Robotech vs. Macross II what is the difference?

[sirkermittsg]

I am aware that Macross II is related to the original Macross so it would not include the Southern Cross and Invid Invasion stuff.....it also has some 1000 ships fron Britai's fleet allying themselves with the humans.

I also aware that it occurs many years in the future of Macross...like 50 or so years.

other then that what are the differences between Macross II and Robotech?

[torjones]

I am aware that Macross II is related to the original Macross so it would not include the Southern Cross and Invid Invasion stuff.....it also has some 1000 ships fron Britai's fleet allying themselves with the humans.

I also aware that it occurs many years in the future of Macross...like 50 or so years.

other then that what are the differences between Macross II and Robotech?

Have you seen the anime yet?
If it was just spoilers, I'd use a spoiler tag, and just go into it, but I'm just looking for what you really want to know here, and find out what you already know about the show?

[ShadowLogan]

other then that what are the differences between Macross II and Robotech?

Actually Macross 2, like Robotech is a separate universe from the main Macross timeline and is part of the DYRL-love universe as opposed to the proper SDF:M universe (which includes things like Macross 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Plus).

In Macross 2, a Zentran force arrives every 10years or so. In Robotech the Zentraedi (Zentran) are pretty much extinct by NG/TSC as a race/culture, and do not attack that periodically.

In Macross 2, the SDF-1 has been restored to an operational museum piece (and fires off a discharge every so often) after the end battle (and taking heavy damage in DYRL). In Robotech the SDF-1 isn't around anymore having been totaled in 2013/4 and buried in 3 mounds by 2029. There is also the obvious carrier arms being different between the two.

Variable mecha examples in M2 are pretty static and what little change is there seems to have evolved from the VF-1 approach (even the Marduk VF seems to follow the Valk model). In Robotech, the various variable mecha are much more independent and distinct from each other in this regard. In Robotech by NG/TSC (earlier if we use Sentinels OVA) we have Veritechs with internal/conformal missile launchers, but in M2/DYRL it doesn't appear until the Metal Siren (much later).

Protoculture in Robotech refers to a fuel/energy source, in M2-DYRL/SDF:M it refers to an actual race responsible for creation of humans AND Zentraedi.

In DYRL/M2, Earth was devastated BEFORE the SDF-1 returned to Earth. Unlike in Robotech where the SDF-1 returned to Earth before the RoD.

[sirkermittsg]

I have seen a little bit of Macross II...but not all of it.

[taalismn]

I beleive there have been several threads in the past about using Macross II mecha and gear in the Robotech setting, ignoring the aforementioned storyline differences to use the (non-protoculture-powered) mecha as possible future developments of the VF-1 Valkyrie and Destroid lines, either as Chiinese/Russian machines, colonial forces, or post-Reflex Point/Liberation mecha(using the larger mecha frames for the more massy fusion/SLMH powerplants).

[Seto Kaiba]

I am aware that Macross II is related to the original Macross so it would not include the Southern Cross and Invid Invasion stuff.....it also has some 1000 ships fron Britai's fleet allying themselves with the humans.

Eh... before we delve too deeply into this, it's probably better if I start by letting you know virtually everything that was presented in Palladium's Macross II RPG is incorrect. Somehow... some way... they got almost every detail of the series wrong, right down to the year it's set in. Exactly how it happened, I can't tell you (because Palladium has NEVER responded to any inquiry we've sent them about it), but pretty much every detail regarding the OVA's setting, its backstory, its timeline, its characters, its mecha, etc. is all incorrect.

I also aware that it occurs many years in the future of Macross...like 50 or so years.

Officially, the events of the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA occur in a "parallel world" continuity that treats Macross: Do You Remember Love? as the "true" version of the first space war, and depicts events that occur in 2091 and 2092 in that timeline... roughly 80 years after the end of the first space war.

other then that what are the differences between Macross II and Robotech?

Whoa... now THAT is an example of "short question, LONG answer".

Okay, where to start?

