Forums of the Megaverse®

As directed, new thread started. Don't have much hope for the longevity of this though.

NMI wrote:Morgan - If a question is not asked, then how can it be ignored? Instead of further derailing this topic, please start a new one. Or if you have questions for Palladium, please use one of the previously mentioned methods of contact.

As Rick mentioned on the previous thread, the previously mentioned methods of contact are either ignored, or take so long to get a response (I'm talking weeks or months here), they might as well be. Again, it's an inefficient process, that a Forum post properly moderated or escalated, can solve before a concern becomes a problem. It'd be different if PB Management had to do it themselves, but you've mentioned several times about escalating it, for the same slow/no response. It usually takes significant effort to get responses.

As for "if a question is not asked?" thing, it's about preempting. Some of the problems raised have been so obvious, it's boggles my mind that they're left for so long. Some issues I can see taking some time, like the original VEF/1D thing that caused me to sign on here in the first place. But even that took forever, going through every online communication source, plus three visits to the PB booth at GenCon2013. And that seems to be the standard procedure. The whole 10 Questions thing was the same. Get the questions asked, say you'll get back on the answers, then ignore it until the answers answered themselves.

NMI wrote:Although the Megaversal Ambassador Program is running a Demo / Launch program of its own, I do recall that Ninja Division was suppose to also be handling some sort of Convention support of some kind. As they are not members here, perhaps you would like to reach out to them and ask.

The folks at Soda Pop/Cipher Studios/Ninja Division will be lending their experience and helping us establish and improve our organized play program. The Megaversal Ambassadors will be the backbone of that program. They are a group of volunteers who run demos and regular games in their local stores, as well as conventions they attend. Most of them, and many new applicants, are eager to start running Robotech® RPG Tactics™ games and demos, and we will do all we can to support them and coordinate their efforts.

Because, as the above response to the 10 Questions question states, that's not what is happening. It's PB running it, with ND providing support/instruction only.

And why would anyone assume Ninja Division are doing anything, when there's zero mention of RRT on their own site? Sure, they mention it occasionally on their FB page. But that seems to be the limit of things. They've otherwise distanced themselves from the game.

But back to the original point, there's been nothing to push this concept, and given the game is out this month, having a robust, advertised, informed protocol in place just seems like an obvious solution to a pending problem. But again, that seems to be standard procedure.

RRT had to be listed as a RPG when we Coordinators submitted the games / events to Gen Con. that was Gen Con's rules to us. The thing being that even though it was a miniature based game, it was a non-released one out something along that lines.

Rick S. wrote:Morgan I've been saying all along how PB keeps saying selling the game at GenCon seems to be their only thought to promote the game, they have no advertised it elsewhere, so far the only word out there about the game is negative buzz on vlogs and blogs but nothing really positive (other then it will come out eventually), the game has not been featured on any of the top 10 lists of most anticipated games to appear at GenCon, PB is only running one game a day for 3-6 people at GenCon which will not spark interest especially since they listed it as an RPG game.

sales will not help the game, only PB's pocket book, as of now this game needs a miracle to help it.

that same comment could apply to rifts.

palladium pretty much has no advertisement at all for any of its lines right now.

Rick S. wrote:

NMI wrote:RRT had to be listed as a RPG when we Coordinators submerged the games / events to Gen Con. that was Gen Con's rules to us. The train being that even though it was a miniature based game, it was a non-released one out something along that lines.

really so the other new unreleased miniature games being showcased by other companies and on the game floor should have been listed as RPG's instead of the miniature games they are under?

also is that submitted, or submerged? not sure if you had to sink the game or not to register it ?

Think what you want to think, assume what you want to assume. Unless you were part of the communications between myself, ingexthefuryhunter1 and the GenCon event organizer team, YOU were not part of the process. Unfortunately, this also means that you are left with only your imagination to assume whatever fact-less, opinions about the situation that YOU want to make up.

and that was meant to say *submitted - I was typing from my phone.

They haven't had advertising for anything in years outside their own publications.

And as I now recall, we also had to submit the Tactic events as an RPG as we were wanting to get all of the MA sponsored games in the same area/room. With the exception of the 2 Wed games, we succeeded.

Ok, just do we are all clear and do not have assumptions made, you guys had list the RRT mini game as an RPG so that you could hold the RRT mini events in the same area as the MA run RPG events?

Agsin just got the sake of clarity and understanding.

Ingex will be providing further responses to the same questions from this point. I've given my answers.

Hello all let me explain this so it is fully out there.

The MA program is a volunteer force of the most dedicated palladium game masters I Have Had The Pleasure To know. Now this also means we get support from Palladium in the form of swag and it ends there.

