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The idea of wipping them out from orbit is not be a likely way to win. So your thoughts?

The Invid would have a very bad time against the Vampires, given the invulnerabilities of the Vampires. This would become a war of attrition, with only the Invid losing troops.

Could see the Regis's stage Fives being a risk. If one them got turned then. The real problem I do see is they (Regis & Regent) tend to think in overwhelming force vs. practical tactics. The Regis after her encounters with humans and her enlightened views may fair much better than the regent. The other difficulty would be Could she learn how to injure the the vamps soon enough. I would certainly give the Regent less of chance based on his attitude and tactical outlook.

As fro defenses an invid Hive and genesis pit would be reasonably safe from out right attack. Not sure if the shield would prevent teleports in but guessing there'd be enough patrols.

wyrmraker wrote:The Invid would have a very bad time against the Vampires, given the invulnerabilities of the Vampires. This would become a war of attrition, with only the Invid losing troops.

That seems to presume that the Invid are too stupid and incapable of learning how to deal with a threat even though they're known to engage in experimental analysis of things and those in the higher levels to be quite intelligent. They'd eventually figure out what it takes to kill one and go from there.

the invid basically, as far as i can tell, have the capability to instantly convert energy into matter and vice versa. once they figure out the weaknesses of vampires, orbital weapons actually become an option... they just need to instantly fabricate a giant space mirror when needed.

they should also be perfectly capable of creating trees. and garlic. in large quantities, and instantly. at first, the invid will have problems, but that will end in fairly short order if they start studying the problem and how others have solved it.

edit: for clarification, i realize that not every invid can instantly do the matter/energy conversion trick. but then, it only takes a few or even just one, if they're in the right place.

Would they even see each other as danger to be taken out? The Invid biology may not even be palatable to the vampire diet. The Invid could also evolve into something that isn't palatable or susceptible to the vampire, where the vampire is static in its evolution.

Invid weapons are plasma based, so a Vampire may be incinerated (sorry I don't have much info on Palladium Vampires, most references I have say to refer to WB I don't have so this may not hold up).

Protoculture is Bio-Energy and fuels Invid Mecha and weapons, and may qualify as a form of magic energy (PPE can be thought of as a bio-energy), so their weapons and attacks may constitute magic from the vampire perspective (not necessarily in the Robotech universe).

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Rimmerdal wrote:The idea of wipping them out from orbit is not be a likely way to win. So your thoughts?

There is nothing that can really be done from orbit that would hurt vampires other than maybe bombarding nesting areas during the day time but it would be very hard to pin point any kind of attack like that to get more than a trivial amount of them.

Problem for the invid is none of their strengths help against vampires and most of their units do not have much in the way of gripping hands so even using make shift stakes would be hard for them.

kaid wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:The idea of wipping them out from orbit is not be a likely way to win. So your thoughts?

There is nothing that can really be done from orbit that would hurt vampires other than maybe bombarding nesting areas during the day time but it would be very hard to pin point any kind of attack like that to get more than a trivial amount of them.

Problem for the invid is none of their strengths help against vampires and most of their units do not have much in the way of gripping hands so even using make shift stakes would be hard for them.

Which is why I gave the Regis a better chance. stage 5's and 6's..also guessing 7's,8's and so on once gets some of the locals in her lab.

wyrmraker wrote:The Invid would have a very bad time against the Vampires, given the invulnerabilities of the Vampires. This would become a war of attrition, with only the Invid losing troops.

Are the Invid incapable of doing research to discover wood/water/sun vulnerabilities and exploiting them?

They would fight a defensive/research war for a period, using containment, until they found what they needed and retooled their army using new weaponry. Vampires would have to try to rush a win, or they would lose.

Tor wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:The Invid would have a very bad time against the Vampires, given the invulnerabilities of the Vampires. This would become a war of attrition, with only the Invid losing troops.

Are the Invid incapable of doing research to discover wood/water/sun vulnerabilities and exploiting them?

They would fight a defensive/research war for a period, using containment, until they found what they needed and retooled their army using new weaponry. Vampires would have to try to rush a win, or they would lose.

The regis is more science orientated and has a record of thinking out the box. She did make the stage 5's and I suspect she'd have some nasty ideas for anti-vamp hunters in that sexy bald head of hers. The catch would be how she learn about sun working on them offensively and could she exploit that?

I think as silly as it sounds...mirrors would be part of her thinking..even if reflected light did not kill she'd probably try that. Waters easy she'd place her self near a source of water if she could.

Love to see how she dealt with magic though..

Rimmerdal wrote:I suspect she'd have some nasty ideas for anti-vamp hunters in that sexy bald head of hers. The catch would be how she learn about sun working on them offensively and could she exploit that?

It would come up eventually, she could be engaging them in prolonged combat and some stupid newbie Wild gets caught unaware by dawn, or perhaps they follow retreating vamps at dawn to a shelter and bomb it and watch them mist when the rays hit.

TheRob1 wrote:I really wish this topic had taken off, I find it quite fascinating.

I was thumbing through the origin Rifts conversion book and on page 35 in the Robotech section it mentions that the invid are more sensitive to the metaphysical and the concept of Ley Lines and P.P.E. It supposes that they might even be able to open rifts, perhaps as a variation on a space fold operation.

This makes me wonder if the Invid might be able to use Techno-wizard equipment.

The Regis as TW might be. That would be more the regent. he was the mechanically inclined of the two. That means an invid (stage 4+) may be able to take up magic..the regis herself...well her with magic is a very big threat and would add a whole new aspect to her tactics.

