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While Stalkers can't tell apart the smell of a mage from the smell of a psychic, if he has See Aura, he can see that there are magical abilities.

While there is 'Alter Aura' and 'Mask PPE' which can hide it, the problem is that a Psi-Stalker can detect psionic powers in use, so using these would make them suspicious and they might ask you to stop using psionics or assume the worst.

A psychic can just use 'Mask ISP and Psionics' to hide their abilities from a Psi-Stalker, but mages lack this luxury. I don't know of any way for a mage to make themselves off-limits as a food source for Psi-Stalkers.

What are ways this can be done? I'm sure the Vanguard would appreciate knowing this so they can co-exist with the CS without being targetted.

The 9th level invocation Transferal would do the trick.

I'll note that any human mage has the usual 25% chance of having minor or major psionics. even if your just a minor, mask ISP&psionics and mask PPE would be available as two sensititve powers of choice.

But the Combat Mage Spell Mystic Invisibility completely masks the users aura as well as completely masking their psychic or supernatural scent--a dragon would be utterly undetectable if he was right in front of an entire stalker tribe.

It also has such useful spells as Syphon PPE from Object (letting you drain TW e-clips and devices to reclaim the energy, not possible otherwise), Blast Sheild (completely stops all explosive damage, regardless of power), Engine Flame-out (Knocks out any jet powered flying vehicle, no save), Sense traps & mines (grants skill at 94%), Superhuman agility (+5 autododge and grants the mage autododge), Erase Trail (erases all physical trails they leave behind), and Quickaction (+10 on the next strike parry dodge action, AND allows you to beat a natural 20 if you beat the total roll after bonus's by 5.

That's just a breif list of the highlights. I have no idea why palladium didn't stick these spells on the front advertisement. ANY invocational mage can learn them.

Mercenary Adventures.

Glistam wrote:The 9th level invocation Transferal would do the trick.

Isn't that the one where you have to give away your magic and go back and get it later? That sucks if I want to engage in magical terrorism!

I don't remember if this means whoever you give it to registers as magic though. If they don't, then you could sneak them in separately from yourself and go and get it later, which would be interesting.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'll note that any human mage has the usual 25% chance of having minor or major psionics. even if your just a minor, mask ISP&psionics and mask PPE would be available as two sensititve powers of choice.

Yeah, what sucks is that the Mask ISP power says you can't use other psionics while using it. Which I think kinda sucks. I mean I agree about not using stuff like Psi-Sword but I think using other stealth abilities or sensitive abilities being allowed would've been nice.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Mystic Invisibility completely masks the users aura as well as completely masking their psychic or supernatural scent--a dragon would be utterly undetectable if he was right in front of an entire stalker tribe.

Finally, a tool for the Vanguard to coexist with their brethren. Merc Advent ftw.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Syphon PPE from Object (letting you drain TW e-clips and devices to reclaim the energy, not possible otherwise)
Blast Sheild (completely stops all explosive damage, regardless of power)
Engine Flame-out (Knocks out any jet powered flying vehicle, no save)
Sense traps & mines (grants skill at 94%)
Superhuman agility (+5 autododge and grants the mage autododge)
Erase Trail (erases all physical trails they leave behind)
Quickaction (+10 on the next strike parry dodge action, AND allows you to beat a natural 20 if you beat the total roll after bonus's by 5.
That's just a breif list of the highlights. I have no idea why palladium didn't stick these spells on the front advertisement. ANY invocational mage can learn them.

Yeah these look pretty amazing. I'm already figuring out if I can hook up some TW Dyno-Bots with these things. I wonder if Thoth has.

Thoth knows all of them by default, the real question is has Thoth remembered to get around to making TW bots with them.

Thoth is too dangerous. He doesn't even have to put in the time to learn OCCs, he can just copy them from any follower, even without their consent... simply adoring him... honoring him... gives him a gateway into all your acquired skills...

People may condemn people like Amon... but she has the right idea.

Tor wrote:While there is 'Alter Aura' and 'Mask PPE' which can hide it, the problem is that a Psi-Stalker can detect psionic powers in use, so using these would make them suspicious and they might ask you to stop using psionics or assume the worst.

