Forums of the Megaverse®

I've reposted most of the important stuff on 27 Apr 2016 23:13, should you not want to read through this entire thread, skip to that post first



I haven't posted in a while so I thought I would try to create an after the bomb dog pack for the empire of humanity to use. But I need help! Sooo...here is what I'm thinking:
-Helecopter & military bicycles for transport
-led by a human in type2 armor with a particle beam cannon (or just a bigger/better laser rifle)
-An AI security robot (friendlies are tagged so no problems). He's mostly there to guard them at night or provide distractions.
~8 dogs with +20 bio-e from subservience. Advanced vision makes them excellent snipers.
-Wolfhounds: crushing strength, predator burst, extraordinary speed, advanced smell - with full biped, hands & speech puts me down 10 bioe.. I'm using guerrilla warrior background which seems appropriate to get the 10 bioe). PS ~27 (4d6+12 punch, carry 300x27=8,100 pounds). Spd~75 (~85kmph). Its probably worth taking diet: carnivore in order to get extra physical endurance for the run speed. And when I tihnk about it that way, vestigial ears are probably worth it to get advanced hearing.

In regards to breed, Komondor’s have a natural armor rating of 8..which is 40% better than nothing for long term assignments. ...But I would end up equiping them with laser rifles which seems too human-like. The Mastiffs are a good choice but I went with wolfhounds for speed. Its probably easy for the empire to produce some special class 4 hard armor for the dogs...the weight isn't going to slow them down.

What weapons do you give a dogpack with crushing PS? I'm thinking special bows (with a 27x500=13,500 pound pull?) for distance and brass knuckles possibly a club, staff, hammer or axe for melee. Climbing claws might be okay. Anything which can't be effectively used against them should they drop them during combat..unlike big guns. With the level of technology in the books, giving them really heavy guns or energy weapons is a possibility ...but I don't like the idea. It doesn't fit the fluff...which I feel high powered bows would. ...or they can stick to using cars & trees as weapons. What do you think? Perhaps there is absolutely no reason to have crushing strength, I could always go with beastly...even with a PS of 27 (carry 2700 pounds and lift twice that)...or even brute (27x20=carry 540 pounds).

really depends on a lot of things.
I personally like the "Bazel" solution in one of the david weber novel series.
he uses an arbalest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest but loads and arms it using a "goatsfoot" like a light crossbow.

his other weapon is basically a 2 handed sword he wields like a hand and a half ( or bastard sword) some of his "relatives" also use things like axes that should be large 2handed weapons 1 handed and similar.

when you are talking super strong chars I could actually see them using "oversized" or at least over heavy weapons to get harder hits in

Thank you for the ideas!

...but went with armor & metal pipes instead (there was a reference to this in supernatural strength). Here is what you get with a very balanced Mastiff build, I like it much better so consider the wolfhounds and Komondor’s not used. Fortunately when you are building a unit you have a few more skills than when you are only building one PC...because this build doesn't get many skills.

An after the bomb dog pack for the empire of humanity
-Helecopter
-led by a human combat medic in type2 armor with a pulse laser rifle particle beam cannon (or just a bigger/better laser rifle)
-An AI security robot (friendlies are tagged so no problems). He's mostly there to guard them at night.
-8 Mastiff's.

Mastiff with guerrilla warrior background:
SL10->8 = ~5'4"
Features: Looks none, full hands & biped, partial speech
Powers: advanced vision, leaping standard. +crushing strength, predator burst, extraordinary speed, advanced smell, advanced hearing
Special: +10Bioe=>+10PP – which I’m saying nets autododge, (for comparison: taking PP twice would be plus two attacks)
Disadvantages: diet: carnivore, –subservience

Average Spd=~15+6breed+2background+~21extspd+10running skill=54. (~60kmph), could be about 20 more with good rolls.
Average Ps=~15+6breed+2background+2 size level+~7skills=34…? 5d6+20 punch, higher with good rolls. (lift 17,000 / carry10,200)
Average PP= 15+10(bio-e)+1skills=26 or +6s/p/d

Guerrilla warrior (so this build can be duplicated)
Primary Skills: Wilderness Survival, gymnastics (includes prowl), math: basic, radio: basic, 4 Military Skills: (paramedic, tracking, detect concealment & traps OR ambush, trapping[m] OR camouflage[f]), 3 Physical Skills (boxing, wrestling, running), 2 Pilot Skills (land navigation[f] OR navigation[m], sailing), & 3 WPs (Archery, HTH: Assassin).
Secondary Skills: 5: baseball, swimming, preserve food[f] OR herbal medicine[m], sign language, +1 (barbering, basic mechanics, ropeworks, carpentry, blacksmithing, anthropology (societies), antiquarian (pre-crash), and sewing)
Contacts: Familiar with the contested borderlands around the Empire of Humanity, and knows quite a few of the guerrilla groups and/or other dogpacks.

Equipment:
-Forest camouflaged class 4 hard armor: AR17, sdc280, 20 pounds. Helmet contains Thermo optics & a scrambled radio.
-2 steel pipes which can be combined into a staff (for jumping). Baseball gives +3s/p (play with grenades!)
-a very strong bow and reusable arrows (a few special arrows each). Much longer range than normal due to crushing strength and advanced vision
-pouches & webbing: smoke/sleep/smell (for tracking) grenades, misc: map, survival knife (attaches to staff), trapkit or camokit.
-backpack: food (jerky & meat potatoes), water filter, water canteen, camo tarponcho, small heat reflective bivy, camo-net (fishing/bed/combat), rope, shovel head (attaches to staff), etc.
-solar powered compass watch with rad detector wrist band (changes color), ranger bead wristband

Notes:
-combat style: autododge as necessary while Parkour (running/leaping) through forest/ruins & shooting bow (1d6x10+20 damage), use grenades liberally.
-The human medic has the following skills in order to take care of their troops (and make them reliant on the human): Intelligence, cooking (many meat sauces), demolitions (for taking out large targets), dentistry (), disguise, interrogation, etc.

Learning Skills:
-For level 3, they become navy seals and get advanced swimming.
-For level 6, intelligence.

How would your group fare against these hunters?
What improvements do you have?
Can they successfully protect humanity?

I've tossed the robot, and added in an actual medic instead, now the human can have any specialty.