Given the vulnerability to silver..I could see silver inorganics, talons and teeth. Silver claws..now I don't see wood stake projectors..(unless Hagan dumps Archie and moves in with the Regis.)

Im pretty sure the Invid would eventually learn how to dispose of a vampire, especially if the evolution obsessed Regis is involved. The next step would be to make a caste of Invid that would be to exclusively fight vampires. Silver claws, wooden projectile weapons, plasma weapons to burn the bodies...

The Invid Princes and Princesses would be in danger of being turned as they are pretty much human, but as we saw with Ariel after the Battle of Reflex point, they end up being even more powerful than a typical human. Perhaps they cannot be turned at all due to their natural energy form.

On the other hand, Vampires can really do little to damage most Invid caste mecha other than physical damage. Just as a vampire can turn to mist to escape, an Invid can simply...fly. Fly fast, and high.

In a prolonged campaign, I see the Invid being at the losing end of a string of engagements, but eventually learning to adapt to their new foe. Eventually they would start to win a few engagements, but in the end, it would be a stale mate as neither side would really be able to have a significant advantage over the other.

Depends on how angry the Invid are to continue any conflict with a vampire intelligence. Vampires praying on human slaves might be regarded at first as an agricultural pest, unless the vamps start making inroads into the human population(weakening or killing them faster than fresh slaves can be brought to the Flower of Life Farms), at which point the Regis might star looking to control the threat...not out of altruism, but because the vamps are cutting into the Protoculture production. If the vamps do any damage to Invid, their facilities, or the Flower, then they'll be treated as any other threat to her domain.
Now, if the Regis has a choice, she just might declare the vamps cursed 'children of shadow' and go off to find some better place to set up shop. On the other hand, if she wants to hang onto a rich Flower of Life source, she might start looking at the threat seriously. In INTENSE Regis mode. this means capturing and vivisecting vampires Reid-style, and capturing any humans she observes also fighting the vampires, and squeezing them for information(before enslaving or killing them in the process, maybe turning a few into cyborgs or mutants and using them as cat's paws to test what they told her about fighting the bloodsuckers). The possibility of Genesis Pit-conceived anti-vampire mutants, like wood-armored predator plants, then becomes a possibility.


The Regent is different. For him, it's a matter of POWER. He might be suckered into a sustained campaign against the Invid under several circumstances; they disrespect and resist him on a world he claims as his own, in which case he has to destroy them to sate his wounded pride, or the vampires are turned Tirolians/Zentraedi, in which case they are a new weapon created by his enemy that he HAS to destroy. Crush them, because he is the REGENT! And he'll take hideous losses in the bargain, until he starts focusing on using typhoons of Inorganics to break even.

Artificial Sunlight beams and silver rounds would be something I can imagine, especially if they used the older gunpods on there bioroids to reduce Proto cost. As for if they could turn..not sure if the vamp could get nourishment from there proto blood.

Really enjoying reading this.

Man I feel like I'm going to have to watch the dubs to understand what's being talked about. While usually the tendency is for dubs to oversimplify anime I'm getting the impression that Robotech might have made it more complicated to explain how the 3 series could be merged.

Kagashi wrote:Im pretty sure the Invid would eventually learn how to dispose of a vampire, especially if the evolution obsessed Regis is involved.

If evolution is the obsession, perhaps vampires might be incorporated to some degree rather than wiped out? Couldn't you potentially enslave a vampire intelligence and utilize it to produce breeds as needed?

Well I still play with Protoculture as somewhat mystical, so invid energy weapons are treated as magical in my Rifts world.

That said the Invid assuming they survived long enough to figure out the weakness of the vampires would quickly wipe them out, particularly considering they would have no objection to obliterating any and all humans in the area.

Tor wrote:Man I feel like I'm going to have to watch the dubs to understand what's being talked about. While usually the tendency is for dubs to oversimplify anime I'm getting the impression that Robotech might have made it more complicated to explain how the 3 series could be merged.

Kagashi wrote:Im pretty sure the Invid would eventually learn how to dispose of a vampire, especially if the evolution obsessed Regis is involved.

If evolution is the obsession, perhaps vampires might be incorporated to some degree rather than wiped out? Couldn't you potentially enslave a vampire intelligence and utilize it to produce breeds as needed?

Interesting. So an Invid Simulagent whom mimics the powers and abilities of a vampire, feeding on PPE rather than Protoculture. Perhaps this would eventually lead to an Invid form of Techno-Wizardry as the Regis learns to harness the power of PPE as opposed to strictly Protoculture.

Kagashi wrote:

Tor wrote:Man I feel like I'm going to have to watch the dubs to understand what's being talked about. While usually the tendency is for dubs to oversimplify anime I'm getting the impression that Robotech might have made it more complicated to explain how the 3 series could be merged.

Kagashi wrote:Im pretty sure the Invid would eventually learn how to dispose of a vampire, especially if the evolution obsessed Regis is involved.

If evolution is the obsession, perhaps vampires might be incorporated to some degree rather than wiped out? Couldn't you potentially enslave a vampire intelligence and utilize it to produce breeds as needed?

Interesting. So an Invid Simulagent whom mimics the powers and abilities of a vampire, feeding on PPE rather than Protoculture. Perhaps this would eventually lead to an Invid form of Techno-Wizardry as the Regis learns to harness the power of PPE as opposed to strictly Protoculture.

Now thats a scary thought. Then PPE and Proto would be on par. Given the items like the Forge that override DR..Proto seems right in the category. Kind makes me want to try an AI vamp in robotech setting just to mess with people...Roy Fokker...VF pilot and Vampire hunter..