We originally set out to have RRT demoed in the minature gaming area. For a bigger impact, the problem is that game demo's are only allowed at the company booths, or at paid for space. Which the MA ' S would have to pay for. This was not a thing I was going to ask our MA ' S do, so a compromise was made with the GenCon organizers.

The RRT game could be ran in the MA gaming area, if it had a story line to it, then it was a Role playing game with minature still the same game, same rules we just don't have to raise money.

This is not including the demo games at the booth which are not on the schedule.

As for promotion for the RRT game, everyone needs to remember palladium is not fully under control of the RRT or shadow cronicles but have to cooperate with harmony gold.

We have had issues with getting information for the demo's because we need permissions that palladium can not give us.

Now if any one wants to call some one on this my number is 209-678-8515

I have been involved in group arrangements with GenCon in the past and I can confirm that we had similar issues as NMI and Ingex described. I am also a Chaosium Missionary and Chaosium demos of the RPG, LARP and even CCG were all put in one demo area and listed together under RPGs several years ago.

Also, since it's Robotech RPG Tactics, its not surprising GenCon would put it in the RPG section.

As for contacting Palladium, I have NEVER had a problem. Zero. Nada. None. I am in LA so calling them isn't an issue, but I mostly email or PM and after a couple days to at most a week, I get my answers. Once I had to wait two weeks for a response from Kevin, but he was in the middle of a writing crunch so that's expected. AlexM is my go-to if I need a quick response.

PB is a responsive company, at least for me.

ingexthefuryhunter1 wrote:Hello all let me explain this so it is fully out there.

The MA program is a volunteer force of the most dedicated palladium game masters I Have Had The Pleasure To know. Now this also means we get support from Palladium in the form of swag and it ends there.

We originally set out to have RRT demoed in the minature gaming area. For a bigger impact, the problem is that game demo's are only allowed at the company booths, or at paid for space. Which the MA ' S would have to pay for. This was not a thing I was going to ask our MA ' S do, so a compromise was made with the GenCon organizers.

The RRT game could be ran in the MA gaming area, if it had a story line to it, then it was a Role playing game with minature still the same game, same rules we just don't have to raise money.

This is not including the demo games at the booth which are not on the schedule.

As for promotion for the RRT game, everyone needs to remember palladium is not fully under control of the RRT or shadow cronicles but have to cooperate with harmony gold.

We have had issues with getting information for the demo's because we need permissions that palladium can not give us.

Now if any one wants to call some one on this my number is 209-678-8515

So the answer to my above question for clarity's sake was yes. Ok thanks.

I know you bust your butt ingex. I have no doubt you did the same this time. Whatever success is had, I know it will have been in large part to your efforts. You were the one to support me in my previous endeavors as a MA. You also know my issues with how the MA program is set up. Those are my issues I know but they are shared by a number of others who would like to be a MA but don't feel so much work should be put on their shoulders to promote Palladium's products. It's an old discussion though so I'll leave it that.

The only well oiled-machine for demos that I have seen is Steve Jackson's team. I have been part of WotC's RPGA DM team, Chaosium's Missionaries, Warhammer's Outriders, Manticore's Wastelanders, AEG's whatever dudes for L5R and PB's MA program plus a few others over the years (and couple stillborn RPGs and CCGs).

There are LOTS of problems with a loose confederation with little support and little oversight by the company. This is true. However, on the flip side, there are LOTS of problems with a tight organization with heavy oversight (old RPGA, current Pathfinder and GW forever) where the rules, regulations and politics can play havoc even though you are getting A+ swag.

I got great swag from Games Workshop...but the BS level killed the fun. As a MA, I know we're pretty much ronin in the wilderness, but I've never felt any pressure from PB which keeps it stress free. Yes, I would like more organization and more support, and maybe that will be happening in the future. Or maybe not. Who knows Mechanoid Space might happen too.

LOL @ MS reference.....

Jay I totally understand the issues, and worry. But even having those people in the MA's running there own games and demo's would be a great thing as it shows we are a united front, of players. Has Palladium always hit its dead line, hell no I will the first to state this, has Palladium dropped the ball on a lot of products hell yes.

But I will also say, the products that come out, are more than not on the mark with what we as fans want, have they recovered the ball more than not, yes, but like every thing in life we only remember the fouls and the issues that hurt us as people. I understand this, and I as a fan accept this, hell I am still waiting on the Rifts movie, do I figure I will be alive when it comes out, I hope so but if I am not I hope my nieces and nephews enjoy it.

What I am trying to say is many things get screwed in the wash, but behind them is not some great evil it is just life and life can be a cruel mother behind the door with a ball bat, and at times you just got to take the beating to get the job done.