Interesting thought this brings up. I always pictured a dog boy's sensitivity to magic (at the greater range) to apply when the spell is cast, not for spells already in effect. Now mind you, even if you make passive spells harder to detect, then the dog boy can just plain sense the mage.

I believe I have an idea for a spell.

The way I figure unless it specifically states it bypasses a hound/stalker scent check, it won't.

We can naturally extend this to a lot of similar abilities that other classes have though, like Dark Hounds, Psyscapers, Witch Finders, Ectoplasmic Hunters.

Never mind on the spell idea, I see its already been done.

I was just looking at the PFMB's See aura text and sees nothing about it sensing whether or not the person is a mage. Only that it senses magic. Which if you ignore all the "tradition"meaning and look at just what the words mean unto themselves, it means they will sense magic objects & active spells. But if the mage is not a CoM or a SN, then Why would it sense if the person is a mage?

Yes, the PPE level would be a hint of what the person is, but that is fudge-able if the mage discharges her PPE down to a normal person's level.

Yes, I know that the normal interpretation of the sense magic line is that it will tell if the person is a mage or not. but the topic go my mind thinking outside the box.

Both CB1 and Dark Conversions state that practitioners of magic are creatures of magic, so presumably you would see magic in them.

That's a book I haven't looked at in a while, the Dark Conversion book.

Tor wrote:Both CB1 and Dark Conversions state that practitioners of magic are creatures of magic, so presumably you would see magic in them.

Yet another example of something not megaversal... because from a PF point of view, a practitioner of magic isn't a creature of magic..

Tor wrote:Both CB1 and Dark Conversions state that practitioners of magic are creatures of magic, so presumably you would see magic in them.

Can you state the page in each for us? RCB1 or RCB1r?

CB1 fifth printing October 1996 (I don't think revised) pg 43 right column under note right before 'select super-powers' : "creatures of magic (including men of magic)"

Pretty sure either CB3 (Dark Conversions) or RUE also reiterated this, am looking through them now. Memory isn't as awesome for newer stuff, will get back to you. Could possibly be in the rant disambiguating the differences between SBs and CoM but can't seem to locate it.

That would mean that the punches and kicks of a mage would damage a were-being.

Does being a creature of magic, award any abilities in Rifts 'automatically'? Aside from being a dog boy/psi-stalker beacon?

SittingBull wrote:Does being a creature of magic, award any abilities in Rifts 'automatically'? Aside from being a dog boy/psi-stalker beacon?

Yah, you can punch vampires, werewolves, and invunerable creatures to death, and split zavor by touch This goes in the 'silly rules' file in my book, but thats just me there.

The Zavor point only makes me worry about playing a mage now. LOL!

Id go with later aura or mask ppe working but turning the power on in range of a dog boy or psi stalker would still register.

Dog boy "I sensed magic/psionics for a moment and now its gone. Logically someone either hiding their power from me, or someone just teleported away from here."

Its not a fullproof fix for hiding from the CS but its how i do it.

Riftmaker, the general assumption I believe, is that even those active spells would be detectable.

SittingBull wrote:Riftmaker, the general assumption I believe, is that even those active spells would be detectable.

If thats true then how do you hide from a psi stalker? If you can't hide from them it closes a lot of adventure potential.

Mystic Invisibility completely masks the users aura as well as completely masking their psychic or supernatural scent--a dragon would be utterly undetectable if he was right in front of an entire stalker tribe.

A spell out of mercenary adventures.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote::shock: That would mean that the punches and kicks of a mage would damage a were-being.

That would be awesome.

SittingBull wrote:Does being a creature of magic, award any abilities in Rifts 'automatically'? Aside from being a dog boy/psi-stalker beacon?

Actually, since dog boys and psi-stalkers sense 'supernatural' beings and a distinction is made between supies and magies, I am unsure if CoM would be detected.

Do we have examples of these guys sensing things like Fairies or Dragons?

Although I did just realize: the whole "becomes a creature of magic" aspect of the Lord Magus is a bit odd if all magic practitioners were considered that. We could just take it to mean 'becomes MORE magical creaturish" ala the whole invisbility/MDC/regen/lifespan gradiation.

eliakon wrote:you can punch vampires, werewolves, and invunerable creatures to death, and split zavor by touch This goes in the 'silly rules' file in my book, but thats just me there.

