Post Release Return/Replacement Policy

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:26 pm

I'm sure they will. One guy already got a refund thru his bank this afternoon.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:26 pm

My recommendation is to ask them directly, the relevant contact information is linked to in my signature.

In general I've not heard of there being problems with Palladium's return policies on their existing product lines.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:59 am

Yeah I'm curious about this too since the current designs will not come out great on the sprue and curious if they will have product to replace it or what ?

Unread post by **NMI** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:24 am

You are assuming that there will be problems with bad plastic/parts/construction and that the final product will be done incompetently.

However, I have sent your question direct to Kevin, Wayne and Alex as well as a link to the topic.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:00 am

NMI wrote:You are assuming that there will be problems with bad plastic/parts/construction and that the final product will be done incompetently.

It's made in China - The likelihood is high that at least 1 sprue will make it through quality control

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:04 am

I think it is a very valid question and a realistic thing to assume with millions of parts being produced there will be some erring in there somewhere. It would be smart of PB to address these issues and do it on the Kickstarter page as people really are wanting these kinds of answers over there. It would go a long way toward quelling some of the disquiet if people see that PB has plans to deal with the things they see as issues.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:09 am

NMI wrote:You are assuming that there will be problems with bad plastic/parts/construction and that the final product will be done incompetently.

However, I have sent your question direct to Kevin, Wayne and Alex as well as a link to the topic.

Actually NMI I have worked in ABS plastic and from what I have seen of the Spartan designs and the VF-1 designs, there will be a high return rate on these minis due to product being warped and short shot.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:58 am

Welcome to the forums Larry. Enjoy.

Spinachcat · Unread post by **Spinachcat** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:00 pm

As a miniatures fan, I know this is an absolute concern.

Citadel/Games Workshop (whether you love'em or hate'em) creates great models most of the time, but there have been boxes with missing sprues, half melted sprues, and other weird anomalies that occur in mass plastics production. Not by anyone's malice or incompetence, just by the involvement of machines in the process doing the making and the packing. It happens.

Mods, please don't be so defensive on this one. The hardest of the hard core 40k devotees know that GW's production line isn't 100% perfect 100% of the time. It happens to FFG with their boardgame pieces too, something their most loyal fans would also admit. This isn't some slam on PB. This is a very legit concern.

calto40k · Unread post by **calto40k** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:14 am

Spinachcat wrote:As a miniatures fan, I know this is an absolute concern.

Citadel/Games Workshop (whether you love'em or hate'em) creates great models most of the time, but there have been boxes with missing sprues, half melted sprues, and other weird anomalies that occur in mass plastics production. Not by anyone's malice or incompetence, just by the involvement of machines in the process doing the making and the packing. It happens.

Mods, please don't be so defensive on this one. The hardest of the hard core 40k devotees know that GW's production line isn't 100% perfect 100% of the time. It happens to FFG with their boardgame pieces too, something their most loyal fans would also admit. This isn't some slam on PB. This is a very legit concern.

GW will actually send you a full box of the missing sprues if you call and let them know... I know this due to missing some knights and infantry from an empire battalion box

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:15 am

Bummer

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:22 am

I know Wyrd requires a little information (box name and identifying number from a tag within, I think) but they send off parts to people who have boxes that were missing them.

Here? No idea. I'd like to think that they'd help any one (backer or retail purchase alike) with errors or omissions, but without a clear cut policy in place (and they really do need to establish one in the next few months, rather than try to play catchup, because there *will* be things missing once boxes start going out to retail and backers) it's not easy to say one way or the other.

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:56 pm

Forar wrote:Here? No idea. I'd like to think that they'd help any one (backer or retail purchase alike) with errors or omissions, but without a clear cut policy in place (and they really do need to establish one in the next few months, rather than try to play catchup, because there *will* be things missing once boxes start going out to retail and backers) it's not easy to say one way or the other.

If it goes like Robotech things here recently and you post a question thread about it, someone will tell you that you should have expected a miscast/missing sprue because it's Robotech and Palladium and that you should have known better to set your expectations so high. Right after that, someone else will tell you that the missing sprue isn't the problem but rather your attitude is and that you're just ignoring the opportunity Palladium gave you for battle damaged conversions. A day after you start it, another person will lock the thread and issue you a warning because you've got nothing constructive to say about miscast/missing pieces that didn't get proper QA despite massive delays. The above of course is theoretical and just one man's opinion based on how things have been going here for months.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:21 pm

Dude, you almost owed me a new monitor.