The medic:
Wensleydales SHEEP:
SL15->8 (~5’4”), full hands & biped, partial speech, no looks.
Disadvantages: -domesticated -herbivore
Powers: disease resistant, Brute strength (10), Extra: MA(5), PE (5) & PB (10).
Psionics: Psychic diagnosis (10), Advanced Cell reader (15), Psychic surgery (15).
-BACKGROUND: Academic underground, Apprenticeship: healer. Loads of skills including: barbering, dentistry, cooking...

While not quite as loyal as the dogs this sheep is still domesticated and obeys orders..even if that means that their patients needs are not put first. The combination of extra PE & disease resistance makes it possible for this medic to worry less about infection than others...they can treat sick patients without getting sick and dying, which means they can go places others can not. Psi diagnosis is fast and accurate, psi surgery doesn't require tools or a hospital. Cell reader increases their medical abilities. Brute strength and extra PE mean they can pickup injured easily and go on doctoring for hours. ...and lets face it, who doesn't want a charming medic (they get 1d6 from the breed and another 1d4+4 from extra PB, so the average PB is close to supermodel and they are very charming). And you get Extra MA so everyone likes you and your patients might even follow their doctors orders.

Equipment:
-Type 2 exoskeleton, in order to let them keep up to the dogs when running on the ground. under-wrist heavy stun blasters. No energy pistol.
-sleep hypo (100 doses, doesn't use a needle), may carry an extra bottle of doses. Its quite small and easily concealable.
-grenades: smoke & sleep gas.
-wristband radiation detector.

Notes:
-a non combatant, parry with forearms, underarm stun blast, or kick in melee (lower body exoskeleton helps).

What are your Thoughts?
-Invisible Haze may allow you to help a patient during battle but there may often be enemies greater than 120' away. Or otherwise avoid combat... I considered telepathic speech, but decided against it for fluff reasons. Suggestion is good on patients for things like "sleep", "this won't hurt a bit" as well as in social situations, even in combat you can try to get enemies to "protect me/him (the injured dog)" or "bring him here". Although a dog would be more loyal and have a run speed to equal the rest of the pack you would loose disease resistance which is perhaps essential..as you don't need to have multiple dogs, should they get sick and die (and I suppose the dogs don't get extra PB as well, but I really just took that fun and it fits with the character concept).
-Since they aren't engaging in combat, they could help direct the troops, but perhaps they shouldn't be in charge as they are only domesticated, not subservient. Although they do have lots of skills if you wanted to put them in charge.

[edit] Equipment: Medkit. Stungun, Tranquilizer pistol & grenade launcher (sleep gas).
[edit2] switched suggestion for psi surgery
[edit 2016!] stungun sticks and tranquilizer pistol removed. In battle they can throw grenades, use wrist blasters, punch & parry. Could be more ion or lightning style.

Alrighty so keeping with the theme of domesticated animals, we need 3 crew for our whirlybird.

Rhode Island Red CHICKEN:
-SL7 long build =~5’7"
-Features: Full speech, biped, arms with hands, looks partial
-Powers: NAR14 +60sdc (30,scales), ultraviolet vision (5), advanced vision (5) & Glide (15).
-Disadvantages: domesticated +5, herbivores +5
BACKGROUND: Guerrilla warrior (slightly modified, same number of skills) +10bioe
Primary Skills: Wilderness Survival, literacy, math: basic, radio: basic, 3 Physical Skills (HTH Assassin, aerial acrobatics), 5 Pilot Skills (aircraft mechanics, pilot: helicopter, pilot: jet, navigation, read sensory), electrical engineer & 3 WPs (pistol, energy rifle, vehicle weapon systems).
Secondary Skills: 5: sign language, ID plants, farming, pilot: farm vehicle, herbal medicine

They have each chosen one skill and are currently learning: Astronomy, Brewing & Preserve food. They want to learn Botany after that.

Equipment:
-Jetpack & Energy rifle. Think about it! This would be soo cool! Combine "The Rocketeer" movie with steering and glide using their normal wings...
-Machine pistol with a UV laser pointer (so they can see where its going to hit and others can not). 300' range, payload: 60/15, 4d6/1d4x10.
-A survival knife, canteen, cereal bars, herbal medkit, emergency bivy, UV headlight.

These chickens live to fly, farm and obey the human who created them (not everyone lives with and follows the orders of their God). Since they are chickens, they get their hearts desire..even more than humans they want to fly. They probably even get some bonus to fly. With their natural armor and glide ability, even if the chopper is shot down, they could survive the blast and/or glide to safety. Ultraviolet vision means they can see the targeting lasers that the chopper uses, possibly giving them a bonus to hit. They might also be able to guide missiles with UV lasers manually, since they can see in that spectrum. There are probably a bunch more tricks to be had with the ability to see in a spectrum others can't. Likely the choppers searchlight is UV, allowing them to see you but not the other way around. Generations of being farm animals seems to have drawn them all to farming. These chickens were born and bred to do what they do best..they are incredibly happy with their lot in life - they are just as loyal as the dogs.

Any suggestions for these birds? Gear for pilots?

[edit] I dropped running to get a better HTH skill, which also adds WP Paired, the chickens will be using a pistol & survival knife.
[edit] Paratroopers use 2 machine pistols attached by a chord so they can't drop them in flight.

Next up is the cows! Every human needs about half a dozen cattle on their farm. These here are genius cattle!

Holstein COW:
SL12->11 (~6’4”).
-Partial hands & looks, Full Biped & speech. Domesticated
+Brute Strength, Natural mechanical talent, large scale construction, Extra: IQ (10), advanced touch (5)
+Psionics: Natural Mechanical Genius (5) – diagnosis only, Technomind (10)
-Background: Academic underground (+2 IQ), Apprenticeship: armorer, artesian, electrician, mechanic, weaponsmith...
-IQ=+9: species +2, background +2, Extra: +5

Equipment:
-horn sensors: To make them better at their chosen profession...in general about the same as the otters sensor whiskers.
-Type 2 exo-skeleton (no energy pistol)

Combat notes:
The cows are non combatants...they provide there farm with the tools to make the world a better place and a wonderful home to do it from. They prepare for the day there home is attacked by an overwhelming force in multiple ways. They tend to be humble. They are more likely to use the multitool for a forcefield than a laser sword or electrical field.

Thoughts:
-Although they create the highest technology in the world, I still want the entire farm to have that mad max power level and feel...so we have to be careful.