What's silly about this? Keep pretending magic is just this safe detached non-dangerous skill thing. Magic is dangerous. It changes you.

That learning a magic OCC makes you a creature akin to a sphinx or dragon only hits home that the CS is right.

I have a solid memory of the CB1 statement being reiterated, soon as I find it, bricks will be dropped.

I remember a rant somewhere where it said dragons consider themselves more like human beings than like supernatural creatures like demons. I just can't seem to find it again. I'm sure it was there. Can anyone else remember reading that? Will re-read RUE and CB3 til I find I guess.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Syphon PPE from Object (letting you drain TW e-clips and devices to reclaim the energy, not possible otherwise)

Its noted in RUE, under TW item creation, that ppe can be removed from an item made to store PPE to power itsself. Granted its not a tw e-clip. A character can drain 10 PPE per action (20 if your a TW).

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Syphon PPE from Object (letting you drain TW e-clips and devices to reclaim the energy, not possible otherwise)

Its noted in RUE, under TW item creation, that ppe can be removed from an item made to store PPE to power itsself. Granted its not a tw e-clip. A character can drain 10 PPE per action (20 if your a TW).

And it's hardly the only time palladium books have contradicted themselves

Just saying.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I was just looking at the PFMB's See aura text and sees nothing about it sensing whether or not the person is a mage. Only that it senses magic. Which if you ignore all the "tradition"meaning and look at just what the words mean unto themselves, it means they will sense magic objects & active spells. But if the mage is not a CoM or a SN, then Why would it sense if the person is a mage?

Yes, the PPE level would be a hint of what the person is, but that is fudge-able if the mage discharges her PPE down to a normal person's level.

Yes, I know that the normal interpretation of the sense magic line is that it will tell if the person is a mage or not. but the topic go my mind thinking outside the box.

As I see this, if you use See Aura on someone and you get the result that the person has "a presence of magic and a high PPE" that can mean that you are sanding before a level 15 archmage of Dweomer or a ordinary person who is mundane, but has the potential of becomming a mage.

Well, what is a high or low amount of PPE? as most human adults have 2-6 PPE, having just 20 PPE would be considered high. So a Cyberknight with his +6D6 PPE would be seen as having a high PPE, though he would not register as having any presence of magic. Likeways a Psi Ghost with her 3D4+4 PPE would be considered high, if it was a human that looked at them

But what is "presence of magic" - I go as far as saying that if you are a mage, you have this presence. But also if you are a psionic and carry a TW item, your aura will be tainted by the magic aura of the item. Especially if it something that is connected to your naked skin.

Magical objects have their own auras, when charged/active. (yes, a discharged TW magic item does not read as magical thus the wording.)

So a person's aura would not be "tainted" by the magical object, but the magical object's aura will be blatantly "there" to read.
--------------------------
Just thought of this question....would a Rune weapon/item read being 'possessed'?

Tor wrote:

SittingBull wrote:Does being a creature of magic, award any abilities in Rifts 'automatically'? Aside from being a dog boy/psi-stalker beacon?

Actually, since dog boys and psi-stalkers sense 'supernatural' beings and a distinction is made between supies and magies, I am unsure if CoM would be detected.

Do we have examples of these guys sensing things like Fairies or Dragons?

Although I did just realize: the whole "becomes a creature of magic" aspect of the Lord Magus is a bit odd if all magic practitioners were considered that. We could just take it to mean 'becomes MORE magical creaturish" ala the whole invisbility/MDC/regen/lifespan gradiation.

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).

As for Dragons, I am not so certain of that. A lot of the dragon hatchlings that I saw (the ones in the RUE) had a starting PPE range of 20-130 (they all didn't have that range, but no dragon that I saw had a minimum lower than that or a maximum higher than that).

Personally, I would say that they do show up as having more than 80 PPE at all times regardless of how much that they actually have simply because their entire body is infused with magic. But that is just how I would handle the situation.

dragonfett wrote:snip...

