Powers in rifts

[The Beast]

IMO, it depends on the power level everyone's wanting to play in.

[Bill]

I'm cool with it.

[say652]

a big yes on that rifs earth is loaded with mutants and aliens. using the conversion book(which has a pretty narrow scope of powers) i see nothing wrong with using or allowing supers in a rifts game. i like the concept of a superhero in a post apacolyptic world. spandex vs power armor.

[Icefalcon]

I will allow them as long as it is only from the conversion book. On top of that, I usually would go over the starting powers to police any "untouchable" munchkin characters.

[wyrmraker]

To quote Johnnycat93:
"Lord no,
I think super powers are pure evil and do not let them anywhere near my campaigns, for I fear the consequences would be terrible...
At first, all would appear normal. But then it would begin: the earth would become dry and cracked, the seas would turn the blackest of black, and one would be able to taste the vile char of rot on the air. Then, one day, the sun would simply fail to rise and the world would be cast into an eternal twilight. Creatures born in this age of shadow would be abominations of nature, a product of the twisted existence which spawned them. The separation between planes would be abolished, and one world would leak into the next. From betwixt the very fabric of space and time horrors would arise to plague the dying universe, eldritch aberrations drawn from the inky darkness of mans mind. Then, life as we know it would simply give up. Ley lines would flash an angry red, facilitating the destruction of everything around them. Animals would cease trying to survive and would just starve on the forest floor as the trees burned around them. Psychics would be able to sense the inaudible screams of a dying universe and would be driven mad by the cacophony of voices. From here the End will make its presence known as he will rise up from amongst the chaos, boring his way into the very essence of creation. Those that look upon it will know serenity in its form and will be immolated in its glory. Finally, as the embers of life burn out across the expanse of space, it will utter from its mouth the song that destroys the world..."

For my own experience, I have created walking devastation using super powers in Rifts as a lesson to a GM who didn't understand just how powerful this stuff could get. A few Minor powers and suddenly I have 8 attacks per melee, add in power armor training and that could get bumped to at least ten.
At first level.

[Akashic Soldier]

This is my favorite post.
EVER.

You can't have someone else quoting you as your favorite post ever. Its against all rules of humility.

[GenThunderfist]

New power concept: Endless Fish...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuKV2Z3eYTY

FAIR WARNING: The above could easily be offensive and is extremely violent.

Also on another note, I think I want a power known as "Reality Revision". I get to do what I want when I want...it's a pretty cool concept. I mean, using the power of my imagination to completely change and revoke the reality around me? BEST. SUPERHERO. EVER. Also, completely balanced within the Rifts setting. I mean...there's Dragons there. Dragons people...and Gods...and Juicers. Like what? 5 Juicers...scary stuff. Game balance.

So no...no superpowers...the ones that necessitate me to use the books are too powerful, and the ones that I would allow have easy equivalents. So no. I'm not doing that much work to make a personal "Rifts: Powers Completely Limited" for myself...and rewrite certain rules on powers...not worth it.

[Akashic Soldier]

OKAY, as for this whole "G.M.s should allow everything B.S." (and it is B.S.!), that is the surest way to destroy a game. Its not only a matter of power, its also a matter of theme. If ANYTHING flies, than you end up with Cyber Knights/Cosmo Knights in your gungry NGR Cyberpunk Style game and Mages in your Coalition games, and weird combinations of superhero powers that are "unbalancing"

See, the concept that there is no game balance in Palladium is a lie and a misconception. Its just "balance" is based more off contribution over "power", just like in comic books or film. Each player should have the ability to contribute just as much as everyone else, regardless of their "power level" as per the Justice League or Avengers. The problem is, a lot of players want to be Superman but don't want the vulnerability to Kryptonite or any sort of emotional attachment/connection to any other person/place/thing. Worse, most of the time the players who want to be superheroes are power-gamers that essentially want power for nothing. "Why would I want to learn magic or be psionic when I can shoot blasts that do more damage and have no P.P.E. or I.S.P. cost? Plus, if its a superpower than no one can take it away and I don't need E-Clips."