[edit]
-removed:
-Simple Spidersilk robe
-Nanite multi-tool & spare eclip. They only need one tool as it can be anything. Needs technomind and a vast IQ to operate as it has no controls.
-Tiny computer with library: To make them better at their chosen profession, using technomind to save and retrieve data, somewhere on there person.

So, lets see at what one single human can do. You start with a single Egg. After some time, you have a villa with ~24 mutant animals. The away team consists of: 8 mastiff marines, 3 chicken pilots & 1 sheep medic. The villa team consists of 5 cows (armorer, artesian, electrician, mechanic, weaponsmith), a sheep medic, 3 chicken farmers , 2 more mastiff marines (for security) & possibly 1 normal looking dog with massive psionics. Technology and amenities are extremely high quality due to the cows. While all the animals are loyal, the dogs are subservient and the chickens aren't far behind.

I'm surprised by how well the chickens turned out, I really didn't expect them to be so good. NAR14 makes such a huge difference. They are possibly more powerful than the dogs as they can really take a beating. I switched out the energy gun to a machine pistol... It would give them a kinetic burst weapon and has a better range & payload than the energy gun (and shooting down the range may be longer as well). Hmmm you might be able to get some interesting ammo as well. The genius cattle allow you to do things like add a stun feature to the energy rifle, (as I expect its ion).

I haven't been able to make a useful otter yet, but I feel they have potential.

Here is where I was with the otter, should anyone be able to make anything good out of it:

OTTER:
-Bioe:40+20=60-20=40..Guerilla warrior for +10bioE..?
-SL6+1=7 (long=~5’7”), full biped (10)& hands(5), looks=none, telepathic speech(5).
-domestication, carnivore
+Advanced vision, sensor whiskers (5), hold breath (5), +35

I was thinking invisible haze plus perhaps extra PP and making them something like a navy seal...with a speargun/energy weapon. But I don't think I'd choose one over a Mastiff, so until I do they stay on the drawing board.

Can anyone come up with anything they think is good?

Its possible to switch mastiff for St. Bernard, there is little difference other than switching jumping to internal compass. It might be worthwhile having two in the away team so they can split up into two teams each having a dog with internal compass. Although the Mastiffs carry a compass...so perhaps we just leave it alone. Deleted as they loose crushing strength...

Its also possible to create an airforce from chickens with jetpacks. Each human would be in charge of a squad, with the human in 2xj flying power armor (mutants of the Yucatan).

My initial thoughts were that the two guards who stayed at home would be otters, since they have sensor whiskers. Although having the ability to replace injured troops is the way it currently works...since I don't think the otters I came up with are as good as dogs.

In the land based squad, the human could be in the type 1 or 2 armor and the sheep could be in class 4 armor with a lower exoskeleton built in, allowing them to move as fast as the rest of the group.

At the villa, the Holstein could pilot tanks if they needed to defend the place from intruders.

My thoughts were the human would be normal with a single gene splice from a pig making them immune to radiation...which is how they survived. The gene gets passed on to their descendants, but other than that they are normal.

Missions for the empire would be things like the wolf barbarians have enslaved 5,000 Wensleydale sheep, what can we do about it? The empire has to be careful to never sacrifice humans, as they are outnumbered and humans are an endangered species! So each human has to have a loyal following of animals to do their bidding and keep them alive at all costs. I think this thread is rather successful at that.

What do you think?

A mechanized unit could be a human in type 1 armor with a bunch of the AI robots linked up. The human would designate the targets and the tactics and the robots would carry out the work. Hmm perhaps 8-12 robots per human.

We could combine a few of these to get a platoon of 4 squads:
1-type 1 plus a robot squad (heavy hitters)
2-type 2 leading a dogpack
3-type 2 leading a dogpack
4-type 2xj leading chickens (scouts)

Wow I should grab these books as well. Great stuff imaginative and Sdc to boot.

Thanks.

You really only need the main book, this isn't rifts.

One of the things that differentiates After the Bomb from other games is there isn't a good fast healing method. If you get injured for any reason its a problem. There isn't any core healing. Although 12% of humans are HU mutants, there is only one example of that in the book, the leader of the empire of humanity, who you would never meet. Humans can have human psychic powers, which would include psychic healing, but thats from HU as well. Magic and time travel float around as well, but its not common. While these ideas are there, the setting is intended to be low powered, very much like mad max with mutant animals. Sure theres the empire has laser weapons (which technically aren't as good as guns in range, payload or damage), but there are so few of them they can't risk themselves. Theres more mutant animals riding giant insects or flying dirigibles or biplanes.

This means making the world a better place is a hard job, especially when they keep failing, they end up being the villains. With the world sparsely populated, an empire is less than 30,000 humans with 9 mutant animals each. A standard plot should be something like: well intended humans try to do something to better the world, then it goes wrong and all the mutant animals hate them more. For example, the wolf barbarians are enslaving all sorts of sheep, lets create a virus to kill them and leave the sheep unharmed (because they outnumber us up the wazoo and we are going extinct)...which goes out of control becoming known as the rodent plague before being stopped. A satellite intended to provide limitless energy? Used as a laser weapon by a tyrant cat on its enemies...you just need to make sure humans get blamed for everything. Trying to keep human genes pure and continue your race by cloning yourselves, all the clones end up sharing a group mind and eventually go insane and kill everyone near them for weeks until they are finally taken down by 3 eyed mystic elephants from India.

There were a bunch of domesticated animals I didn't use, because they weren't unique enough or better than the ones I picked.

Hmm the robot squad would be good for scavenging...they and the human would be immune to radiation.

G wrote:Thanks.

You really only need the main book, this isn't rifts.

One of the things that differentiates After the Bomb from other games is there isn't a good fast healing method. If you get injured for any reason its a problem. There isn't any core healing. Although 12% of humans are HU mutants, there is only one example of that in the book, the leader of the empire of humanity, who you would never meet. Humans can have human psychic powers, which would include psychic healing, but thats from HU as well. Magic and time travel float around as well, but its not common. While these ideas are there, the setting is intended to be low powered, very much like mad max with mutant animals. Sure theres the empire has laser weapons (which technically aren't as good as guns in range, payload or damage), but there are so few of them they can't risk themselves. Theres more mutant animals riding giant insects or flying dirigibles or biplanes. Which makes making the world a better place a hard job, especially when they keep failing, they end up being the villains. With the world sparsely populated, an empire is less than 30,000 humans with 9 mutant animals each. A standard plot should be something like: well intended humans try to do something to better the world, then it goes wrong and all the mutant animals hate them more. For example, the wolf barbarians are enslaving all sorts of sheep, lets create a virus to kill them and leave the sheep unharmed (because they outnumber us up the wazoo and we are going extinct)...which goes out of control becoming known as the rodent plague before being stopped. A satellite intended to provide limitless energy? Used as a laser weapon by a tyrant cat on its enemies...you just need to make sure humans get blamed for everything. Trying to keep human genes pure and continue your race by cloning yourselves, all the clones end up sharing a group mind and eventually go insane and kill everyone near them for weeks until they are finally taken down by 3 eyed mystic elephants from India.