Backstory! There are, as you know, no Robotech Masters, no Invid, none of that Haydonite nonsense... no "flowers of life" and Protoculture is an ancient civilization. To make a long story short:

Around half a million years BCE, the galaxy's first sentient species, known now as the Protoculture, emerged and developed the first interstellar civilization. They used their advanced genetic science to improve themselves, to terraform worlds, and so on, creating designer "sub-Protoculture" species to do the actual legwork in preparing new worlds to be colonized. They advanced their science to the point that they no longer needed to reproduce normally, using cloning technology that made love and so on completely unnecessary. This led to the separation of the genders in society, and eventually resulted in an honest-to-goodness civil war along gender lines... a war fought by proxy using giant, genetically engineered soldiers based on the male and female Protoculture genome called the Zentradi (men) and Meltrandi (women). The war got so thoroughly out of hand that it resulted in mutually-assured destruction of both sides, causing the Protoculture to lose control of their soldiers and forcing the survivors to flee into the galactic wilderness.

One such group settled on Earth and tried to start over with men and women in coexistence, re-engineering the local fauna into a sub-Protoculture species (humanity) that would do the hard work of building a complex society for them. They were able to build a fairly sophisticated city and start to reestablish their society before being forced to flee again when the war between the Zentradi and Meltrandi got uncomfortably close to the Sol system, burying their city and leaving their primitive human creations to fend for themselves.

Flash forward a few tens of thousands of years, and in the year 1999 a badly damaged Meltrandi gun destroyer crashed on South Ataria island in the Ogosawara islands south of Japan. Humanity salvaged the wreck, dubbing the advanced tech it contained "Overtechnology", unified the world's governments after a brief bout of internal conflict, and began erecting new defenses against the possibility of hostile alien contact... starting with the reconstruction of the gun destroyer, which was to become the SDF-1 Macross. The Zentradi caught up to the fleeting Meltrandi ship ten years later, and the booby traps buried in the Macross's original computer fired its main gun at them automatically, starting the first space war.

Events-wise, the war was much different... the Macross had ARMD-01 and -02 for its arms, the Prometheus having gotten blasted in half during the opening salvos of the orbital bombardment. It still fled to Pluto's orbit with the island's population aboard, and fought its way back. Basically, watch DYRL to be filled in on most of this stuff.

After the war nominally ended in 2010 and the Zentradi uprisings stopped when their leader fled into space using a repaired ship, humanity started launching colony missions into deep space, so that another cataclysmic war would never wipe out its entire population. The first ship was launched in 2012, the SDF-2 Megaroad-01, which finally left the Sol system with its escort of next-generation VF-4 Siren fighters in 2014. Thereafter, small skirmishes with rogue Zentradi fleets left over from the Boddole Zer 465th Main Fleet and other forces occurred fairly frequently, followed by major incursions in 2036 and 2037 led by Zentradi officers who'd fled the aftermath of their defeat by humanity, and a new major incursion in 2054 started by colony ships that ran headlong into a Zentradi main fleet, before petering out into occasional skirmishes with scout forces and the like once every decade or so. There are still a couple thousand fleets of Zentradi and Meltrandi kicking around the galaxy, each about the same size as Boddole Zer's 465th Main fleet (about 4.8 million ships strong).

In 2091, humanity ran into the Mardook (yes, that's the correct spelling) when one of their recon forces fold jumped into Jupiter's vicinity, and assumed they were Zentradi because they use Zentradi ships, starting the events of the OVA. The Mardook are hinted to be another group of Protoculture who escaped the collapse of their civilization 498,000 years ago, which retained or reclaimed control over some of the Zentradi and Meltrandi forces, and are on a militant mission to save their culture from extinction by killing the hell out of everything that might be a threat to it. Earth is but one of many populated planets both inside and outside its solar system, and there are millions of humans and Zentradi and hybrids on Earth at any given time, brought about by cloning (early on), the good old fashioned way, and periodic influxes of new immigrants from defeated Zentradi fleets.




Technologically, Macross II is WAY different from Robotech. Humanity's been reverse-engineering and adapting overtechnology from the Zentradi and Meltrandi, and often combining the two into something new. They've always had a good, firm grasp of all the technology they use (whereas in RT, humanity doesn't really know how their stuff works), and have evolved their military hardware based on lessons learned and technological advances instead of reinventing the wheel.

Explaining all of that could take a LONG time... sufficed to say, Macross's setting is usually a massive leg-up on what Robotech's Earth Forces have, and in some areas Macross's UN Forces are more advanced than even what the Robotech Masters were capable of (especially WRT cloning).

