-Bees or maybe Lesser SN Creatures.

Please weigh in on this. I feel like I'm close but not quite getting the fullest picture and our resident seventh level Shifter has been cavorting with Demons, Deevils, Metzla, and Valkyries -- and I'm hoping that I've been GMing it correctly.

Also, his Mental Affinity (as a Sowki) is like 22 or 24, so how is anything supposed to win a Battle of Wills with him? I've basically been playing it like they get their three normal tries to roll a Nat 20 otherwise they succumb to his super persuasive nature and he makes a deal / pact.

You got things right with the normal SN and CoM.

Races that are described are being SN are SN. Otherwise they are not.
Yes, there are beings with SN PS that are not SN and not CoM.

However, a GM can blur the lines to make things possible that are not strictly kosher. But then again the books do not have hard rules about what is or is not SN or CoM.

You may already have this information, but this is the few tidbits I can offer:

This is a semi-official link that talks about some lesser and greater supernatural creatures, in #20: http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/questions/monster.html

The spell Protection Circle: Simple lists a few lesser versus greaters as well.

Protection Circle: Simple wrote:Although lesser supernatural beings, including lesser demons, Entities, Ghouls, and Gremlins, can not come near or enter the circle, they can hurl objects, use weapons, or use magic and psychic powers against those inside the circle. Greater beings, such as vampires, Elementals and demigods, are not affected by the simple circle and can enter effortlessly.

Witchcraft wrote:Also, his Mental Affinity (as a Sowki) is like 22 or 24, so how is anything supposed to win a Battle of Wills with him? I've basically been playing it like they get their three normal tries to roll a Nat 20 otherwise they succumb to his super persuasive nature and he makes a deal / pact.

Here's two things about this issue that you may wish to incorporate into future battles. Both these come from the Rifts: Ultimate Edition Shifter class abilities, on page 123:

"To save versus submission, the summoned being must roll above the Shifter's M.A. attribute (Mental Affinity), three out of five times. Rolls are made on a 20-sided die (1D20) and M.E. attribute bonuses and bonuses to save vs mind control are added to the creature's roll to save."

That section goes on to acknowledge that Shifters with an M.A. of 20 or higher will have an easy time winning these battles, but then says:

"However, there are additional tests of dominance in which an extremely high M.A. may not help."

You may wish to also review the "Limitations & Conditions of Simple Pacts of Servitude" on page 124 of R:UE.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:You got things right with the normal SN and CoM.

Races that are described are being SN are SN. Otherwise they are not.
Yes, there are beings with SN PS that are not SN and not CoM.

However, a GM can blur the lines to make things possible that are not strictly kosher. But then again the books do not have hard rules about what is or is not SN or CoM.

Mysteries of Magic does provide definitions for both CoM and SN, though IIRC it doesn't provide any list for an example. Basic rule of thumb is if it has a life-cycle like a mortal would (even if it's a really long time) and can do innate magic powers it should be considered a CoM.

thanks for all the input!

Mysteries of Magic is just essential... hoping they continue the series.