There were a bunch of domesticated animals I didn't use, because they weren't unique enough or better than the ones I picked.

Hmm the robot squad would be good for scavenging...they and the human would be immune to radiation.

The problem of healing is an issue with all the Palladium books, with they way they're written nothing has the capacity to heal and everything requires someone with at least first-aid or paramedic skill treating them for even the most minor of injuries if they want to recover any lost SDC or HP which is ridiculous. Everything living has the ability to heal but the basic rate of healing isn't given the best you can consider is that people at a minimum recover at the non-professional treatment rate.

The problem of healing is an issue with all the Palladium books, with they way they're written nothing has the capacity to heal and everything requires someone with at least first-aid or paramedic skill treating them for even the most minor of injuries if they want to recover any lost SDC or HP which is ridiculous. Everything living has the ability to heal but the basic rate of healing isn't given the best you can consider is that people at a minimum recover at the non-professional treatment rate.

Nothing has the ability to heal in ATB...nothing in the core book at least..mostly. The book mentions that magic and psionic healing are more rare in ATB than other PB games. But the basis of the game is very open its meant to be fly by the seat of your pants make it up as you go. In one game a GM had given us a one use miracle cure that would have unknown side effects if we used it, but it was meant for an NPC we were saving just in case anything went wrong. In the main book page 201 brother bill (a mutant dog) has psionic bio-regeneration (not printed in ATB), which can keep the bad guy alive should he get wounded and escape. Although personally I think ATB should be a bit grittier if he was wounded dealing with PCs, I'd prefer he have a scar next time he meets the PCs....and have given him a different psionic power. Perhaps control dogs...or one of many other psi powers.

As you can see from the Empire (of farm) troops I created, every member of the away team has medical skills and a most if not all of the villa staff would as well. The chickens were a really interesting find with NAR14. If the dogs weren't subservient I would consider replacing them with chickens.

That said, last thing I had posted was platoon size. but I had no platoon leader... 12% of empire humans have mutant powers. Which I notice is lower than the 15-20% on average. 15% are psionic (mostly non OCC)...not sure if thats the same 15% or a different 15%...So out of 10 humans, one could be a mutant human, one could be a psionic & another could be superpowered. That ratio is rather high, but it means that each platoon would generally have one special human. Lets put them in charge of the platoon. I think human psionics are the way to go, they are lower powered than superpowers and human mutant isn't special enough in a game of mutant animals (besides which all my humans are sort of mutants since I gave them immune to radiation, which incidentally helps solve the population problem, since they have no trouble reproducing...) and I *plang* declare all their descendants to be normal, non pig people.

So 1 psionic in charge of each platoon (~40 individuals)...Astral travel will give troops a huge advantage and then they get some healing psi (yay), and some other interesting powers (perhaps possession).

Moving up to company size (~160) , you'd have 4 psionic humans under you (controlling a platoon each), so lets make that one a superpowered human. Given how low powered this game is, most powers work well. At this group size we can add in another squad of fighter pilots to give the company the air support that lets humans control the air...I suppose they can be a squad of chickens, it won't throw my ratio of dogs to other animals off. These will be the most experienced pilots (after they have moved up from squad level jetpack or chopper pilots).

Remember, they are all in the field to do something so decide in advance as a GM or try to figure it out as a PC. They will have support should they be engaged. They will be using cover, concealment and other proper tactics that the players won't. They will prefer to engage at long range because they can and it may keep them safer. They will call in air strikes and/or artillery support. They do this for a living and they live to tell the tail!

Anyone have any ideas for the psionic dog?

had idea for a dog ...a normal looking dog (a lab/shepered mix) he has mental speech and teeth and advance smell all things a dog would have...background would be academic underground.....

hollowecho wrote:had idea for a dog ...a normal looking dog (a lab/shepered mix) he has mental speech and teeth and advance smell all things a dog would have...background would be academic underground.....

Its very interesting to note that the books don't have a mutt listed as a type, so technically you could mix different breeds to end up with whatever you like...although there are some throwbacks and chimeras. Hmmmm, perhaps if you make a chimera out of a dog you can make another animal subservient...but its not worth taking the risk by making a lot of them, best to stick to proven loyal breeds. Although to get back to your posted topic, I'm not sure how useful the academic background is...because I don't think you posted enough to give me a feel for what you intended the character to be. Could you please post a bit more detail?

With a normal looking dog you should have about 100 bio-e to spend on whatever. Plan for some extra bio-e from subservient. I tried putting one together and ended up with 115bioe...but I wasn't that happy with the result so I wanted to see what a few different people could put together without any influence from me. Please post some simple write-ups. Here is what I was using for some other posts...just listing enough to give everyone a feel.

Size level:
Human features:
Powers:
Disadvantages:
Psionics:
Breed notes:
Skills of note:
Job:
Other:

While people contemplate posting psychic dogs, I'll move on to expand on the empire of humanity a bit more...

Some people like living in technoville, the capital of the empire of humanity...for example the leader of the squad of robots (who perhaps doesn't trust mutant animals), or mutant that leads a company...possibly the psychics that lead each platoon. What can one find in the empire city? Well for starters free childcare, remember that the empire is trying to increase birth rates, so they will take care of your kids as much as yo want..even 24/7. So drop them off after birth (unless you are using an egg to avoid messy pregnancy), and pick them up when they are 3 if you want. Skip all that time where you would loose sleep and/or it would be no fun. Or simply visit them whenever you like up to age 18. They don't even need to live with you, as a matter of fact, its better for the morale of your mutant animal troops if they don't see you raising children (it makes humans more godlike in their eyes).

Humans in general will learn some skills in leadership...the control animal psionic power & Extra MA are both excellent uses of 10BioE, which they can use on domesticated and/or subservient animals for even more control (or everyone in the case of MA). The townie background would work well, giving you an extra 2MA. Oddly enough the holstein, dogs & rhode island chickens all have MA bonuses. ...so all the animals around you are going to be enjoyable to be around.

