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I know the burst rules have been played to death... but I have a new twist and other than waving a GM hand of NO I can't find a way around this.

Inquisitor can use a SD Weapon, lets say like a Sub Machine Gun. and do MD damage to Evil Super Natural Creatures. (Note this is a part house rule, Canon says evil super natural but then includes everything, so I limit to just Evil Alignments. )

Now apply to unloading the entire clip (yes I know this takes the whole round) into a single target. x20 Damage I believe.

so Lets assume a 4d6 damage. We are looking at an average of 240MD.

Now given this takes the entire round, a 1d6x10(Best MD Rifle I could find) fired 6 times will average around 180MD, so it's not that OP.

Allow?

ahh,,,hummmm Which Inquisitor? The Sea Inquisitor from Rifts Underseas?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:ahh,,,hummmm Which Inquisitor? The Sea Inquisitor from Rifts Underseas?

Would like to know which one myself. Sounds alot like that easy exploit rule about Psi-stalkers becoming MDC around sn's to me..but I'll reserve judgement.

I may have abused the combination of Sea Inquisitor and SDC .50 Machinegun (1D6x10+10 per round) in the past.

Which is where the problem comes in with the interaction between the Sea Inquisitor and the Burst Rules. He scaling can get pretty ridiculous, even if nerfed to affect only specific targets.

Jefffar wrote:I may have abused the combination of Sea Inquisitor and SDC .50 Machinegun (1D6x10+10 per round) in the past.

Ah okay. then according to trules it should be allowed as GM..I'd be pretty leary about that. But like Jaffar...I'd find the biggest SD weapon I could and go to town before the GM figures out you about to break his game.

And would that rule work with a barret Lt. 50?

It would, but the Barrett doesn't fire on full auto.

Jefffar wrote:It would, but the Barrett doesn't fire on full auto.

The same reason that the .50 cal BMG is ether mounted on a vehicle or on a "Tripod".

It kicks like a mule when you fire it.

Which can be over looked by ........players and GMs.

And no...having SNPS does not increase the char's inertia...so a char that weighs about the same as a human will get knocked on his bumm if he fires a .50 cal when standing up.

Are you really going to be using a 4D6 weapon?

Does it say it can be used on ranged SD weapons?

While I could come up with a few ways in which there can be more than one interpretation of the rules (ie, it doesn't actually say the SD to MD works with bursts), as a GM my concern is when something is not just a bit better or even a fair bit better than usual because of clever player combo's, but is actually just an I win button.

The 4D6 doesn't sound so bad, but it seems to be opening the door for someone to find a 5D6 weapon or higher, etc.

I don't mind players who want to find something that gives them a nice edge. But if the player doesn't care if they create an I win button, then either they are clueless that traditional in RPG's you can't do that and think the game will still have challenging, uncertain gameplay - OR they don't care about that. With the former I find them unintentionally disruptive, with the latter I find them deliberately disruptive and I'd decline to GM for them anymore.

To the OP, I have no idea whether you think if you can find a special combo then you think everything will be fine, or whether you don't care if a special combo makes an I-win button?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Jefffar wrote:It would, but the Barrett doesn't fire on full auto.

The same reason that the .50 cal BMG is ether mounted on a vehicle or on a "Tripod".

It kicks like a mule when you fire it.

Which can be over looked by ........players and GMs.

And no...having SNPS does not increase the char's inertia...so a char that weighs about the same as a human will get knocked on his bumm if he fires a .50 cal when standing up.

Ya, its why you can't stand and fire it. have to be prone and I recal it being semi-auto or atleast one version of it. might have been a standard .50 cal with a scope and rifled barrel I saw too..

Nomadic wrote:I know the burst rules have been played to death... but I have a new twist and other than waving a GM hand of NO I can't find a way around this.