The fighters in Macross II are the result of decades of technological advancement. Contrary to what the RPG claims, they're actually very new... the VF-XX is about 30 years old and has been largely phased out except for a few units of the Zentradi Marines, while the VF-2SS Valkyrie II is only 10 years old, the VF-2JA is only 5 years old, and the VA-1SS Metal Siren is brand spanking new. (The RPG missed a bunch of intermediate designs, like the VF-4 Siren, the Refined Valkyrie, VF-4S Super Siren, and the original VF-2 Valkyrie II, which collectively cover 2012-2072.) The fighters in the OVA are a synthesis of humanity's Variable Fighter technology and Zentradi/Meltrandi battle suit technology, making them far more durable, faster, increasing their generator output threefold, and so on.

The UN Forces use a mixture of captured Zentradi ships taken from various fleets they've beaten and new ships developed on their own. Their fleet's kinda light in 2091-2092 because they took a real pounding in 2054 that cost them most of the fleet they had, and they've been rebuilding ever since. Classes of ship like the standard battleship, the Heracles, the Gloria, and the Macross Cannons are all post-2054 developments, while older classes of human-built ship like the old Daedalus II-class space carriers and Macross-class fortresses have been retired.

[jaymz]

In response to the op.....you got an hour or so of free time?

And in case you are going to ask what DYRL is....it;s Macros Do You Remember Love. A movie version of the events of the original macross TV series.

[torjones]

Oh, another difference? While it's taken many years to get a sequel to Robotech (Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles, both of which were supposed to generate new series, and neither of which did) Macross has had many sequals, movies, specials, sound tracks, models, and a great deal of other merchandise.

You have:
Macross Zero (shows a little bit about Roy Fokker and how he got started with Valkyries. Also tells a bit about the Protoculture)
Macross (That got us all started on this lovely little obsession! )
Macross Plus (Story about a couple of test pilots testing the two Valkyries that we see being deployed in 7)
Macross 7 (The story of Nekki Basara and his adventures with the daughter of Max and Milia Jenius, who are incidently in command of the Macross 7 fleet. The fleet is fighting a remnant of a species created by the protoculture)
Macross Frontier (#25, the 25th anniversary series)(Where we find yet another of the species developed by the protoculture, and how the universe really works!)

Hopefully, we should be seeing the next incarnation in the series soon, or at least start hearing about it soon!

You can't buy them in the US (to the best of my knowledge) so go download them, and enjoy a couple weeks of free time getting sucked away!

[jaymz]

Macross Frontier (#25, the 25th anniversary series)(Where we find yet another of the species developed by the protoculture, and how the universe really works!)


[/color]

Seto can correct me if I am wrong but I do not think the Varja were created by the protoculture and the protoculture were in fact afraid of them and in fact copied much of their abilities in their own technology (space folds and such see the ties to macross zero and the bird human as well)

And keep in mind Macoss II isn't part of that line of sequels...

[sirkermittsg]

wow totally different.

how closely does robotech follow the macross osm?

[jaymz]

wow totally different.

how closely does robotech follow the macross osm?

Well if you mean Robotech Macross versus Macross TV Series Proper....

The biggest change is that Protoculture is not an energy source at all in Macross Proper. It is culture, thus the reason why Minmay/Minmei is such a shock to them (the Zentraedi) as the only culture the Zentraedi knew prior to that was one of war. Otherwise, at least to me, the story line is relatively unchanged for the first era of Robotech.

[Colonel Wolfe]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

[jaymz]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh, another difference? While it's taken many years to get a sequel to Robotech (Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles, both of which were supposed to generate new series, and neither of which did) Macross has had many sequals, movies, specials, sound tracks, models, and a great deal of other merchandise.

That's less than half of what's generally considered canon too... the list of Macross titles is EXTENSIVE and its only getting longer. You CAN actually get legitimate copies through various channels in the US, though they won't come with English audio or subtitles... though rumor has it that the newest release of the Macross Frontier movies on blu-ray's coming with English subtitles, so apparently Big West has realized our plight at last and is doing an end-run around HG's obstructive behavior. 's far as the "next incarnation", there've been a few of those since Frontier... like a serialized novel entitled Macross the Ride, which has been confirmed-for-canon and takes place on Macross Frontier a year before the Vajra conflict; or Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, which is looking like it will shortly be becoming Macross's sixth canon video game.

