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The only things I would add to a throw weapon's 'rated damage' would be speed and/or weight damages, depending.

I would allow it. Think of playing dodge ball as an example. The stronger guy will yes throw the ball farther than the weaker guy. However, when both are throwing the same distance, the stronger guy is going to throw it with more force thereby doing the PS damage on top of the object damage. Now if you swap the ball for a knife, you'll get the base damage from being punctured by the knife, plus the damage from the force behind the throw. In my understanding the only things that do NOT get the PS bonus added are projectile weapons (ie ones that are not propelled by the PC's strength) bullets, arrows, bolts, and the like. However I have seen that a bow that is custom built for the PC will add the PS bonus.

RGG wrote:I understand this point. Here is the problem, should a thrown weapon do more damage then a gun? I mean really?
Why would you ever use guns if you know you can throw far harder. The difference is range only then, a gun would shoot farther. However in a city situations where there are many buildings... A thrown weapon is a better choice because range is not a real issue.

P.S. damage bonus of +57+2D6 damage from item thrown....
A high powered gun 6D6 only 36 unless they unload a full clip for multiple damage...

This is a hard thing to accept in my mind.

I fully see what you're saying here. I ran into the exact same issue with a PC of mine. In my ATB game i've adjusted the Animal PS powers to = 1/2 of the equivalent super power. I had a PC who was dealing out damage in almost the same amount you've listed. I got into a gun fight and was getting shot up badly before I remembered I could do more damage with a single punch than I could with a single shot from the AK-47. So I stashed the gun and beat the npc's into a bloody smear on the desert.

When you're worried about the game getting munchkin (a legit concern btw) you've just got to start either A. hitting them with things that can take the beating and dish it back. or B. hit them with situations they can't punch their way out of.

As a general rule of thumb I allow creatures with supernatural P.S. to inflict the same damage on thrown attacks but there is a chance that the thrown object is destroyed as per Supernatural P.S. in the Rifts: Game Master Guide.

RGG wrote:

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I would allow it. Think of playing dodge ball as an example. The stronger guy will yes throw the ball farther than the weaker guy. However, when both are throwing the same distance, the stronger guy is going to throw it with more force thereby doing the PS damage on top of the object damage. Now if you swap the ball for a knife, you'll get the base damage from being punctured by the knife, plus the damage from the force behind the throw. In my understanding the only things that do NOT get the PS bonus added are projectile weapons (ie ones that are not propelled by the PC's strength) bullets, arrows, bolts, and the like. However I have seen that a bow that is custom built for the PC will add the PS bonus.

I understand this point.
Here is the problem, should a thrown weapon do more damage then a gun?
I mean really?
Why would you ever use guns if you know you can throw far harder. The difference is range only then, a gun would shoot farther. However in a city situations where there are many buildings... A thrown weapon is a better choice because range is not a real issue.

P.S. damage bonus of +57+2D6 damage from item thrown....
A high powered gun 6D6 only 36 unless they unload a full clip for multiple damage...

This is a hard thing to accept in my mind. Then we have players unloading full clips and possibly killing innocents as well.
I suppose I will pose this question to the players as well. If my players want to have a ammo heavy game where every encounter is a full out shoot up, then they have little need of accounting for ammo. They are going to have to replace entire clips all the time.

I'll take this back to the players. See what they decide.

I do see the advantage and disadvantage. i just don't want the game to get munchkin in a silly way. Some players will feel left out. Or buy bombs to off set the difference... I see the game escalating in a very explosive way.

Well for starters, unless the player buys an obscenely large amounts of throwing knives (which would be hard to carry around with out being noticed), the player is going to have to recover the knife from the body (that is assuming that the knife hits) after every throw, which is going to burn actions and possibly expose the character to danger.

While the character could do more damage with a punch or possibly a thrown item, it would expose the character to danger, they could shoot and be hidden, if they are smart about it.

RGG wrote:Hey folks,
I just finished a game where a player insisted that Thrown weapons get the P.S. bonus.
As G.M. and being fairly knowledgeable on such things, Politely said you don't get the P.S. bonus.
More accurately, I state that P.S. would only apply to the distance the object is thrown and not the damage added to it.

Long story short, I search the message boards to discover I was accurate in my original ruling, but the discussion went on far to long, so we house ruled that P.S. damage bonus would be allow if the object is thrown with in 10 feet of the target. I personally don't like this ruling and have reminded the player that we will not continue using that rule after I have a chance to review the W.P. thrown weapons.

Well I want you all to chime in.

Technically speaking, your ruling was wrong. I will quote you the book and page number once I get the chance.
That is (and I emphasize) technically wrong.

RGG wrote:Would you allow P.S. damage on a thrown object regardless of what it may be?

Regardless? No.
But P.S. damage should be applied to thrown objects.

I always just assumed that P.S. damage was applied to thrown weapons and always played it that way. I just seemed totally logical to me (stronger people can throw harder), and there was nothing in the books that led me to believe otherwise.

That was until I purchased Mount Nimro and saw an optional rule (on page 19) in that which allowed one to apply half the giant's normal damage bonus to a thrown weapon, but only to giants and only if they throw them with 'all their strength', taking two actions to do so. That made it clear that apparently I wasn't supposed to be applying damage bonuses to thrown weapons at all.