Lets give the sheep medics a very solid metal staff that contains either a high tech hypodermic needle with a bunch of uses of sleep poison or perhaps a dart (that needs to be changed manually) on one side and a stungun on the other. Its just as interesting as stungun in one hand and dart pistol on the other...a bit lower tech (no ranged attack) and adds a melee weapon making the whole combination a bit more durable. Splits into 2 for storage (and could be used as two clubs). I like the feel of this better for the setting and from a style perspective.

What other areas of the empire of humanity need to be expanded upon...? As you can see, I really don't think they need a slave labour force.

One of the many problems the empire has is numbers. They are outnumbered so much that leading a squad of mutant animals often ends up with them still being WAY outnumbered. For that reason the loylans of RIFTER 29 were bred. These 2’6” Subservient armored warriors require almost no resources to become battle ready and can be grown to maturity very quickly.

The human “Swarmlord” has the healer apprenticeship and controls up to 1000 loylans (of perhaps 20 breeds). They are constantly producing new breeds in an attempt to find the best one and/or combination. Each breed wants to prove that their breed is better than the next. Each swarmlord has a machine is the same size as a normal EGG (it fits in a backpack!), producing 50 larvae at a time, which can be stored or hatched. They are all male, so they can not reproduce (the human is their queen). If this were a PC, I might go with one new breed per level.

My example breed: he second generation loylan is improved over the first in several ways: first they were ALL genetically engineered subservient (+15 BioE) recognizing humans as their superiors, then the psionic claws were removed (+25BioE), they were given wings (+BioE) and full hands (+BioE) so they can use a bow. They have a wide variety of insect abilities (you are essentially creating a 2.5 foot flying ant from Mutants in Orbit).

To fit this into what I already created, each psionic platoon leader could have the healer apprenticeship and be a swarmlord, using them to support their squads as needed. Thoughts?

[edit] FYI, they look like small robots (NAR11) & speak with a proper accent.

The Holstein need weapons and since they won't normally be using them, they are getting energy pistols laser rods which can cut/wield/blast useful in the type of construction tasks they are doing all day long...with DNA coded grips! This makes sense, since they are very smart and would have higher technological weapons.

On that same thought process, I've kept the Empire of Humanity with perhaps technology that is too low...they need some higher technological items that don't use many resources and work for long periods of time. Any ideas?

I'm thinking solar powered somethings hooked to an AI computer. Perhaps gliders or balloons with laserguns and 3APM. They only need a 500' ceiling and 30mph speed to take care of most threats. [no longer necessary due to lower tech and easier option of creating loylans).

...or perhaps when you have less resources you build a few very high tech items instead of many lowish tech items? I could see that being how the poor AI robots in the books are made.

So what does my outpost of humanity end up looking like?

21 humans (a company): 1 mutant, 4 psychics & 16 normal people who are immune to radiation.
The central outpost (company HQ) is the home of the mutant and contains the air force. For example purposes the mutant has APS: Light & frequency absorption (with lets say the solar satellite from the module in the main book). The outpost contains the elderly (~10?) raising and teaching the children (~40, there can’t be too many if we want sustainable growth, but perhaps we revisit this thought and increase this number drastically later). This means every family of 2 adults have had about 4 children each. Lets say each elderly person has ~10 animals and each child is either assigned or creates one mutant animal.
A little distance from the outpost there are four forts (platoon HQs) forming a square, which are the homes of the psychics and their swarms.
Each fort is surrounded by 4 villa’s (squad HQs) with a farm (which would have underground bunkers constructed by the swarm). There are 16 farms in total.

…While that looks ok, the population is way too small, soooo multiply all the numbers x4. a mated younger and older couple are at each fortified villa/farm. Each farm villa becomes a fort with a platoon, each fort becomes a base & the outpost becomes a town. We now have a battalion OR 3 company shifts of 8 hours each with an extra shift for when we need extra firepower. It also makes training much easier. The battalion is commanded by a 300 year old full conversion cyborg from before the bomb, who is a master of military tactics, who will live another 300 years.


Population: 4,471x4=17,884 (<2,000 without the swarms, which just barely qualifies as a town).
Humans: 21+10+40=71x4=284
Upraised Animals: 400x4=1600. Math: 13 people (4 have 10-20 robots each) x~20 animals=~260, 10elderly x10animals=100, 40 for the children.
Insects: ~4000x4=16,000 (they are small and don’t take up much space..revisit food consumption later)
Other: Very few (<80?) of the animals will not be mastiff dogs, Wensleydale sheep, Rhode Island Red Chickens or Holstein cows. These would be the staff of the mutants, psychics or the elderly. Perhaps two squads of high level DOMESTICATED pigs with rad immunity for scavenging high rad areas that were created by some of the elderly and helped build the empire. Almost no animals will not be domesticated or subservient (perhaps a single spidergoat to create clothing? But that’s really about it, for security purposes). There are NO animals passing as humans.


Technology & resources:
->A mixture of ultra high tech and no tech..in order to use the fewest resources possible.
-the bows & armor of the dogs can be made from insect resin. The military fortifications are as well, although the town was created by the Holstein.
-the regular clothes for the humans are all made from spider silk, a sort of armor, so they are never completely unprotected.
-Genetically Engineered Plants p192: gas vine (fuel for jetpacks & copters), meat potato, serum plant, guardian ivy, everfruit tree
-1 Satelite & 1 shadowfade style spaceship (?, probably unnecessary)
-16 farms each with 1 AI & solar power generator. There would be tons of food for export.
-An airforce at the town
-The city could have a forcefield..the farms probably not.

General notes:
Totally self-sufficient, raising families in fortified compounds between battles.
Everyone is required to be armed at all times.
Protection of humans always comes first.

Thoughts?

The children each get a dog from birth (created by the parents to protect and care for them) and as they grow older they create animals themselves. I expect they would each have a small AI on them.

If you are a genius cattle what would you create? You probably have limited resources...but tons of knowledge.

