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... people would want to keep their character sheet between games.

Purpose of thread: New (and old) GMs (all games, not only PB) sometimes will go some time thinking a way and encounter later someone or some group that does things differently. maybe some of us can add things to help GMs and players know 'other' ways of thinking they may encounter.

No need for rule opinions or answering 'that is right/wrong'. Just some good stories and examples.

My example comes from being in a small town (200 people) with 4 of us learning to game. I kept everyone's sheet that I GMed and my brother kept those he GMed. We just thought it logical as all the game stuff was together, the GM could plan adventures accordingly, and dead characters could have a few changes and be templates for NPCs. When I went to college I played a nice game where characters all fit on an index card. It was in a gaming club (Purdue Fantasy Club shout out) where there was anywhere from 20-40 people each Saturday. The head GM had an index box where everyone kept their card (to cut down on cheating/altering of card between adventures). Dead characters also could be used as NPCs as above.

I kept doing this in my home games until I visited Germany and a guy, upon my return to the USA, refused to give it back. I was shocked, but he told stories of GMs losing his character, altering it, etc. and he was left with nothing. As I was introduced to more gamer/groups I found others like this.

Trust and character security seemed the main issue in both cases.

... dice rolled on the floor cause those living under you to go crazy.

When I switched from Purdue to Mizzou (in state tuition is much cheaper), I met 2 guys who were into gaming. We started to game in their room each day from like 6pm-12am. After 2 months the two girls living below us (coed dorms had a different sex on each floor that year) pounded on the door at 11:30pm with crazy wild-eyed looked wondering what the hell we were doing each night (they concluded we must be bouncing rubber balls for 4-6 hours). With sheepish faces, we admitted to 'Role-playing' and -not- *that* type of role-playing, and it was dice. We always rolled in box lids that were set on clothes/towels/books after that.

Ive always kept my own player characters. My group takes theirs home unless they are a bit lazy. They like to look them over, plan their next OCC or skill selection, level them up away from game time etc.

I trust them not to fudge anything and I usually have a good memory for their stats/skills etc., at least enough to NPC them if they cant make next weeks session.

I have a book of my characters.

I have done things both ways. Sometimes I keep the sheets sometimes the players are responsible for them. As a player, I prefer to keep my sheets so that before I arrive at the game I can review the character to "re-familiarize" myself with the character (because sometimes it is a month or so before I play that character again) or so that in the time between games I can review which direction I would like to take the character (classes, abilities or other things). As a GM, I like players to have access to their characters for the same reason. One of the few times I keep sheets is when I need to plan the game a bit more as the campaign develops. Sometimes I keep them so people don't lose them. I don't see any problems with doing things either way until either the player or the GM (have seen both) start to change things on the sheet in their favor.

One thing I have seen differently is how a GM prepares for his game. Some have tons of prep work with reams of paper for story and NPC's added in with a few dozen homemade maps (which is my style). Others barely do any prep work which might include some NPC's at most and then come up with the rest as things unfold at the table (a style I used to use).

A good example of this is that a friend of mine ran a D&D game that spanned three years in real life. Before he even started running the game, he spent months writing the story, making tons of NPC's (villians, allies, contacts and even regular people), figuring out the political arena, designing the world, making maps and even considering dimensional/time travel elements built into the story. Even twenty years later, we still talk about how awesome the game was and still ask about things that were a mystery then and still are now.

On the other hand, I ran a Rifts game that was totally by the seat of my pants. I had nothing prepared for this game other than a general outline of what I wanted to happen in the story and a few magical artifacts (what they did, their location, and who had them). Other than that, I ran every thing on the fly. Nothing was planned. Everything was spontaneous. This game also lasted three years in real life (with games sometimes happening two or three times a week) and is also recalled fondly by the players. Another thing both games had in common was that there was more than 10 players (his had 12, mine had 14 base players with a maximum of 25 at one point).

In the intervening years since those games, I have changed my style of running to something closer to my friends with the massive preparation. The reason why? I find games prepped ahead of time to have more substance and tend to produce more calculated effects (such as fear over an archvillian) than one run by the seat of the pants (which tends to have more humor based memories).

I'll add an edit. For a long time we do GM gets 'official' sheet and anyone can make a copy to take home to plan out future stuff. I've never had a problem making a copy. In our current D&D 4th we use the old character creator software and the players keep a file of their character and I have another as the GM. So everyone 'wins'

In my group, players always held onto character sheets of their own. Some GMs, myself included, would ask for copies to look over between adventures (for planning and, occassionaly, to audit for mistakes). I've had players who I have had to insist on handing over sheets for, mainly because said player would constantly forget the sheet.

A character sheet is, in my opinion, property of the player. It's his or her little record of the game, and the persona they ran in that game. The best possible option is to just scan the sheet for the GM, or if it's a digital sheet (common nowadays in my group) to share it with the GM. The basic exception I see to this is if there is a boxed set involved. For some reason, if there's a box, players seem to like putting the sheets into the box. Maybe it's some kind of holdover from the board games of youth?

arthurfallz wrote:In my group, players always held onto character sheets of their own. Some GMs, myself included, would ask for copies to look over between adventures (for planning and, occassionaly, to audit for mistakes). I've had players who I have had to insist on handing over sheets for, mainly because said player would constantly forget the sheet.

