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We typically rolled, but every GM had his way to make sure that you started with enough PPE to be worth while.

One GM just gave you the max possible for PPE and/or ISP. Perhaps not unrelated, characters tended to die quickly in his campaigns, so he had lots of short cuts to make character generation as fast as possible.

One GM made sure you got at least average (e.g. if you rolled less than 50 on 2d4x10, he'd bump you up to 50).

One GM simply adjusted your number up if he thought it was too low for the character concept. He would sometimes adjust a character's max PPE or ISP mid game if he felt the character was too constrained.

Personally, I want players to feel as empowered as possible, so if I were to GM a group, I'd probably just give them max at character generation and at every level up.

--flatline

RGG wrote:In the beginning a weak wizard really won't use much magic for fear of the CS detecting them. It tends to be a really big issue since players often meet in cities at some point...or the burbs as the case may be.

The vast majority of Rifts Earth is beyond the reach of the CS and even most of North America is outside CS territory. Unless you have a specific desire to campaign in CS territory with magic users in your party, it might be a good idea to move the campaign someplace where you don't have to worry about detection by the CS.

--flatline

It might be fun to just list the dice, and reroll the PPE and HP every day to account for fluctuating levels of health.

Roll for the PPE.
Then only add in PE if the text says to.
Racial PPE is only added to the class PPE when there is specific text, in the racial text, that says to.

I generally max level one. But that goes for everything, including hp, sdc, etc. Keep in mind. I'm a fantasy guy. But, doing that helped show the difference between fighters and mages. And helps mages be casters longer, not the guy who keeps using weapons instead of spells.

Goliath Strongarm wrote:I generally max level one. But that goes for everything, including hp, sdc, etc. Keep in mind. I'm a fantasy guy. But, doing that helped show the difference between fighters and mages. And helps mages be casters longer, not the guy who keeps using weapons instead of spells.

This Is what I tend to do for my players as well...

It's only fine if you also have Man-At-Arms auto max their SDC / HP at the start as well.

Cinos wrote:It's only fine if you also have Man-At-Arms auto max their SDC / HP at the start as well.

I do. I run a fairly deadly combat...

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Cinos wrote:It's only fine if you also have Man-At-Arms auto max their SDC / HP at the start as well.

I do. I run a fairly deadly combat...

That stuff is max for everyone at first. Deadly combat or not (mine usually can be, if players don't think) it helps stress the difference and keep people in their roles.

Roll, but usally allow rerolls of all 1s and 2s, if its a d6 or 1s if a d4.
Also in the case of the temporal mage we give them the ppe pool of the rue llw.

My last sit-down group rolled for the base amount and then added the maximum amount in afterwards.

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal? Example, let's say someone wants to roll up a LLW, do folks generally have that person roll 3D6 x10 + 20 or simply say, "Your LLW starts with 200 PPE and don't forget to add your PE to it?" Is that considered munchkin to do or is it a case by case situation depending on the make up of the group? I look at this and I think to myself, "Is this giving away too much for the class at level 1? Or should it be acceptable because the system is prepared for the fact that 200 PPE+ is possible due to the mechanics of the class itself at 1st level?"

It leaves me somewhat torn due to the sometimes unfortunate vagaries of die rolls at times. Thoughts?

I've never herad of anyone simply maxing players PPE rolls, there's little need for it. I wouldn't say it's strictly too much, but I can also say I think it's better not to. Why would you want to give it to them anyway?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal? Example, let's say someone wants to roll up a LLW, do folks generally have that person roll 3D6 x10 + 20 or simply say, "Your LLW starts with 200 PPE and don't forget to add your PE to it?" Is that considered munchkin to do or is it a case by case situation depending on the make up of the group? I look at this and I think to myself, "Is this giving away too much for the class at level 1? Or should it be acceptable because the system is prepared for the fact that 200 PPE+ is possible due to the mechanics of the class itself at 1st level?"

It leaves me somewhat torn due to the sometimes unfortunate vagaries of die rolls at times. Thoughts?

I've never herad of anyone simply maxing players PPE rolls, there's little need for it. I wouldn't say it's strictly too much, but I can also say I think it's better not to. Why would you want to give it to them anyway?

When I was a GM (it happened rarely), I had everyone just take max rolls for PPE, ISP, SDC, starting funds, etc.