If you were the military cyborg in charge of the town, what would you do with all the mutants that come flocking to your outpost of humanity? Some will be on the run from wolf barbarian slavers or worse, others will be spies and saboteurs!
-Do you want to create a Shanty town around and outside of your fortified farms in order to provide yet another barrier to anyone who would attack you while caring for these mutants?
-You can turn them away, which will create bad will towards humans.
-Create a separate city beside each of your towns (because they outnumber you at least 10:1) to send them too?
-What do you do with the human looking animals who try to get in? I suppose you could use them for PR...when other animals want to get in they have to meet with the second class citizen human looking mutants to weed them out...but to do that you need to trust them.

I really like this model was thinking of a human family with their farm of mutant animals. And with high tech a cottage 3d print shop for basic things and trades excess production from it for other little farms production. The Johnson family who does chemicals ( everything from cleaning supplies to gun powder to bio deisel.) The franklins have a little mine going and ship raw metals and alloys. The Quins build all the robots here about.

I'm glad you realized some value from this thread. Its been a while since I thought about it.

3D printers for the humans definitely has the right feel, they can produce anything in small quantities at a high cost.

Thank you for a mental kick start.

Its been a while since I thought about this!

I've decided on a non core modification to the sheep, switching out suggestion for Psi surgery.

Updated:
The standard human has a villa with ~24 mutant animals. The away team consists of: 8 mastiff marines, 2 chicken pilots & 1 sheep medic. The villa team consists of 8 cow townies (armorer, artesian, electricianx2, mechanicx2, weaponsmithx2), 2 chicken pilot/farmers, a sheep medic, 2 Otter Mariners. Perhaps 1 normal looking dog with massive psionics. The villa is completely self sustaining with a force field & satellite uplink, 2 tanks, 3 robot guards, 4 choppers, 5 unarmed aerial drones, 6 type 1 exoskeletons (used by the cows should the villa be attacked) & a recreational sailboat (holds everyone comfortably). Technology and amenities are extremely high quality. They can produce just about anything in small quantities due to a shortage of resources. The villa team is currently working on a Shadowfade model space shuttle! Perhaps the helicopter/tanks have an AI, so they can be piloted by 1…that way each chicken would have its own copter, and they would go into the field with 2 choppers. All started by a human with a single EGG (which is currently producing…radiation proof swine merchants?).

Perhaps I will go back up to the Otter post and fill them out a little if no one has any suggestions.

More about the humans.

The fortified farms could contain parents with 2 paired kids (if each family has 4 kids). The kids would be created with eggs, to make sure they were perfect (plus being pregnant is no fun, time consuming, etc). Given that you aren't worried about deformities due to radiation, the older humans probably have immune to radiation, while the younger ones could have Animal control instead (since all the animals being created are intelligent domesticated or subservient this gives REALLY good control). Plus you create them and they report to you (and possibly no other) directly for there entire lives. This gives us 6 humans (and 12 squads), which means when you send out a platoon, there are still lots of squads protecting your home, or for reinforcements..and you don't need to tire out your troops.

I suppose the older humans may be gathering materials to create borg bodies, to give them another 600+ years of life. Once they are a borg for 200 years, they would probably put time into transferring there intelligence into robot bodies..so they could live forever! Both borg bodies and robot bodies could contain a built-in egg, so they could recreate everything from scratch if they needed too. They would also be putting time into creating backup bases in remote locations should there homes be breeched by mutant animals.

The younger humans are probably trying to make the world a better place. They each have a combat and non combat squad. perhaps 2/6 humans use chicken squads instead of dogs (air support). I suppose any of the humans can swap out a dogpack for the cattle, when they want to lead a heavy squad (type 1 exoskeletons). I could see them creating something like the lightening VTOL chopper from rifts to deliver them to the battlefield FAST

Each fortified farm would be chosen and built assuming that sooner or later mutant animals will try to over run them and they will be outnumbered at least 100 or 1000 to one.

I do have one questions. Why the Rhode Island Reds for all air force compatibility. Wouldn't homing pigeons be a preferred choice for more expensive equipment, like helicopters and such? The reds would want to pick a fight regardless of the odds, where the homing pigeon could still fly the helicopter back even if nav systems are out of commission?

The first criteria for choosing animals to create is those that are loyal. There are no reasons to take any chances at all, given that you are the last hope of humanity. Play it safe, or eventually the risk becomes a reality. Chances are anyone who took risks is already gone.
Dogs are subservient to humans..making them the best choice.
All the other animals I listed were domesticated, which makes them the second best choice.
The homing pigeons are neither.

From a disposition perspective, The book lists them as aggressive disposition making them vigorous defenders. Which sounds good to me. It doesn't say "pick a fight regardless of odds". Pigeons have MA penalties vs MA bonuses to Rhodes, which means you don't like to be around one, and the others are charming and charismatic...another big difference.

From a technical perspective, having a natural armor rating of 14 in a world where a single hit will kill you or take you out of commission is just amazing.

Its not about the ability to fly, which can be overcome with technology...although flying when there is no cover just means everyone can attack you and visa versa, not normally good when you don't have armor, and won't long term outnumber your enemies. On the contrary, you should expect to be outnumbered, so one person not being able to hurt you is much better than many being able too.

A bonus to your navigation skill is nice, but not worth choosing your race for.

hollowecho wrote:had idea for a dog ...a normal looking dog (a lab/shepered mix) he has mental speech and teeth and advance smell all things a dog would have...background would be academic underground.....

Someone remembers A Boy and his Dog.

8]

I might do a full write up on the sheep to see how they turn out. I expect there will be some interesting ideas when doing a full write up.

...such as they get 43 skills. I'll probably give them the pilot: sailboat skill, and make them a navigator/commander and be second in charge of the squad too, since they are the non combatant they would have time to direct troops, a skill like intelligence would help be second in command of the squad. They will never be as good as an otter who was designed with sensor whiskers & detect weather to be a captain of a ship...and I'm not giving them do heavy work skills like boatbuilding & blacksmithing that the cattle have. While they don't have the same intelligence the cattle have, they are natural leaders due to PB and MA bonuses.

To give the ships the proper feel, they are metal with solar sails (so they have electricity).

One year later I am reading this. Lets ditch the 2 otters.

The sheep still need a better combination of non lethal weapons made for really strong people. Perhaps we should steal the neuromace idea from RIFTS? no too combat oriented...lets drop the sticks altogether, they can punch people and parry with forearm armor. That leaves an old style tranquilizer pistol or a energy gun set to REALLY heavy stun (which could be built into the fore-arms of the class 4 armor armor). I think I like under fore-arm heavy stunner best as it uses less resources than tranquilizer pistols.

