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Recently, I've found dragons to be a little less than what I was looking for in strength. A bad roll and I don't think some of them could lift themselves even.

That being the case, and the fact that I want some dragons that seem large enough to be able to lift an MBT if they have too, I've made a house rule for dragon strength. When a dragon is in it's true and full size form, it gets upgraded to what I call dragon strength. So it can lift more and do a little more hand to hand damage. I just think big dragons should be better in hand to hand than say a demon bull or the like.

Thoughts?

Use the HU supernatural strength lifting tables.

really, the main problem is that the lift/carry rules only cover humans and humanoids effectively. Horses can carry far more than their listed strength stat would permit, and so on for most quadrepedal beaasts.

The solution isn't to come up with a new catagory of strength so much as to make size/shape factor into carrying capacity.

For most rift things ps times 100. For strong things extraordinary strength stronger things superhuman strength and for really really strong things supernatural strength. These lifting numbers are alit better than the rifts equivalent.

Nightfactory wrote:

Jerell wrote:Recently, I've found dragons to be a little less than what I was looking for in strength. A bad roll and I don't think some of them could lift themselves even.

I don't understand. Dragons have supernatural strength.

One of the problems I encountered is that even with a Supernatural Strength alot of the Dragons could not lift their own body weight.

I have a Great Horned Hatchling that can only lift 16,000lbs but weighs 48,000lbs in his Dragon shape.

Nightfactory wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Nightfactory wrote:

Jerell wrote:Recently, I've found dragons to be a little less than what I was looking for in strength. A bad roll and I don't think some of them could lift themselves even.

I don't understand. Dragons have supernatural strength.

One of the problems I encountered is that even with a Supernatural Strength alot of the Dragons could not lift their own body weight.

I have a Great Horned Hatchling that can only lift 16,000lbs but weighs 48,000lbs in his Dragon shape.

He can only lift 16,000lbs? Is that not enough for you?

Yes 8 tons sounds like alot, but when you weigh 24 tons and can even lift yourself out of a hole it isn't all that much.

One solution I have used before that has worked well is to simply say that PS is how much EXTRA weight you can lift. If you weigh 24 tons, and have a lift of 16 tons, then you can lift 40 tons TOTAL. But if your lifting the extra 16 tons, you cant move. Yes its not terribly realistic, but it does prevent issues of "I can't move myself."

in RIFTS where the supernatural strength lift is a joke. We house ruled Giant Robots add their weight to their lift. For dragons and other supernatural creatures we use a weightless rule. body weight doesn't affect their movement or strength. makin handstands backflips etc. possible for these big heavy creatures.

say652 wrote:in RIFTS where the supernatural strength lift is a joke. We house ruled Giant Robots add their weight to their lift. For dragons and other supernatural creatures we use a weightless rule. body weight doesn't affect their movement or strength. makin handstands backflips etc. possible for these big heavy creatures.

It isn't a joke. What you posted is closer to the joke...
Why should a Dragon be able to lift its own weight? Elephants can't, no large animals can regardless of how strong they are - they is what nature is. Small animals can lift more than their body weight, medium animals can lift their body weight and large animals can lift less than their body weight. Rifts is doing well to follow reality.

Heroes unlimited two thumbs up. RIFTS eh. Fun place to battle kinda wonky rules

SpiritInterface wrote:

Nightfactory wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Nightfactory wrote:

Jerell wrote:Recently, I've found dragons to be a little less than what I was looking for in strength. A bad roll and I don't think some of them could lift themselves even.

I don't understand. Dragons have supernatural strength.

One of the problems I encountered is that even with a Supernatural Strength alot of the Dragons could not lift their own body weight.

I have a Great Horned Hatchling that can only lift 16,000lbs but weighs 48,000lbs in his Dragon shape.

He can only lift 16,000lbs? Is that not enough for you?

Yes 8 tons sounds like alot, but when you weigh 24 tons and can even lift yourself out of a hole it isn't all that much.

You do know your own body weight has nothing to do with your carrying capacity in palladium rules, right?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Nightfactory wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:
One of the problems I encountered is that even with a Supernatural Strength alot of the Dragons could not lift their own body weight.