OH yeah i know there is no conspiracy behind all this trust me

A few observations first, Gen Con is not the only one that has strict rules on how you post things. I do a local con here every year and this years theme was Old School. They wanted as many games from the '70s & '80s as we could so in addition to 3 PB games I ran the old TSR Nighthawks / Star Frontiers game. Now I was running it as an RPG with just the big battle sequence on a hex map, but in order for me to have it in the main hall and not off in my own little room I had to list it as a board game not an RPG.

Second, I know some people say if the MA program was more organized we would have more MAs. We might have different MAs but I don't know about more. Turn this into Pathfinder Society and I, and several other MAs are gone. This is a hobby for me, not the near devotion that PS seems to require from its people. I also like how simple the requirements are and that I can run my own games, not some canned module from the mother ship. I saw a near fist fight at con when a PS guy was trying to use some house rules, no thanks. I have heard comments like Spinachat way too often from people in other programs.

Finally, I have never had a problem getting through to PB with a problems, and I have had few over the years especially damage books. They have always come through quickly for me. The difference here is I did not contact them until I had a problem, no company PBs size can respond to every "what if" that comes along. Some people seem to be assuming problems from the outset. I know some people around here want an official response to every single question they have from KS personally, but I and most of the fans I know would much rather they spent their very limited time writing and releasing product and simply deal with problems when they happen.

Rick S. wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:A few observations first, Gen Con is not the only one that has strict rules on how you post things. I do a local con here every year and this years theme was Old School. They wanted as many games from the '70s & '80s as we could so in addition to 3 PB games I ran the old TSR Nighthawks / Star Frontiers game. Now I was running it as an RPG with just the big battle sequence on a hex map, but in order for me to have it in the main hall and not off in my own little room I had to list it as a board game not an RPG.

Second, I know some people say if the MA program was more organized we would have more MAs. We might have different MAs but I don't know about more. Turn this into Pathfinder Society and I, and several other MAs are gone. This is a hobby for me, not the near devotion that PS seems to require from its people. I also like how simple the requirements are and that I can run my own games, not some canned module from the mother ship. I saw a near fist fight at con when a PS guy was trying to use some house rules, no thanks. I have heard comments like Spinachat way too often from people in other programs.

Finally, I have never had a problem getting through to PB with a problems, and I have had few over the years especially damage books. They have always come through quickly for me. The difference here is I did not contact them until I had a problem, no company PBs size can respond to every "what if" that comes along. Some people seem to be assuming problems from the outset. I know some people around here want an official response to every single question they have from KS personally, but I and most of the fans I know would much rather they spent their very limited time writing and releasing product and simply deal with problems when they happen.

Obviously you have never played with Miniature gamers, they are a whole different breed, and nothing like RPGers, there are rules lawyers and the accepted miniatures guidelines rules lawyers, then you have the freelancers who will put down a quarter and says its a veritech, then you have the WYSIWYG crowd and so on., also MA's a lot of the places you used to play your RPG's, you won't be able to play miniature games at , and the places you can play miniature games at you might not be able to play yours at, I remember watching a guy come into a GW specific store and wanted to run a demo for another company, he was lucky to get out alive.

Miniature gamers are territorial, and if you don't know the lay out of the land you will have a hard time, also I was talking to one of the MA's here, and it seems he was not quite up to date on where game stores are or not, so if you haven't been to a store in the past week or month, do not assume it is still there.

Also this goes to MA's and PB Miniature games are not RPG's they are 2 different beasts and if you keep thinking a miniature game is an RPG you might as well quit now.

Or, I can ignore this and play with those people who want to play the game and have fun doing it. Just because I plan to do things in a fashion that some don't like doesn't mean I should give up or that I'm stupid. I know minis gamers are not like RPGs, that is one of the reasons I have never liked them, but this one is supposed to have rules to add it to the RPG which is where I will be using it most.

As for the stores, that is a problem with everything in this economy, but since both stores I have contacted have been in place for over 5 years I am going to take a chance that they will still be there when I finish my minis. If by some chance they are not I can easily find others through the internets.

Rick S. wrote:so your going to play the game like a RPG with miniatures, not as a miniature game, make sure you make that clear, also when it comes to miniature gamers i'm about as laid back as it gets. but some of them mini gamers scares me even, but nice to know you will be contributing this game to the clearance section, miniature gamers want miniature games, not RPG's with miniatures.

Rick, I am really not looking to get into yet another pointless conversation with you. I know you are unhappy with everything and that every one of us from PB to the MAs is screwing this up and that none of us no what we are doing. I accept that as a given so no need for you to keep telling us.