Macross Frontier (#25, the 25th anniversary series)(Where we find yet another of the species developed by the protoculture, and how the universe really works!)[/color]

Seto can correct me if I am wrong but I do not think the Varja were created by the protoculture and the protoculture were in fact afraid of them and in fact copied much of their abilities in their own technology (space folds and such see the ties to macross zero and the bird human as well)

I'd correct you if you were wrong, but you're not. torjones is, as you say, wrong to assert that the Vajra were made by the Protoculture. In fact, the Macross Frontier series clearly states that the Vajra were a species the Protoculture encountered during their early space exploration and studied extensively. It's strongly implied that the Zentradi mecha and ships are based on natural super dimension lifeforms like the Vajra and the galactic whales, and that Vajra biology may have been the inspiration for their work in biotechnology that made artificial super dimension lifeforms like the Protodeviln and the "Birdhuman" bio-mecha possible.

And keep in mind Macoss II isn't part of that line of sequels...

Aye, the "prime continuity" (as I call it) is a completely separate thing from the "DYRLverse" of which Macross II is a part. The titles of the DYRLverse are:

Macross: Do You Remember Love?
Macross: Flashback 2012
Macross 2036
Macross: Eternal Love Song
Macross II: Lovers Again

Sukehiro Tomita's novelizations of the Macross II OVA contain some details of the 2054 Zentradi invasion and go past the nominal ending of the OVA to talk about what Ishtar and Hibiki and Sylvie did after the war as well. There's some very interesting stuff in there, along with some beautiful original art made for the novels by Haruhiko Mikimoto.

wow totally different.

how closely does robotech follow the macross osm?

It varies, really... the Robotech adaptation of the original 1982 Super Dimension Fortress Macross series kept the character relationships, most of the actual characterization, the majority of the major plot points, and so on. The changes mostly come in motivations... like what the Zentradi were after (they were chasing a ship belonging to their ancient enemy, instead of chasing a magic, special warship), why they didn't simply nuke Earth into oblivion right off the bat (they thought, after encountering "lost technologies" like reaction warheads, that they'd found a stronghold of their long-vanished creators and were understandably fascinated and terrified in equal measure), etc. There's also some changes in terms of dates, like Macross being set between 2009 and 2012 (you may remember the closing title card from the broadcast version of RT kept the "So long, 2012" caption), and the like.

Other information, especially mechanical hard data, was copied almost whole-cloth from Macross OSM sources... and character information was usually copied as well. There are minor deviations on that front, like the "Macross Saga" mecha running on conventional nuclear fusion instead of the uberpowerful alien thermonuclear reaction overtechnology, or having characters ages revised to make them older... usually so they'd be of age to join the military in the US (Hikaru was originally 16, only a year older than Minmay, but the legal age of adulthood in Macross is 17). The RPG pinches a lot of the info that its stats are based on from OSM sources, though the actual crunchy bits are assigned almost arbitrarily... that's how they ended up with stuff that doesn't actually exist in Robotech, like the micro-missile pods for the VF-1, which first appeared in Macross: Do You Remember Love?.

Obviously, as I've mentioned before, there are other major changes like "Protoculture" being an ancient civilization which created humanity, the Zentradi, etc. rather than magic flower fuel, but getting into those would turn this already overly wordy post into a novella. Robotech's version of "protoculture" is mainly derived from Southern Cross with at least some minor roots in MOSPEADA.


EDIT: Just as a side note, Clash of the Bionoids is a REALLY bad place to start. Like actually a hinderance. It was a real chop job edit of DYRL and is probably best forgotten. The BEST place to start would probably be to track down a copy of either the Animeigo remastered subs-only release of Macross's original series, or the ADV Films version of same that also came with a truly spectacularly awful English dub.

[Colonel Wolfe]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

Thanks for the Clash is one of the best adaptations of DYRL. I recommend to anyone wanting to get into Anime and Macros to look it up.

[Arnie100]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

Thanks for the Clash is one of the best adaptations of DYRL. I recommend to anyone wanting to get into Anime and Macros to look it up.

[Colonel Wolfe]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

Thanks for the Clash is one of the best adaptations of DYRL. I recommend to anyone wanting to get into Anime and Macros to look it up.

I was Shocked by how much I enjoyed it as well. not being that much into Macros because of Macros sevin I wasn't Sure CotB was for me, but I picked it up and after a viewing, I fell in love... It currently is sitting next to my betamax player ready to go. I'm hotly anticipating the HD-DVD release of the movie, knowing the special features will be impressive. Clash makes me wonder why Beg West has not brought all of Macros over as Clash sequels... The 7-Bionoids, Before-Clash/Bionoids-0 and Bionoids Frontier... keeping the rigid standards of the original dubbing and production, these would be run-away hit for a new Generation of japanimation lovers. sadly its a missed opportunity for fans everywhere to fall in love with the Bionoid actions I grew up with.