Gotta warn a person before you unleash humour of that magnitude.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:06 am

Any word as to if they will bother to put an official policy in place or is it business as usual and just not bother and do everything off the cuff as it comes?

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:21 am

Not that I've seen/heard.

But then again, barely any forumers visit this subforum. Barring a report of misbehaviour, I doubt many of the staff do either. Probably have to email them directly to get any attention.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:49 am

Indeed, questions regarding Palladium's refund and return policy, should be voiced to Palladium directly. See the links in my signature for more details.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:23 am

Well, to be clear, this isn't just about refunds or returns, but sprues that are missing pieces. A much smaller issue (literally and figuratively), where simply knowing that if one of my figures is missing, say, its left leg, that getting replacement pieces sent over follows a simple procedure and will be done in a timely fashion.

No matter how good the production facility, no matter how good the QA people, things will slip between the cracks. Having a policy in place to know that such issues will be mere minor bumps in the road would be reassuring.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:32 am

I think it kinda seems silly to act like they wouldn't handle faulty parts like that. I think it would be good of them to let everyone know they have a policy in place. I think what Jeff was suggesting was if you want anything to get noticed by the staff your best option is to contact them directly and not just post about it on the FotM, the KS Comments, the Facebook or whatever other public options are out there.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:39 am

Spinachcat wrote:As a miniatures fan, I know this is an absolute concern.

Citadel/Games Workshop (whether you love'em or hate'em) creates great models most of the time, but there have been boxes with missing sprues, half melted sprues, and other weird anomalies that occur in mass plastics production. Not by anyone's malice or incompetence, just by the involvement of machines in the process doing the making and the packing. It happens.

Mods, please don't be so defensive on this one. The hardest of the hard core 40k devotees know that GW's production line isn't 100% perfect 100% of the time. It happens to FFG with their boardgame pieces too, something their most loyal fans would also admit. This isn't some slam on PB. This is a very legit concern.

Right on mate. Citadel, even with all their time and experience, had absolutely horrid problems when they were first rolling out "finecast."

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:48 am

Jorel wrote:I think it would be good of them to let everyone know they have a policy in place.

Personally, that's all I'm asking for.

I think what Jeff was suggesting was if you want anything to get noticed by the staff your best option is to contact them directly and not just post about it on the FotM, the KS Comments, the Facebook or whatever other public options are out there.

*shrug* There's no reason people can't do both. Hell, run with it man, go let them know! Spread the word far and wide!

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:09 am

Wayne has stated they aren't even reading the KS comments so you are talking to yourself on that forum. Kevin looks at facebook occasionally, so that is basically a dead end as well. Clearly Jefffar is reading these comments as part of his job as a mod, I would assume. So I don't think the staff at Palladium are reading this forum either. At the end of the day you are just venting on all those fronts and if you really want to get noticed...there are easy ways to get direct answers. Just not publicly.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:53 am

*shrug* As I said, I'll chat with people as I see fit, and if I really want to get in touch, I know their contact details.

Or I'll wait for you to corral the backers and do it for us. I mean, either way, the word gets out. If the backers are providing information at length and they can't be bothered to glance through what is said, that's not my fault. If it's important, sure, we should speak up, but for day to day chatter, I really doubt PB would be any more likely to respond or take my input if I mailed them 15 times a week with minor thoughts and suggestions.

And I really shouldn't need to. Unless they want to pay me as a consultant, it's not my job to collect data, do market research, and compile info for them. I'm a backer, not a volunteer. If I choose to voluntarily go out of my way to toss them a heads up or seek further clarification, that's my choice, but it's not a requirement of backing. I did my part (and then some) when the campaign ended and again when the pledge manager concluded.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:58 am

Not for nothing but shouldn't this be something already laid out and made official somewhere as opposed to individuals having to contact them directly about it?

Just sayin'

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:06 am

Probably. And for all we know it's been worked out since sometime in 2012.

But as we've learned, one shouldn't take anything for granted with this project.

It's totally worth asking, but given that we're still 4 months from wave one's delivery, it's also not exactly a highly pressing matter either. Until products are delivered, there's nothing to have missing.