I said "using this most" not exclusively. I will be doing regular tactics games as well. Second, since when I run the games they will be as RPGs and minis will just be an extra, people will be able to figure it out. Third, when I encounter crazy people in my demos for RPGs I warn them and ask them to leave, I plan to do the same here and every place I have ever done a demo supports that. Last year I saw a Games Workshop throw 3 people out for heckling a demo just once, so I know it happens.

Finally, I, and many other people, look to play a game where you are NOT the most laid back person at the table. Most of the KS backers are not minis gamers, this will be there first and for some of us only minis game. The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts. Just because I want to do things different from you does not mean I will not be helping the game.

Warshield73 wrote:The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts.

If you are interested Warshield, once I get my copy of the game I will be kitbashing it for Rifts. I'll gladly share what I come up with and the cardstock minis I plan to make for it as well.

jaymz wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts.

If you are interested Warshield, once I get my copy of the game I will be kitbashing it for Rifts. I'll gladly share what I come up with and the cardstock minis I plan to make for it as well.

Thanks Jaymz but I will probably wait. The problem with Rifts will be the same as the problem for new Generation. How do you have a cyclone and a Beta on the same scale? How do you have a Titan PA, a Splugorth Slave Barge and a Triax Black Knight (or God help you a Devastator) all on the same scale. What about dragons, and neuron beasts, and fury beetles and any decent Rifts minis game would need a Xiticix horde. Where do you start.

Truthfully, I would much rather that Rifts came as more of a Heroscape style game with pre-painted, pre-assembled figures so that scale would be less of an issue. But, I know that would make lots of minis gamers furious.

Rick S. wrote:but when you demo the game as something other then what it is, it creates confusion, also you won't be able to Demo this game in a GW store. and I repeat you do not know miniature gamers, wish you luck, you will need it.

I will not demo this game as "other then what it is". It is supposed to have rules to use it with the RPG, if for some reason it does not I probably won't use it that way. I know I can't demo in a GW, that was an example of how others dealt with the crazies, I was pretty clear about that.

Warshield73 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts.

If you are interested Warshield, once I get my copy of the game I will be kitbashing it for Rifts. I'll gladly share what I come up with and the cardstock minis I plan to make for it as well.

Thanks Jaymz but I will probably wait. The problem with Rifts will be the same as the problem for new Generation. How do you have a cyclone and a Beta on the same scale? How do you have a Titan PA, a Splugorth Slave Barge and a Triax Black Knight (or God help you a Devastator) all on the same scale. What about dragons, and neuron beasts, and fury beetles and any decent Rifts minis game would need a Xiticix horde. Where do you start.

Truthfully, I would much rather that Rifts came as more of a Heroscape style game with pre-painted, pre-assembled figures so that scale would be less of an issue. But, I know that would make lots of minis gamers furious.

I actually forgot one thing here. The new Palladium Fantasy paper minis are really pretty nice. Not perfect but I like them. A rifts version of those would fill the hole nicely.

Warshield73 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts.

If you are interested Warshield, once I get my copy of the game I will be kitbashing it for Rifts. I'll gladly share what I come up with and the cardstock minis I plan to make for it as well.

Thanks Jaymz but I will probably wait. The problem with Rifts will be the same as the problem for new Generation. How do you have a cyclone and a Beta on the same scale? How do you have a Titan PA, a Splugorth Slave Barge and a Triax Black Knight (or God help you a Devastator) all on the same scale. What about dragons, and neuron beasts, and fury beetles and any decent Rifts minis game would need a Xiticix horde. Where do you start.

Truthfully, I would much rather that Rifts came as more of a Heroscape style game with pre-painted, pre-assembled figures so that scale would be less of an issue. But, I know that would make lots of minis gamers furious.

Actually, you'd be surprised I did a cardstock cyclone. At 7mm tall it really wasnt that bad at all.....but no worries.

Warshield73 wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:The only way I would buy another is if it is Rifts.

If you are interested Warshield, once I get my copy of the game I will be kitbashing it for Rifts. I'll gladly share what I come up with and the cardstock minis I plan to make for it as well.

Thanks Jaymz but I will probably wait. The problem with Rifts will be the same as the problem for new Generation. How do you have a cyclone and a Beta on the same scale? How do you have a Titan PA, a Splugorth Slave Barge and a Triax Black Knight (or God help you a Devastator) all on the same scale. What about dragons, and neuron beasts, and fury beetles and any decent Rifts minis game would need a Xiticix horde. Where do you start.

Truthfully, I would much rather that Rifts came as more of a Heroscape style game with pre-painted, pre-assembled figures so that scale would be less of an issue. But, I know that would make lots of minis gamers furious.

I actually forgot one thing here. The new Palladium Fantasy paper minis are really pretty nice. Not perfect but I like them. A rifts version of those would fill the hole nicely.

