Forums of the Megaverse®

What W.P. should be used with MDC weapons that are physical not energy in nature? Such as big bore and triax pump weapons.

What do you guys and gals think and is there an official opinion?

I would prescribe the generic Heavy Weapons WP, because those weapons are too big bored to be normal rifles.

isawarenshi wrote:What W.P. should be used with MDC weapons that are physical not energy in nature? Such as big bore and triax pump weapons.

What do you guys and gals think and is there an official opinion?

Depends on the specific model/version in question.

Shotguns might cover Pump Weapons, but then they come in a variety of types just like the Big Bore. So I would say if its a "pistol" or "rifle" it uses the appropriate WP, just because the bullets are explosive doesn't mean the weapon stops being a pistol or rifle IMHO. Kickback is the main issue, but that exists with some real world weapons, so I don't see a need for the BB/PW to need a special WP or fall outside the assigned region IMHO.

Svartalf wrote:I would prescribe the generic Heavy Weapons WP, because those weapons are too big bored to be normal rifles.

Same.

I don't believe that there is any official verdict given on this one.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Svartalf wrote:I would prescribe the generic Heavy Weapons WP, because those weapons are too big bored to be normal rifles.

Same.

I don't believe that there is any official verdict given on this one.

The original triax pump that looked like an old barracuda paintball marker shouldn't be a heavy. Heavies are heavies because of their weight not their caliber. A M-249 is a heavy even though it uses the exact same rounds as an M-16 going so far in design that an M-16 magazine can be used to feed the weapon... Though the dummy round on the spring plate usually gets jammed into the gun, so it's only suggested as a last resort.

isawarenshi wrote:What W.P. should be used with MDC weapons that are physical not energy in nature? Such as big bore and triax pump weapons.

What do you guys and gals think and is there an official opinion?

The bigbore weapons are capable of firing normal rounds of their equivalent; that would place shotguns in the shotgun category and pistols in the pistol category. Even if they fire grenades, as these weapons aren't otherwise described as grenade launchers.

Svartalf wrote:I would prescribe the generic Heavy Weapons WP, because those weapons are too big bored to be normal rifles.

It would depend on the Weapon description including size and weight, and the race/size of the operator. Bore size alone wouldn't determine the WP. A Rifle whether it fires a .22 short or a .700 nitro express is still a rifle and uses WP Rifle/Shotgun for a human.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Svartalf wrote:I would prescribe the generic Heavy Weapons WP, because those weapons are too big bored to be normal rifles.

Same.

I don't believe that there is any official verdict given on this one.

The original triax pump that looked like an old barracuda paintball marker shouldn't be a heavy. Heavies are heavies because of their weight not their caliber. A M-249 is a heavy even though it uses the exact same rounds as an M-16 going so far in design that an M-16 magazine can be used to feed the weapon... Though the dummy round on the spring plate usually gets jammed into the gun, so it's only suggested as a last resort.

A M-203 doesn't weigh a lot, but it uses that WP.

isawarenshi wrote:What W.P. should be used with MDC weapons that are physical not energy in nature? Such as big bore and triax pump weapons.

What do you guys and gals think and is there an official opinion?

You would use weapons made of M.D.C. materials as per the type of weapon they are.

M.D. Weapons are used via the W.P. of the type of weapons they are.

I answered the question you asked and the one you meant to ask.

Expanding on the answers...
Just about any rocket/missile launchers and railguns and vehicle mounted weapons the char will need a WP Heavy to operate. If the weapons does MD then the Heavy weapons WP will be the MD heavy weapons WP, otherwise it is just the regular Heavy weapons WP.

The mentioned exampls
The triax pump pistol would use the Auto-pistol WP, and the triax pump rifle would use the Rifle WP (or possibly WP Shotgun.)
The big bore weapons, most would use just the WP pistol or WP rifle. The are some that would be used with WP revolver, and some that would need WP Heavy weapons. None of them would need WP E-Pistol or E-Rifle, not WP MD Heavy.

Regarding weapon sizes;

Google .22 machine gun and you'll be able to find a replica .50 calibre machine gun scaled down to .22 calibre.