Worked just fine.

About a third of the GMs I've played with had similar policies.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal? Example, let's say someone wants to roll up a LLW, do folks generally have that person roll 3D6 x10 + 20 or simply say, "Your LLW starts with 200 PPE and don't forget to add your PE to it?" Is that considered munchkin to do or is it a case by case situation depending on the make up of the group? I look at this and I think to myself, "Is this giving away too much for the class at level 1? Or should it be acceptable because the system is prepared for the fact that 200 PPE+ is possible due to the mechanics of the class itself at 1st level?"

It leaves me somewhat torn due to the sometimes unfortunate vagaries of die rolls at times. Thoughts?

I've never herad of anyone simply maxing players PPE rolls, there's little need for it. I wouldn't say it's strictly too much, but I can also say I think it's better not to. Why would you want to give it to them anyway?

When I was a GM (it happened rarely), I had everyone just take max rolls for PPE, ISP, SDC, starting funds, etc.

Worked just fine.

About a third of the GMs I've played with had similar policies.

--flatline

As I said, I didn't say I think it wouldn't work, I just said I don't see much of a reason to

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

flatline wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal? Example, let's say someone wants to roll up a LLW, do folks generally have that person roll 3D6 x10 + 20 or simply say, "Your LLW starts with 200 PPE and don't forget to add your PE to it?" Is that considered munchkin to do or is it a case by case situation depending on the make up of the group? I look at this and I think to myself, "Is this giving away too much for the class at level 1? Or should it be acceptable because the system is prepared for the fact that 200 PPE+ is possible due to the mechanics of the class itself at 1st level?"


It leaves me somewhat torn due to the sometimes unfortunate vagaries of die rolls at times. Thoughts?

I've never herad of anyone simply maxing players PPE rolls, there's little need for it. I wouldn't say it's strictly too much, but I can also say I think it's better not to. Why would you want to give it to them anyway?

When I was a GM (it happened rarely), I had everyone just take max rolls for PPE, ISP, SDC, starting funds, etc.

Worked just fine.

About a third of the GMs I've played with had similar policies.

--flatline

As I said, I didn't say I think it wouldn't work, I just said I don't see much of a reason to

Works really well to help stress an OCCs role. It gives the mage PPE to be a mage, the fighter SDC and HP to be a fighter, and the psychic the ISP to be a psychic.

Goliath Strongarm wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

flatline wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal? Example, let's say someone wants to roll up a LLW, do folks generally have that person roll 3D6 x10 + 20 or simply say, "Your LLW starts with 200 PPE and don't forget to add your PE to it?" Is that considered munchkin to do or is it a case by case situation depending on the make up of the group? I look at this and I think to myself, "Is this giving away too much for the class at level 1? Or should it be acceptable because the system is prepared for the fact that 200 PPE+ is possible due to the mechanics of the class itself at 1st level?"


It leaves me somewhat torn due to the sometimes unfortunate vagaries of die rolls at times. Thoughts?

I've never herad of anyone simply maxing players PPE rolls, there's little need for it. I wouldn't say it's strictly too much, but I can also say I think it's better not to. Why would you want to give it to them anyway?

When I was a GM (it happened rarely), I had everyone just take max rolls for PPE, ISP, SDC, starting funds, etc.

Worked just fine.

About a third of the GMs I've played with had similar policies.

--flatline

As I said, I didn't say I think it wouldn't work, I just said I don't see much of a reason to

Works really well to help stress an OCCs role. It gives the mage PPE to be a mage, the fighter SDC and HP to be a fighter, and the psychic the ISP to be a psychic.

My main reason for doing it was because it made character generation that much faster in a way that none of the players objected to.

--flatline

My current GM has us assume a roll of one short of max on everything except the attributes. Then again, that game is also on Google+.

VTDupre wrote:I can see it to Min/Max specific roles.
But then you'd think they'd get max on all roles period after that, like strike, etc.

I don't see how that follows. House rules that apply to character generation need not have any bearing on actual play.

Taking away ANY roll reduces the randomness, at which point things start looking like arbitrary GM rulings.

Maximizing randomness is not (generally) the goal. Having a good time in an intellectually and social stimulating fashion is. As such, we want randomness that increases our enjoyment of the game. All other randomness is pointless and detrimental and a time sink that reduces our enjoyment of the game.