IIRC those are at about 25mm scale. I have done a bunch of Rifts ones at that scale. Covered almost all of the RUE/RMB and SB1/SB1R items including the deaths head....man that was HUGE at about 18" x 18" x 36" oye.

Rick S. wrote:yeah well in a GW store GW demos have precedence in other game stores it is not necessarily so , you might have people who are close to the store owner or a considerable customer there

This would be a problem with any demo (RPG, minis, Yahtzee even) and in those cases you deal or you move on. If it is so hostile that it is an issue, your probably not going to have much luck selling the game to them anyway.

Rick S. wrote:but it sounds like you are going to be playing with a few friends of yours, which goes against my conceptions of Demos and such, well have fun, guess things have changed in the game demoing world.

Once again, we see you just making stuff up. I have already said I will demoing in stores and at cons. If you want to disagree with how I am doing it that is fine, but quit making stuff up and actually just disagree.

Rick S. wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:

Rick S. wrote:Once again, we see you just making stuff up. I have already said I will demoing in stores and at cons. If you want to disagree with how I am doing it that is fine, but quit making stuff up and actually just disagree.

yes but when you demo a minis game as an RPG kind of defeats the purpose of it being a minis game now doesn't it ?

Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll.
I'm done - I already corrected you several times and once again I hitting the definition of insanity.

He did, but Rick he also said he would be running as it is as well and he corrected you as such too.

Rick S. wrote:

jaymz wrote:He did, but Rick he also said he would be running as it is as well and he corrected you as such too.

you mean this part?

I will not demo this game as "other then what it is". It is supposed to have rules to use it with the RPG, if for some reason it does not I probably won't use it that way. I know I can't demo in a GW, that was an example of how others dealt with the crazies, I was pretty clear about that.

sounds like if no RPG rules exist then he will play it as a mini wargame not an RPG, but considering that the RPG rules will allow you to use miniatures kind of makes it a safe bet he will be playing it as an RPG, but hey hes one of PB's MA's, this the kind of MA's they have makes sense why Palladium is pretty much unknown in gaming circles, but not blaming the MA's alone, just PB's lack of oversight and support of the MA's.

It is possible I misunderstood or it was a lost in translation type post *shrugs* I don't disagree about the MA program at all. I use to be one....used to.

Okay, so we're "Preempting problems" in here, could I ask: What's going on with container 1, container 2 and container 3?

Sure, maybe I'm not normal to want to know these things. But I am not alone. I will even accept an answer that amounts to: "We had a company do it, so until it rolls up to the PB office on a truck, we have no idea". Which, I think would be stupid as heck, but what do I know?

Are you folks getting along or because of your antics do we need to have this thread locked too?

Please don't lock it... I find it Hilarious!

It's like a car accident on the freeway...You can't help yourself, you slow down to gawk at the scene.

I _will_ be demoing the game as a miniatures game at Guild of Blades retail in Clawson Michigan (recently expanded to a 7900 sq ft facility with an impressive game room.) To that end I will also be leading painting workshops and a few 'terrain days' where we get some pink foam, paint, flock and we teach people how to make easy and decent looking terrain. One piece to keep, one piece to go into the store's terrain bins for use for games. Also, next year at Gen Con, once the game is out in the eco system, I have a little something cooking up with Phaze and a few other select individuals. But don't worry, I'll invite a bunch of other people too. I've been monitoring your conversation, and let me assure you. I _do_ have minis wargaming and demo team experience. 15+ years working with mecha and grognards and all the usual trappings there of. I've dealt with Outriders, Pressgangers, Commandos, Marauders, and Agents. I will say that the expressed laissez faire nature of the MA approach to a miniatures game is not what I was expecting, but I am here to have fun with the game, and indulge my inner geek. Ultimately, I've offered my experience and insights to anyone who may ask. I have not been taken up on my offer, but ultimately for me personally it doesn't matter. I will be able to game out the animated series and that is all I really ever wanted anyway. Others will be welcome to come along for the ride. It will be great.

Warshield73 wrote:Or, I can ignore this and play with those people who want to play the game and have fun doing it. Just because I plan to do things in a fashion that some don't like doesn't mean I should give up or that I'm stupid. I know minis gamers are not like RPGs, that is one of the reasons I have never liked them, but this one is supposed to have rules to add it to the RPG which is where I will be using it most.

As much as I might not be a fan of Rick's... enthusiasm, he does present some points (obnoxiously) that are worth looking at.

Hurdles such as finding shops that will allow demos. This can be a non-issue in shops that are already selling the product, but shops that sell both RPGs and Mini's aren't always a given, so the crowds and stores you're familiar with may not be where you can easily demo. Perhaps further complicated by there reportedly not being a ton of shops where PB material is sold these days. Oh, no need to correct me, I'm sure you live in a utopia of forbidden Palladium delights, but living in the third largest metropolitan area on the continent, I only know of a handful of games shops that carry even a portion of the book line, and at least half of those have minimal or no wargaming areas set aside.