Hell, I'll bet they already dealt with it with Max and Miriya, meaning they at least had to make something work for that. Going forward with an actual policy shouldn't be a Herculean task from there.

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:07 am

jaymz wrote:Not for nothing but shouldn't this be something already laid out and made official somewhere as opposed to individuals having to contact them directly about it?

Just sayin'

It is easier to unilaterally alter a deal/policy when done in a relatively private one on one interaction rather than something publicly posted simultaneously to 5,000+ folks.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:24 am

Until someone says they have issue with misshapen parts or missing parts and then them being denied replacement parts by Palladium, like they are denying refunds currently, I'm not gonna worry about it. They aren't scamming people.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:27 am

So you don't think proactive actions are a good idea? That having policies in place before you need them rather than after is something to strive for?

That... that actually makes a lot of sense.

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:31 am

Jorel wrote:Until someone says they have issue with misshapen parts or missing parts and then them being denied replacement parts by Palladium, like they are denying refunds currently, I'm not gonna worry about it. They aren't scamming people.

No one is accusing them of scamming anyone. There is some logic to devoting efforts to preventing a fire rather than trying to put one out after it is started though...

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:00 pm

However, as was raised, if you want to find out information about Palladium's Refund and Return policy, communicate with them through the link in my signature.

Similarly, if you want to communicate to them suggesting they make a public statement about that policy, you should do so through the link in my signature.

Palladium has always viewed these boards as primarily a way for Fans to communicate with other Fans. As such the actual staff presence on these forums (and I am not staff, for the record) is limited. Communications between Palladium and its customers is primarily to be handled directly betwen the customer and Palladium through the channels that are linked to in my signature.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:20 pm

That is all I was getting at. No need to put words on me like the insulting stuff Forar keeps acting like I mean.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:23 pm

Truly I am the meanest.

Well Larry, good luck with your email to Palladium asking them about their replacement/return policies. Be sure to share them with us, I mean, assuming it takes them more than a couple days to get them tucked somewhere accessible on the site.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:40 pm

Takes a lot to be the meanest. You have a long ways to go. Continue and try all you want.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:42 pm

As always, I appreciate and cherish your support, you lovable little scamp.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:43 pm

Wait a minute.

There's a "Palladium help desk system", phone, fax, and written letter manners of contacting them, but not a simple email address?

O.o

*prolonged sigh*

Unread post by **NMI** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:11 am

Forar wrote:Wait a minute.

There's a "Palladium help desk system", phone, fax, and written letter manners of contacting them, but not a simple email address?

O.o

*prolonged sigh*

Have you tried the above - phone, fax or written letter?

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:13 pm

are we really stuck in the 80s man? They should have email as a contact point as well. I'm pretty sure that is what he was pointing out. Those other options, though just as valid are rather antiquated.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:14 pm

and then again I'm pretty sure you can easily fax stuff from a computer so I guess maybe Forar should try that.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:25 pm

Jorel hits it out of the park.

Having a physical address to send letters but not an email address to send what is now among the most common forms of interpersonal communications is kind of glaring.

Like, should we go check to see if PalladiumBooks@gmail.com is still available? We could have this sorted out in maybe 10 minutes.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:34 am

Having e-mail is a tricky thing for a small business with limited to no IT support.

A SMB Server, which is basically an all in one server, including Exchange can be tricky nonetheless. PB could use a third party like yahoo, gmail, or even a hosted site. Still it could be problematic, but easier to manage. But with PB's policies on what's there's is there's, IP and all. I'd want to host it in house or not at all.

And that's how you get to have no e-mail.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:37 am

Larry A wrote:ROFLMAO. Let's see, IT support? HEY! I have it at home and still have a couple of available email addresses. How about I give Palladium one of those, since obviously NONE of the staff have an email, right?

Seriously, no excuse at all for not having a company email. The place my wife works has zero IT personnel, less employees than Palladium and probably does more business in their little niche market. They have a couple of company emails, plus individual emails for the workers and boss.

I just recalled they do use e-mail periodically (that is how they sent out the NG-1 PDF's). I did a quick search and found this e-mail address for Rifter Submissions: riftersub@palladiumbooks.com I'd expect rifter@palladiumbooks.com is also a viable e-mail and it would get to Wayne.

