Faerie's Dance vs. Auto-Dodge

[Goliath Strongarm]

Hey fellow citizens...

Here's one for everyone to ponder: If someone doesn't save vs. magic, the Faeries Dance says the person can only dance about like a fool and that they are "completely helpless". This must be, because the Faeries then usually proceed to strip them of their gear & clothes (!) and dump it somewhere. I have to say that you'd have to be pretty damn helpless to let an enemy take off your clothes, right?

But what happens when someone like a Lanotaur Hunter, who has auto-dodge (and then some), gets hit with it? Do they still get their auto-dodge roll or are they screwed?

What do you think?

They're hosed...

They had their chance with the save vs magic.. at this point, the fae magic has complete and total control of their movements..

This isn't a situation that dodge would even apply, so auto-dodge doesn't matter.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Hey fellow citizens...

Here's one for everyone to ponder: If someone doesn't save vs. magic, the Faeries Dance says the person can only dance about like a fool and that they are "completely helpless". This must be, because the Faeries then usually proceed to strip them of their gear & clothes (!) and dump it somewhere. I have to say that you'd have to be pretty damn helpless to let an enemy take off your clothes, right?

But what happens when someone like a Lanotaur Hunter, who has auto-dodge (and then some), gets hit with it? Do they still get their auto-dodge roll or are they screwed?

What do you think?

I wouldn't see auto dodge would help them. All an auto dodge is is a dodge that dosn't use a melee attack. If something prevents dodging, such as being caught doing the faries dance, then by definition auto dodge cannot be used either.

[Noon]

Depends on how I judge game balance. If the spell is being used to set up a 'your naked and need to survive' scenario, that's interesting. If it gets used as a 'they cast it then shoot you in the back of the head' (most likely used like this by players) I'd adjust it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Depends on how I judge game balance. If the spell is being used to set up a 'your naked and need to survive' scenario, that's interesting. If it gets used as a 'they cast it then shoot you in the back of the head' (most likely used like this by players) I'd adjust it.

So the spells effect changes depending on if PC's or NPC's are using it?

I don't really see what the problem would be either way. there are plenty of spells that incapcaitate someone on a failed saving throw. agony, mindshatter, cloud of slumber, magic net. there are lots of spells and ways for magic to set up a group of enemys for an instant-death round. farie dance isn't even the worst of them.

[Goliath Strongarm]

My stance- they fail the save, they fail the save... there is no dodging. Of course, they are dancing wildly, so anyone trying to shoot them would have penalties...

[Noon]

Depends on how I judge game balance. If the spell is being used to set up a 'your naked and need to survive' scenario, that's interesting. If it gets used as a 'they cast it then shoot you in the back of the head' (most likely used like this by players) I'd adjust it.

So the spells effect changes depending on if PC's or NPC's are using it?

The description has the fairies stripping their clothes off. It doesn't describe, as yet, whether you can shoot someone in the head instead of just make them nekkid.

I don't really see what the problem would be either way. there are plenty of spells that incapcaitate someone on a failed saving throw. agony, mindshatter, cloud of slumber, magic net. there are lots of spells and ways for magic to set up a group of enemys for an instant-death round. farie dance isn't even the worst of them.

Depends on whether as GM you've killed any PC's with those spells. If not, that's why you don't see a problem either way - who sees a problem with something they never use?

[Goliath Strongarm]

Ok.. I'm going to back up a bit... I decided to look at something, because this started going to "in the hands of players"... and I want to say, I was wrong before.

*******
Version 1-PF, Pg 206 The SPELL
Dancing victims cannot perform skills, have no initiative, and are -8 to strike, parry, or dodge.

Version 2-M&A, Pg 59, The Faerie Ring, describes basically the same thing, but -10, because it's a stronger effect.

Version 3-M&A Pg 61, The Faerie Ability...
(summing up, not quoting) repeats the -8, and talks about the stripping and hiding valuables, which isn't mentioned under the spell version (which is why I list this completely seperately, as this is more what the original post was about)
*********************

Based upon relooking at everything....

Yes, the character WILL get a dodge... doesn't matter if it's autododge or not. The penalties apply, of course, but he DOES get the dodge.

The problem is if you're talking fae, you get a whole bunch of little, fast, <snips> flying around cutting your clothes off, while you're flailing wildly... yeah, they're stripping you nekkid.

I would still apply a penalty to anyone trying to shoot or strike at them... Probably somewhere in the -5 area... because of the flailing, moving dancing target that is going to be difficult to hit...

[Tor]

There seems to be a bit of a conflict in the stats and the flavour text then. Being able to strike/parry/dodge (even if penalized) is hardly helpless.

[Goliath Strongarm]

There seems to be a bit of a conflict in the stats and the flavour text then. Being able to strike/parry/dodge (even if penalized) is hardly helpless.

Agreed, but then, this wouldn't be the first time there has been a conflict in a Palladium book...

[Goliath Strongarm]

Version 3-M&A Pg 61, The Faerie Ability...
(summing up, not quoting) repeats the -8, and talks about the stripping and hiding valuables, which isn't mentioned under the spell version (which is why I list this completely seperately, as this is more what the original post was about)
*********************

Based upon relooking at everything....

Yes, the character WILL get a dodge... doesn't matter if it's autododge or not. The penalties apply, of course, but he DOES get the dodge.

Ok, but still at -8 and they're stuck in the same place. That's good enough for me.

I would still apply a penalty to anyone trying to shoot or strike at them... Probably somewhere in the -5 area... because of the flailing, moving dancing target that is going to be difficult to hit...

I would get past that by using a area-effect spell or a good old-fashioned grenade launcher. They can't dodge a blast radius.

Depends on the size of the faerie ring that they're dancing in, or if outside a ring, the size of the area that they dance in... doesn't say they stand in one square foot of space doing the hokey-pokey (although, that could fit with fae humor).

Also, depends on where in the area that the AE spell or grenade hits...

[Tor]

As far as the dance keeping people in the radius of nades/missiles, it's pretty hard to get outside of those via dodging anyway. I don't even know how that's figured out, tbh. Is it something like your jumping distance via acrobatics is the max distance you can move via a dodge?

Once they are under the effect of the spell, you could drop a plasma grenade at the feet and they wouldn't be able to dodge it. Game over man, game over.

Don't you need to keep dancing to keep the spell in effect?

Course you might be able to incorporate some 'nade-lobbin' into the footwork.