This makes for BAD long stories unless that is the theme of the entire game, without vulnerabilities, weaknesses (mechanical or psychological "Being a child, etc.") than super powers CAN allow a character to turn themselves an unassailable wall. In fact, my first experience with super powers was someone pitching a character to me who was invulnerable (+700 M.D.C. and impervious to most forms of attack), and could turn into gas (which essentially made them impervious to the only things that could hurt them). Worse, the character was just "a mutant" who was "born that way" and looked 100% human. In fact, they were attractive. No drawback. No weakness, and an impressive suite of skills since they were a Vagabond. So, this character was essentially going to dominate every aspect of the game and take away a lot from the other players. "If we can get super powers, than **** being a juicer!" said another of my players, and from a mechanical point of view he'd be right. Why would anyone want to play someone with the flaws of a Crazy or a Juicer if you can just slap super-powers on another character?

That is my problem with it. So, I typically do not allow it. That said, in my current game, I gave each of my players a random superpower (rolled at random) from the book of heroes. However, none of them knew that coming into the game, so they're all still learning the origins of these powers, what they mean, and how to use them. So obviously I have NO PROBLEM with superpowers. However, I want them to be important, or interesting, or effect the character, rather than just being an excuse to have power X, Y, and Z at no cost, without bothering to thinking of how that would impact the story or your fellow players.

Anyone who seriously expects me to let ANYONE play WHATEVER they want without regard for the group, my plot, or the game's theme/setting, is frankly being a bit of a short sighted jerk. If I allow something, it is because it is manageable. If I don't, its because its not. If I am playing a HIGH POWER game (my last attempt ended with my players having no interest in being all-powerful, ironically enough), than I typically allow anything, even super-powers. However, I expect it to be done well and people doing DUMB ****, like picking power combinations just to make them completely impervious to all forms of damage in the game should still expect a hard no, and as a Game Master that is my RIGHT. Likewise, I think if MORE G.M.s just said "No" than people would typically have better game experiences.

And before that is refuted, I've had "power gamers" come to me after the fact and thank me. It took a LONG time (about six game sessions; 1 and a half months of regular gaming), for them to "realize" and "level up" enough to see it, but its happened.

[Glistam]

I don't mind superpowers in Rifts, I think it's fitting. It does require G.M. involvement though to ensure the character fitss into the power level of the game.

[Nightmask]

To quote Johnnycat93:
"Lord no,
I think super powers are pure evil and do not let them anywhere near my campaigns, for I fear the consequences would be terrible...
At first, all would appear normal. But then it would begin: the earth would become dry and cracked, the seas would turn the blackest of black, and one would be able to taste the vile char of rot on the air. Then, one day, the sun would simply fail to rise and the world would be cast into an eternal twilight. Creatures born in this age of shadow would be abominations of nature, a product of the twisted existence which spawned them. The separation between planes would be abolished, and one world would leak into the next. From betwixt the very fabric of space and time horrors would arise to plague the dying universe, eldritch aberrations drawn from the inky darkness of mans mind. Then, life as we know it would simply give up. Ley lines would flash an angry red, facilitating the destruction of everything around them. Animals would cease trying to survive and would just starve on the forest floor as the trees burned around them. Psychics would be able to sense the inaudible screams of a dying universe and would be driven mad by the cacophony of voices. From here the End will make its presence known as he will rise up from amongst the chaos, boring his way into the very essence of creation. Those that look upon it will know serenity in its form and will be immolated in its glory. Finally, as the embers of life burn out across the expanse of space, it will utter from its mouth the song that destroys the world..."

For my own experience, I have created walking devastation using super powers in Rifts as a lesson to a GM who didn't understand just how powerful this stuff could get. A few Minor powers and suddenly I have 8 attacks per melee, add in power armor training and that could get bumped to at least ten.
At first level.

So you went out of your way to create a problem for the GM just to perpetuate an anti-superpowers bias? Wrong lesson to be teaching.

[wyrmraker]

To quote Johnnycat93:
"Lord no,
I think super powers are pure evil and do not let them anywhere near my campaigns, for I fear the consequences would be terrible...
At first, all would appear normal. But then it would begin: the earth would become dry and cracked, the seas would turn the blackest of black, and one would be able to taste the vile char of rot on the air. Then, one day, the sun would simply fail to rise and the world would be cast into an eternal twilight. Creatures born in this age of shadow would be abominations of nature, a product of the twisted existence which spawned them. The separation between planes would be abolished, and one world would leak into the next. From betwixt the very fabric of space and time horrors would arise to plague the dying universe, eldritch aberrations drawn from the inky darkness of mans mind. Then, life as we know it would simply give up. Ley lines would flash an angry red, facilitating the destruction of everything around them. Animals would cease trying to survive and would just starve on the forest floor as the trees burned around them. Psychics would be able to sense the inaudible screams of a dying universe and would be driven mad by the cacophony of voices. From here the End will make its presence known as he will rise up from amongst the chaos, boring his way into the very essence of creation. Those that look upon it will know serenity in its form and will be immolated in its glory. Finally, as the embers of life burn out across the expanse of space, it will utter from its mouth the song that destroys the world..."

