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I have quite the little problem with my player's heavy weapon skills. I'm sure this has been covered, but I failed to find anything on it. The Words are way to common. haha

The issue is that Rifts Ultimate has the skills WP Heavy Mega Damage Weapons and WP Heavy Military Weapons. The GM Guide has WP Heavy Energy Weapons and WP Heavy Weapons. There is an obvious conflict with these skills. Heavy MD Weapons just basically encompasses all the heavy weapons and in the GM guide they have split it between two skills.

One of my players is making a Anti-Robot Headhunter "Robot Slammer" and he is upset about not getting the bonuses that would come as he levels for the weapon systems on his NG Samson if going with the GM Guide. (Weapons Systems is a separate issue. We are just trying to hash out what to do with these 4 skills, atm)

I need to know some general thoughts that you guys and gals have. You always have really good input on these matters. The overall question would be that should have all 4 skills available, or should I just take out the ultimate skills and let the GM Guide skills remain?

**Side question: Can the NG Samson hold regular weapon in it's big robot hands?

Heavy Weapons covers "Antique" non-megadamage heavy weapons like the Ma Deuce and light machineguns incapable of MDC fire (without special ammunition like Ramjets and the like). It also covers older, weaker style grenade launchers that do 2d4*10 SDC and the like.

Heavy mega Damage Weapons covers fully modernized grenade launchers and rail guns and MDC-converted machineguns.

And yes, there are special ammunition that exists to let Pre-golden-age era heavy weapons deal MDC damage, but they still use the non-mega damage heavy weapon WP, as the aiming and matiance routines would be different.

Basically, any Heavy Weapon from 1990 and prior uses heavy Weapons, any Heavy Weapon from the golden age onward uses heavy mega damage weapons.

So yes, while both say they cover "grenade launchers", a Northern Gun grenade launcher is a very different beast from a 1960's era grenade launcher. much like how W.P. Rifles dosn't really help you use Muskets. the proceedures and accurancy simply don't come close enough for the WP to apply to both kinds.

What do you feel about the WP skills I mentioned from GM Guide? Should I exclude those and just use the Rifts Ultimate ones you explained?

Yeah, the Rifts Ultimate Modern Weapon W.P.'s supersede and replace the GM Guide W.P.'s. You'll notice the rules for them are different too. It all changed.

Dinne wrote:What do you feel about the WP skills I mentioned from GM Guide? Should I exclude those and just use the Rifts Ultimate ones you explained?

The Rifts Ultimate skill list trumps the Rifts GMG's skill list. in any conflict Ultimate holds. in the case of a skill or two that's in the GMG that is not in RUE, it still exists but was just cut for space.

Glistam wrote:Yeah, the Rifts Ultimate Modern Weapon W.P.'s supersede and replace the GM Guide W.P.'s. You'll notice the rules for them are different too. It all changed.

But what if you're playing by RMB because you just couldn't get the RUE?

Svartalf wrote:

Glistam wrote:Yeah, the Rifts Ultimate Modern Weapon W.P.'s supersede and replace the GM Guide W.P.'s. You'll notice the rules for them are different too. It all changed.

But what if you're playing by RMB because you just couldn't get the RUE?

Then there should be little to no issue using the Rifts: Game Master's Guide Modern W.P.'s alongside of and/or in place of the Rifts Main Book Modern W.P.'s.

Svartalf wrote:

Glistam wrote:Yeah, the Rifts Ultimate Modern Weapon W.P.'s supersede and replace the GM Guide W.P.'s. You'll notice the rules for them are different too. It all changed.

But what if you're playing by RMB because you just couldn't get the RUE?

Isn't that a self-answering question?
If you're not using X, then do not consider X.

Or in this case, why ask about the rules of R:UE affecting the RMB when you're not using R:UE?

Dinne wrote:**Side question: Can the NG Samson hold regular weapon in it's big robot hands?

If by "regular weapon" you mean a non-giant-sized weapon, the answer is that he can hold it, but cannot use it like a weapon, unless that weapon gets adapted for giant hands (there are places that specifically do this).

Thank you for this clarification. I feel like I should have known this! ><

Nightfactory wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:a Northern Gun grenade launcher is a very different beast from a 1960's era grenade launcher.

That's debatable.

I think the thread has the right idea. I have always treated this as tech based. An advanced CS grenade launcher is W. P. Heavy M.D. Weapons, but the Welington Industries WI-GL4 or WI-GL20 grenade launchers are covered under W. P. Heavy Military Weapons even though it is MD just because the design is essentially a 20th century weapon even thought the materials and explosive are MD.

Anybody else do it this way?

I let bonuses cover either way, as long as the WP is similar. If the weapon jams or needs to be reloaded though, you might have problems.

Yeah. Or a misfire with a grenade launcher could be tricky, or a runaway gun or an MD round exploding in an M2 because the head spacing is SNAFUed (shudder).