Inquisitor can use a SD Weapon, lets say like a Sub Machine Gun. and do MD damage to Evil Super Natural Creatures. (Note this is a part house rule, Canon says evil super natural but then includes everything, so I limit to just Evil Alignments. )

Now apply to unloading the entire clip (yes I know this takes the whole round) into a single target. x20 Damage I believe.

so Lets assume a 4d6 damage. We are looking at an average of 240MD.

Now given this takes the entire round, a 1d6x10(Best MD Rifle I could find) fired 6 times will average around 180MD, so it's not that OP.

Allow?

It looks like you're using the burst/spray rules from the original Rifts book, p. 34.
If those are the rules you're using, not any of the updates from later books, then there's no need to bother with any fancy combos- those rules worked with MD weapons too.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nomadic wrote:I know the burst rules have been played to death... but I have a new twist and other than waving a GM hand of NO I can't find a way around this.

Inquisitor can use a SD Weapon, lets say like a Sub Machine Gun. and do MD damage to Evil Super Natural Creatures. (Note this is a part house rule, Canon says evil super natural but then includes everything, so I limit to just Evil Alignments. )

Now apply to unloading the entire clip (yes I know this takes the whole round) into a single target. x20 Damage I believe.

so Lets assume a 4d6 damage. We are looking at an average of 240MD.

Now given this takes the entire round, a 1d6x10(Best MD Rifle I could find) fired 6 times will average around 180MD, so it's not that OP.

Allow?

It looks like you're using the burst/spray rules from the original Rifts book, p. 34.
If those are the rules you're using, not any of the updates from later books, then there's no need to bother with any fancy combos- those rules worked with MD weapons too.

Well, for starters, this isn't me. This is a player of mine and after reading the powers the burst rule is the first thing I thought of. I haven't read the RUE cover to cover, but I'm assuming it still allows SDC Weapons to be used this way.

Lets bring this topic back on track and not get into a .50 cal knockdown fight.

Does it say it can be used on ranged SD Weapons

Yes

To the OP, I have no idea whether you think if you can find a special combo then you think everything will be fine, or whether you don't care if a special combo makes an I-win button?

This is a preventive strike. The way I Run my games is 2 weeks before game play I sit down with my 8-10 players and everyone builds a story together. Classes, back story, etc. I then have two weeks to look over the group, see if there are any pit falls, or if anyone can make an IWIN button and nip it in the but ahead of time.

I misstook your position as being the player, Nomadic.

For myself I think it's pivotal to test things in play - and in order to do that, to just tell the players what things are 'on parole'. Ie, they might get changed, don't get attached to them. Play with it for awhile, see if it's good or if it's stepped over the bounds of good into just an automatic IWIN.

But yeah, I stepped into the thread thinking I was talking to a player, so I'm sort of displaced now, lol!

Nomadic wrote: I haven't read the RUE cover to cover, but I'm assuming it still allows SDC Weapons to be used this way.

Nope.
It's just x2 damage for a 3-shot burst, or x3 damage for a 6-shot burst that takes 2 attacks, for most weapons anyway. IIRC, it's in the Weapon Proficiencies section.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nomadic wrote: I haven't read the RUE cover to cover, but I'm assuming it still allows SDC Weapons to be used this way.

Nope.
It's just x2 damage for a 3-shot burst, or x3 damage for a 6-shot burst that takes 2 attacks, for most weapons anyway. IIRC, it's in the Weapon Proficiencies section.

the light and heavy MG's get a bit weird (in that they give example damage, which works out to one or two bullets hitting in a 15 to 30 round burst), so a lot of people houserule a multiplier for those as well (usually x5 and x10.. which means a .50cal firing a 30rd burst at one target can do a about 1D6 to 1D8md without special ammo)

it was the many many many ways that players were abusing the old burst rules, how poorly thought out they were that created the change. (they didn't use bullet count for example, so a larger magazine didn't actually benefit anything. and there were weapons that due to the % of magazine base, could fire one bullet for normal damage, or get double damage by firing a short burst of.. one bullet.)

the new rules have their flaws as well, but they balance a bit better and are easier to remember.