Post-Apocalyptic...?

[Vrykolas2k]

Ok so I've been running and playing this game for a long time, and it seems like ever since World Book 5, Rifts has lost its apocalyptic edge...
I mean, seriously it went from a few lightly populated cities, vast tracts of wilderness and the occasional town to... the CS fielding a larger army than we had in WWII.
I've been writing my own game, which is truly post-apocalypse... think I'll make a version with Palladium rules and submit the thing (really it wouldn't take that much work, just system stuff; except for how I have magick working, that will be the biggest obstacle).
It would be primarily SDC setting with light MD (meaning a tank might have 25 MDC and its cannon would do 1d6 MD).
Because Rifts has gotten away from what attracted me to it in the first place. And a lot if the people I talk to say the same thing.
Interest?

[Alrik Vas]

Several millions of credits. That's what it costs to do the really cool stuff. If you're lucky, it's just a few hundred-thousand. How do the PC's make that money?

If they can't, they don't really travel. If they don't travel, they don't see the hidden, far off mega cities of the CS, the sprawl of the Atlantean cities with their airships hovering about, the massive pyramids of the Phoenix Empire, they won't know the awesome of Lemuria, see Camelot's walls...they'll sit in their little town, maybe a hundred miles from it and then they'll die one day.

You know, most people don't get to see these things. They don't have the power to fly, they don't have money to hitch a ride, they don't even know where these things ARE. They're just myths and stories to them.

We look at a map, we know where it is. Do the PC's have maps? Who made it? Is it accurate? It's easy to get lost, after all.

All I'm saying is that the post-apocalyptic feel of Rifts, though it has worn off a great deal, is still there. It's just difficult to hold onto 300 years after the cataclysm when humans have rediscovered so much technology and embraced so much magic.

Yet the world is still a big place, it's easy to never see much of it.

[Alrik Vas]

You know, I often make the "black market items" a character starts with something interesting from before the Rifts.

Like, one guy had a map of 1980s manhattan. Another had a redbull drink cooler, another guy had an autographed photo of Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday that said, "I'll be your Huckleberry. -Val" while another had a boxed set of NYPD Blue season Three. Then they rolled on the amount each was worth according to what they got from their OCC.

Was pretty entertaining as they didn't always want to give these things up.

[Vrykolas2k]

Ok so I've been running and playing this game for a long time, and it seems like ever since World Book 5, Rifts has lost its apocalyptic edge... I mean, seriously it went from a few lightly populated cities, vast tracts of wilderness and the occasional town to... the CS fielding a larger army than we had in WWII.

That's the nature of creative writing, though. Writers have tried to fill up the empty spaces in the world with new peoples to interact with, new places to go, etc. I would've been surprised if this didn't happen.

On the other hand, the USA is still a lot less populated than it was in pre-rifts days and most of the cities are gone. There are a lot of very small towns and communities but huge cities are still few and far between, particularly in the central, western, and southern parts of the US.

I've been writing my own game, which is truly post-apocalypse... think I'll make a version with Palladium rules and submit the thing (really it wouldn't take that much work, just system stuff; except for how I have magick working, that will be the biggest obstacle).
It would be primarily SDC setting with light MD (meaning a tank might have 25 MDC and its cannon would do 1d6 MD).

Good luck, but I think you're wasting your time. The game is what it is. I think its infinitely unlikely that Palladium would agree to a revisionist history of their current state of the world. However, it sounds like a good idea for your own game setting.

Because Rifts has gotten away from what attracted me to it in the first place. And a lot if the people I talk to say the same thing.
Interest?

Honestly, not really. As anyone familar with RPGs knows: you can't please everybody.

I wasn't going to re-write Rifts lol, it's it's own world (kinda like Splicers or Manhunter... different dimensions).

[Warshield73]

I have a few friends that have the same complaint about what Rifts has become and I will admit that when I first read the description of Rifts in an in the back of a Robotech book more then 20 years ago I kind of got a Thundarr the Barbarian sort of vibe. But as far as my game goes I never really ran it as "empty" post apocalypse. RMB said that it had been at least 200 years and as much as 300 years since the coming of the rifts, as well as mentioning cities and kingdoms all over the North America. The fact that there was so much advanced, earth based, technology in the world only 300 years after the fall means that some places (cities or nations) had to survivor at least partially intact form the coming of the Rifts.

