AoI and half damage from fire lighting and cold

[Thinyser]

So in the PFRPG it says that magic fire lightning and cold does half damage.
The Rifts version in BoM says those same things do half damage to it. "It" referring to the AoI.

How do you run this?

Is it that the AoI takes 1/2 damage (which is subtracted from its SDC/MDC) and the character is protected fully from the remainder?

Or that the AoI takes 1/2 damage and the other half gets through to damage the character (very deadly if that damage is MDC and the character is SDC)?

[Killer Cyborg]

If the attack hits the person, the armor doesn't factor.
If the attack hits the armor, then the person doesn't factor.

So if the armor takes half damage, the other half of the damage does what it always does, just disappear.

[Thinyser]

If the attack hits the person, the armor doesn't factor.
If the attack hits the armor, then the person doesn't factor.

So if the armor takes half damage, the other half of the damage does what it always does, just disappear.

So what if its a magic fire that does not have a strike roll to beat the AR 18, like walking into a circle of fire or wall of fire?

Does the armor take half damage and the person is unharmed?
or does the armor take half damage and the person take the other half
or does the armor take half damage and the person take full damage since he is enveloped in the flames along with the armor.

Personally I think that the armor takes 1/2 damage from the fire and the rest is negated. But I can see an argument for the person taking the other half damage , and in the case of an attack roll beating the AR it makes sense that full damage goes to the person.

[Killer Cyborg]

The armor takes half damage.
Nothing is said about the person being protected.

Say you had a Glitterboy with no helmet.
If the armor gets shot by a laser, it takes 1/2 damage.
If the pilot gets shot, he takes full damage.
The armor is not the person wearing it.

[Thinyser]

So if a mage who is unarmored otherwise has AoI up and gets caught in a MD wall of flame (there is no strike roll and no AR in MD setting anyhow), does his AoI protect him or is he fried instantly by the spell?

What about in an SDC setting where there is an AR but the Fire spell has no strike roll like above?

We are not talking about a suit of armor missing a helmet we are talking about a full (mystical) suit of armor.

[Killer Cyborg]

So if a mage who is unarmored otherwise has AoI up and gets caught in a MD wall of flame (there is no strike roll and no AR in MD setting anyhow), does his AoI protect him or is he fried instantly by the spell?

What about in an SDC setting where there is an AR but the Fire spell has no strike roll like above?

We are not talking about a suit of armor missing a helmet we are talking about a full (mystical) suit of armor.

In a MD setting, AR isn't a factor with AoI, and the MDC of the armor has to be depleted before he takes damage.

In a setting where AoI has an AR, I don't know if it has ever been addressed if Area Of Affect bypasses AR or not. If so, yeah, Mage gets fried.

Correct. The similarity is that in each case, damage can bypass the armor.

[Thinyser]

So if a mage who is unarmored otherwise has AoI up and gets caught in a MD wall of flame (there is no strike roll and no AR in MD setting anyhow), does his AoI protect him or is he fried instantly by the spell?

What about in an SDC setting where there is an AR but the Fire spell has no strike roll like above?

We are not talking about a suit of armor missing a helmet we are talking about a full (mystical) suit of armor.

In a MD setting, AR isn't a factor with AoI, and the MDC of the armor has to be depleted before he takes damage.

In a setting where AoI has an AR, I don't know if it has ever been addressed if Area Of Affect bypasses AR or not. If so, yeah, Mage gets fried.

Correct. The similarity is that in each case, damage can bypass the armor.

Isn't fire that is more than body sized alway area of effect? and why does the lack of AR matter? In Rifts its not sealed any more so than in PF so super heated gasses from MD fire should get right in and crisp you in about 2 seconds flat.

[Killer Cyborg]

So if a mage who is unarmored otherwise has AoI up and gets caught in a MD wall of flame (there is no strike roll and no AR in MD setting anyhow), does his AoI protect him or is he fried instantly by the spell?

What about in an SDC setting where there is an AR but the Fire spell has no strike roll like above?

We are not talking about a suit of armor missing a helmet we are talking about a full (mystical) suit of armor.

In a MD setting, AR isn't a factor with AoI, and the MDC of the armor has to be depleted before he takes damage.

In a setting where AoI has an AR, I don't know if it has ever been addressed if Area Of Affect bypasses AR or not. If so, yeah, Mage gets fried.

Correct. The similarity is that in each case, damage can bypass the armor.

Isn't fire that is more than body sized alway area of effect?

I don't know if that's addressed in the rules.
But the point was that I don't know that the rules actually state that AoE bypasses AR.

and why does the lack of AR matter?

Without AR, then you can't hit the person in the armor without a Called Shot, and an AoE effect cannot be a Called Shot.
So AoE always hits the main body.

[Tor]

These issues become potentially more complicated in SDC settings where the spell has an AR. If it functions like normal AR then cold/fire damage could plausibly hit a character while the spell's still in effect.

Presumably for the armor to take half the damage it has to get hit with it though, and surpassing AR usually means you find a chink and get around it.

[Thinyser]

Ok so with the poll indicating that 100% of the 7 people that voted saying that it takes half damage and the rest is negated that is what I will go with.

Now if it can block out heat based damage from magic fire (one of the most intense heat based attacks) could it also negate (at least for the short term duration that AoI is in effect for) the 40% chance to pass out from the Create Heat fire warlock spell?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Is it that the AoI takes 1/2 damage (which is subtracted from its SDC/MDC) and the character is protected fully from the remainder?

Armor of Ithan is Resistant to cold and lighting....another way to say it would be that it takes 2 damage points from cold and lighting to do one point of damage to the AoI. This is true in both SDC settings and MDC settings.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ok so with the poll indicating that 100% of the 7 people that voted saying that it takes half damage and the rest is negated that is what I will go with.

