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In a recent game a group of heroes ran into some infected lab animals and were contaminated with a Mutagenic Retro-Virus and a couple of the players failed their saves. One of the characters has Healing Factor and they tried a Chi Healing on the other. The question is would either of those stop, prevent, reverse, or cure the effects of the disease?

SpiritInterface wrote:In a recent game a group of heroes ran into some infected lab animals and were contaminated with a Mutagenic Retro-Virus and a couple of the players failed their saves. One of the characters has Healing Factor and they tried a Chi Healing on the other. The question is would either of those stop, prevent, reverse, or cure the effects of the disease?

Ask the GM.
No seriously. When you get into exotic stuff like "Mutagenic Retro-Virus" and the like your deep into the realms of Technobabble, and GM Fiat. So....Sometimes you could cure it, sometimes not. It would especially depend on how your GM looks at things like genetic damage or mutations. Are they 'fixable' or 'permanent'?

Consider the healing limits of Reconstruction (Rifts W32:Lemuria, Lemurian Biomancy Level 12, page 106) particularly the note at the end.

Ultimately at its basic level a genetic change (harmful) would fundamentally require a genetic change (helpful) to fix the mutations. In Rifts it would take someone like Gene-Splicers, Gene-Tech, Lone Star, possibly an appropriate Rogue Scientist specialist, or similar to create such a cure.

Beyond that a sufficient supernatural healing effect (not simply magic) should be able to fix things though finding a sufficient one would likely be a long-term campaign goal. This would likely require many ongoing quests/missions/tasks to earn a favor from such a capable being. Many evil supernatural effects can do bizarre things to the nature of folks, thus goodly supernatural effects (forces of light/deific supernatural healing) should be more than sufficient to heal any debilitation.

As for the super ability of Healing Factor: if the being were intentionally and willingly genetically altered to gain additional mutant abilities would Healing Factor simply undo them?

Perhaps a more ideal possibility would be having both Healing Factor and either Karmic Power or Immortality which in HU allow for combined effects / secondary benefits. These effects are at player/GM discretion and may vary greatly from one being with that power combo to the next (uniqueness factors). Karma allowing it to distinguish from good/evil (and just plain lucky) and Immortality simply radically enhanced self healing. Combining with other powers may also provide sufficient grounds for a unique combo secondary ability.

Ok.
Chi healing. Yea I would let that work.
Healing Factor. I would say it SPED up the virus.

Characters with Healing Factor are immune to disease, although I suppose a virus specifically engineered to affect superbeings could get around this.

Chi Healing is completely ineffective against disease.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Characters with Healing Factor are immune to disease, although I suppose a virus specifically engineered to affect superbeings could get around this.

Chi Healing is completely ineffective against disease.

With Healing Factor it is not so cut and dried, first it says you are immune, then it gives a bonus to save, then it says that if you fail the save 1/3 effect.

the GM wanted a consensus of opinion from the players before he decides. I threw it up on the forum to see what everyone else thought.

SpiritInterface wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Characters with Healing Factor are immune to disease, although I suppose a virus specifically engineered to affect superbeings could get around this.

With Healing Factor it is not so cut and dried, first it says you are immune, then it gives a bonus to save, then it says that if you fail the save 1/3 effect.

The bonus to save and one-third effect applies to drugs, toxins, and poisons, not diseases (although it does initially say that you're immune to toxins, too).

I would use gm handwaviam and say the increased immune system sped up the mutagenic virus.

say652 wrote:I would use gm handwaviam and say the increased immune system sped up the mutagenic virus.

That really doesn't make any sense, a better immune system should be slowing something like that down not accelerating it. The entire point of an immune system is to fight off infectious bodies not help them along.

Actually sometimes an acclerated immune system combined with a failed save=1/3 effect. Jussayin.

Nightmask wrote:

say652 wrote:I would use gm handwaviam and say the increased immune system sped up the mutagenic virus.

That really doesn't make any sense, a better immune system should be slowing something like that down not accelerating it. The entire point of an immune system is to fight off infectious bodies not help them along.

A retrovirus splices itself into your DNA, so that your own cells synthesize more virus. If we assume that the rapid healing effect arises from accelerated DNA replication, then Healing Factor and similar powers could indeed exacerbate a retroviral infection.