What I'm getting at with that piece of information is that the size of the weapon does not matter; it doesn't say it matters within the book, because by all accounts it's the manner of use of that weapon. Like, if you are a titan, and you get a titan-sized pistol grip for your JA-12; are you really using it as an e-rifle at that point, given that you can one-hand it and the manner you're using it in is as a pistol?

It's the manner of use that's important.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The mentioned examples
The triax pump pistol would use the Auto-pistol WP, and the triax pump rifle would use the Rifle WP (or possibly WP Shotgun.)

Unless they count as grenade launcher.

Dog_O_War wrote:Regarding weapon sizes;

Google .22 machine gun and you'll be able to find a replica .50 calibre machine gun scaled down to .22 calibre.

What I'm getting at with that piece of information is that the size of the weapon does not matter; it doesn't say it matters within the book, because by all accounts it's the manner of use of that weapon. Like, if you are a titan, and you get a titan-sized pistol grip for your JA-12; are you really using it as an e-rifle at that point, given that you can one-hand it and the manner you're using it in is as a pistol?

It's the manner of use that's important.

I will go with a similar argument lets say you have a 7ft char with a 40+ supernatural strength would a CTT-P40 be an energy rifle, a heavy MD energy, or a wp Energy pistol? and I note it does not have a note of how much strength is needed to eliminate the penalties for use that the CTT-M20 has.

on the other hand look at the "shemarian railgun" either the 4000, or 6000 I know they basically use WP heavy MD weapons, but if you look at the picture of how they are designed to be held and fire, they are basically a long barreled, and counter weighted semi auto pistol (that weighs over 100 lbs)

guardiandashi wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:Regarding weapon sizes;

Google .22 machine gun and you'll be able to find a replica .50 calibre machine gun scaled down to .22 calibre.

What I'm getting at with that piece of information is that the size of the weapon does not matter; it doesn't say it matters within the book, because by all accounts it's the manner of use of that weapon. Like, if you are a titan, and you get a titan-sized pistol grip for your JA-12; are you really using it as an e-rifle at that point, given that you can one-hand it and the manner you're using it in is as a pistol?

It's the manner of use that's important.

I will go with a similar argument lets say you have a 7ft char with a 40+ supernatural strength would a CTT-P40 be an energy rifle, a heavy MD energy, or a wp Energy pistol? and I note it does not have a note of how much strength is needed to eliminate the penalties for use that the CTT-M20 has.

on the other hand look at the "shemarian railgun" either the 4000, or 6000 I know they basically use WP heavy MD weapons, but if you look at the picture of how they are designed to be held and fire, they are basically a long barreled, and counter weighted semi auto pistol (that weighs over 100 lbs)

Heavy for humans rifle for shemarrians cuz it still has a long barrel and... Wait maybe submachinegun.

Dog_O_War wrote:Regarding weapon sizes;

Google .22 machine gun and you'll be able to find a replica .50 calibre machine gun scaled down to .22 calibre.

What I'm getting at with that piece of information is that the size of the weapon does not matter; it doesn't say it matters within the book, because by all accounts it's the manner of use of that weapon. Like, if you are a titan, and you get a titan-sized pistol grip for your JA-12; are you really using it as an e-rifle at that point, given that you can one-hand it and the manner you're using it in is as a pistol?

It's the manner of use that's important.

so when going into cc in buildings were taught to bring the M-16s rifle but over our shoulder, bringing the pistol grip against our shoulder, cocking ITT to the side a little so the iron sights are in field of vision. Does that turn it into a heavy? Does the fastest revolver shooter have to take submachinegun because he's so fast? What about someone using using a glock 17 or 18? How about an original fully auto M-16A1 or an HK G11? What is the deloniation of purpose between a rifle and machinegun? How is a machinegun, flamethrower and missilelauncher all used for the same purpose that is different from a rifle or pistol, in other word can't use "to kill things" cuz then a sword, pistol, spear and rifle are all covered by WP heavy.

Dog_O_War wrote:Regarding weapon sizes;

Google .22 machine gun and you'll be able to find a replica .50 calibre machine gun scaled down to .22 calibre.

