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I am a new G.M. so excuse my lack of knowledge.

Is it unfair for me to require that some R.C.C.'s not have an O.C.C.? (Like the Sea Titan) I feel that an R.C.C. like Sea Titan is made to not have an occupational class.

Am I wrong for this? Am I breaking the rules? What are other people doing?

Dinne wrote:I am a new G.M. so excuse my lack of knowledge.

Is it unfair for me to require that some R.C.C.'s not have an O.C.C.? (Like the Sea Titan) I feel that an R.C.C. like Sea Titan is made to not have an occupational class.

Am I wrong for this? Am I breaking the rules? What are other people doing?

Technically, that would be the correct way to do it. Unfortunately Palladium Books has occasionally listed races as a RCC and then allowed them to take an OCC. In most cases you should be good with your ruling.

Dinne wrote:I am a new G.M. so excuse my lack of knowledge.

Is it unfair for me to require that some R.C.C.'s not have an O.C.C.? (Like the Sea Titan) I feel that an R.C.C. like Sea Titan is made to not have an occupational class.

Am I wrong for this? Am I breaking the rules? What are other people doing?

RCC: Racial Char Class=Definition of the words used: Class of the Race.

A race-class combos are the bread and butter of making a char, because you the player has to pick the race of the char and pick the class of the char.

However, there are some races where they have to take the Race's RCC. Dragons are a good example of this. there are others about if you want to use some skull sweat to look for them.

There aren't many races that are bound to a single class (and Sea Titans aren't one of them), although some have race-restricted classes associated with them. Palladium's just done a very poor job of handling such things so there's much confusion in what was meant when and if it means the same thing now. In many if not most cases when you see an RCC what you have is a failure to separate race from OCC (a tactic to simplify things that just complicated instead) and are presented with what's either typical for the race to learn or typical of the NPC you're most likely to see. There needs to be a REALLY good explanation for why a particular race was restricted as you suggest, like dragons since they carry racial memories which effectively ensure that they're born inside that particular RCC rather than being able to be brought up in something else.

Thank all of you for the responses. The sessions is today where I'm adding that new character.

ryan.

Yes, palladium has done a poor job of defining RCC in particular. RCC is supposed to be (R)acial (C)haracter (C)lass, which is to say every member of that race (really species) has the same class. Which I find hard to swallow unless the species as a whole has a true "hive mind" where everyone would be the same and know exactly what all the others know.

I have found that the RCC works great if you just need a run of the mill NPC from a particular species it gives you a quick generic class for the NPC.

When I GM I have always allowed any race (species) to choose an appropriate OCC if the RCC wasn't appealing to the player. Provided they could provide a reasonable back story or reason that their character would have access to that OCC training.

As mentioned above the main exception is the dragon hatchling. If they are made by the book they are too young to have had the training of any OCC. That way they always start as their own RCC and if at some point in the future they want to settle down and learn an OCC I would allow that although they do have to find a teacher/university and take year/s of game time sitting on the shelf learning the OCC.

42dragon wrote:Yes, palladium has done a poor job of defining RCC in particular. RCC is supposed to be (R)acial (C)haracter (C)lass, which is to say every member of that race (really species) has the same class. Which I find hard to swallow unless the species as a whole has a true "hive mind" where everyone would be the same and know exactly what all the others know.

You have it kind of backwards. It means every member of that class is of that race, not necessarily that every member of that race is of a class. For example, (from PF) is the Danzi Shaman. A Danzi can be other OCCs, but other races cannot be a Danzi Shaman. Danzi is a race, Danzi Shaman is an RCC.

Then, you have stuff like the trebull (I think that's how its spelled. It's in skraypers). It's an RCC because the entire race IS that class. They are all basically a heavy infantryman. This is more like you were talking. But, there is no reason for a hive mind. The race IS the class. In this example, they were bred and engineered that way.IIRC, machine people are the same way.

Those are the two basic types of RCC.

