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*edit: blah, I meant to post this in the Guild of Magic and Psionics, if a mod happens to read this, feel free to move

Some beings will say they have all psionics. I used to think this was cool since I could always think "hey, that includes Mind Bleeder too!". Only if there was a limiting phrase like 'all 4 categories' could I not make that assumption.

Thinking further on it though... there are also unique psionic powers possessed by some beings. Like Rurga's lie-detection deific power, or that psionic fire-blade some dude in Pantheons can make. Or the unique RCC psionics possessed by some classes (like in Psyscape or South America 2 or Between the Shadows or Shadows of Light).

Phase Powers might be out. They SEEM psionic but I still lack explicit reference to them being psionic.

For those rare beings who have a blanket "all" psychic powers (which is kinda rare, off-hand I only remember one AI in CB1 and Tentac in Bletherad having this) would it be cool to give them all those other powers one would rarely think about, and really power them up as threats?

I don't recall if there's any way for PCs to have 'all' psionic powers so it doesn't sound like it could upset game balance, just make NPCs more dangerous and challenging to deal with, more unique mega-threats. Correct me if wrong.

I'd say that unless specified otherwise, access to "all psionic powers" means all GENERAL psionic powers, not the special powers specific to certain species (like the mutants from SA2 or the mind bleeder DBees), and even less the unique powers of certain individuals, especially god level ones...

This stays, of course, subject to GM decision... It's generally better that NPCs follow the smae rules as PCs, unless you have a specific reason to break the rules... when you decide to do so, fiat is the only limit.

I would say that "all psionic powers" means "All of the standard powers". Mind bleeder powers, racial unique powers, ect, are not included unless specified.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I would say that "all psionic powers" means "All of the standard powers". Mind bleeder powers, racial unique powers, etc, are not included unless specified.

Yep, "all psionics" mean all the powers that are detailed in "That Setting's Main Book".

Psi powers that as not covered are: Mind bleeders powers, Phase Powers, RChina2 MA powers, any psi powers that are in other settings but are not in the setting being played in (i.e.: if you are playing in rifts then the char does not get powers only detailed in BTS2), and any racial psionics that are unique to that race (like Hyper TK is unique to Neo-Humans).

THE ONLY exception to these is when that game's Gm specifically imports said powers to be available to that char.

Just to clarify: are we assuming this out of convenience because we want these NPCs to be weak, or is there a solid source saying that 'all' only refers to the 4 basic categories?

I kind of think 'all' really should mean ALL, otherwise (in spite of his cool soul-eating ability) there isn't much of a basis for Tentac being compared with major Deevil Lords ('minor' only due to antisocialness)

I'm going to dub these ambiguous dudes the "uberPsis" and see if I can compile a list of all of them...
*1 in 10 random alien intelligences (CBp206 + Pantheons 74)
*Cronus (Pantheons89)
*Mania (D+Gp216)
*Mephisto the alien intelligence (CB1p224end)
**Mephisto the Deevil Lord (D+Gp197, not the same being, see Rifts Earth note)
***Note that CB3 (Dark Conversions) page 40 clarifies that "all" does include Bleeder powers.
*Ravana (Pantheons138)
*Siva (Pantheons127)
*Styphon (D+Gp227)
*Tentac (Bletherad106)

Of notable mention too, for those who think 'all' simply means heal/phys/sens/Sup, Ahuru Mazda in Pantheons179 does not say "all" in spite of fitting that definition, so even back in April 1994 there is reason to believe that 'all' at least included Bleeder too, if not all the extra abilities. Dark Conversions only confirmed this with their importing D+G's mephisto (although with CB1r removing the AI Meph's stats, new players will be left guessing as to who this 'imposter' is).

Drew I gotta disagree about "only powers in the setting". Mind Bleeder powers are only in Rifts, yet Dark Conversions clarifies that a Deevil Lord (originating from PF setting) has them, and the Dyval book has some Deevils with all Bleeder powers too. This being a Megaversal system, all really does mean ALL, thus the terrifying emphasis (caps/italics) often given to that three-letter word in the rare instances it shows up.

The number is pretty limited, I see no harm in making these guys scary and unpredictable by expanding their versatility. Even giving them all the unique RCC or deific psi powers out there, it'd still probably number a fewer tally of abilities than all these "all spells 1-15" guys out there they're competing with.

Besides what's listed, anyone else know any other legendary "all" guys out there we can power up beyond basic expectations to be megathreats?