What I'm getting at with that piece of information is that the size of the weapon does not matter; it doesn't say it matters within the book, because by all accounts it's the manner of use of that weapon. Like, if you are a titan, and you get a titan-sized pistol grip for your JA-12; are you really using it as an e-rifle at that point, given that you can one-hand it and the manner you're using it in is as a pistol?

It's the manner of use that's important.

obviously a heavy weapon also isn't heavy to a titan. So it is still weight and obviously if your changing the size of the user then that is taken into account.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The mentioned examples
The triax pump pistol would use the Auto-pistol WP, and the triax pump rifle would use the Rifle WP (or possibly WP Shotgun.)

Unless they count as grenade launcher.

*shrugs* I said the ones the do defiantly cover those weapons, didn't think of that one that might cover them cause it is on the edge.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The mentioned examples
The triax pump pistol would use the Auto-pistol WP, and the triax pump rifle would use the Rifle WP (or possibly WP Shotgun.)

Unless they count as grenade launcher.

*shrugs* didn't think of that one that might cover them cause it is on the edge.

I'll go with that to, just like a paintballgun and grenade.launcher I imagine they lobb the rounds.

So do they go thump like a grenade launcher or thic like a paintball gun or POP like my RAP4 Grwnade launcher? Hmm. Add that to the list of this mr. Owl and the world may never know.

Is there a Marker WP? *is too lazy right now to get Australia out*

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The mentioned examples
The triax pump pistol would use the Auto-pistol WP, and the triax pump rifle would use the Rifle WP (or possibly WP Shotgun.)

Unless they count as grenade launcher.

*shrugs* I said the ones the do defiantly cover those weapons, didn't think of that one that might cover them cause it is on the edge.

I'm saying that personally, I've never used WP Pistol or Rifle for those weapons, and I probably wouldn't allow it.
I've always gone with WP Heavy, because they seem much more like grenade launchers than they seem like normal pistols or rifles.

I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right... but I am possibly right, because the weapon is vague about its nature, and which WP it uses is pretty much GM's call.
(Well, within reason. I think we can all agree that WP Chain isn't applicable...)

I just used WP energy pistol and energy rifle, I'm not particularly fussed either way though.

I always used it after RUE that WP energy rifle is for just that and WP energy pistol is for just that. It was pretty hard for me to remember what gets a bonus and what does not when I started playing Rifts.

Ask your GM, some use e-pistol or e-rifle, others use rifle or pistol.

Solid projectile weapons shouldn't use "E" proficiencies. Even the Boom Gun is labled wrong for the Glitter Boy OCC, they get Heavy Energy Weapons and i'm like...how does that help them put rail gun rounds down range?

As to a triax pump, big bore or other type of pistol/rifle weapon that uses larger ammunition, WP Pistol and WP Rifle are still acceptable, I think they were intended as highly accurate launchers. A rifle/pistol pattern for them makes sense.

And completely aside: I hate big bore beause the TX pump weapons are better and, realistically, should have the same knock down effect.

Its actually Heavy MD weapons in the book, not heavy energy weapons.

W.P. Heavy Mega-Damage Weapons: Includes plasma ejectors,
M.D. rail guns, rocket launchers, mini-missile launchers, and weapon
turrets and cannons built into or which are a key part of giant robots,
tanks, aircraft and other combat vehicles. A common skill of designated
gunners. Damage varies with the type of weapon and manufacturer.

Quiet you, i'm still asleep. Why are you letting me post anyway? What a jerk...*lights cig and grumbles off*

guardiandashi wrote:I will go with a similar argument lets say you have a 7ft char with a 40+ supernatural strength would a CTT-P40 be an energy rifle, a heavy MD energy, or a wp Energy pistol? and I note it does not have a note of how much strength is needed to eliminate the penalties for use that the CTT-M20 has.

on the other hand look at the "shemarian railgun" either the 4000, or 6000 I know they basically use WP heavy MD weapons, but if you look at the picture of how they are designed to be held and fire, they are basically a long barreled, and counter weighted semi auto pistol (that weighs over 100 lbs)

I can't give you an official ruling, all I can say is that the ground-work is laid out in the books for it.