For my own experience, I have created walking devastation using super powers in Rifts as a lesson to a GM who didn't understand just how powerful this stuff could get. A few Minor powers and suddenly I have 8 attacks per melee, add in power armor training and that could get bumped to at least ten.
At first level.

So you went out of your way to create a problem for the GM just to perpetuate an anti-superpowers bias? Wrong lesson to be teaching.

Actually, no. He said, "Seriously, how bad can super powers really get?" So I showed him precisely how bad it could get when used (im)properly and without restraint. For no use apart from game-breaking abuse.

[Icefalcon]

To me, using super powers in Rifts unrestrained by the GM is like saying I want to play a Glitterboy or X-5000 Devastator pilot in Heroes Unlimited. Just because it can be done does not mean it should be.

[Looonatic]

I built an entire campaign around the adventures of a squad of mercenaries belonging to a larger mercenary group based on a core of super-powered humans and joined by juicers, crazies, d-bees and other superhumans( along with the occasional weirdo). All super-powered player characters had to meet my strict approval. Later, when we began trading off GM duties, I played as an experimental city rat named B-13.

So to answer your question, Yes. I am conducive to super-powers, but the GM has final say as to the playability.

[flatline]

I'm cool with super powers. I treat super powered characters exactly the way I treat all characters:

1. I inspect the characters and tell the player which abilities, if any, I have house rules for just in case that matters to their character concept.
2. If I see the potential for problems (potent power combinations, for example, or, more commonly, insanities), I remind the player than any character that ruins the game for everyone else becomes my NPC.

I think the perception is that super powers encourage poor roleplaying or munchkinism. I find that awarding XP during play for good roleplaying quickly encourages everyone to roleplay better, regardless of character class. And munchkins are, in my experience, fairly easy to turn into regular players.

There are players who seem to only be interested in ruining the game for everyone else. In that case, the problem is the player, not the character. In my experience, these players seem to gravitate towards powerful supernatural creatures or power armor, but they could certainly play Supers to the same effect. The group response to this is always the same: come back when you have a better attitude.

--flatline

[Eclipse]

To quote Johnnycat93:
"Lord no,
I think super powers are pure evil and do not let them anywhere near my campaigns, for I fear the consequences would be terrible...
At first, all would appear normal. But then it would begin: the earth would become dry and cracked, the seas would turn the blackest of black, and one would be able to taste the vile char of rot on the air. Then, one day, the sun would simply fail to rise and the world would be cast into an eternal twilight. Creatures born in this age of shadow would be abominations of nature, a product of the twisted existence which spawned them. The separation between planes would be abolished, and one world would leak into the next. From betwixt the very fabric of space and time horrors would arise to plague the dying universe, eldritch aberrations drawn from the inky darkness of mans mind. Then, life as we know it would simply give up. Ley lines would flash an angry red, facilitating the destruction of everything around them. Animals would cease trying to survive and would just starve on the forest floor as the trees burned around them. Psychics would be able to sense the inaudible screams of a dying universe and would be driven mad by the cacophony of voices. From here the End will make its presence known as he will rise up from amongst the chaos, boring his way into the very essence of creation. Those that look upon it will know serenity in its form and will be immolated in its glory. Finally, as the embers of life burn out across the expanse of space, it will utter from its mouth the song that destroys the world..."

For my own experience, I have created walking devastation using super powers in Rifts as a lesson to a GM who didn't understand just how powerful this stuff could get. A few Minor powers and suddenly I have 8 attacks per melee, add in power armor training and that could get bumped to at least ten.
At first level.

This is my favorite post.
EVER.

Brings this webcomic to mind for me http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10

[Eclipse]

I'd allow almost any kind of official super power, including from H.U. with a direct conversion. But, I'd limit the total number of superpowers per character to 4 slots where a minor power is worth one slot and a major, two slots. It's really only when you start stacking them too much that they become unmanageable.