There are a lot of 'all sensitive' gods out there as well, and they become quite scary when we realize this includes the ability to Dreamdance, since if you can do that and cast a portal from someone's dreampool into the real world, you can pull them in like how Morpheomoths and DreamMakers sometimes do, and kill them, with no risk to yourself. In the very least, minor dreamdancing is a great way to meet with other gods without putting yourself at risk of damage.

You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

I would say 'all psionics' means. "All powers the GM cares to let them have." Just like the note in MoM1 about what 'has all magic' means, I would apply that to this. They are psionic power houses, and they will have any sort of 'regular' power that is available in the game. That doesn't mean they necisarily have, or don't have, any power that isn't normally available in the game they are in. Just that they have sufficient powers that listing them would be pointless.
Does this mean that they will have anything in the 'common lists' probably. Does this mean they have stuff from specific classes or races? Maybe....That's a GMs call right there. Do they have the 'almost psionic' stuff like Rifts China's abilities, or PF1s Healing, or Phase powers.....probably not...but I wouldn't rule it out either.
Since these are all NPCs, and most are gods and the like, its not quite as important to make all inclusive stats that detail every power. If a PC manages to somehow get something that does this? Then the GM is going to have to make up a house rule ANYWAY.....

say652 wrote:You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

*poke*
You might want to talk about Which Godlings you are talking about since there are multiple place in PB canon for making a DG char.
Form PU2? RCB2?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

say652 wrote:You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

*poke*
You might want to talk about Which Godlings you are talking about since there are multiple place in PB canon for making a DG char.
Form PU2? RCB2? RWB:SA2?

My pardon good sir. The Pantheons of the Megaverse Godling. My reference is to page 16 the Pantheon Powers listing.

Also we forgot the Witch with gift of union. Sure they are 1/2 strength but link with the right master and bingo all psionic powers.

say652 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

say652 wrote:You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

*poke*
You might want to talk about Which Godlings you are talking about since there are multiple place in PB canon for making a DG char.
Form PU2? RCB2? RWB:SA2?

My pardon good sir. The Pantheons of the Megaverse Godling. My reference is to page 16 the Pantheon Powers listing.

Also we forgot the Witch with gift of union. Sure they are 1/2 strength but link with the right master and bingo all psionic powers.

Well fortunately the Godling power is for either one, or two of the minor categories. Which conveniently removes stuff like Mind Bleeder, or Racial Psi.
The Witch is also fortunately a "not recommended for PC use" thing, that requires the GMs permission to make, AND the GMs permission for who you bind to. So pretty much if the GM is letting you be a witch of one of these things....Its already far into the "your call GM, make up what fits your game"

eliakon wrote:

say652 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

say652 wrote:You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

*poke*
You might want to talk about Which Godlings you are talking about since there are multiple place in PB canon for making a DG char.
Form PU2? RCB2? RWB:SA2?

My pardon good sir. The Pantheons of the Megaverse Godling. My reference is to page 16 the Pantheon Powers listing.

Also we forgot the Witch with gift of union. Sure they are 1/2 strength but link with the right master and bingo all psionic powers.

Well fortunately the Godling power is for either one, or two of the minor categories. Which conveniently removes stuff like Mind Bleeder, or Racial Psi.
The Witch is also fortunately a "not recommended for PC use" thing, that requires the GMs permission to make, AND the GMs permission for who you bind to. So pretty much if the GM is letting you be a witch of one of these things....Its already far into the "your call GM, make up what fits your game"

You are allowed 3 choices from the list. Psssst take psionics three times while NOT giving any more isp for the other two choices it would add more powers.

Edit: just realized, I forgot 2 races in Mystic China which would also be UberPsis:
*page 142's Hu Fen Pao
*page 144's Infernals (based on rolls, 3/110 ordinaries, 1/11 for Ushers, 2/11 for Lords; which would be over 2%/9%/18% of them)

say652 wrote:You also didint mention Godlings. You can get ALL minor psionics plus 15 Super Psionics.

I'm aware of Godlings and didn't mention them because they don't apply to this consideration. They could at best approach Ahuru Mazda.

say652 wrote:we forgot the Witch with gift of union. Sure they are 1/2 strength but link with the right master and bingo all psionic powers.

True, though that is sort of an extension of bonding to an AI/god/dLord who has such powers, so they're still the primary distinct entities that we need to find.

say652 wrote:You are allowed 3 choices from the list. Psssst take psionics three times while NOT giving any more isp for the other two choices it would add more powers.

Even so, this doesn't get you the statement 'all' which hypothetically goes beyond the 4 initial categories.