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According to Palladium, they had hoped for the second container to arrive at their warehouse 'the week they returned from Gencon'.

From looking at a couple of large cargo ships that made the trek, it does appear to be possible to make the trip from Shanghai to L.A. in two weeks. However, that doesn't account for time in customs, and further transit from the port to PB's warehouse.

The time frame PB is anticipating ends in a little over 2 weeks. Meaning that if their schedule is holding, the second container needs to be on the water already, if not arriving in port very soon, but we haven't even heard about it being loaded.

THIS is a direct example of what I and some other backers have complained about; what we are told is not lining up with reality. We've been told to be patient, that they'll be getting a container every week or so to continue with shipping out backer boxes, and yet the first full Backer container is apparently MIA.

I will freely concede that it might have already gone out and they just haven't mentioned it in an update, but it seems like a rather big deal, and something worth noting to both backers and non-backers alike (the sooner Backer boxes go out, the sooner a container can arrive and be dedicated strictly to retail).

Hell, at this point Container #3 should be getting ready to go if it wants to arrive by late August/early September on a similar time frame.

Will PB respond to or even read this? Unlikely. Even if a moderator says they'll "pass on the information", I'm not optimistic, but I thought it was worth laying out as clearly as I could one of the ongoing issues this campaign struggles with, as I see it.

And before anyone decides to take a stab at the poor straw man that gets so much attention, no, we don't need the exact ship name, captain's name, years of service or his favourite brandy, but simply noting 'hey guys, container 2 should arrive in port in X days, and container 3 is getting ready to make its journey' should either be something they can state, or we could use some information as to why the delivery schedule is already sliding backwards. Again.

Been asking for a week.

Good luck, bro.

Yeah, I'm not expecting a response (though it'd be nice). At best probably a "I'll fire this up the chain", but it's a perfect example of how 'what they say' and 'reality' aren't meshing up yet.

But hey, maybe the update/newsletter this week will talk about how #2 is on the water and #3 should be there in a week and we can all breathe a big sigh of relief.

... lol

you're worrying about container 2 when we haven't heard anymore about #1? well I'm looking forward to see what the update has this week, it'll either sound like the end of the world cause the container got held up in customs or it's late getting to pb due to traffic.

rosco60559 wrote:you're worrying about container 2 when we haven't heard anymore about #1? well I'm looking forward to see what the update has this week, it'll either sound like the end of the world cause the container got held up in customs or it's late getting to pb due to traffic.

Container 1 has no bearing on 2.

Hell, with the right timing, 2 could arrive while 1 is in customs, and they could arrive at PB's warehouse at roughly the same time, which in and of itself could be a problem/headache to deal with.

The newsletter itself notes that #1 could arrive between the 20th and the 29th.

Which, I'd like to note, is after container #2 was projected to arrive.

OMG #2 could be the new #1!

Containerception!

Forar wrote:Containerception!

Believe it or not... no. Not really.

The only silver lining here will be if they finally, 99% FINALLY (I know, I just broke the system) embrace reality rather than cheerful optimism.

Just because Gencon is no longer an issue doesn't mean that the timing of container 1, 2 and beyond isn't still important. I can already see it being an issue where they have space for, say, 10 pallets... and have 20 (numbers made up purely to make the example).

Forar wrote:Container 1 has no bearing on 2.

Hell, with the right timing, 2 could arrive while 1 is in customs, and they could arrive at PB's warehouse at roughly the same time, which in and of itself could be a problem/headache to deal with.

With the wrong timing, and the perversity of the universe increasing towards an unspecified maximum, the same could easily happen to the second container... which would be a hell of a thing.

And if the containers were indeed shipping out every 7-10 days, Container THREE could become Container One!

Oh.

Em.

Gee.

They went through all that trouble of asking backers if they could sell it at Gen Con and it may not even be there. Oh; brother.

The roughly 200 people just getting a core box (assuming they all paid up and none of them upgraded) are just the tip of the iceberg.

They may well be somewhere north of 6,300 Battle Cry tier equivalents being shipped out around the world (including Showdowns and Recklesses accordingly). This misses the people who failed to pay up (1-2% I believe?), but also doesn't account for people who added extra boxes with the pledge manager, so it might be 6k, it might be 7k.

The first contacts might take a day or a couple of days.

The Battle Cry boxes are where the weeks will disappear.

Moreso if they wrap up Container X and Container Y is still in customs or at sea (or hasn't even gotten on the water yet).

So - how about an answer here?

Or even a "fire it up the chain" word?

I mean, it should be on the water.

Like I said, I'll gladly shut up if Kevin, Wayne, whomever tells us "Third party company, gave them money, they tell us nothing!", because, well... it feels familiar.

Thank you.