[kaid]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

[say652]

lets see i cannot think of a logical reason other than a mentally flacid Gm to not allow super powers.

[flatline]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

[Icefalcon]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

[say652]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

[Nightmask]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

It has optional random tables one can use in lieu of simply selecting.

[kaid]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

Yes and the recommendation in there is to use them and not manually pick them which avoids a lot of the issues people have with super powers. Basically you pick your power category and then inside of them some have specific stuff like the physical training stuff but for most you roll to see how many minor/major powers you have and then you roll on the tables for what powers you get from them. The listed option is to let players pick them with GM approval but the default way recommended is the random generation. I tended to use this in nightbane um spawn whatever as well unless somebody had some concept they were just dying to use as the random rolls often helped give players cool ideas on how to combine all the crazy rolls into a coherent character background.

Seriously random rolls and you are highly unlikely to wind up with a champ that is any worse power wise than something like a dragon and probably more head hunters/borg power level. Let people pick them and then either carefully vet what they are choosing or accept the crazyness. But to not use super powers because you let a player manually pick choices that are indeed crazy if they pick that exact combo seems really weird to me.

[kaid]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

It has optional random tables one can use in lieu of simply selecting.

Actually this I am pretty sure the exact opposite of how it is listed. Manually picking the powers is optional and the recommended method is the random tables.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Talking about characters born on rifts earth or the 3G books.
I would say that while not unheard of on rifts earth or on high mystic energy planets in the 3G, they are more rare then any of the "powered" characters. I would rather have super powers being something that the GM mod's a char with during the campaign then to have a char start out with them. This is because there is no "class" specifically associated with them, and make such a class is a non-starter because there would be no OCC skills or OCCR skills because how can you define a class based on a variable like random super powers.

Even the IG in the 2nd 3G book is not all that random because it is limited to a handful of powers. Even the IG are really a character mod, like the Sea Inquisitor from Underseas, if you read the text critically.

[Nightmask]

It really depends on the campaign being played. If you are doing a phase world one why not the super heros are no more crazy than cosmo knights. If you are playing rifts it depends on the overall power level the GM is comfortable with. If they allow GB pilots and things of that nature I would not have much problem with a super hero.

One thing though I would highly recommend is not letting players pick their powers or maybe at most let them pick one. If you let people pick their powers then you better be ready for the crazy stuff you are likely to get. There are a few powers that if comboed together are WAY OP and that guy is just going to dominate your game. If the players actually have to use all the character generation random charts the chance of them getting a character that is totally off the hook is low. There are a lot of useful super powers that really are not that strong especially in a MDC setting and you are likely to wind up with somebody in the headhunter/borg power range.

Let people pick though and you have people with 800+mdc who can fly at the speed of light and can kill glitterboys with one shot.

I disagree with this recommendation.

If they don't want to use the random charts, DO NOT make them use the random charts. Let them choose all their powers and if they choose a power or combination of powers you don't want in your game, tell them so they can go back and make different choices.

--flatline

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

It has optional random tables one can use in lieu of simply selecting.

Actually this I am pretty sure the exact opposite of how it is listed. Manually picking the powers is optional and the recommended method is the random tables.

I was remembering the Power Category section where selecting is listed first rather than rolling. BUT it does note that even the random rolls are 'at the approval and discretion of the GM', so there's no real point to the random rolls if the GM is just going to veto what you got anyway. May as well allow selection and go from there since the end result is the same. Less irritation on the part of the player towards the GM that way, since if he beat the odds for something impressive he wanted it'll be more annoying than simply choosing and being told that a particular power isn't workable.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Actually this I am pretty sure the exact opposite of how it is listed. Manually picking the powers is optional and the recommended method is the random tables.

The the RCB1 say to use the HU MB to define what powers the chars get. Both the HU1r and the HU2 main books says that ether to pick or roll for powers. Nether is preferred over the other.

The RCB1r says to roll or chose the powers, with nether is preferred over the other.

[say652]

in the old rifts corebook it gave you a chart to create supernatural predators and intelligent supernatural creatures, using the charts in the H.U. book i do the same thing to create random mutants. you come up with some pretty cool stuff.

[say652]

but with so much talk over using the CONVERSION BOOK rules you only roll for your number of powers and ARE allowed topick them once you roll to see how many you get.