Also, people need to be on the same page, especially for demos. If the game being demo'd is RRT, and you're heavily into the RPG elements, that's great for those games, but the objective should be to get people into the game itself (as in, one on one or multiplayer without need for an adjudicator/GM). It is entirely possible to play as such 'for fun', and while your personal lack of interest in miniatures games or in playing it as a wargame (if I'm reading you correctly) could prove highly problematic for demonstrating a miniatures wargame.

Like, if I wanted to learn to play X-Wing, it doesn't matter (to me) if an official side set of rules exists in conjunction with the d20 or d6 Star Wars RPGs, I want to build an X point list and blow ships out of the sky. If one intends to demo a game such that a player might join the game and even begin to play casually with others, join leagues or even tournaments, they need to learn to play the game as it is written in the rules book.

Playing it as the RPG with streamlined combat seems like it'd risk muddying the waters.

I'll put this as nicely as I can, if I'm signing on to try miniature games at a con I'm not looking in the rpg section for miniature games. In trying to keep everything in the same area might not have been the best idea. Time will tell.

rosco60559 wrote:I'll put this as nicely as I can, if I'm signing on to try miniature games at a con I'm not looking in the rpg section for miniature games. In trying to keep everything in the same area might not have been the best idea. Time will tell.

Yeah, I don't play mini's at all so (if I wasn't in the know) I might be a bit confused about RRT, expecting it to be an actual roleplaying game.

I hope there's going to be a lot of advertisement and information to clear up any confusion. Like a full page ad in the Gen Con booklet, a droog handing out flyers or something.

The fact that it has RPG in the game's title itself would be kind of confusing to an outsider. I think it would have made more sense to have just called it Robotech Tactics, since from what I see there isn't much roleplay in it. It can't be both.

Things that try to do two different things in one usually don't work that well. Like those tools that somehow try to combine multiple things...like flashlight/hammers or TV remote/vegetable peelers etc.

MurderCityDisciple wrote:

rosco60559 wrote:I'll put this as nicely as I can, if I'm signing on to try miniature games at a con I'm not looking in the rpg section for miniature games. In trying to keep everything in the same area might not have been the best idea. Time will tell.

Yeah, I don't play mini's at all so (if I wasn't in the know) I might be a bit confused about RRT, expecting it to be an actual roleplaying game.

I hope there's going to be a lot of advertisement and information to clear up any confusion. Like a full page ad in the Gen Con booklet, a droog handing out flyers or something.

The fact that it has RPG in the game's title itself would be kind of confusing to an outsider. I think it would have made more sense to have just called it Robotech Tactics, since from what I see there isn't much role play in it. It can't be both.

Things that try to do two different things in one usually don't work that well. Like those tools that somehow try to combine multiple things...like flashlight/hammers or TV remote/vegetable peelers etc.

Ok to address this, again, Gen Con has a very strict rules set for submissions and where games are played, A table in the mini's room cost money as it is a space issue, As MA's we are not monetarily supported by Palladium this means the money for this table would come from the MA's and while it would be great to have it in that area, I as the Gen Con MA organizer did not feel it was correct to solicit money from the MA's to put it there, when we could do it for free and have a united front in the RPG section with demo's run near the companies booth, Now I know many RRT people like many Mini's players find it beneath them to come near RPG players, but as it all comes under the umbrella of Palladium and Robotech I did what I could.

Now as to why I couldn't just call the games Robotech Tactics, it is because that is the product line name, and is not allowed as a proper title for the game it self, hell we could not even have Rifts in the beginning of any of the Rifts games, I spent a little over 74 hours reediting the games to fit Gen Con specific issues. this included description length, title, and so forth.

Now as for Rick stating that the Mini crowd is a different animal, they are, but so are the PFS and D&D groups different animals, we as gamers know this, and as MA Coordinators we are taking this into consideration, as we are setting up some thing for the Demo side of the Tactics game. But that is for another MA Coordinator to fill you all in on. But yes many stores close it is the reality of the Google and internet age. just like TV killed the radio star, Internet is killing the corner book store.

As for demoing the tactics game as both a role playing with miniatures game and as a standard Mini's game, this is what is called cross selling, and in business is called an increased dividend because in increases the usefulness of the Product, just like the old Battle tech game was in the 80's. you could play a story behind the battle, then the battle so your role playing had some out come on the game, or you could build a squad of mechs and go at it. this also extrapolated over to the Saturday night game, as such, you could play the six hour role playing game and then four hour battle or you could watch the base ball game and still get in your battle play.