A character sheet is, in my opinion, property of the player. It's his or her little record of the game, and the persona they ran in that game. The best possible option is to just scan the sheet for the GM, or if it's a digital sheet (common nowadays in my group) to share it with the GM. The basic exception I see to this is if there is a boxed set involved. For some reason, if there's a box, players seem to like putting the sheets into the box. Maybe it's some kind of holdover from the board games of youth?

hehe I like that. in my above example, the character index box. Characters were in alphabetical order and when you pulled yours out it was like some magical moment (even if you had a copy like i did). As the GM, I Have a binder that has plastic see through sleeves that everyone puts their sheet(s) in. I pull the sleeves out and hand them out and everyone tidies them back up at the end of the game and puts them in the bonder. maybe that makes it box-like enough

In any serious campaign, my character "sheet" is probably one or two dozen pages with everything from equipment to power descriptions to character history to character opinions of NPCs we've met so far. I usually keep it in a folder or binder.

I do not expect the GM to keep track of all that for me, although I would not object if he wanted to keep it for some reason. In that case, I'd probably keep a copy for myself (I like to ponder things between sessions and having my character makes that easier).

--flatline

The elemental plane of fire must be freezing over because *sigh* I'm agreeing with Flatline, and am usually the same way as a player.

As a GM, I'm not going to keep track of it all for players, but I do ask for copies, for planning stuff out. I like to make sure the PCs have the capabilities to deal with stuff BEFORE they are in the situation. Also, I like to compare player notesand treasure to my list. Yes, I've caught "accidents" on player lists.

Ive had a few gm's loose my char sheet.
I know it was an accident, i know its somewhere in their car or house.
But since i didnt have a back up sheet i had to reroll him as the gm and i couldnt remember all his stats. Peiced togeather my gear to the best i could, skills and what not.
All my notes were on the back of the paper by the way.
Gm couldnt remember total income and expenditure so he was cool and just gave me the same amount of cedits as the highest found on any ones sheet, all my ammo was refilled and and xp was i know for a fact higher than the original but still.
My notes and background were gone and my stats were diffrent.
Similair things have happened a few times like loosing my robot's stat sheet and once my spells list.
I perfer to keep my own now.

Zamion138 wrote:Ive had a few gm's loose my char sheet.
I know it was an accident, i know its somewhere in their car or house.
But since i didnt have a back up sheet i had to reroll him as the gm and i couldnt remember all his stats. Peiced togeather my gear to the best i could, skills and what not.
All my notes were on the back of the paper by the way.
Gm couldnt remember total income and expenditure so he was cool and just gave me the same amount of cedits as the highest found on any ones sheet, all my ammo was refilled and and xp was i know for a fact higher than the original but still.
My notes and background were gone and my stats were diffrent.
Similair things have happened a few times like loosing my robot's stat sheet and once my spells list.
I perfer to keep my own now.

The reverse of this is another reason that, as a GM, I try to keep copies. More than once had a player who "lost" their character sheet, but "pretty much remembered" how it was. Then the original was found.. and OH THE DIFFERENCES!

Or the wonderful player who was unhappy with how his character had received a curse (his own fault), and "lost" his character, so rolled up a new one. Pissed him off royally when there were magic items found that were designed for his "old" character and "OMG! Guess What?! I found him! He was just folded up inside this book!" Then I wouldn't allow that character back in.

Between those types of players (thankfully not a majority, but still enough of them out there that those aren't rare types), and the "I need to know character abilities and limits" when working on the next adventure, I request copies. And I've had, more than once, players that have learned WHY (in various systems).

I've found it rare people want to leave their sheet with me, I do make the offer (mostly to help with those forgetful players), generally only 15-20% of players wish to leave it with someone else.

When I first started playing every group I played with kept their own. The last in-person group I was with we started keeping the sheets of the game we were running. This way we could play the PCs of those who couldn't make it and keep some continuity.

The Beast wrote:When I first started playing every group I played with kept their own. The last in-person group I was with we started keeping the sheets of the game we were running. This way we could play the PCs of those who couldn't make it and keep some continuity.

See i have no problem with the gm keeping a copy, or taking cell phone pic o it so they can refrence. But the lost char has happened to many times to me so....hard original stays with me if im the player.

When i gm i offer to let people leave them in a shoebox in my kitchen but only one girl ever does....i must have 15 of her chars from dead games in there.
And my own.

I always ask for a copy of the character sheet, but the player keeps the original, for several reasons. One, so I can better plan adventures around the characters abilities. Two, so I can make sure that the characters weren't nerfed in some manner (I have rarely uncovered cheating - after all, I talk with the players before hand and let them know what is and isn't allowed). Third, and most importantly, when game time rolls around almost inevitably someone has forgotten and left their character sheets at home; but with me having a copy, we can still game! Yes, it is most likely not completely up to date, but at least we can still have game (and the player gets a much gentler reminder to always bring their gaming stuff!).

I keep the char sheet for my chars.

I've never let a GM hold on to them.