[Kryptt]

Good god man don't watch that clash BS! Here's the movie in its original language with English subs.

Warning: Linking to pirated content.

Do yourself a favore and watch this instead. From what I've seen the 2 MF movies will contain proper English subs as opposed to Engrish subs.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... -subtitles

I hope seto and I aren't to late!

[camk4evr]

if your looking for more Macros stuff, Look up the American Adaptation of the Japanimation movie DYRL goes by the name "Clash of the Bionoids". its a great movie, and will help establish the alternate universe that the Macros too Japnimation is set in.

Thanks for the Clash is one of the best adaptations of DYRL. I recommend to anyone wanting to get into Anime and Macros to look it up.

I was Shocked by how much I enjoyed it as well. not being that much into Macros because of Macros sevin I wasn't Sure CotB was for me, but I picked it up and after a viewing, I fell in love... It currently is sitting next to my betamax player ready to go. I'm hotly anticipating the HD-DVD release of the movie, knowing the special features will be impressive. Clash makes me wonder why Beg West has not brought all of Macros over as Clash sequels... The 7-Bionoids, Before-Clash/Bionoids-0 and Bionoids Frontier... keeping the rigid standards of the original dubbing and production, these would be run-away hit for a new Generation of japanimation lovers. sadly its a missed opportunity for fans everywhere to fall in love with the Bionoid actions I grew up with.

And I was shocked by how much I wanted to smash it with a hammer and set the pieces on fire.

Seriously, you don't want to watch Clash of the Bionoids unless you are being paid (alot) to do so.

[Kryptt]

+1 to the above post

[jaymz]

For the record my was more because it is probably the easiest way to get a copy of the DYRL movie not that it is the best quality version of it.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I don't understand why the Hate, it is a great movie. CoTB has the action and adventure kids love, sometimes when my toddler son is unable to sleep, we watch Clash of the Bionoids together and he brings up some of the social and economic concerns presented by the movie. He ranks the movie up with Ben-10 and Regular-show in terms of how much he loves it.
my CoTB conversions for Robotech, allowing players to play in the exciting bionoids world are a work in progress, trying to capture the Flavor and action of the setting has forced me to hand-write my on RPg system from the ground up.
I've seen these other versions of CoTB, including one in the original Japaneses, and I can't agree that they are as good, something is lost in these other versions, perhaps FHE's dedication to quality and bringing Forgien-language films home to a US audience.
If you can find CoTB, its the best version to see, It is a bit of a collectors item, so it can be hard to find.
Honestly the things added to the other versions of CoTB aren't really that great, so I don't know why people hate on CoTB so much, without CoTB I doubt anyone would know what all this Macros stuff is about.

[Kryptt]

For the record my was more because it is probably the easiest way to get a copy of the DYRL movie not that it is the best quality version of it.

I was referring to the hammer comment.

[Seto Kaiba]

Good god man don't watch that clash BS! Here's the movie in its original language with English subs.

While I applaud both your sentiment and your willingness to help a brother find his Macross fix, you gotta keep that on the down-low so as to not violate the rules here.

And I was shocked by how much I wanted to smash it with a hammer and set the pieces on fire.

Seriously, you don't want to watch Clash of the Bionoids unless you are being paid (alot) to do so.

Yeah... it's pretty unusual for a person who's seen the genuine article to not find Clash of the Bionoids faintly insulting, if not outright condemning it as a fly-by-night hackjob of an edit.

Watching the heavily edited chop job that is Clash of the Bionoids to get a feel for the content of the Macross: Do You Remember Love? movie and the Macross II: Lovers Again continuity would honestly be every bit as pointlessly counterproductive and fundamentally unsound as watching Robotech: the Untold Story to get a feel for Megazone 23. The edited version was butchered so badly and so comprehensively that very little remains of the original's setting and story and what was left after the editors finished flowed as smoothly and naturally as a river of bricks.

It really is better for anyone wishing to get an accurate feel for the Macross II timeline to watch Macross: Do You Remember Love? in its original, unedited format... even if you have to do it on YouTube. Let's just say it's not without reason that today, almost thirty years after its theatrical debut, DYRL is still hailed as one of the most exceptional mecha anime titles ever produced.

[Kryptt]

Good god man don't watch that clash BS! Here's the movie in its original language with English subs.