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).
..snip

How would they, since they pull all the PPE for casting their racial spells from the environment?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:snip...

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).
..snip

How would they, since they pull all the PPE for casting their racial spells from the environment?

I don't recall the book stating the P.P.E. for their spells came from the environment, just that casting a spell did not use any of their P.P.E.. Could you please provide the book and page number for this?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:snip...

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).
..snip

How would they, since they pull all the PPE for casting their racial spells from the environment?

I was in a group where one of the players was a Silver Bell (?) Faerie Ley Line Walker.

dragonfett wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:snip...

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).
..snip

How would they, since they pull all the PPE for casting their racial spells from the environment?

I was in a group where one of the players was a Silver Bell (?) Faerie Ley Line Walker.

So it was a house-rule in two things. *nods*

1st: Letting a faerie char take a class.
2nd: Making up a rule to cover the above 'letting a faerie take a class'.

In those conditions I see how the 80 PPE threshold was chosen.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:snip...

Well all Faeries would be able to be detected due to the fact that they all have a PPE reserve of 100-600 PPE (unless they use up enough of it to fall below 80 PPE).
..snip

How would they, since they pull all the PPE for casting their racial spells from the environment?

I was in a group where one of the players was a Silver Bell (?) Faerie Ley Line Walker.

So it was a house-rule in two things. *nods*

1st: Letting a faerie char take a class.
2nd: Making up a rule to cover the above 'letting a faerie take a class'.

In those conditions I see how the 80 PPE threshold was chosen.

The 80 PPE threshold is a part of the Psi-Stalkers ability, not the Faeries.

Looking back now, I honestly don't understand the decision to let the player make the character, but I am thinking the GM may have overlooked some rule or other or something along those lines.

Goliath Strongarm wrote:from a PF point of view, a practitioner of magic isn't a creature of magic..

Where's it say this in PF?

SittingBull wrote:The Zavor point only makes me worry about playing a mage now. LOL!

Why? Most mages wouldn't go about punching Zavor anyway. All it means is, like a dragon, they could go about creating an army of them to terrorize an area pretty rapidly. A mage is capable as anyone else of using wooden weapons and the like to get rid of them.

If you're stuck in HtH with Zavor, I don't think mundane attacks hurt them anyway, so you may as well body flip them, and a mage can do that as well as anyone else since the damage from body flips (not that Zavor would take any, unless you threw them into some wood spikes) comes from the impact with the ground, not the grappling of the combatant.

Dunia wrote:As I see this, if you use See Aura on someone and you get the result that the person has "a presence of magic and a high PPE" that can mean that you are sanding before a level 15 archmage of Dweomer or a ordinary person who is mundane, but has the potential of becomming a mage.

The potential of becoming a mage isn't the same as being one. Former's not magic, latter is. If you know a spell, you're magical.

If it was just PPE being sensed, Cyber-knights and the like might confuse them though. But they shouldn't count as magical...

Least not originally. SoT4 muddies the issue by having the cyber-armor enhanced via Techno-Wizardry, which might have CKs register as magic now.

Dunia wrote:But what is "presence of magic" - I go as far as saying that if you are a mage, you have this presence. But also if you are a psionic and carry a TW item, your aura will be tainted by the magic aura of the item. Especially if it something that is connected to your naked skin.

Pretty sure owning Techno-Wizard devices in the Coalition States is illegal, so they could separate that from you and THEN figure out if you're a psychic or mage.

Rogue_Scientist wrote:We play that anything that masks PPE or ISP also removes it from your "aura".

The problem though, is Mask PPE doesn't hide the fact that a psychic power is being used. Psi-stalkers would eventually get intel from CS that there exist psionics to mask PPE/magic and to be suspicious of any psychics actively using their abilities why scanned.

There is a reason why the CS registers their psychics, I think. It is through that means by which they can tell which know magic or not. Now and then they check in, get them isolated in a room, not using any powers, and see if they're magic or not.

There has to be SOME reason that the CS isn't full to the brim with Mystics who have Mask PPE, and this is it. Even Mystic Invisibility could be skirted by having waiting periods during the registration process. They would find out how long spells like MI could last and wait it out to see if they recast it.