[Icefalcon]

With wanting to play a full-blown superhero, I would have to have someone make it by the HU rules, and they would roll for random powers instead of picking. I think that cuts down on the power-gaming.

As far as playing a vagabond or other Rifts character with super powers, I would have to say go by Rifts Conversion book. If the revised book says to either pick or roll (again GM's choice) I would have to go with that option.

[Icefalcon]

Question, since I do not own HU and don't intend on getting it. Does the character generation in that system include random power charts as part of the creation process?

It has optional random tables one can use in lieu of simply selecting.

Actually this I am pretty sure the exact opposite of how it is listed. Manually picking the powers is optional and the recommended method is the random tables.

I was remembering the Power Category section where selecting is listed first rather than rolling. BUT it does note that even the random rolls are 'at the approval and discretion of the GM', so there's no real point to the random rolls if the GM is just going to veto what you got anyway. May as well allow selection and go from there since the end result is the same. Less irritation on the part of the player towards the GM that way, since if he beat the odds for something impressive he wanted it'll be more annoying than simply choosing and being told that a particular power isn't workable.

Thanks for the information guys. Considering that I like random power charts to prevent crazy power combos (at least in Nightbane where it is apparently similar) then that is the option I would go with. I wouldn't tend to veto powers that way.

[kaid]

With the random generation method should not be much need/reason to veto powers. Most of the powers are fine by themselves it is the synergy some combos give that turn what is a strong but reasonable power into a god on earth.

[Icefalcon]

With the random generation method should not be much need/reason to veto powers. Most of the powers are fine by themselves it is the synergy some combos give that turn what is a strong but reasonable power into a god on earth.

I agree.

[Zamion138]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Couple things with that....cyborgs look inhuman, have to pay for repairs, weigh a ton, cant pick up chicks, cant retire in obscuriety, have restrictions in major cities, show up on radar and a bunch of the things mechanical and roleplay wise.

PA pilotes have all the same things and are also sdc outside armor. Stand out in a fight and can have their "power" stolen, disabled or impounded due to not pay the rent on the garge you keep it in.

The 800 mdc super can regenerate,blend in with people,not set off dog boys like a dragon in chitown, can wear a suit of armor in a robot. Doesnt need to worry about armor costs, social stigmas, or a whole host of roleplaying points. The player has to go out of their way to leave living enemies that will talk about what they saw to become a target.
The super hero is the juicer+dragon+ human. With all the bennifits and none of the negatives.

[The Beast]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Couple things with that....cyborgs look inhuman, have to pay for repairs, weigh a ton, cant pick up chicks, cant retire in obscuriety, have restrictions in major cities, show up on radar and a bunch of the things mechanical and roleplay wise.

PA pilotes have all the same things and are also sdc outside armor. Stand out in a fight and can have their "power" stolen, disabled or impounded due to not pay the rent on the garge you keep it in.

The 800 mdc super can regenerate,blend in with people,not set off dog boys like a dragon in chitown, can wear a suit of armor in a robot. Doesnt need to worry about armor costs, social stigmas, or a whole host of roleplaying points. The player has to go out of their way to leave living enemies that will talk about what they saw to become a target.
The super hero is the juicer+dragon+ human. With all the bennifits and none of the negatives.

The real issue I am finding with super powers is that the rules from HU and the one from RUE interact so poorly. For example, take Sonic Flight. In HU it gives you a nice dodge bonus, some more health, and a good flight speed. Not bad at all really. However, throw that sucker into rifts and it gets a insane power boost. You see, too my knowledge HU possesses no rule for striking fast moving targets, RUE does. With a flight speed of 670 mph anyone shooting at our hero now has a -15 to strike. This penalty requires no action on the hero's part and he can still dodge if need be. So this power has gone from being simply convenient in HU, to "good luck killing me" in RUE.

That rule was listed in the old version of HU. I don't know yet if it was left out by mistake or on purpose. The target would have to be moving at that speed when attacked though.

EDIT: I'm thinking that when the Modern Weapons section was cut down for room in the current HU book PB left out the rule, planning to write it in the HUGMG. Then, when that book was written/edited someone either removed the rule to make/save space, or it wasn't included because PB thought they included it in the HU book. It's listed in the RMB, RUE, NB, RT, the old BTS book, and N&S.