Goliath Strongarm wrote:
You have it kind of backwards. It means every member of that class is of that race, not necessarily that every member of that race is of a class. For example, (from PF) is the Danzi Shaman. A Danzi can be other OCCs, but other races cannot be a Danzi Shaman. Danzi is a race, Danzi Shaman is an RCC.

Then, you have stuff like the trebull (I think that's how its spelled. It's in skraypers). It's an RCC because the entire race IS that class. They are all basically a heavy infantryman. This is more like you were talking. But, there is no reason for a hive mind. The race IS the class. In this example, they were bred and engineered that way.IIRC, machine people are the same way.

Those are the two basic types of RCC.

Yep....

However, PB has messed up in the past by labeling the 1st as the 2nd. Which is one of the reasons why things are up when talking about RCC's.

GS and Drew I agree with you completely. However, I like to take werebeasts for example. In any of the official Rift's books they are mentioned, their only option is an RCC that is basically a supernatural predator. There is no mention of being able to take a different OCC. Which works great for a generic run of the mill were-predator NPC.

However they have near human like intelligence and can be very crafty. Why couldn't they train as an OCC instead of a basic predator RCC if they chose to seek out the training or was brought up away from their pack? Then the Rifter's (4 & 5 I think) have Nightbane were-creatures that now have a few available OCC's. This is optional material which while not canon is accepted in many circles, which shows that there can be some variation from the RCC. Including OCC/s that expands on thier natural magic and psionic powers.

I like to use this as evidence that while the (conversion books in particular) may only show an RCC, that it isn't always the only option. With a decent back story or a solid reason I allow most races to be an OCC that they could qualify for.

I understand that only beings of a certain race are typically allowed as thier racial RCC. Couldn't a curious group of were-panthers adopt a human toddler they found lost in the jungles, and decide to raise it? Wouldn't this cause the human to grow up to be the equivallent of the were-creature supernatural predator RCC (skills and training wise)? Of course they wouldn't get the natural abilities magic, sense of smell and hearing, invulnerability, ect.. Of course sometimes racial characteristics make this impossible for other races.

Just to pose a question from GS example; what if the Trebull was being engineered and bred but stolen, captured, lost before the training could be completed. Could it be possible to train them into something else? Probably not a magic user, but a headhunter or military specialist type, maybe a blacksmith perhaps instead of just an infantry grunt? (I am not familar with them off the top of my head) But with a decent back story I might allow even something like this to be a different appropriate OCC.

42dragon You mention one of the things that make the RCC label almost useless. The intentional mislabeling in rifts of "Races" (and [pre-RUE] "PCC's") as RCC's.
(Post RUE PCC's are still mislabeled, but as OCC's.)

If you note that Goliath Strongarm said what the term RCC Should mean and be used for.

Were-people are one of the many races that are mislabeled as RCC's.

Exactly Drew, the RCC is an almost completely useless and limiting label.
A more appropriate designation within the race description could be along the following lines:

While (race XXXXX) can learn to be any OCC they qualify for, they are typically one of the following racial OCC/s that are NEVER taught to members of another race. (or perhaps cannot be learned by any non-aquatic life forms for example)

This would allow options while providing some guidance and rules for using the new OCC. Perhaps the first letter O, R, P should just be removed altogether and it should just be CC (Character Class).

42dragon wrote:snip...

This would allow options while providing some guidance and rules for using the new OCC. Perhaps the first letter O, R, P should just be removed altogether and it should just be CC (Character Class).

This option would be better then calling a Psychic Char Class a "Job", or a race a "Class."

I am currently writing up a psychic char type and I went with writing it up as a power cat. to avoid the rifters out there that would be yelling "That not a PCC, it is an OCC." because of the stupid labeling decision that continued the mislabeling of PCC's in rifts.
(Rifters: people who exclusively play rifts.)

Thank all of you for the discussion. I have a very thorough view of R.C.C./O.C.C.