With just RMB and SB1 you had 3 major North American corporations (Wilks, NG, & Cyberworks), plus a foreign corporation (Triax) all doing business. Selling robots and power armors, weapons and armor, all for credits. This means trade networks and distribution with, at least rudimentary banking and commerce. A real post apocalypse setting, like After the Bomb or Invid Invasion/Robotech: New Generation, doesn't have these things. It is scavenging and barter, not credits.

Finally, I did some research. I have a lot of first run Rifts books plus TMNT & Robotech books with ads for rifts just before and after it came out and I don't really see any advertisements calling it a post apocalypse setting. At the time PB already had those in the form of Invid Invasion and After the Bomb.

Chaos Earth is the real post apocalypse setting, and in that one I hope they keep a wide open, everybody sheltering in place and every year there is less and less tech for our heroes to use, scavenge and barter for.

Just my 1.33 cents worth.

[Greyaxe]

I have a few friends that have the same complaint about what Rifts has become and I will admit that when I first read the description of Rifts in an in the back of a Robotech book more then 20 years ago I kind of got a Thundarr the Barbarian sort of vibe. But as far as my game goes I never really ran it as "empty" post apocalypse. RMB said that it had been at least 200 years and as much as 300 years since the coming of the rifts, as well as mentioning cities and kingdoms all over the North America. The fact that there was so much advanced, earth based, technology in the world only 300 years after the fall means that some places (cities or nations) had to survivor at least partially intact form the coming of the Rifts.

With just RMB and SB1 you had 3 major North American corporations (Wilks, NG, & Cyberworks), plus a foreign corporation (Triax) all doing business. Selling robots and power armors, weapons and armor, all for credits. This means trade networks and distribution with, at least rudimentary banking and commerce. A real post apocalypse setting, like After the Bomb or Invid Invasion/Robotech: New Generation, doesn't have these things. It is scavenging and barter, not credits.

Finally, I did some research. I have a lot of first run Rifts books plus TMNT & Robotech books with ads for rifts just before and after it came out and I don't really see any advertisements calling it a post apocalypse setting. At the time PB already had those in the form of Invid Invasion and After the Bomb.

Chaos Earth is the real post apocalypse setting, and in that one I hope they keep a wide open, everybody sheltering in place and every year there is less and less tech for our heroes to use, scavenge and barter for.

Just my 1.33 cents worth.

Great post.

[glitterboy2098]

rifts has never been very roadwarrior/thunderdome/fallout post-apoc, despite the aesthetics from them cropping up from time to time. it has more in common setting wise with the original mad max film*, the postman, and Judge Dread.



* (where society is strained along the edges, but not gone)

[say652]

Yea seems about time for a massive CS troop movement. The army is large enough to claim most of middle America clean into canada.

[Jerell]

Also somewhat depends on how hostile things are, and how much local support they can get, and how robust the supply trains and logistics are. The further out you go from friendly territory the more room and time enemies have to hit/blow up/steal your stuff easier. They're good obviously, but how recovered are they after taking out the upstarts in Tolkeen? Also how many resources go into securing their boarders? A question that bears some thought I think.

[Warshield73]

rifts has never been very roadwarrior/thunderdome/fallout post-apoc, despite the aesthetics from them cropping up from time to time. it has more in common setting wise with the original mad max film*, the postman, and Judge Dread.

* (where society is strained along the edges, but not gone)

As a history teacher (or history student before that) I have always run Rifts as a sort of 16th or 17th century analog. Some places are very civilized and safe where the residents live rather sheltered lives. Other areas are lawless and uncivilized and warzones can be anywhere. In this world your safe in cities but travel, even medium distances, can be deadly. Pirates and games of criminals can be anywhere once you leave the areas firmly controlled by a major power.

I've always thought Judge Dredd was a great representation of Rifts. I still hope that when (hopefully not if) they do more for Chaos Earth that they really do keep a very empty, civilization crumbling sort of setting. I always thought that if I could run a CE game I would have it as a reducing environment, meaning areas of civilization would be disappearing.