[Looonatic]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Couple things with that....cyborgs look inhuman, have to pay for repairs, weigh a ton, cant pick up chicks, cant retire in obscuriety, have restrictions in major cities, show up on radar and a bunch of the things mechanical and roleplay wise.

PA pilotes have all the same things and are also sdc outside armor. Stand out in a fight and can have their "power" stolen, disabled or impounded due to not pay the rent on the garge you keep it in.

The 800 mdc super can regenerate,blend in with people,not set off dog boys like a dragon in chitown, can wear a suit of armor in a robot. Doesnt need to worry about armor costs, social stigmas, or a whole host of roleplaying points. The player has to go out of their way to leave living enemies that will talk about what they saw to become a target.
The super hero is the juicer+dragon+ human. With all the bennifits and none of the negatives.

The real issue I am finding with super powers is that the rules from HU and the one from RUE interact so poorly. For example, take Sonic Flight. In HU it gives you a nice dodge bonus, some more health, and a good flight speed. Not bad at all really. However, throw that sucker into rifts and it gets a insane power boost. You see, too my knowledge HU possesses no rule for striking fast moving targets, RUE does. With a flight speed of 670 mph anyone shooting at our hero now has a -15 to strike. This penalty requires no action on the hero's part and he can still dodge if need be. So this power has gone from being simply convenient in HU, to "good luck killing me" in RUE.

It balances out however when you make every ranged attack the flying player makes a wild shot as is appropriate when moving beyond a certain speed.

[Mercdog]

I'll allow them, but generally only for low powered 'Average Joe' O.C.C.s (for example the Merc Soldier, City Rat, Rogue Scholar, Wilderness Scout, or CS Grunt.)

[flatline]

I'll allow them, but generally only for low powered 'Average Joe' O.C.C.s (for example the Merc Soldier, City Rat, Rogue Scholar, Wilderness Scout, or CS Grunt.)

Conversion book says scholars and adventurers, which, traditionally, excludes men at arms like the Merc Soldier and CS Grunt, but really your way isn't deviating enough to make a difference. Of course, if you have a CS Grunt with super powers, he'd better be careful to hide them lest his superiors learn he's not a "true" human.

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

[flatline]

Just to put things in perspective, 800MDC is 4 volleys of 4 of the wimpiest short range missiles listed on GMG p123 so if the Super powered character has a reputation that precedes him, things can still go very badly very quickly.

--flatline

[say652]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

[flatline]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

You've got CB1, he's got CB1-revised. They changed things when they revised the book. I can't tell you the extent of the differences because I've never actually look at CB1-revised.

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

um 800mdc is only possible with one type of hero, the megahero. which to be honest is not much stronger than a full conversion borg or a heavy power armor. i mean there aren't many things a few railgun blasts cannot kill.

Before you start spouting something as fact make sure you know exactly what you are talking about.
Conversion Book 1 revised states that beings with APS powers are MDC while in the altered state.
While in the altered state the characters SDC becomes MDC.

HU2 APS metal- AR 17 SDC 800...

And that is with just one power (I can exceed that through the judicious selection of skills and other powers.)
Care to rephrase that statement about only Mega-heroes hitting that number?

Well Damian in the conversion it state,in english even, that alter physical structure metal provides 600mdc. and AR does not apply in a mdc realm. sooo pffftttt. yo

Better go back and re-read the book then...
page 46 of Conversion Book 1 revised (you know the latest and most valid iteration of the book) Metal - 800, Stone - 600

[Damian Magecraft]

Of course both the original and revised editions of Conversion Book 1 were written prior to the introduction of the PU books...
And every "I want super powers in Rifts" player I have ever had come to my games wants at least one PU power... Which means now if I (the GM) do allow it I have to bench mark if the power grants MDC or not and by how much.
Yet another reason to disallow them.
Not with standing the line in both books (at the start of the Powers conversion notes) that says...
The inclusion of Characters, Super Powers, and any other elements from Heroes Unlimited, or any other game, is left strictly to the Game Master. The Characters do not have to be part of any Rifts campaign.
So there you have it in black in white.
The inclusion of any non-Rifts material is up to the GM not the player.
A GM that exercises that right is not in the wrong, a bad, or Lazy GM.
If any thing that makes him a Good one for actually exercising control over HIS game world.