Will be talking to Palladium Monday or Tuesday- will ask- that is all I can do.

@Zyanitevp: Well, it's been nearly a month, how'd that conversation go?

Latest word from the updates was that container 2 was at the port as of last week, and container 3 was set to be finished 'at the end of next week' (ie; now).

Though the follow up statement of "With those two containers in our warehouse in a few weeks" seems characteristically optimistic, given that it seems to be a ~3 week trek across the ocean, and even if they don't get flagged at Customs, we can probably round it out to roughly a month anyway, between unloading, shipping to the warehouse and getting stuff into place for distribution.

Sure hope they can start on the Battle Cry boxes sooner than October, 'cause that's what it's looking like right now, barring a minor shipping miracle, which could mean late October or even sometime in November for the Showdowns, if they are prioritizing based on order size.

And if that's not bad enough there's still wave two to contend with. Kevin said fall then the stealth move was towards the end of the year and now it's become a big ? for it. Let's see what good news Wayne brings back from China.

Y'know, you guys sure are getting worked up for something that is still less than a two year turnaround from announcement to release. Hell, imagine if you were one of those poor Leviathans players. They almost had to wait out the gap in time between the fourth and fifth "Game of Thrones" (sic) novels. And that was just for the basic game.

Trust me, this is far more transparent and timely than waiting for that game.

Yes, there are things that are worse, thus this is immune to criticism! [/lol]

Clearly you missed something important. It's not that there are delays, it's that the information being communicated does not line up with reality, and ideally that would stop being the case based on solid information. I do believe PB themselves declared that they planned on utilizing a brave new form of transparency, letting us know things the moment they did, good or bad.

It's possible that they cannot ship out ~95% of the backer boxes until the later containers arrive, so it's entirely reasonable to have an interest in container 2 and 3. This is based on the arrival of container 1 lacking 2 of the expansions that were rather important for battle cry boxes, which make up the vast majority of the backer packages, and represent a rather massive snag in the shipping process that someone might want to address.

Edit: the simplest resolution to this concern would be a Battle Cry backer receiving shipping notification. Given that shipping began over a week ago, surely they're moving onto the BCs soon. If not, well, that'd be rather telling.

Any BC backers gotten such an email yet?

Forar wrote:@Zyanitevp: Well, it's been nearly a month, how'd that conversation go?

Latest word from the updates was that container 2 was at the port as of last week, and container 3 was set to be finished 'at the end of next week' (ie; now).

Though the follow up statement of "With those two containers in our warehouse in a few weeks" seems characteristically optimistic, given that it seems to be a ~3 week trek across the ocean, and even if they don't get flagged at Customs, we can probably round it out to roughly a month anyway, between unloading, shipping to the warehouse and getting stuff into place for distribution.

Sure hope they can start on the Battle Cry boxes sooner than October, 'cause that's what it's looking like right now, barring a minor shipping miracle, which could mean late October or even sometime in November for the Showdowns, if they are prioritizing based on order size.

Conversation had, but still waiting for approval to share- trying....

Forar wrote:Yes, there are things that are worse, thus this is immune to criticism! [/lol]

That is not what I said at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I simply stated that you guys are getting worked up over what is a relatively short turnaround.

Forar wrote:Clearly you missed something important. It's not that there are delays, it's that the information being communicated does not line up with reality, and ideally that would stop being the case based on solid information. I do believe PB themselves declared that they planned on utilizing a brave new form of transparency, letting us know things the moment they did, good or bad.

There is a phrase that describes this; "No plan survives contact with the enemy". In this case, the enemy is reality. PB can only give us the information they themselves receive. If the information they get is flawed or false, then that means what we're hearing isn't going to jive with reality. And there are so many variable that can affect the estimates PB is given and then related to us. Just going by what can happen on our side of the Left Pond, there could be freighter malfunctions, union slowdowns on the docks and in the trucking companies, not to mention random acts of Murphy such as the Customs incident. And don't forget about accidents or weather issues. All of which could occur without PB ever finding out anything other than "Sorry, but it seems your shipment is delayed for some unknown reason. Would you like to pay for 'expedited service' on your next container?". Even if PB took their best estimates and multiplied them by four the 'reality' could easily end up exceeding them.

Forar wrote:It's possible that they cannot ship out ~95% of the backer boxes until the later containers arrive, so it's entirely reasonable to have an interest in container 2 and 3. This is based on the arrival of container 1 lacking 2 of the expansions that were rather important for battle cry boxes, which make up the vast majority of the backer packages, and represent a rather massive snag in the shipping process that someone might want to address.

I never said it was unreasonable to be interested. Just that you and others are getting overly worked up over it. I'm chomping at the bit to get my order, but getting frustrated at PB when there is little they can do about it either isn't going to help matters any.