But I still do.

Just to chime in 5 days late -- in my game I use Thrown weapons with P.S. damage bonus -- no real different than a sword @ range -- except a sword isn't meant to be thrown...but say, throwing knives or throwing axes. Archery definitely NOT but thrown...sure. If it's a M.D. knife and you have supernatural P.S. -- definitely. The knife is only doing 1d4 or 1d6 damage anyway.

For the OP, not sure what game your playing but page 328 of RUE states no PS damage bonus unless the OCC description states otherwise.

For Dragonfett, or you can use telekinesis or super telekinesis a single knife back to you.

I personally didn't like this rule either when I read it, but further inspection of the targeting skill in RUE says that 2 smaller items (knives/shurikens) can be thrown simultaneously at the same target with no mention of needing paired weapons. My personal ruling for this was when you get paired you can throw 2 per hand. Some might say that's even more overpowered than the PS bonus, but it isn't directly against the rules like the PS bonus.

The other thing to remember with throwing knives is that even with a supernatural strength of 30, you are only going to get a range of 180 ft. (240 ft. is absolute max with a supernatural strength of 31 or greater). You can throw knives all you want, guns will out range them any day even if you are Super Telekinetically throwing them.

McFacemelt wrote:For the OP, not sure what game your playing but page 328 of RUE states no PS damage bonus unless the OCC description states otherwise.

For Dragonfett, or you can use telekinesis or super telekinesis a single knife back to you.

I personally didn't like this rule either when I read it, but further inspection of the targeting skill in RUE says that 2 smaller items (knives/shurikens) can be thrown simultaneously at the same target with no mention of needing paired weapons. My personal ruling for this was when you get paired you can throw 2 per hand. Some might say that's even more overpowered than the PS bonus, but it isn't directly against the rules like the PS bonus.

The other thing to remember with throwing knives is that even with a supernatural strength of 30, you are only going to get a range of 180 ft. (240 ft. is absolute max with a supernatural strength of 31 or greater). You can throw knives all you want, guns will out range them any day even if you are Super Telekinetically throwing them.

WP targeting covers apples and oranges, in that it covers both muscle powered and mechanical powered weapons. Before they removed WP Thrown, muscle powered weapons received PS damage bonus. Weapons that rely on mechanical power should not get PS damage bonus.

WP targeting covers apples and oranges, in that it covers both muscle powered and mechanical powered weapons. Before they removed WP Thrown, muscle powered weapons received PS damage bonus. Weapons that rely on mechanical power should not get PS damage bonus.

McFacemelt wrote:For the OP, not sure what game your playing but page 328 of RUE states no PS damage bonus unless the OCC description states otherwise.

For Dragonfett, or you can use telekinesis or super telekinesis a single knife back to you.

I personally didn't like this rule either when I read it, but further inspection of the targeting skill in RUE says that 2 smaller items (knives/shurikens) can be thrown simultaneously at the same target with no mention of needing paired weapons. My personal ruling for this was when you get paired you can throw 2 per hand. Some might say that's even more overpowered than the PS bonus, but it isn't directly against the rules like the PS bonus.

The other thing to remember with throwing knives is that even with a supernatural strength of 30, you are only going to get a range of 180 ft. (240 ft. is absolute max with a supernatural strength of 31 or greater). You can throw knives all you want, guns will out range them any day even if you are Super Telekinetically throwing them.

WP targeting covers apples and oranges, in that it covers both muscle powered and mechanical powered weapons. Before they removed WP Thrown, muscle powered weapons received PS damage bonus. Weapons that rely on mechanical power should not get PS damage bonus.

The only oranges in the targeting box of apples are blowguns and slings/slingshots which I would think would be better suited in W.P. Archery (though it also mentions siege weapons, which I doubt have any place in anything but Palladium Fantasy), but it still doesn't deny the fact that the last paragraph in column one on page 328 of RUE states, "NO P.S. Damage Bonus: The damage bonus for Strength does NOT apply to arrows fired from a bow, or from a thrown weapon unless the O.C.C description specifically says that it does."

WP thrown as you said was removed, and is no longer valid. If the OP is playing a game in which that is an option and is allowing then that is fine, I was simply trying to provide an up to date answer for the OP without knowing what Palladium product they are playing, which is what was asked for.

EDIT
Page 286 RUE in the last paragraph covering Supernatural Strength it reads, "When wielding a hand weapon, supernatural beings inflict either the weapon damage plus the P.S. damage bonus (in S.D.C.), or their own P.S. damage as per Supernatural Strength, whichever is greater."

This would mean that a supernatural creature with a PS of 26-30 would deal the damage of the knife in question plus an additional 3D6 MD from the punch damage. But this is a swing of the weapon not a throw, and although the earlier analogy of dodge ball makes some sense one must also remember that once the item is thrown it is going to lose speed and momentum flying through the air unless the item has it's own propulsion system. An item thrown at you at point blank is going to hurt more than a item thrown any distance further than that.

If the item keeps its source of energy and you are struck with it, i.e. someone strikes you with a knife attack, it makes sense that you would take the damage of the knife as well as their strength bonus because the item in question is not losing its momentum.