While I applaud both your sentiment and your willingness to help a brother find his Macross fix, you gotta keep that on the down-low so as to not violate the rules here.

My bad on the link.

Let's just say it's not without reason that today, almost thirty years after its theatrical debut, DYRL is still hailed as one of the most exceptional mecha anime titles ever produced.

I was thinking the same thing the other day when I was watching the movie. The animation still holds up quit well after all these years. I hope bandai releases it on bd again this time with English subs like there doing with the two frontier flicks.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was thinking the same thing the other day when I was watching the movie. The animation still holds up quit well after all these years. I hope bandai releases it on bd again this time with English subs like there doing with the two frontier flicks.

Me too... I'm hoping that sales of the English-subbed Macross Frontier movie Blu-Rays will be good enough that Bandai and/or Big West will start including English subs as a matter of course in their Macross HD re-releases. That way most folks who don't want to mess around with bootlegs or grey market fan-subs can get their fix and directly support the series, making it more accessible to those who don't speak/read Japanese.

(Hell, I'd give a year off my life for an English re-release of Macross Chronicle... trying to translate the thing from the original Japanese on the fly while new issues drop weekly is KILLING my eyes and deepening my translation backlog. I'd still had better than half of the first edition to go and they dropped a larger, second edition with 60% more material in my lap... currently I've got over two thousand pages in my "translation pending" and that's growing weekly.)

[Kryptt]

I was thinking the same thing the other day when I was watching the movie. The animation still holds up quit well after all these years. I hope bandai releases it on bd again this time with English subs like there doing with the two frontier flicks.

Me too... I'm hoping that sales of the English-subbed Macross Frontier movie Blu-Rays will be good enough that Bandai and/or Big West will start including English subs as a matter of course in their Macross HD re-releases. That way most folks who don't want to mess around with bootlegs or grey market fan-subs can get their fix and directly support the series, making it more accessible to those who don't speak/read Japanese.

(Hell, I'd give a year off my life for an English re-release of Macross Chronicle... trying to translate the thing from the original Japanese on the fly while new issues drop weekly is KILLING my eyes and deepening my translation backlog. I'd still had better than half of the first edition to go and they dropped a larger, second edition with 60% more material in my lap... currently I've got over two thousand pages in my "translation pending" and that's growing weekly.)

Jeez that's a lot of work. Is there someplace I can see your translations? Also do you frequent the macross world forums like me?

[Colonel Wolfe]

I don't understand why the Hate, it is a great movie. CoTB has the action and adventure kids love, sometimes when my toddler son is unable to sleep, we watch Clash of the Bionoids together and he brings up some of the social and economic concerns presented by the movie. He ranks the movie up with Ben-10 and Regular-show in terms of how much he loves it.
my CoTB conversions for Robotech, allowing players to play in the exciting bionoids world are a work in progress, trying to capture the Flavor and action of the setting has forced me to hand-write my on RPg system from the ground up.
I've seen these other versions of CoTB, including one in the original Japaneses, and I can't agree that they are as good, something is lost in these other versions, perhaps FHE's dedication to quality and bringing Forgien-language films home to a US audience.
If you can find CoTB, its the best version to see, It is a bit of a collectors item, so it can be hard to find.
Honestly the things added to the other versions of CoTB aren't really that great, so I don't know why people hate on CoTB so much, without CoTB I doubt anyone would know what all this Macros stuff is about.

Excellent Troll, colonel wolfe, double Thumbs up.

IDK what you mean?
The Movie has the epic story of Japanimation movie, but without the graphic sex and violence.
I did give it 2 thumbs up thou.
Macros 2 and Bionoids are 2 of my favorite japanimation movie-shows.

[Seto Kaiba]

Jeez that's a lot of work. Is there someplace I can see your translations? Also do you frequent the macross world forums like me?

Most of my work is "condensed" into far less wordy nuggets of hard data for use in the Macross Mecha Manual, though I am working (in what spare time I have) on a companion website for M3 that will delve into the characters, the timeline, and the other stuff that goes into the series that will feature the translations I've done. The Macross II RPG was what got me started into the whole translation hobby, so that's where most of my efforts were directed until Macross Frontier came out... by which point I'd pretty much done every noteworthy Macross II publication, initially in the name of fixing what was wrong with the RPG, and then purely for the love of the story and setting.

I wouldn't say I frequent the MacrossWorld forums, but I am on there from time to time (under the same user name).