[Icefalcon]

Of course both the original and revised editions of Conversion Book 1 were written prior to the introduction of the PU books...
And every "I want super powers in Rifts" player I have ever had come to my games wants at least one PU power... Which means now if I (the GM) do allow it I have to bench mark if the power grants MDC or not and by how much.
Yet another reason to disallow them.
Not with standing the line in both books (at the start of the Powers conversion notes) that says...
The inclusion of Characters, Super Powers, and any other elements from Heroes Unlimited, or any other game, is left strictly to the Game Master. The Characters do not have to be part of any Rifts campaign.
So there you have it in black in white.
The inclusion of any non-Rifts material is up to the GM not the player.
A GM that exercises that right is not in the wrong, a bad, or Lazy GM.
If any thing that makes him a Good one for actually exercising control over HIS game world.

And powers are not the only thing that the GM has discretion over. Many times throughout every Palladium books they use the phrase "at the GM's discretion".

[Damian Magecraft]

Of course both the original and revised editions of Conversion Book 1 were written prior to the introduction of the PU books...
And every "I want super powers in Rifts" player I have ever had come to my games wants at least one PU power... Which means now if I (the GM) do allow it I have to bench mark if the power grants MDC or not and by how much.
Yet another reason to disallow them.
Not with standing the line in both books (at the start of the Powers conversion notes) that says...
The inclusion of Characters, Super Powers, and any other elements from Heroes Unlimited, or any other game, is left strictly to the Game Master. The Characters do not have to be part of any Rifts campaign.
So there you have it in black in white.
The inclusion of any non-Rifts material is up to the GM not the player.
A GM that exercises that right is not in the wrong, a bad, or Lazy GM.
If any thing that makes him a Good one for actually exercising control over HIS game world.

And powers are not the only thing that the GM has discretion over. Many times throughout every Palladium books they use the phrase "at the GM's discretion".

of course that now that that part of the discussion is over...
Back to the topic at hand...

Me I allow super powered characters in my games on a case by case basis.
Typically I limit them to my Mutant tribes. (powers breed true in my games)
No random powers and power selection is limited to those select powers available to the specific tribe.

[Icefalcon]

Me I allow super powered characters in my games on a case by case basis.
Typically I limit them to my Mutant tribes. (powers breed true in my games)
No random powers and power selection is limited to those select powers available to the specific tribe.

Do you allow the super option for Vagabonds or the Super Spy (from Mercenaries)?

[Damian Magecraft]

Me I allow super powered characters in my games on a case by case basis.
Typically I limit them to my Mutant tribes. (powers breed true in my games)
No random powers and power selection is limited to those select powers available to the specific tribe.

Do you allow the super option for Vagabonds or the Super Spy (from Mercenaries)?

again typically only if they are one of the "Mutates" (slang term for the mutant tribes).
I have made exceptions however (but only with players that have proven they are responsible and mature enough to not attempt to "break" my setting).

[Mercdog]

I'll allow them, but generally only for low powered 'Average Joe' O.C.C.s (for example the Merc Soldier, City Rat, Rogue Scholar, Wilderness Scout, or CS Grunt.)

Conversion book says scholars and adventurers, which, traditionally, excludes men at arms like the Merc Soldier and CS Grunt, but really your way isn't deviating enough to make a difference. Of course, if you have a CS Grunt with super powers, he'd better be careful to hide them lest his superiors learn he's not a "true" human.

--flatline

The CS in my games is a little bit different than the canon version. In my games the CS has a small 'Super' division under the auspices of Psi-Battallion. It's members account for less than an additional 10% the size of the Psi-Battallion. The CS already uses mutants in the form of psychics, psi-stalkers, and Dog Boys, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch to include a few with powers (Typically low end, one or two Minor powers or one Major). The laws governing them are a lot like the laws covering Psionics. And while they're still treated no better than second class citizens, some powered mutants are given the chance to serve the CS in the Military, or in the Net-Set to a lesser degree.

Note: While I allow powered human mutants to serve in the CS, there are NO programs (except perhaps an unknown and illegal experiment or two at Lone Star) to develope soldiers with super powers. It's one thing to utilize those that were unfortunate enough (from the CS perspective) to be born mutants, it's quite another to destroy someone's humanity trying to instill 'inhuman' abilities.

[Galroth]

I consider Super Powers totally acceptable, if playing in a high powered campaign. Pretty much any other time there is a good chance they will break the game.