Forums of the Megaverse®

wyrmraker wrote:None of the above, actually. I prefer the Wild Weasel or Sidewinder. The vernier thrust system makes bizarre maneuvers actually possible.

Alrik Vas wrote:Of the options, I go with the original SAM. Though i prefer the Spec-Ops variant.

Icefalcon wrote:Broken ones.

Alrik Vas wrote:Of the options, I go with the original SAM.

mobuttu wrote:After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

Icefalcon wrote:Broken ones.

Eashamahel wrote:Why is it the entire CS infantry isn't in SAMAS again?

Also, does your graph take cost into account, or just raw ability?

Nightmask wrote:
Because then they aren't really infantry then and not cost effective. Infantry can do its job just fine with good body armor and man-portable weapons, power armor like SAMAS is more in the air-support category.

flatline wrote:So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

Icefalcon wrote:

flatline wrote:So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

flatline wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

flatline wrote:So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

And running is probably just as loud (and you probably sink into the ground considering how much a SAMAS weighs).

Oh well. I wouldn't mind a suit that makes me stronger and faster, but not if it removes my ability to sneak around.

--flatline

Icefalcon wrote:

flatline wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

flatline wrote:So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

And running is probably just as loud (and you probably sink into the ground considering how much a SAMAS weighs).

Oh well. I wouldn't mind a suit that makes me stronger and faster, but not if it removes my ability to sneak around.

--flatline

That is the trade-off. You give up stealth for increased speed, strength, protection and firepower. A lot of things in life are like that. It comes down to choosing what you are willing to give up for an increase in another area.

flatline wrote:

Gryphon wrote:Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Nightmask wrote:

flatline wrote:

Gryphon wrote:Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

flatline wrote:

Gryphon wrote:Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

SAMAS have tiny nuclear reactors in them. They would be detectable just because of the nuclear material from halfway across the country, even with today's tech.

Nightmask wrote:

flatline wrote:

Gryphon wrote:Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

Eashamahel wrote:Just so we are clear, the Violator SAMAS is the one in free Quebec, which uses the same theory as a jet-plane with it's wings sharpened, right? Just bashes into things with them and cuts them in-half, due to the fact that collisions inflict ridiculous amounts of MD in most Rifts books.

Eashamahel wrote:Just so we are clear, the Violator SAMAS is the one in free Quebec, which uses the same theory as a jet-plane with it's wings sharpened, right? Just bashes into things with them and cuts them in-half, due to the fact that collisions inflict ridiculous amounts of MD in most Rifts books.

Nightmask wrote:I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

The Beast wrote:

Nightmask wrote:I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#International_spread_of_radioactive_substances

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDS-1

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

flatline wrote:Which collision rules are you referring to?

--flatline

Daniel Stoker wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Nightmask wrote:I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#International_spread_of_radioactive_substances

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDS-1

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

That's all unshielded material, not material as part of a reactor that would be shielded to keep the user you know.. alive.


Daniel Stoker

Zamion138 wrote:

mobuttu wrote:After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

I love your graphs, but i do think it doesn't really take the sidewinders "special" abilities into full effect, its the best comms in all of rifts earth. Im not sure if its repersented in the stars for defense on the missile override and deflection rating.
Anyhow i deffintly love the graphs even if i disagree with the sidewinder not being like 3rd

mobuttu wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

mobuttu wrote:After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

I love your graphs, but i do think it doesn't really take the sidewinders "special" abilities into full effect, its the best comms in all of rifts earth. Im not sure if its repersented in the stars for defense on the missile override and deflection rating.
Anyhow i deffintly love the graphs even if i disagree with the sidewinder not being like 3rd

Thanks for your kind words.

Countermeasures are indeed taken into account in the Wild Weasel Firepower (combat) entry. It has 4 stars, better than the 3 stars of the "common" SAMAS in that issue. Also, Sidewinder maneuverability are also in the graphs under "Bonuses" entry: see they have the top qualification on that (6 stars). unfortunately comm aspects were neglected in the comparison aspects, though I agree it's a very good feature on their part.