Cause the one time I let a friend hold onto the game set his mother threw the whole lot away.

As a GM i keep the player's character sheets, only because i had a couple players fudge their sheets between games....i have two folders in my game bag, one for Rifts and one for Dead Reign

I am used to that the GM keeps all the character sheets and data for the campaign, but that the GM also offers a copy for people to take home and use for planning between sessions. But the original character sheet is always in the hands of the GM.

When I first started playing I always held onto my own character sheet, the GM never even asked for a copy, he just asked to see them every once in a while and he would make notes.

As a GM I give players the option, I can hold it or they can. Hell I've had players leave their character sheets at my place along with a duffel bag filled with their books and dice.

I'm ok with that, some of my players used to come to the game straight from work and this made it easier on them instead of transporting the stuff all around.

They trust me not to change things on their sheets and if they take their sheets home I give them the same level of trust. I mean, it's a game, if they really feel the need to cheat and change their numbers that's pretty sad.

Nice to see someone from Mizzou on here. (I work for the Hospital.) Now that there's high megapixel cameras out there (and flatbed scanners) GM should make a copy of the sheets, and let player keep the originals.

I've always played that the player holds the character. After character sheets were forgotten a couple of times, the GM insisted on a copy being emailed to him, and one time he asked for copies to deconstruct them. That was ugly. No deliberate cheating but most people had been lax about reading the rules and about the house rules and their characters were nerfed. (I lucked out, I was actually missing a couple of small bonuses and the GM said my base rolls must have been crappy.)

For me, I let the players hold onto their sheets. I'm not seeing anything yet to make me feel like I need to deconstruct characters, nor have my players forgotten their character sheets. I figure its their property, and I know I'd not be happy if I had to give up my book of characters.

I have always kept my character sheets. In our campaigns if you forgot your character sheet you had two choices. 1) roll up a new character from level 2 no experience points (all characters started this way) or 2 ) run a henchmen or an npc no body for the night. Our GM (and something I have done ever since) had a paper with a notes on every PC In the game, right down to the primary weapon in hand. the one time I did let the GM take my character sheet, he lost them. So after that, I never let anyone take them. I never had an issue letting a GM copy them. but I always liked to keep a character journal and a couple of characters had to be put into binders after several years of campaigning. Now most my characters are digital and I am more than willing to let a GM have a copy.

As a GM I keep a copy of the characters, on my laptop. I will either scan it in or have the player shoot me a copy before the game starts. I like to prep for campaigns with characters in mind. So if I have a copy it makes it easier. But I do love having the players doing all the leveling up stuff at home or where ever so it does not have to eat up valuable game time.
And I still to this day, keep note sheet on each of the players so I can keep track of them during the game.

Most players take theirs home. Some, knowing they are scatter-brained or might be coming straight from work, left it w/ the GM.

For those more enterprising, a copy updated w/in 2 levels, was left w/ GM for "we need the PC but player can't make it" times as well as the forgot-its.

Luckily, there's enough character types I've played over the years, I can usually pull something out of my "Big Book of Peeps" which are my PCs, NPCs, and half my fellow-player PCs, that will fill in well enough. and I can up/down level skills/hp/PPE well enough.

As a GM, I make 2 copies of the character sheet for me, and the player keeps one.
Copy 1 is the open copy. This is updated as needed, and the player can copy this if they lose theres
Copy 2 is MY copy, with stuff that the player may not now (that they are the rightful heir to fnordia, that they have indead caught lycanthropy, or that the sword they found is really possessed

Rappanui wrote:I tend to look at a player's sheet. Copy it over to a format i like, toss their original. Use my version as master and have them update it.

What format do you use?

I don't care either way. I usually keep them just because I'm reliable and other people are not. But if someone wanted theirs for some reason, that's fine, it's their character. Just don't come crying to me if you decide to roll a joint with it or use it as toilet paper or something stupid.

As a GM I've never had to worry about players taking their character sheets home because they are all left at my house where the books are. When new players came to join our games they were genuinely shocked to find out that we were going to let them take their characters with home with them. Once they found out they could take them they didn't and left them at my house anyways.

I know the relative power levels of each character that I GM for and try to make enemies that would kill the group by a small margin what saves them is clever use of skills, spells, tactics and diplomacy.

If they did cheat I would be disappointed in them but I wouldn't really care for most things they'd cheat about. Oh they want to be a warrior with major psionics but failed their roll Idc. They popped up their PP up 2 points for a bonus strike parry or dodge again I don't care.

Do I want them to do that? Of course not, but if that is what it takes for them to be happy while role-playing than whatever floats your boat. I just hope I don't find out for my trust in general of them would lessen.

As a player I don't care if someone watches me roll up a character to make sure I don't cheat and then keep the original and/or updated copy, but I need one as well for future planning and refreshing as other people in this forum has said.

ZorValachan wrote:No need for rule opinions or answering 'that is right/wrong'.
*snip*
Trust and character security seemed the main issue in both cases.

Kind of breaking your own rule there.

Everyone I've known keeps their own sheets. It's their property, as much as they keep their own dice at the end of the game session rather than handing their dice over to the GM.