I updated the Holstein entry, it now has more than a stat block. if you wanted something much more futuristic, you could give them as laser eye (if say hurt in battle). If you want them to be battle oriented, they could have type 2 armor...but 2-3 could also crew each chopper if the chickens are in the field. They now have perhaps some wires running on their horns to give them a very primitive sensor suite (not being surprised, so they can avoid combat). Its possible that the Holstein just don't have enough time to create as much as I have above, we could reduce their time by having the loylans create all the structures under there direction. Put all the farms on the inside, and as needed the loylans move further outwards. So in terms of defense you have swarm, then farm animals protecting the humans.

I like the idea of the older humans being immune to radiation and the younger ones having control animals (or both!). Not being able to say no to humans makes them godlike. It occurs to me that in some countries and times in history a family could have 10 kids...its less in our current society, but quite possible in an ATB game. The first animal that parents provide their child to take care of them could be that normal looking dog with massive psionics.

The farm is an interesting small society. With a high doctor to patient ratio everyone has amazing medical. I suspect humans would tend towards picking skills making them military generals, animal geneticists or genetic horticulturists (or a combination, just taking the title splicers perhaps ...the genius Holstein are great at taking care of everything and building new stuff. The animals may well use the terms Lord or Lady to describe any human...lets hope this doesn't go to their head. But I could see it being a problem since there are many animals taking care of each human. Then again they have more important things to worry about, like the world having already ended and being a species about to go extinct, be out-populated, animals treating each other with much less civility than humans deem appropriate (killing, torture, enslavement - much as humans had done about 7000 years earlier), etc. It would be easy to see why people would want to build themselves a spaceship and leave. But then they wrecked the moon colony, and I believe there is an insect swarm on mars. Perhaps waterwold isn't a horrible choice.. use an aircraft carrier as a home, with a goal of scavenging materials to turn it into a spaceship. If for whatever reason the combat dogpack isn't using helecopters, the chickens will be acting as snipers & scouts. To reduce the power/tech level lets toss the robots too. And the dog using astral projection means you don't really need a satellite.

Which leads me a mixed platoon:
Command/Non combat squad
-1 human Lord/Lady with animal control & a normal looking dog with massive psionics
-4 Wensleydales SHEEP
-8 Holstein COWs
4 combat squads:
-16 Mastiff DOGs (two packs)
-8 Rhode Island Red CHICKENs (1 flock)
-100 Loylans (and a swarm)

Resources
A mixture of ultra high tech and no tech..in order to use the fewest resources possible.
-Farm with Genetically Engineered Plants p192: gas vine (fuel for jetpacks & copters), meat potato, serum plant, guardian ivy, everfruit tree
-restored warship (artillery) that holds everyone easily & would allow them to travel & obtain supplies (goal: turn it into a spaceship).
-A Type 1 Robot armor, with BFG & customizations by the Holstein..perhaps jumpjets (for the human)
-12 Type 2 exoskeletons: For sheep & cows. Each slightly different, none use energy pistols.
-Two, LC-12 helicopters (to transport the dog packs)

Tactics:
-any member of the squad can be flown to/from battle by a loylan. The chickens could do it too but prefer to hold the line and in general fly faster.
-They are part of a company (led by a psychic) and part of a battalion, led by a mutant.
-The type 1 should prevent any damage to the human...and gives the unit a big stick. When the human engages, enemies usually retreat (think GB from RIFTS).

Notes
-making half of each species female means they can procreate and was an attempt to make everything stable long term (should anything happen to the EGG). However, the second generation will be checked/modified to make sure they will be as loyal as the parents. You could make them all male if you like, or give them a shot if you want them to be able to have kids, otherwise it wouldn't be possible.
-I'm not quite sure how many loylans should be in a swarm. Perhaps 50 or 100. They are supposed to solve the problem of everyone outnumbering you.
-there should be 2 extra chickens and 4 extra dogs at the base...too protect it and replace injured comrades. Perhaps we make them adolescents.

Mastiff with guerrilla warrior background:
SL10->8 = ~5'4"
Features: Looks none, full hands & biped, partial speech
Powers: advanced vision, leaping standard. +crushing strength, predator burst, extraordinary speed, advanced smell, advanced hearing
Special: +10Bioe=>+10PP – which I’m saying nets autododge, (for comparison: taking PP twice would be plus two attacks)
Disadvantages: diet: carnivore, –subservience

Average Spd=~15+6breed+2background+~21extspd+10running skill=54. (~60kmph), could be about 20 more with good rolls.
Average Ps=~15+6breed+2background+2 size level+~7skills=34…? 5d6+20 punch, higher with good rolls. (lift 17,000 / carry10,200)
Average PP= 15+10(bio-e)+1skills=26 or +6s/p/d

Guerrilla warrior (so this build can be duplicated)
Primary Skills: Wilderness Survival, gymnastics (includes prowl), math: basic, radio: basic, 4 Military Skills: (paramedic, tracking, detect concealment & traps OR ambush, trapping[m] OR camouflage[f]), 3 Physical Skills (boxing, wrestling, running), 2 Pilot Skills (land navigation[f] OR navigation[m], sailing), & 3 WPs (Archery, HTH: Assassin).
Secondary Skills: 5: baseball, swimming, preserve food[f] OR herbal medicine[m], sign language, +1 (barbering, basic mechanics, ropeworks, carpentry, blacksmithing, anthropology (societies), antiquarian (pre-crash), and sewing)
Contacts: Familiar with the contested borderlands around the Empire of Humanity, and knows quite a few of the guerrilla groups and/or other dogpacks.

Equipment:
-Forest camouflaged class 4 hard armor: AR17, sdc280, 20 pounds. Helmet contains Thermo optics & a scrambled radio.
-2 steel pipes which can be combined into a staff (for jumping). Baseball gives +3s/p (play with grenades!)
-a very strong bow and reusable arrows (a few special arrows each). Much longer range than normal due to crushing strength and advanced vision
-pouches & webbing: smoke/sleep/smell (for tracking) grenades, misc: map, survival knife (attaches to staff), trapkit or camokit.
-backpack: food (jerky & meat potatoes), water filter, water canteen, camo tarponcho, small heat reflective bivy, camo-net (fishing/bed/combat), rope, shovel head (attaches to staff), etc.
-solar powered compass watch with rad detector wrist band (changes color), ranger bead wristband

Notes:
-combat style: autododge as necessary while Parkour (running/leaping) through forest/ruins & shooting bow (1d6x10+20 damage), use grenades liberally.
-The human medic has the following skills in order to take care of their troops (and make them reliant on the human): Intelligence, cooking (many meat sauces), demolitions (for taking out large targets), dentistry (), disguise, interrogation, etc.