Now if it can block out heat based damage from magic fire (one of the most intense heat based attacks) could it also negate (at least for the short term duration that AoI is in effect for) the 40% chance to pass out from the Create Heat fire warlock spell?

Only if the Create Heat/Fire spell strikes under the Armor Rating, hitting the armor.
So.... probably not.

[Riftmaker]

If half the damage went to the player this spell would be next to worthless and we'd need a new generic armor spell.

[Library Ogre]

AoI takes half damage. Really, never even considered it any other way.

[Thinyser]

AoI takes half damage. Really, never even considered it any other way.

Why is the concept not coming across? The question is not whether the armor takes half damage but what happens to the person wearing the armor. Why does it make the wearer immune to fire when fire enters every little chink in armor. AoI is not sealed so if gasses can get in so can fire (which is mostly super heated gasses). The armor takes half damage, but it doesnt say that the wearer is immune or resistant to fire simply because the armor is.

[Glistam]

If the fire, lightning, or cold attack has a secondary effect then that effect would transfer to the person in the armor. The magical armor of the Dwarf-king Ithan only provides a resistance to those elemental damages.

[Thinyser]

If the fire, lightning, or cold attack has a secondary effect then that effect would transfer to the person in the armor. The magical armor of the Dwarf-king Ithan only provides a resistance to those elemental damages.

Is that a quote from somewhere in canon?

The armor is resistant to those elemental damages but it never says it provides the wearer with immunity or even resistance from them. AoI is 100% resistant to toxins and disease but it doesn't confer any resistant to the wearer...

[Library Ogre]

AoI takes half damage. Really, never even considered it any other way.

Why is the concept not coming across? The question is not whether the armor takes half damage but what happens to the person wearing the armor. Why does it make the wearer immune to fire when fire enters every little chink in armor. AoI is not sealed so if gasses can get in so can fire (which is mostly super heated gasses). The armor takes half damage, but it doesnt say that the wearer is immune or resistant to fire simply because the armor is.

Largely because that's how armor, especially MDC armor, tends to work in Palladium... until it's gone, it's complete protection for the person inside. Sure, it makes sense that a person wearing AoI would be vulnerable to fire, but Palladium mechanics are seldom about making sense.

[Glistam]

If the fire, lightning, or cold attack has a secondary effect then that effect would transfer to the person in the armor. The magical armor of the Dwarf-king Ithan only provides a resistance to those elemental damages.

Is that a quote from somewhere in canon?

The armor is resistant to those elemental damages but it never says it provides the wearer with immunity or even resistance from them. AoI is 100% resistant to toxins and disease but it doesn't confer any resistant to the wearer...

I don't think I understand.

Armor of Ithan takes half damage from fire, lightning, or cold attacks. So if an attack that does damage (such as Fire Bolt, or Ball Lightning) does not roll above the A.R. of the spell, then you divide the damage the spell does by two before applying it to the armor. If the attack has another effect (such as Orb of Cold's numbing cold) the armor doesn't protect against that effect in any way.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you bring up toxins and diseases...

[Tor]

Maybe there's a difference regarding a fireball getting past the AR of the armor (in SDC realms) or walking into a flame wall which has no strike roll and presumably hits everything, both you and your armor?

[Thinyser]

If the fire, lightning, or cold attack has a secondary effect then that effect would transfer to the person in the armor. The magical armor of the Dwarf-king Ithan only provides a resistance to those elemental damages.

Is that a quote from somewhere in canon?

The armor is resistant to those elemental damages but it never says it provides the wearer with immunity or even resistance from them. AoI is 100% resistant to toxins and disease but it doesn't confer any resistant to the wearer...

I don't think I understand.

Armor of Ithan takes half damage from fire, lightning, or cold attacks. So if an attack that does damage (such as Fire Bolt, or Ball Lightning) does not roll above the A.R. of the spell, then you divide the damage the spell does by two before applying it to the armor. If the attack has another effect (such as Orb of Cold's numbing cold) the armor doesn't protect against that effect in any way.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you bring up toxins and diseases...

Wall of fire has no roll to strike it damages everything in its area... If you have EBA it would protect from this. AoI is NOT sealed like EBA. Why would it protect you when you are inside a 30 foot tall wall of fire? Yes the armor itself is only taking half damage but the occupant inside the armor should be taking either full damage or the 1/2 that was not absorbed by the armor.

I do not think that AoI would grant the wearer any sort of benefit against fire than regular plate mail would. To that end I don't think that a dude in plate walking into a magic 30' tall wall of flame would be protected from the heat so I don't think that AoI would protect from it either. The difference being that the AoI only takes half the damage that the regular plate would take.

I bring up toxins and disease because the armor takes NO damage from them but it does not make its occupant immune also. If you walk into a room full of toxic gas (chlorine for example) you start taking damage from the caustic and poisonous gas but the mystic armor is unscathed. Its meant to show you that just because the armor is not harmed by exposure to something (or is harmed less than what is normal as AoI is by fire cold and lightning) that the occupant does not necessarily have any special protection from damage from exposure to those same things.

[Glistam]

Based on the rules of your campaign world (where a guy in normal plate mail would be damaged in such a situation regardless) it sounds like you already have your answer. The dude in the Armor of Ithan walks into a 30 foot tall wall of fire and takes full damage to his own S.D.C., just like your person in full plate mail would. The Armor of Ithan itself would only take half-damage from the fire, while the plate mail would take the full damage.

[Ice Dragon]

#1 - nuff said.