Tor wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:from a PF point of view, a practitioner of magic isn't a creature of magic..

Where's it say this in PF?

SittingBull wrote:The Zavor point only makes me worry about playing a mage now. LOL!

Why? Most mages wouldn't go about punching Zavor anyway. All it means is, like a dragon, they could go about creating an army of them to terrorize an area pretty rapidly. A mage is capable as anyone else of using wooden weapons and the like to get rid of them.

If you're stuck in HtH with Zavor, I don't think mundane attacks hurt them anyway, so you may as well body flip them, and a mage can do that as well as anyone else since the damage from body flips (not that Zavor would take any, unless you threw them into some wood spikes) comes from the impact with the ground, not the grappling of the combatant.

Dunia wrote:As I see this, if you use See Aura on someone and you get the result that the person has "a presence of magic and a high PPE" that can mean that you are sanding before a level 15 archmage of Dweomer or a ordinary person who is mundane, but has the potential of becomming a mage.

The potential of becoming a mage isn't the same as being one. Former's not magic, latter is. If you know a spell, you're magical.

If it was just PPE being sensed, Cyber-knights and the like might confuse them though. But they shouldn't count as magical...

Least not originally. SoT4 muddies the issue by having the cyber-armor enhanced via Techno-Wizardry, which might have CKs register as magic now.

Dunia wrote:But what is "presence of magic" - I go as far as saying that if you are a mage, you have this presence. But also if you are a psionic and carry a TW item, your aura will be tainted by the magic aura of the item. Especially if it something that is connected to your naked skin.

Pretty sure owning Techno-Wizard devices in the Coalition States is illegal, so they could separate that from you and THEN figure out if you're a psychic or mage.

Rogue_Scientist wrote:We play that anything that masks PPE or ISP also removes it from your "aura".

The problem though, is Mask PPE doesn't hide the fact that a psychic power is being used. Psi-stalkers would eventually get intel from CS that there exist psionics to mask PPE/magic and to be suspicious of any psychics actively using their abilities why scanned.

There is a reason why the CS registers their psychics, I think. It is through that means by which they can tell which know magic or not. Now and then they check in, get them isolated in a room, not using any powers, and see if they're magic or not.

There has to be SOME reason that the CS isn't full to the brim with Mystics who have Mask PPE, and this is it. Even Mystic Invisibility could be skirted by having waiting periods during the registration process. They would find out how long spells like MI could last and wait it out to see if they recast it.

There is also the psychic power Mask ISP and Psionics which would then block the presence of any psychic powers.

Also, most TW items don't read as inherently magical unless it can store PPE. At that point, soldiers in the field have to tell the difference between a TW item and a Bedazzled object.

dragonfett wrote:There is also the psychic power Mask ISP and Psionics which would then block the presence of any psychic powers.

I mentioned this in the original post...

The problem with it is you can't use other psychic powers (like mask PPE) while using it.

dragonfett wrote:Also, most TW items don't read as inherently magical unless it can store PPE. At that point, soldiers in the field have to tell the difference between a TW item and a Bedazzled object.

That's great for psychics and mundanes carrying around TW gear but doesn't help the sorcerers much.

Tor wrote:

dragonfett wrote:There is also the psychic power Mask ISP and Psionics which would then block the presence of any psychic powers.

I mentioned this in the original post...

The problem with it is you can't use other psychic powers (like mask PPE) while using it.

dragonfett wrote:Also, most TW items don't read as inherently magical unless it can store PPE. At that point, soldiers in the field have to tell the difference between a TW item and a Bedazzled object.

That's great for psychics and mundanes carrying around TW gear but doesn't help the sorcerers much.

I don't see where in the description of the power that it says that powers activated prior it using Mask ISP do not continue to function for the full duration of that power.

It's sort of a murky issue. Mask ISP says "cannot use any of his psionic senses or abilities". It says "use" rather than "activate", which says to me that it not only prevents activating new powers, but also prevents him from continuing to use previously activated powers as well.

If it didn't work this way, it would allow you to do stuff like activate a psi-sword and then mask your psionics, or move stuff around with previously activated telekinesis while not appearing psychic.