Learning Skills:
-For level 3, they become navy seals and get advanced swimming.
-For level 6, intelligence.

Wensleydales SHEEP:
SL15->8 (~5’4”), full hands & biped, partial speech, no looks.
Disadvantages: -domesticated -herbivore
Powers: disease resistant, Brute strength (10), Extra: MA(5), PE (5) & PB (10).
Psionics: Psychic diagnosis (10), Advanced Cell reader (15), Psychic surgery (15).
-BACKGROUND: Academic underground, Apprenticeship: healer. Loads of skills including: barbering, dentistry, cooking...

While not quite as loyal as the dogs this sheep is still domesticated and obeys orders..even if that means that their patients needs are not put first. The combination of extra PE & disease resistance makes it possible for this medic to worry less about infection than others...they can treat sick patients without getting sick and dying, which means they can go places others can not. Psi diagnosis is fast and accurate, psi surgery doesn't require tools or a hospital. Cell reader increases their medical abilities. Brute strength and extra PE mean they can pickup injured easily and go on doctoring for hours. ...and lets face it, who doesn't want a charming medic (they get 1d6 from the breed and another 1d4+4 from extra PB, so the average PB is close to supermodel and they are very charming). And you get Extra MA so everyone likes you and your patients might even follow their doctors orders.

Equipment:
-Type 2 exoskeleton, in order to let them keep up to the dogs when running on the ground. under-wrist heavy stun blasters. No energy pistol.
-sleep hypo (100 doses, doesn't use a needle), may carry an extra bottle of doses. Its quite small and easily concealable.
-grenades: smoke & sleep gas.
-wristband radiation detector.

Notes:
-a non combatant, parry with forearms, underarm stun blast, or kick in melee (lower body exoskeleton helps).
-Since they aren't engaging in combat, they could help direct the troops, but perhaps they shouldn't be in charge as they are only domesticated, not subservient. Although they do have lots of skills if you wanted to put them in charge.

Rhode Island Red CHICKEN:
-SL7 long build =~5’7"
-Features: Full speech, biped, arms with hands, looks partial
-Powers: NAR14 +60sdc (30,scales), ultraviolet vision (5), advanced vision (5) & Glide (15).
-Disadvantages: domesticated +5, herbivores +5
BACKGROUND: Guerrilla warrior (slightly modified, same number of skills) +10bioe
Primary Skills: Wilderness Survival, literacy, math: basic, radio: basic, 3 Physical Skills (HTH Assassin, aerial acrobatics), 5 Pilot Skills (aircraft mechanics, pilot: helicopter, pilot: jet, navigation, read sensory), electrical engineer & 3 WPs (pistol, energy rifle, vehicle weapon systems).
Secondary Skills: 5: sign language, ID plants, farming, pilot: farm vehicle, herbal medicine

They have each chosen one skill and are currently learning: Astronomy, Brewing & Preserve food. They want to learn Botany after that.

Equipment:
-Jetpack & Energy rifle. Think about it! This would be soo cool! Combine "The Rocketeer" movie with steering and glide using their normal wings...
-Machine pistol with a UV laser pointer (so they can see where its going to hit and others can not). 300' range, payload: 60/15, 4d6/1d4x10.
-A survival knife, canteen, cereal bars, herbal medkit, emergency bivy, UV headlight.

These chickens live to fly, farm and obey the human who created them (not everyone lives with and follows the orders of their God). Since they are chickens, they get their hearts desire..even more than humans they want to fly. They probably even get some bonus to fly. With their natural armor and glide ability, even if the chopper is shot down, they could survive the blast and/or glide to safety. Ultraviolet vision means they can see the targeting lasers that the chopper uses, possibly giving them a bonus to hit. They might also be able to guide missiles with UV lasers manually, since they can see in that spectrum. There are probably a bunch more tricks to be had with the ability to see in a spectrum others can't. Likely the choppers searchlight is UV, allowing them to see you but not the other way around. Generations of being farm animals seems to have drawn them all to farming. These chickens were born and bred to do what they do best..they are incredibly happy with their lot in life - they are just as loyal as the dogs.




If you are reading this what are your thoughts/improvements?

Thinking about humans in ATB,

SL7, which makes you 5'1" to 5'6" (perfectly acceptable) nets 20Bio-E, which means everyone gets both control animals & immune to radiation!

25Bio-E will be enough for an APS power. There are backgrounds that come with Bioe. There are also disadvantages like nearsightedness & color blindness which may be acceptable. Perhaps partial speech, if you were born/created in a rad zone. If your parents had immune to radiation they could have been hiding out somewhere others couldn't go when you were born or while pregnant. I feel like that sort of works with APS: Light which I mentioned earlier.

Hmm given the ratios I was using, you could make a small outpost started by borgs, who have no idea what to do - perhaps just create a few backup outposts...(which perhaps keep getting destroyed) and improve their bodies...we so can make them 10 or perhaps 20' tall and SUPER-TEK, they can fly into space, but don't have anything to do! Each is the equivillent of a company in terms of firepower.

So a small outpost would look something like:
The ruling counsel:
-4 borgs (the parents, with 5 kids each, their animals died of old age, they may not have created new ones)
-1 mutant with APS: light & frequency absorbtion (and a satelite)
The kids:
-4 psychics queens (creating loylans to prevent the outpost from being overrun)
-16 human lords (with animal contol, immune to radiation, and a type 1 robot)
Each human has a company of mutant animals:
noncombat command unit:
-1 psionic dog
-4 Wensleydales SHEEP
-8 Holstein COWs
4 combat squads:
-16 Mastiff DOGs (two packs)
-8 Rhode Island Red CHICKENs (1 flock)
-100 Loylans (and a swarm)

For me, that has the right feel of almost no tech and ultrahigh tek, but limited resources. With the disclaimer that as a GM, whatever the humans do manges to backfire or even if they succeed, they get blamed for it being wrong somehow. Ie. why did they wait so long?! they are aweful, thousands suffered before they acted, some result they couldn't have anticipated beyond their control goes wrong, if they save people its never enough, then what do you do with rescued people doesn't work out, or they get blamed for not saving more, no matter what they do it never works out.