New House Rule for Ritual spells

[Goliath Strongarm]

First, let me start with if your argument is "I don't see any reason to mess with any of the rules because the RAW are super awesome and completely perfect", or anything similar, I just don't want to hear it (or read it, as the case may be).

That being typed...



Rituals, as written, have a static save. Your save against a ritual version of a spell is always 16. He doesn't get his bonus to spell strength to modify this (in PF, this is made explicitly clear, where as it's not as clearly stated in RUE. They simply DON'T say that he gets his spell strength, like they do with spells).

For upper levels, this makes rituals extremely weak. By the time a wizard is 12th level, he has the same effective save (16), rituals take MUCH longer to cast, they are easier to disrupt. The only REAL advantage is if you have multiple participants being able to pool PPE.

But, is there a difference between making it a bunch of 12th level wizards and a bunch of 1st level wizards led by one 12th level wizard, besides the amount of PPE? Nope, none. Is there any more of a threat if there are 10000 cultists, or 1000 cultists or 2 cultists in that ritual? Nope, none. Just takes longer to stop, that's all. What about if the cultists are spell casters, versus being villagers that can barely read? What's the difference? The PPE.

Why? Why aren't there any modifiers for any of that? Shouldn't large groups of magic users, gathered together focusing their will to cast one mighty spell be something to be FEARED?

So, after discussing some stuff with a pal of mine the other night, and we bounced a few things back and forth, I ran some numbers. Here's my final idea..
************
Ritual Leader adds 1/2 Spell Strength Bonus (round up to nearest whole number)
Ritual members:
Any OCC that gets a spell strength bonus: +1/2 of current bonus (round down, minimum 1)
Any OCC that channels PPE NOT included above (spirit strikes, demon death blow, etc): +0.5 per person to spell strength
All other people: +0.25 to spell strength


After you add up your totals, any non-whole numbers don't count for spell strength, but the people can obviously still be included for purposes of PPE, and in case someone starts killing ritual members.

Depending on individual campaigns, GMs can put a "cap" on where the save goes, however, for that "earth shaking OMG we're here to save the world because these guys are casting a ritual to throw a volcano down on top of the Western Empire (or Chi-Town, or wherever)" campaign, where the "planet itself" or something similar, would have to resist, put some oomph behind the spell.


Let the commenting (and voting) begin.
*Edit was in the opening statement

[Giant2005]

These house rules aren't bad but for the most part, they aren't as good as the relevant Sorcerous Proficiencies (Ritual Specialist and Group Casting) in Through the Glass Darkly.
The Sorcerous Proficiencies however, don't do anything about Spell Strength - they only effect PPE cost, Range, Duration and Damage, so your rules fill that hole pretty well. I'd just rather see some rules amending the existing options to fill that need, instead of designing something that for the most part seems mutually exclusive.

[Damian Magecraft]

not bad GS.
my own house Rules for this are a tad different.

House Rule:
Rituals add a +4 to spell strength
If more than one wizard is involved in a ritual casting the Highest spell Strength is the base and a + is added for each additional caster (max of +4).

[Warshield73]

not bad GS.
my own house Rules for this are a tad different.

House Rule:
Rituals add a +4 to spell strength
If more than one wizard is involved in a ritual casting the Highest spell Strength is the base and a + is added for each additional caster (max of +4).

I like what you're going for here GS, but my rules are closer to Damian's than yours. I like to minimize the big charts and keep it simple.

[smashed]

I'm not a big fan of non-casters to add any spell strength bonus to a ritual.

Here are my house rules somewhat a mix between yours and Damians.
Rituals are +4 spell strength.
The leader of the ritual adds their spell strength.
Each additional caster can add their spell strength, but this maxes out at the average caster level of the additional members.

[Damian Magecraft]

not bad GS.
my own house Rules for this are a tad different.

House Rule:
Rituals add a +4 to spell strength
If more than one wizard is involved in a ritual casting the Highest spell Strength is the base and a + is added for each additional caster (max of +4).

here is a BTS variant I thought up a few years back.
I just may make this my new official House rule.
Rituals add a +4 spell strength.
Multiple casters:
Highest Spell Strength is the base.
+1 for every 2 casters (caster is defined as a being capable of utilizing spells on their own) past the first (max of a +6).
This "explains" mechanically why covens typically consist of 13 members.