May as well give them max everything else too.

If you find that increases their (and your) enjoyment of the game, then absolutely. I maximize PPE, ISP, starting funds, and anything else that empowers the player and speeds up character creation.

But then CS Grunt #1 & #2 may as well be clones.

I find that the fewer numbers there are on the character sheet to fixate on, the better things go. Some of my NPCs have a name, a quick description, and that's it. If the character's stats are more important than the character's, err, character, then you're not really role playing, are you?

--flatline

I'm going to sound almost like an echo of Flatline...

VTDupre wrote:But then you'd think they'd get max on all roles period after that, like strike, etc.

How is this even remotely the same? How does PPE/ISP/HP/SDC follow on to combat and the actual gaming? Completely different.

VTDupre wrote:Taking away ANY roll reduces the randomness, at which point things start looking like arbitrary GM rulings.

Really? When it applies to everyone across the board? When it's stated out, ahead of time, and everyone knows the house rule? It looks arbitrary? We must have a different dictionary.

VTDupre wrote:May as well give them max everything else too.

Obviously, at this point, you're attempting to be insulting and rude instead of having actually read the posts. The point is to help stress the differences in the classes. Give the mage PPE to use, give the psychic more ISP. Give the fighter-types more SDC/HP/MDC, etc. Not to make everyone cookie cutter.

VTDupre wrote:But then CS Grunt #1 & #2 may as well be clones.

For grunt NPCs that are going to shoot, fight, and die? Or to be nameless, faceless encounters? They just might be. Heck, that might be a storyline- the CS is experimenting with cloning techniques! That's how they got so many extra troops so quick! Trained ones at that! Honestly though, I generally have ~about~ two of generic type NPCs to use. I really don't need a bunch. If my group encounters a squad of six guards, unless I'm sloppy about it, they won't know if they're identical or not. So if all 6 are the same, or if there are two different sets of numbers- it's ok. They don't all need to be different.

Abaddon wrote:Since Palladium doesn't revolve around a delicate balancing act between the various classes like other types of games, let me ask this:

Is it considered in good form to give the maximum starting base PPE to a magic O.C.C. and then have the per level PPE dice rolled as normal?

Whatever is most appropriate to the power scale, play styles, and GM style of those involved. Opening redundancy hehe.

If going for an ideal intermediate power scale campaign could consider maxing out all but one of the dice involved and then just having to roll the last die.

In a generally non-existent amount of starting PPE (as an example):

5D6x10+20+PE PPE this would become: 4Dx10 = 240 with 1 die left to actually roll; becoming 1D6x10+20+240+PE = 1D6x10+260+PE. The end result being and upper limits PPE character while still having a genuine random range (270 to 320 plus PE). Thus having a solid and very playable character while still including the fundamentals of having a random PPE range.

This too could be done for the per level amount: 5D6 PPE / level becoming 1D6+24 PPE per level. Again promoting the most ideally functionally playable character while still having a random portion.

This is a little more interesting when dealing with single die PPE or ISP amounts, only has 1D4x10 or 1D6x10 starting PPE or ISP.
Its either:
(1) Not supposed to have much or need much PPE or ISP so just roll it random. Such as a Cyber-Knight.
(2) It needs waaay more PPE or ISP to function properly even at maximum and this powers the character's primary abilities.
...[A] Extreme leniency: Give them maximum cause even at maximum it would be tough to survive.
...[B] Variant leniency: 1D10+30 instead of 1D4x10; 2D10+40 for 1D6x10.
...[C] Add-Ons: These low ones also tend to benefit the most from the various Add-Ons (next section).

Add-Ons:
- For PPE affected by PE attribute can also attempt to acquire as many PE increasing effects as possible (skills, special training, genespliced attributes, etc).
- Also if possible could also gain up to 6 magic tattoos (if human, etc + various restrictions) mainly for the corresponding PPE gain even if the tattoos are never utilized.
- Various other possibilities include canon (Mercenary Adventures Training Camp), fan forum, The Rifter/optional material, GM unique, and any else that are likely to exist.

These Add-Ons also provide a variety of background hook, line, and sinker tie-ins including possible ongoing enemies directly or indirectly related to these. Tattoos = priority target for Splugorth Minion hunting parties, make other folks edgy that Splugorth may be hunting them, or whatever.