Your adventure group might spend a few days in a fortified are of a city that has been holding out against the monsters, they have tech everywhere, lots of weapons, medicine, and plenty of food. A few weeks later they go through the same area and it's all gone. Wiped away by plague, demons, or human renegades. If you play CE right you can actually watch the end of the world.

[Alrik Vas]

The CS will get eaten by the bugs. Sad, but true.

[Jerell]

Like, no way man, I saw Starship Troopers.

<stands up> "I did my part!"

[Warshield73]

As a history teacher (or history student before that) I have always run Rifts as a sort of 16th or 17th century analog. Some places are very civilized and safe where the residents live rather sheltered lives. Other areas are lawless and uncivilized and warzones can be anywhere. In this world your safe in cities but travel, even medium distances, can be deadly. Pirates and games of criminals can be anywhere once you leave the areas firmly controlled by a major power.

That's typically how I tend to run it, too. PC's traveling in predominantly CS (or Triax) (or insert major power here) controled regions will find a lot less random lawlessness and dangerous creatures, as opposed to PC's traveling well beyond the borders of such regions.

And places controlled by likes of Atlantis, Federation of Magic, Phoenix Empire, or other baddies can be extremely dangerous no matter who you run into.

I also play up the lack of communications in Rifts. No satellites. No internets (s intentional). You can be only 100 miles from the nearest town but it can take two days to travel there by vehicle and radio communications might be impossible due to terrain or ley line interference. I think some people look at the map of Rifts North America and think "There are so many civilized places, the world is full". They forget how isolating Rifts Earth is with the lack of highways and satellite communications. You add in the fact that air travel is so dangerous with the flying predators and random rifts and the world gets even bigger.

[Warshield73]

The CS will get eaten by the bugs. Sad, but true.

No way. The CS will nuke all of northern north america before they let that happen.

All of North America? Keep going. I have a feeling that if Prosek knows he's going down he is going to try and do some damage to Atlantis and the Xiticix on his way out.

Of course, all that PPE into the lines and we might Chaos Earth Part Deux.

[eliakon]

As a history teacher (or history student before that) I have always run Rifts as a sort of 16th or 17th century analog. Some places are very civilized and safe where the residents live rather sheltered lives. Other areas are lawless and uncivilized and warzones can be anywhere. In this world your safe in cities but travel, even medium distances, can be deadly. Pirates and games of criminals can be anywhere once you leave the areas firmly controlled by a major power.

That's typically how I tend to run it, too. PC's traveling in predominantly CS (or Triax) (or insert major power here) controled regions will find a lot less random lawlessness and dangerous creatures, as opposed to PC's traveling well beyond the borders of such regions.

And places controlled by likes of Atlantis, Federation of Magic, Phoenix Empire, or other baddies can be extremely dangerous no matter who you run into.

I also play up the lack of communications in Rifts. No satellites. No internets (s intentional). You can be only 100 miles from the nearest town but it can take two days to travel there by vehicle and radio communications might be impossible due to terrain or ley line interference. I think some people look at the map of Rifts North America and think "There are so many civilized places, the world is full". They forget how isolating Rifts Earth is with the lack of highways and satellite communications. You add in the fact that air travel is so dangerous with the flying predators and random rifts and the world gets even bigger.

Except of course air travel is so safe that they have a commercial air line that runs regular flights.....and unless your on a horse travel between towns is a matter of hours not days, especially if you have hover craft.

[Warshield73]

Except of course air travel is so safe that they have a commercial air line that runs regular flights.....and unless your on a horse travel between towns is a matter of hours not days, especially if you have hover craft.

The only "airline" I know of in Rifts is in Merc Town, and as far as I know it only goes a few places in the immediate area (if I am missing one let me know what book it's in please). Also, even that book talks about the dangers of air travel and random rifts, and describes its use as very limited. Even NG talks about how dangerous it is for them to transport goods over long distances. The biggest example of how dangerous it is long distance, like crossing the ocean. See how bad the CS got it when they went to help the NGR for Sea Storm.

As for the travel I know some people use the max speed of a vehicle and ignore terrain when they are determining travel time but I don't. Max speed is just that, the maximum speed you can go during combat or emergencies and if you read the penalties for piloting skills they are pretty harsh. If you use terrain, especially rivers which have gotten bigger and harder to cross, what would be a 3 or 4 hour trip at max speed turns into a day or two as you go around rushing rivers and large outcroppings.

