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I read in a post that Shifters may be able to learn temporal magic at 10th level.
Where is this written?
I see a topic on the linkage to a God of Magic, and subject to GM discretion, but don't know of other references.

Thanks,
Mal

Not that I've seen in my copy of the R:UE, which is 1st Printing (2005). And you're reference is correct, per the God of Magic supernatural link, a Shifter can access lesser known forms of magic, with Temporal Magic a possibility, subject to GM discretion.

If this has been updated in a later printing of the R:UE, please do let us know.

=)

The Rifts: Book of Magic page 243, in the opening page introducing the Temporal Magic section, the following is written: "Only high level practitioners of magic (9th level and higher) ever get the opportunity to learn Temporal Magic (and even then, they rarely gain access to spells above 12th level)."

As far as the O.C.C. description goes, beside the note in the link to the god of magic I don't see anything like this listed in the Shifter O.C.C. descriptions in Rifts: Ultimate Edition, Rifts: Dark Conversions, or Rifts Dimension Book 7: The One with Galactus on the Cover.

I don't think there's actually a lelvel limit for LLW and Shifters to learn Temporal Magic, it's just that such spells are not part of those they can learn by natural advancement, and sources knowledgeable in it (temporal raiders, wizards and warriors) are so rare and protective of it.

The megaversal builder, call it by its name.

Malleable wrote:I read in a post that Shifters may be able to learn temporal magic at 10th level.
Where is this written?
I see a topic on the linkage to a God of Magic, and subject to GM discretion, but don't know of other references.

Thanks,
Mal

Can you link to the post where you saw it written about Shifters learning Temporal Magic at level 10? Maybe there's some context in the conversation that we're missing which would help to better figure out where this came from.

Here is where Nekira posted it:

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/foru ... 9&t=135015

Thanks guys,
Mal

I did a forum search and found the last time Nekira posted that bit of information was a little over a year ago now. It was questioned by Grand Paladin and this was the closest thing to a response that Nekira decided to provide.

So in answer to the original question, that statement does not appear to be specifically mentioned anywhere in a book. But the Rifts Book of Magic and the Rifts World Book 3: England both state that only "high level" practitioners of magic (9th level and higher) ever get the opportunity to learn Temporal Magic, and rarely does this opportunity allow for spells above 12th level to be learned. Which means that Nekira wasn't wrong in saying that Shifters could begin learning Temporal Magic at 10th level... But the implications in that statement aren't correct as a 10th level Shifter doesn't just get to start selecting Temporal Magic.

Glistam wrote:I did a forum search and found the last time Nekira posted that bit of information was a little over a year ago now. It was questioned by Grand Paladin and this was the closest thing to a response that Nekira decided to provide.

So in answer to the original question, that statement does not appear to be specifically mentioned anywhere in a book. But the Rifts Book of Magic and the Rifts World Book 3: England both state that only "high level" practitioners of magic (9th level and higher) ever get the opportunity to learn Temporal Magic, and rarely does this opportunity allow for spells above 12th level to be learned. Which means that Nekira wasn't wrong in saying that Shifters could begin learning Temporal Magic at 10th level... But the implications in that statement aren't correct as a 10th level Shifter doesn't just get to start selecting Temporal Magic.

I did remember that thread, but couldn't remember if Nekira had provided a substantive response. Thanks for the look up Glistam!
And I also agree 100% with your interpretation above.

Yeah, thanks guys. I really dig Temporal magic (and Spatial magic and Phase powers). But would also interested in Shifter/Summoner.

Mal

The books are frustratingly unclear, and the example NPCs who know temporal magic are even more confusing. I would personally say that a mage who has gotten to 10th level can always pick up one if they can find a tutor/copy, and that those who are lower level can....if the GM permits it.

eliakon wrote:The books are frustratingly unclear, and the example NPCs who know temporal magic are even more confusing. I would personally say that a mage who has gotten to 10th level can always pick up one if they can find a tutor/copy, and that those who are lower level can....if the GM permits it.

As long as they aren't lower than 9th level.

Glistam wrote:

eliakon wrote:The books are frustratingly unclear, and the example NPCs who know temporal magic are even more confusing. I would personally say that a mage who has gotten to 10th level can always pick up one if they can find a tutor/copy, and that those who are lower level can....if the GM permits it.

As long as they aren't lower than 9th level.

Well we have at least one NPC who knows Temporal spells, is less than 9th level, and is not a Temporal class. This is compounded by the decision to allow one of the Temporal spells to become a common invocation in HU2, and PF2. Which could mean that Temporal magic is no different from Invocations, and the access is strictly controlled to maintain a monopoly....or it might not. Like I said its confusing.

There are a few spells that were Temporal magic which appear in those spell lists, not just one. It does seem to be a branch of invocation magic that is just tightly contolled by those who know it - moreso than usual invocations. Also, NPC's don't always follow the rules. This is a known "issue" with Palladium.

Glistam wrote:There are a few spells that were Temporal magic which appear in those spell lists, not just one. It does seem to be a branch of invocation magic that is just tightly contolled by those who know it - moreso than usual invocations. Also, NPC's don't always follow the rules. This is a known "issue" with Palladium.

My personal suspicion is that its so tightly controlled BECAUSE of those 'common spells'. At one time, I imagine that only Temporal Mages had spells like Time Slip, and Dimensional Pocket....but they have slowly leaked out over the ages, and to help maintain relevance they try to control access as much as possible. But as I said, that's just a personal view there.

This 'only ... ever get the opportunity' thing is clearly something to ignore.

If only because by default, Twizards/Twarriors are also practitioners of magic and start with it at level 1. It does not say "OTHER practitioners" and is clearly disproven by these OCCs beginning with them.

Even then, there's an OCC in spirit west (Paradox Shaman) who learns far prior to 9, and Prometheans can learn it it too.

Far as I'm concerned, anyone who can buy spells can learn temporal magic at first level.

If this 9+ thing is taken to mean anything, I would say it applies only to learning the spells on your own via the free per-level.