Forar wrote:Edit: the simplest resolution to this concern would be a Battle Cry backer receiving shipping notification. Given that shipping began over a week ago, surely they're moving onto the BCs soon. If not, well, that'd be rather telling.

Any BC backers gotten such an email yet?

I wouldn't mind knowing that myself, since I'm a BC backer myself.

Vang wrote:

Forar wrote:Yes, there are things that are worse, thus this is immune to criticism! [/lol]

That is not what I said at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I simply stated that you guys are getting worked up over what is a relatively short turnaround.

No, you pointed out that Leviathan (whatever that was) had a 2 year turnaround, clearly comparing the nearly 9 month delay that we've seen so far (and let's not kid ourselves, we'll be lucky if wave 2 is in hand in less than a year).

If you didn't intend to equate the two matter, perhaps I misunderstood, but as it stands I don't feel I put anything in your mouth that you didn't place in your post, inadvertently as it might have been.

Edit: and this is all tangential anyways. The point of this thread is that Container 2 was supposed to be in hand already, and isn't. Since it may (we've had neither confirmation nor denial) be key in beginning shipments of Battle Cry+ backers (read: 95% of the backer boxes), it's a rather pressing matter for actual delivery beginning (the less than 200 core box backers represent a drop in the bucket of what needs to be mailed out globally).

We have all kinds of threads to debate who is and isn't justifiably curious/cranky/what represents acceptable delays/communications/etc.

Pertinent to the topic at hand: according to the most recent newsletter, container 2 is at sea!

ETA unknown.

That is about as accurate as we will likely see too...

Forar wrote:No, you pointed out that Leviathan (whatever that was) had a 2 year turnaround, clearly comparing the nearly 9 month delay that we've seen so far (and let's not kid ourselves, we'll be lucky if wave 2 is in hand in less than a year).

Apparently we had a failure to communicate here. Not that it is germane to the conversation but Leviathans is a steampunk wargame involving ironclad airships and set just before WWI if memory serves. As for the 2 year turnaround... I did not say that Leviathans had a two year turnaround. Leviathans had closer to a five year turnaround from announcement to final release, despite the developers saying they would have it ready and available for sale in six months. The only difference between the two is that RTT is taking FAR less longer to get into our hands, has far more minis, and used a Kickstarter to get going. My fault for alluding to the time it took for the last Game of Thrones book to come out, it must be confusing to anyone who doesn't read the books. Sorry for that.

Forar wrote:If you didn't intend to equate the two matter, perhaps I misunderstood, but as it stands I don't feel I put anything in your mouth that you didn't place in your post, inadvertently as it might have been.

Let me spell it out for you then. I did not say that Palladium is immune to criticism over this because "there are things that are worse!". What I am saying (and you're deliberately ignoring) is that you're criticizing Palladium for things out of their control. It's not like Palladium has total control of the manufacturer, the shipping companies, or the trucking services. They can't simply stomp on every little snafu that comes up with the process of getting product into our hands. To be honest, it would not surprise me at all if the ship were to sink on its way here, that you and others would find some way to blame Palladium for it.

Forar wrote:Edit: and this is all tangential anyways. The point of this thread is that Container 2 was supposed to be in hand already, and isn't. Since it may (we've had neither confirmation nor denial) be key in beginning shipments of Battle Cry+ backers (read: 95% of the backer boxes), it's a rather pressing matter for actual delivery beginning (the less than 200 core box backers represent a drop in the bucket of what needs to be mailed out globally).

We have all kinds of threads to debate who is and isn't justifiably curious/cranky/what represents acceptable delays/communications/etc.

Sure, you complained in the OP that what is being said by Palladium isn't lining up with reality. The thing is, Reality doesn't care what anyone says. People tend to give best estimates in the hopes of pacifying the people who scream the most when they really should be giving worst estimates. I somehow doubt that anyone would complain much if Palladium were to announce "Hey, turns out we were wrong about Container #2 arriving at the end of the month. It should be here in the first part of September". To be honest, I'm surprised that Palladium is even posting updates anymore. Even when they post good news now they are going to catch Hell over it.

Vang wrote:The only difference between the two is that RTT is taking FAR less longer to get into our hands, has far more minis, and used a Kickstarter to get going. My fault for alluding to the time it took for the last Game of Thrones book to come out, it must be confusing to anyone who doesn't read the books. Sorry for that.

In theory it will. Delivery in full may well push 3-4 years, based on the time frame they began working on it, so I wouldn't count it out of the running just yet. Adding a year is one thing. Possibly surpassing 400% of estimate is more than a mere 'oops'.

Also, I didn't know Game of Thrones was releasing book versions. I wonder how they'll stand up to A Song of Ice and Fire...