Now you are correct that if everyone in your group has a flying power armor or hover cycle you can travel very quickly and cut those times down to nothing. But that speed comes at the loss of a whole lot of firepower and other equipment. You put just one Glitter Boy, or Big Boss carrying the teams equipment, or a large hover vehicle that can not cross large bodies of water and you are crawling my friend.

[eliakon]

Except of course air travel is so safe that they have a commercial air line that runs regular flights.....and unless your on a horse travel between towns is a matter of hours not days, especially if you have hover craft.

The only "airline" I know of in Rifts is in Merc Town, and as far as I know it only goes a few places in the immediate area (if I am missing one let me know what book it's in please). Also, even that book talks about the dangers of air travel and random rifts, and describes its use as very limited. Even NG talks about how dangerous it is for them to transport goods over long distances. The biggest example of how dangerous it is long distance, like crossing the ocean. See how bad the CS got it when they went to help the NGR for Sea Storm.

As for the travel I know some people use the max speed of a vehicle and ignore terrain when they are determining travel time but I don't. Max speed is just that, the maximum speed you can go during combat or emergencies and if you read the penalties for piloting skills they are pretty harsh. If you use terrain, especially rivers which have gotten bigger and harder to cross, what would be a 3 or 4 hour trip at max speed turns into a day or two as you go around rushing rivers and large outcroppings.

Now you are correct that if everyone in your group has a flying power armor or hover cycle you can travel very quickly and cut those times down to nothing. But that speed comes at the loss of a whole lot of firepower and other equipment. You put just one Glitter Boy, or Big Boss carrying the teams equipment, or a large hover vehicle that can not cross large bodies of water and you are crawling my friend.

MercTown has a commercial airport that is served by four separate airlines.
These airlines services: Kingsdale, Lazlo, (Formerly) Tolkeen, Ishpeming, Mastinique Imperium, New Lazlo, Lazlo, the GAW city states, Fort El Dorado, Newtown, Los Alamos, CS Lone Star, and El Paso.
And its so safe that at least one of the firms has offers a guarantee that cargo will be delivered next day!

As for travel speeds. Top speed isn't the issue if towns are 100 miles apart and your saying days....that's a speed of 5-10MPH. That's walking speeds, not vehicle speeds. At a reasonable off road speed of 30mph you can cover that in just over 3 hours.

[Alrik Vas]

I really don't know how the airport thing went to print.

When I run it, the expense is enormous, and there are no guarantees.
So far, long distance air travel has ended badly for my group on multiple counts. Only once did it work, and they were still almost shot down by Atlantis flyers.

[Warshield73]

MercTown has a commercial airport that is served by four separate airlines.
These airlines services: Kingsdale, Lazlo, (Formerly) Tolkeen, Ishpeming, Mastinique Imperium, New Lazlo, Lazlo, the GAW city states, Fort El Dorado, Newtown, Los Alamos, CS Lone Star, and El Paso.
And its so safe that at least one of the firms has offers a guarantee that cargo will be delivered next day!

Thanks for the reference. I really had forgotten all about this. I would point out though that it is very regional and covers only a small part of even North America and does nothing to get you to areas of the World. But your point is solid.

I really don't know how the airport thing went to print.

I am with you on this.

When I run it, the expense is enormous, and there are no guarantees.
So far, long distance air travel has ended badly for my group on multiple counts. Only once did it work, and they were still almost shot down by Atlantis flyers.

Same here, it just conflicts with too many other books.

As for travel speeds. Top speed isn't the issue if towns are 100 miles apart and your saying days....that's a speed of 5-10MPH. That's walking speeds, not vehicle speeds. At a reasonable off road speed of 30mph you can cover that in just over 3 hours.

You're right on this too. I usually assume a 20-30 MPH off road speed depending on weather, but like I said, I count obstacles. A simple 100 mile trip could end up being 115 to 125 miles easy. For most of my players though they tend to be very cautious when traveling. Stopping every few miles to scout for trouble (when they had money they used drones for this) using PA or magic. Also, most cities in Rifts are more then 100 miles apart so I was thinking in those terms. But you are correct, your average adventure team when I run can make a 100 mile trip 2 to 4 hours, depending on terrain.