Morgan Vening · Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:07 am

NMI wrote:You are assuming that there will be problems with bad plastic/parts/construction and that the final product will be done incompetently.

However, I have sent your question direct to Kevin, Wayne and Alex as well as a link to the topic.

It's been almost four weeks since you forwarded this to the people in charge. Glad to see they're on top of things, and lines of communication are open.

And it's not a case of incompetency (at least not in this instance). Any mass-production work is going to have flaws crop up in the manufacturing. They're going to cast at least 25,600 of the Artillery Regult Sprues alone (just for the KS BC's). Obvious flaws might be easily caught (if adequately QC'd), but minor flaws (like a distortion in the peg/hole that joins the torso segment, or disallows the joining of the artillery stem to the rocket pod) could easily slip through the QC process, as you can't check those fits until assembly. Even a 0.1% failure rate could result in hundreds of miscast sprues just in the initial BC print run*. Having a policy in place, and a contact point that doesn't take 4+ weeks to get a response from, seems like a sound strategy.

* We still don't know sprue layouts, but based on the Artillery Regult, I can't see most sprues being less than two per, and see several being 1 per (Glaug, Spartan, probably Phalanx due to experimentals, maybe Veri's, if the rocket options are significant as per Update 133). But even if you go with two per (and Arty's at one), that's 48 sprues per BC, x 6400 listed BC's, or 307,000 sprues (assuming everything but the Arty is paired, which is unlikely), just for the initial KS release. Even with a 0.1% slip rate, that's still 300+ replacements. And we're not even talking full run, if PB want to push this heavy at retail.

NMI wrote:Have you tried the above - phone, fax or written letter?

Written letter, unless it's sent registered mail with a SASO (which is pricy), I can't see having much chance of a response.
Fax is outdated to the point of obsolescence. Sure, I could send one via various internet conversion programs, but again, without a direct fax, little chance of a response.
International phonecalls are out of the question. And honestly, the most disruptive form of communication for people wanting to run a business. Email is the least disruptive, if you keep on top of things (no physical cost, and less immediate disruption if done in batches).

Maximilian Jenius · Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:09 pm

So are we going to have to write a letter when we get a sprue missing parts?

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:59 pm

you can fax or call. Don't forget those options from the 60s.

Morgan Vening · Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:09 pm

Jorel wrote:you can fax or call. Don't forget those options from the 60s.

My Morse is a little rusty, but if I can have their telegraph address,
.... . -.-- --..-- / .--. .- .-.. .-.. .- -.. .. ..- -- .-.-.- / --. . - / .. -. - --- / - .... . / ..--- .---- ... - / -.-. . -. - ..- .-. -.-- .-.-.- / -.-. .- -. / .. / .... .- --.. / .-. . ..-. ..- -. -.. ... / -. --- .-- ..--..
Probably a better chance of a response to that than to an Email.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:15 pm

Exactly

Kendachi · Unread post by **Kendachi** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:37 pm

I can always bust out my semaphore flags or my signaling light...

Smoke signals!

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:56 am

Maximilian Jenius wrote:So are we going to have to write a letter when we get a sprue missing parts?

You can phone, fax or use the online form.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:08 am

Morgan Vening wrote:
Jorel wrote:you can fax or call. Don't forget those options from the 60s.

My Morse is a little rusty, but if I can have their telegraph address,
.... . -.-- --..-- / .--. .- .-.. .-.. .- -.. .. ..- -- .-.-.- / --. . - / .. -. - --- / - .... . / ..--- .---- ... - / -.-. . -. - ..- .-. -.-- .-.-.- / -.-. .- -. / .. / .... .- --.. / .-. . ..-. ..- -. -.. ... / -. --- .-- ..--..
Probably a better chance of a response to that than to an Email.

Fun fact, according to the forum rules, we consider the following as spam:

languages other than ENGLISH without providing an "accurate and true translation" for everyone else to read and understand. Yes, this includes l337

It would also include other codes as well.

Now fortunately I've found a translation on line, which brings us to these suggestions on what qualifies as harassment

name calling, mockery and mean spirited posts

As those in this thread have been directed how to get the answer they need, and at this point seem to only be interested in mocking Palladium. The thread is now locked.