Sure, you complained in the OP that what is being said by Palladium isn't lining up with reality. The thing is, Reality doesn't care what anyone says. People tend to give best estimates in the hopes of pacifying the people who scream the most when they really should be giving worst estimates. I somehow doubt that anyone would complain much if Palladium were to announce "Hey, turns out we were wrong about Container #2 arriving at the end of the month. It should be here in the first part of September". To be honest, I'm surprised that Palladium is even posting updates anymore. Even when they post good news now they are going to catch Hell over it.

Bull.

Palladium's recent choice to say "Look, we don't know when wave two will be" has mostly been met with shrugs and agreement that it's sensible. I'm not happy with the answer, but I can't fault them for it. Hell, it may be the most reasonable thing they've said since this whole thing began.

Part of their problem with communication is that when they're making announcements, it's with *absolute and unwavering certainty*, and only when they clearly become impossible to meet do they have to walk those statements back and it feels disingenuous.

Also, this thread is not "boo hoo, they said container 2 would arrive in mid august and it'll instead arrive at the end of September", it's that said container appears to be a rather pressing part of delivery (seeing as they apparently cannot ship Battle Cry boxes without it), and yet from the updates given, it seems to be mostly an after thought, and the shipping issue in itself has purely been ascertained by backers 'reading between the lines'.

Needing to go over updates with a fine toothed comb and chat with others in the comments just to figure out what's really going down isn't doing much to rebuild what little faith remains in this project. They said they started shipping nearly 3 weeks ago.

They just neglected to mention that 90%+ of us weren't going to get even a shipping notification anytime soon. And that's not 'omg beyond their control', it was something they chose to say (and is technically true, if you like having Rules Lawyers at the table), but it's not like they didn't know they couldn't ship most of the boxes out.

Of course, if you know of a Battle Cry backer who has received their shipping notification, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Vang wrote:To be honest, it would not surprise me at all if the ship were to sink on its way here, that you and others would find some way to blame Palladium for it.

No, I'm going to blame them for not telling us that the container was on the ship that sank for weeks and saying "Everything is great, Rainbows!" the whole time.

Communications is the problem here. I think it has always been with Palladium.

Wow, I started this over 7 weeks ago?

Apparently the fragility of shipping schedules and how much Murphy is out to get these poor models was being channeled strongly that day.

... I think this makes me a prophet?

zyanitevp wrote:Conversation had, but still waiting for approval to share- trying....

Still no word? Man, this approvals process is Draconian.

Step 1, make thread speculating the arrival of container #2.
Step 2 ...........
Step 3, Big Profits!!!

We could have 'em for the other 4, but Wayne's been pretty on the ball with providing info now.

So... thanks for the bump?

Talking to Jeff Burke today, in less than 8 hours- either he or I will update this today- before midnight Eastern.

zyanitevp wrote:Talking to Jeff Burke today, in less than 8 hours- either he or I will update this today- before midnight Eastern.

Well, Wayne has been great about letting us know the status of the containers recently, so the matter is kind of moot at the moment.

Based on Wayne's statements in the updates and on the forums here, C2 will contain pieces to begin shipping Battle Cry boxes, but the way it was put sounded like C3 is what they really need, but that could be a misinterpretation.

I suppose the more pressing question is if they know roughly how many BC's they should be able to start sending out with C2, as in, 500, or 50, or something else. Given the "shipping has started" update of a month ago only accounting for the core box orders, I don't think a little skepticism is unwarranted.

Not that it really matters; they'll ship what they can ship, but it's a particular that comes to mind based on recent events.

Container #2, barring any more unforeseen disasters, will arrive this week. Battle Crys will begin shipping by the following day.

zyanitevp wrote:Container #2, barring any more unforeseen disasters, will arrive this week. Battle Crys will begin shipping by the following day.

... is that the "update"?

Kendachi wrote:

zyanitevp wrote:Container #2, barring any more unforeseen disasters, will arrive this week. Battle Crys will begin shipping by the following day.

... is that the "update"?

Yes- From Kevin and Jeff.

Well good.

It matches nicely with what Wayne said in the update a couple of days ago.

According to WRRD, container 2 arrived at the warehouse yesterday, as expected.

If I'm not mistaken, C3 should have arrived at the port recently as well, though with the recent fire, there may be unavoidable delays, depending on whether or not any backlog has been cleared up.

Now that Container 2 is in house... have any Battle Cries been shipped?

Wayne? Anybody?

In a word......yes

several hundred going by the press releases..

Oddly, one of the lowest Backer Kit numbers we have seen from someone commenting on the KS (65) hasn't gotten notification yet, but someone with a BK# of 1891 and a KS# in the 200's did.

Which throws everything we've heard on its side.

However, even if that's the case, as KS# 31, either they're skipping large orders (double reckless) or international orders (Canadian).