On reflection, it's odd the way the two Macross universes and Robotech have diverged from the original series... each one went in a radically different direction. Macross II's creators brought a lot of Gundam into it, and stuck with the themes and settings of DYRL and the original series very closely. That universe stuck with the Protoculture as an alien primogenitor who was "just like us", and humanity's technological and societal progression was more conservative but also more future-oriented. The conflicts are smaller, on average, and humanity's not yet caught up to their alien allies in technological prowess.

Then there's the Macross "prime" universe, which radically reinvents its tone and concept every time, but left itself very flexible so the creators could tell whatever story they wanted within the universe. In that version of the universe, human society's based more on the modern real world, with humans recreating their brief pre-war golden age as a unified world before falling back on old bad habits like international conflict. Humans in that version of the universe seem to be more determined to apply OTM to modern technologies than to invent or more broadly apply SF technologies like we see in some parts of Macross II. That version of the ancient Protoculture's also more of a "sufficiently advanced aliens" breed whose technology can and often does stray across the line into what could almost be called magic. In some ways, humans have one-upped the Zentradi technologically, but in others they're lagging painfully behind and their wars seem to involve more actual destruction on average... probably because, in that version, the Zentradi are still a significant threat even in small numbers.

Lastly, there's the Robotech universe, which bases itself more heavily on MOSPEADA's setting than anything. It's an oddly depressing little place, reminiscent in many ways of Warhammer 40,000. Humanity's forever teetering on the brink of annihilation, with most having apparently forgotten the hard learned lessons of mutual tolerance and understanding from their first alien war, and the rest trying to give peace a chance and failing spectacularly because they tried to trust an assortment of evil alien robots to whom backstabbing is a spectator sport. Even their victories are Pyrrhic at best, and the resulting loss of life has left their society almost entirely militarized. The vast majority of humans don't seem to have a clue how their advanced technology works, because a small group of tech-savants jealously guard their knowledge of it, and the society as a whole seems to be clinging to a stagnant culture that hasn't produced anything since before Earth went to pot for the first time. They advance in some ways, but the general technological and societal progression is backwards... while they become more and more like their enemies. In that universe, it's not a question of IF human civilization will fall... it's a question of "How many years does it have left?"... and that's dark, man.

[ScottBernard]

The various Japanese Macross series as well Super Dimensional Cavalry and Mospeada also had lots of nudity. Something our country is afraid of so it all got cut out.

[Kryptt]

Jeez that's a lot of work. Is there someplace I can see your translations? Also do you frequent the macross world forums like me?

Most of my work is "condensed" into far less wordy nuggets of hard data for use in the Macross Mecha Manual, though I am working (in what spare time I have) on a companion website for M3 that will delve into the characters, the timeline, and the other stuff that goes into the series that will feature the translations I've done. The Macross II RPG was what got me started into the whole translation hobby, so that's where most of my efforts were directed until Macross Frontier came out... by which point I'd pretty much done every noteworthy Macross II publication, initially in the name of fixing what was wrong with the RPG, and then purely for the love of the story and setting.

I wouldn't say I frequent the MacrossWorld forums, but I am on there from time to time (under the same user name).

On reflection, it's odd the way the two Macross universes and Robotech have diverged from the original series... each one went in a radically different direction. Macross II's creators brought a lot of Gundam into it, and stuck with the themes and settings of DYRL and the original series very closely. That universe stuck with the Protoculture as an alien primogenitor who was "just like us", and humanity's technological and societal progression was more conservative but also more future-oriented. The conflicts are smaller, on average, and humanity's not yet caught up to their alien allies in technological prowess.

Then there's the Macross "prime" universe, which radically reinvents its tone and concept every time, but left itself very flexible so the creators could tell whatever story they wanted within the universe. In that version of the universe, human society's based more on the modern real world, with humans recreating their brief pre-war golden age as a unified world before falling back on old bad habits like international conflict. Humans in that version of the universe seem to be more determined to apply OTM to modern technologies than to invent or more broadly apply SF technologies like we see in some parts of Macross II. That version of the ancient Protoculture's also more of a "sufficiently advanced aliens" breed whose technology can and often does stray across the line into what could almost be called magic. In some ways, humans have one-upped the Zentradi technologically, but in others they're lagging painfully behind and their wars seem to involve more actual destruction on average... probably because, in that version, the Zentradi are still a significant threat even in small numbers.