On the other hand, it could be that the power provides absolute immunity to any form of disease through a combination of an aggressive immune system, enhanced iRNA activity, and perhaps some other mechanism unknown to science.

As the precise biological basis for super abilities is unspecified, the GM is free be as technical or as arbitrary as desired.

Of topic but a reference for my reasoning. Impulse got his leg broken by slade. Cyborg starts going crazy rushing him to the hospital. Kid flash heals super fast but not properly. If his leg wasnt set he would have healed and his leg would be crippled.

say652 wrote:Of topic but a reference for my reasoning. Impulse got his leg broken by slade. Cyborg starts going crazy rushing him to the hospital. Kid flash heals super fast but not properly. If his leg wasnt set he would have healed and his leg would be crippled.

That wouldn't provide a basis for saying a healing factor, which is an enhanced ability for the body to fight off infection and repair damage, would provide for a disease spreading faster when all examples of healing factors I've ever seen have been clear about them slowing or stopping completely infectious diseases. Whether you've an enhanced ability to heal or not if you don't set a broken bone properly it will heal wrong and leave you crippled unless it's possible to rebreak it and set it correctly. All that speedy healing does is make it harder on you to get it set before the bone knits because it's reducing the amount of time available to set it properly. Ghost Rider once used that against a newly enhanced villain by intentionally breaking his limbs and holding them so they'd regenerate improperly to render him helpless, and Savage Dragon once had to have bones broken to reset them properly after his own regenerative abilities left him with improperly set bones healing back wrong.

So i guess I just learned the difference between bio-regeneration and healing factor. My players are gonna be miffed. Thanks Nightmask

I want to thank everyone for their input, it added others thoughts and opinions to the discussion. The GMs got together this last weekend and discussed how all the different healing abilities worked and what they covered.

For clarification the group I game with play on a shared world with 3 steady GMs and the occasional guest GM, so every once in awhile we have a conflict of opinion show up. Since the other GMs are Luddites they ask me to bring things up onto the forum from time to time.

SpiritInterface wrote:I want to thank everyone for their input, it added others thoughts and opinions to the discussion. The GMs got together this last weekend and discussed how all the different healing abilities worked and what they covered.

For clarification the group I game with play on a shared world with 3 steady GMs and the occasional guest GM, so every once in awhile we have a conflict of opinion show up. Since the other GMs are Luddites they ask me to bring things up onto the forum from time to time.

Hopefully not a 'Marvel Zombies' conclusion, where the zombie virus worked on EVERYONE, no matter what their invulnerabilities or how certain they should have been (like Wolverine) to fight it off. Players tend to not enjoy it when they select or randomly acquire a power that should protect them from something only for the GM to go 'gee sorry no it doesn't it's special' making them particularly annoyed if they had to select or purchase the power only for the GM to make it clear he'll ignore it and make the PC vulnerable whenever he feels like.

Nightmask wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:I want to thank everyone for their input, it added others thoughts and opinions to the discussion. The GMs got together this last weekend and discussed how all the different healing abilities worked and what they covered.

For clarification the group I game with play on a shared world with 3 steady GMs and the occasional guest GM, so every once in awhile we have a conflict of opinion show up. Since the other GMs are Luddites they ask me to bring things up onto the forum from time to time.

Hopefully not a 'Marvel Zombies' conclusion, where the zombie virus worked on EVERYONE, no matter what their invulnerabilities or how certain they should have been (like Wolverine) to fight it off. Players tend to not enjoy it when they select or randomly acquire a power that should protect them from something only for the GM to go 'gee sorry no it doesn't it's special' making them particularly annoyed if they had to select or purchase the power only for the GM to make it clear he'll ignore it and make the PC vulnerable whenever he feels like.

Healing factor will fight off leathal deseases and other things that will kill you! Powers like psychic, and Chi purification will prevent or cure diseases imeadately. Martial arts cleansing spirit will prevent or cure diseases imeadiately. I can't remember the whole list, another of the GMs is writing it up. But in general unless there is a reasonable reason (plot device) heroes with healing powers or natural regeneration are fairly resistant to normal diseases and illness.