I have a Great Horned Hatchling that can only lift 16,000lbs but weighs 48,000lbs in his Dragon shape.

He can only lift 16,000lbs? Is that not enough for you?

Yes 8 tons sounds like alot, but when you weigh 24 tons and can even lift yourself out of a hole it isn't all that much.

You do know your own body weight has nothing to do with your carrying capacity in palladium rules, right?

Yes we know that. But 1) the disconnect is still there (its like saying that a 150 pound person can only lift 50 lbs) and 2) It can be an issue if want to climb, or say a parent wants to lift a child or....

I'm very strong for a 160lb guy I have carried 300lb people. Squat nearly 800lbs my arms are weak can only curl 60lbs :/ but military press 120lbs for sets and press my body weight military style once. Some one do the math and tell me my physical strength. Please.

say652 wrote:I'm very strong for a 160lb guy I have carried 300lb people. Squat nearly 800lbs my arms are weak can only curl 60lbs :/ but military press 120lbs for sets and press my body weight military style once. Some one do the math and tell me my physical strength. Please.

Well by the rules you have to have a PS40 to do that
Carry is PSx10, so to carry 300Lbs you need a PS 30 BUT
Max Lift is PSx20, so if you can Squat 800, that's a PS 40....

Halved for being a crazy and equals ps20 wow rules are kinda close to reality.

Giant2005 wrote:

say652 wrote:in RIFTS where the supernatural strength lift is a joke. We house ruled Giant Robots add their weight to their lift. For dragons and other supernatural creatures we use a weightless rule. body weight doesn't affect their movement or strength. makin handstands backflips etc. possible for these big heavy creatures.

It isn't a joke. What you posted is closer to the joke...
Why should a Dragon be able to lift its own weight? Elephants can't, no large animals can regardless of how strong they are - they is what nature is. Small animals can lift more than their body weight, medium animals can lift their body weight and large animals can lift less than their body weight. Rifts is doing well to follow reality.

Elephants and other large animals do not have a Supernatural Strength and Dragons do! Dragons are supposed to be unimaginatively stronger than any normal large animal.

P.S. After doing some quick research an Elephant can lift 800lbs with its trunk, 1,000lbs with its mouth and carry 1,200lbs on its back. So if an Elephant had a Supernatural Strength it could carry 18,000lbs on its back.

Nightfactory wrote:

eliakon wrote:Yes we know that. But 1) the disconnect is still there (its like saying that a 150 pound person can only lift 50 lbs)

I don't know if that's entirely unrealistic in some cases. There are plenty of people who weigh significantly more than 150lbs but can barely lift 50-100lbs. I don't think that one's weigh should be indicative of how much one can lift. Just because you weigh a lot doesn't mean you are strong.

I think eliakon has the right of it. I am a wimp who can barely carry 50 lbs. But my body weight is considerably more than that and I'm able to walk. I am no longer able to do chin-ups (that was a long time ago), which would indicate an ability to carry my weight.

A dragon can walk and carry that additional 16 tons, but can't do chin-ups.

arouetta wrote:

Nightfactory wrote:

eliakon wrote:Yes we know that. But 1) the disconnect is still there (its like saying that a 150 pound person can only lift 50 lbs)

I don't know if that's entirely unrealistic in some cases. There are plenty of people who weigh significantly more than 150lbs but can barely lift 50-100lbs. I don't think that one's weigh should be indicative of how much one can lift. Just because you weigh a lot doesn't mean you are strong.

I think eliakon has the right of it. I am a wimp who can barely carry 50 lbs. But my body weight is considerably more than that and I'm able to walk. I am no longer able to do chin-ups (that was a long time ago), which would indicate an ability to carry my weight.

A dragon can walk and carry that additional 16 tons, but can't do chin-ups.

As a person with a normal Strength of 5 (based on your ability to only carry 50lbs) you have point. However You as a person who has a Supernatural Strength of 5 would be able to carry 1,500lbs.

People keep missing the fact that we are talking about a creature of Magic with a Supernatural Strength.