Lastly, there's the Robotech universe, which bases itself more heavily on MOSPEADA's setting than anything. It's an oddly depressing little place, reminiscent in many ways of Warhammer 40,000. Humanity's forever teetering on the brink of annihilation, with most having apparently forgotten the hard learned lessons of mutual tolerance and understanding from their first alien war, and the rest trying to give peace a chance and failing spectacularly because they tried to trust an assortment of evil alien robots to whom backstabbing is a spectator sport. Even their victories are Pyrrhic at best, and the resulting loss of life has left their society almost entirely militarized. The vast majority of humans don't seem to have a clue how their advanced technology works, because a small group of tech-savants jealously guard their knowledge of it, and the society as a whole seems to be clinging to a stagnant culture that hasn't produced anything since before Earth went to pot for the first time. They advance in some ways, but the general technological and societal progression is backwards... while they become more and more like their enemies. In that universe, it's not a question of IF human civilization will fall... it's a question of "How many years does it have left?"... and that's dark, man.

I thought I'd seen you before. As for RT being darker I noticed the same thing. No hope at all just a slow progression to extinction. It's a shame HG can't get real anime pros to continue the mess we in the west call RT. When TSC ended I thought huh???! It's sentinels all over again with another show that's supposed to jump start RT only to finish prematurely.

I'm looking forward to your companion site to the M manual which has been very helpful to me. A lot of the info there is new to me so thank you.

[Seto Kaiba]

The various Japanese Macross series as well Super Dimensional Cavalry and Mospeada also had lots of nudity. [...]

Uh... No. With the possible exception of Southern Cross, none of the Japanese originals had "lots of nudity". Nor, for that matter, did any of the Macross sequels. Of the scenes cut during their adaptation into Robotech, very few scenes were cut because of nudity... partial or otherwise. Most of the cuts were because of the more excessively gory or graphic deaths.

On that front, all that was really present in the original three shows was Minmay's very brief shower scene in Macross, Jeanne's several (more explicit) shower scenes in Southern Cross, and that one protracted communal bathing scene in MOSPEADA. Those scenes were all reinserted into Robotech as never-before-seen* content in the "Remastered" edition. As far as Macross's sequels go, you can practically count all of the "nude scenes" in the entire franchise on one hand.

* Only by the few people who hadn't already seen the originals in some form or other.

[...] Something our country is afraid of so it all got cut out.

Eh... were it not for Revell poking its oar in and trying to use Harmony Gold's WIP dub of Macross to promote its failing Transformers knockoff, the shows would probably have been released with far less severe cuts. The decision to stitch the three together and retarget them to a much younger audience on broadcast television meant they had to contend with American broadcast standards.

I thought I'd seen you before. As for RT being darker I noticed the same thing. No hope at all just a slow progression to extinction.

Yeah, it's darker by far than either Macross universe. Darker even than Gundam, though it isn't quite as honest about its grimdark-ness. Once they did Prelude and started in with the "can't trust aliens" schtick, I realized the UEEF had gone full Imperial Guard... they've already got the laser rifles and the legion of mooks who rely on Zerg-rush tactics to get the job done, all they're missing is a Commissar and the occasional shout of "FOR THE EMPEROR!". It really is jarring when you compare it to the original MOSPEADA, where the ending was more a cautiously optimistic ending that combined a healthy dose of "We might be bastards too, huh?" for the recapture forces and the restoration of peace on Earth. Or with Macross, where the ending is also cautiously optimistic (which turns full-blown optimistic with its sequels).

It's a shame HG can't get real anime pros to continue the mess we in the west call RT. When TSC ended I thought huh???! It's sentinels all over again with another show that's supposed to jump start RT only to finish prematurely. [...]

That would cost money... and if there's one thing Harmony Gold's staff has been very open about in recent years, it's that Harmony Gold doesn't want to spend money on Robotech. They were hoping the live-action movie would turn out to be a big hit (instead of dying messily in preproduction) and were basing their plans for the future entirely on that foregone conclusion... hence the Shadow Chronicles being stuck as a 1-and-done abortion instead of the 3 or 4-part OVA the original plan had called for.

I'm looking forward to your companion site to the M manual which has been very helpful to me. A lot of the info there is new to me so thank you.

Don't hold yer breath for that one... between my day job and the sheer volume of stuff, it'll be a while before I've got that ready to roll. There are updates pending for M3 in the near-ish future though.