At Conventions I will put this simple, many board and mini rooms are starting to look like child care centers for the RPG players to drop there kids, so they can bounce from demo to demo and be occupied, while mommy and daddy go play RPG's this is a boon and a curse. as many of the more hardcore mini players are actually registering and getting there own rooms leaving demo games like Cat and many other MA's and Ronin demo teams to be open to success.

And before any one calls into question my logic or knowledge of the lines or Convention. I will put this out there, I have been playing mini's since the early 80's when D&D pewter mini's came out with the supplement for the non pc dungeon crawl, I also hold 2 fantasy armies worth 45 to 50K in points each and one necron army with two monoliths. As for my Convention knowledge I have been running at cons for the past 14 years and many of those also organizing the GM's who where running at that convention together to set an organized front.

So as you can see there is a reason and rhyme on why Gen con gaming is set the way it is. As for the Demoing of Robotech tactics I feel it is the same as with the book line. As long as the word is getting out that we have not gone to that dark compost heap in the sky, that the light of palladium books shines on that gamers can flock to it and enjoy its bounty all is good with this world.

But I am not that poetic, so lets just all try and get along and make this the best launch and demoing experience we can.

one necron army with two monoliths

Wanna see my Monolith... <now I'm just showing off>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaeZYaLFmZ8

Ardino processor with LED and Light Wire. I should make a better video though.

Mini gamer since... dirt. Space Marine army, Necron Army, Ork army, 1000+ Silent Death ships, 10 Injurious Games Squads, and more D&D and Star Wars minis that I can count. I think I still have my Star Frontiers ship fleet.

Too that collection will be added 500+ Robotech RPG Tactics minis. <<giggling with anticipation>>

Also curious what becomes of the money players are paying to play the game at GenCon ?

Those are fees that are directed straight to GENCON LLC. The GMs and Palladium get none of that unless it is specifically tacted on for a purpose (supplies, paint, etc.).

I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm paying to play any game at a con I'm expecting the full normal rules not the quick start/demo version. I understand fees go the con and it's free to demo rrt at the shop's booth but you might have several complaints from people expecting to play the actual game after paying to walk in the door and pay to reserve spots at which ever events they wanted to jump into. I know I'd fill out the complaint form for that happening.

rosco60559 wrote:I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm paying to play any game at a con I'm expecting the full normal rules not the quick start/demo version. I understand fees go the con and it's free to demo rrt at the shop's booth but you might have several complaints from people expecting to play the actual game after paying to walk in the door and pay to reserve spots at which ever events they wanted to jump into. I know I'd fill out the complaint form for that happening.

I will have no complaints...there is no demo rules vs. regular. Just the regular rules that I need to study to make sure I am up to speed to run the game and or tweek my line up to make it more balanced. Yes the demos are free and run by Palladium and staff at the booth. I am running three games that are 'events' and tickets sold.

Am I cutting it close?... oh yea. Am I nervious? ... Not in the least. I am a good GM with a long history of running games at cons. It will be a good time.

No whining from me about just geting the rules last night...
No yawning from an all night studing session...
Nothing but a good time amonst friends.

Rick S. wrote:

Phaze wrote:

Also curious what becomes of the money players are paying to play the game at GenCon ?

Those are fees that are directed straight to GENCON LLC. The GMs and Palladium get none of that unless it is specifically tacted on for a purpose (supplies, paint, etc.).

Wow so GenCon charges players to play games and then charges others to run games (miniatures?) seems better to be running a convention it seems, do nothing and money rolls in

Let's not overlook the cost of renting the space, organizing hundreds (thousands?) of booths, booking celebrities, arranging security, obtaining and training volunteers, setting up the load in/load out, troubleshooting the thousands of niggling little issues that will arise across that week, and untold other clerical/administrative work.

Note that I'm NOT saying it isn't lucrative, but "do nothing and watch the money roll in" is a highly simplistic and uncharitable take on the raw amount of time, thought, effort and manpower these conventions take to run. I see it every time my booth loads in; the people directing traffic, providing info, doing everything they can to wrangle raw chaos into something reasonably controlled (or at least directed).

Rick S. wrote:Actually Forar I was being facetious since Conventions are usually ran as non-profits with proceeds going to a charity they represent, but still you would think PB would loosen the purse strings a bit so as to run a miniatures game with other miniatures games to attract, well miniature game players, but that's just my convoluted way of thinking.

That's actually the part I found strange. Don't want to pay out for 'volunteers', that's fine. But making sure those volunteers have basic resources, including appropriately tagged and marked space for the game, or, as happened last year, knowledge of where these games were being run. Several people reported not being told of the larger scale demo game being run, even after expressing interest in seeing more.

And those issues are being handled, Also Rick the areas you where asking about are not where I live. It would be like asking you to recommend a fine restaurant in Inglewood and you live Sacramento I may be with in driving distance but it doesnt mean I have an encyclopedic knowledge of every role playing and Mini's store in the thri county area.

As to my gaming circle we mainly play at home as we play battle of the five armies style, and on any given weekend it can be from 10 to 35K points, which takes the better part of two days to resolve as we play till the army is ran from the field or dead.

The cost of getting the space is a bit high and the Gen Con folks were hesitant as it were to grant us as much dedicated space as they did. The hesitation was due to the fact that they thought we could not fill the number of tables and seats we were asking for. Uhm... yeah sold out!

This is also the largest event that the M.A.'s have made such sizable presence. Depending on how things turn out, feedback, etc... Then it is feasible that next year Palladium will pop for a truly dedicated room to just us. It is highly possible that there may be other games from other systems in the room that we are in.

NO Ram, Gen con had no issue with us being in the minis room, if we paid the table fee, Which was exorbitant and out of the question. Given we had enough RPG support they allowed us five tables in a section to our selves in the RPG section, and given we had demo's being run at the Palladium booth, the one game of RRT did not make financial sense to put it in the mini's room. When we could place it in the palladium section of the RPG area we where given for free, We also as a MA and long time Palladium freind and fan, didnt want to wake the dreaded something is going to go wrong curse, raise the money and spend it on a table, in which we could put nothing because of a delay of product or other unforseen issue. Plus placing it in the Palladium area will allow people to see what the company has to offer as a package.

Now would I have liked to put it in the minis room, hell if I had the people and the materials, yes I would have liked to have three or four tables of RRT in the minis room and a couple tables in the card room playing palladium card game, make the entire con about Palladium.

This is also as NMI said the first year the MA's have really made our selves known, like many we are coming out of the shadows and standing forth to declare Palladium is strong and we will game on.

Now if you are coming to Gen Con see you in a few days

ingexthefuryhunter1 wrote:Gen con had no issue with us being in the minis room, if we paid the table fee, Which was exorbitant and out of the question.

How much was this?

None of the MA's had any problem at Gen Con so not sure why we would need the blessing at any other time. Also, I spent the entire four days in the PB gaming room or at the PB booth in the main hall. All the people that I saw and talked to looking at the sprues had nothing negative to say.

As for who the backers were, I strongly disagree with both camps. Most of the backers are not RPG or table top...they are collectors. One of the backers actually said in a very early comment that he was buying in so he could have a large Zent army on the shelves over the desk. The main reason I think the largest group is just collectors is how many backers have only backed this project (with no other projects in the history) and how many backers have never once posted to the page. Meaning they are pretty uninterested in the drama.

For me, this does not portent well for the success of the game as collectors don't generate much buzz.

Warshield73 wrote:None of the MA's had any problem at Gen Con so not sure why we would need the blessing at any other time.

I think the point he is making is that a local shop is a lot harder to generate the right buzz as local shops, typically, already have certain games that are generally played by the patrons of that shop. Breaking into that takes a lot of work and effort.

GenCon is NOT the bar to which you can measure if there will or will not be a problem supporting a game of any kind, let alone a Palladium game.

As for who bought in...

I bought in for multiple reasons.

1 - It is Robotech

2 - It is Macross

3 - I can use it for both tabletop wargaming and RPGing.

4 - I can use some of the pieces for Battletech.

5 - I can use them to run non-Robotech Macross games using MZ or SilCore

6 - It'll be nice to have minis that are done up nice (by my standards as I suck at painting) to put on the shelf.

I agree that Collectors are probably the major group of backers. Not surprising for a KS.

As a 40k fan, I know lots of people who are into 40k don't play the game. They may be into the video games, books or just like the minis for modeling and painting. I find it a bit odd, but hey, if they have fun and support the IP, so what?

I bought RTT because I want a cool mecha wargame and I prefer the Robotech flavor to the Battletech flavor. I like the ground + air combo for combat in RTT as that enables more interesting tactics than just having all units just trudging around a board.

I think the majority of backers are going to be made up of a lot of folks. Roughly 60% of the backers went in at the 'sweet spot' of a Battle Cry box, which gave the most 'bang for ones buck', however the average backer contributed $270, significantly more than a BC. Now, a chunk of that is going to be found in international shipping, and the number of Showdowns and Recklesses would drag the average north a little, but not necessarily dramatically so.

Some will be RPG players looking to have models for their table, some wargamers, some collectors, some Battletech players, some people who were just nostalgic for the series and were willing to take a somewhat pricey chance on a product.

Where that balance actually lies remains to be seen, imo.