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The only place ive seen that defines how much all the repair skills can filed repair is in the heroes unlimited galaxy guide.

The Robotech New Generation Sourcebook has the most comprehensive crash and collision damage information.

The falling rules for MDC creatures can be assumed from information in the Xiticix Invasion book.

Rifter #37 has some great expanded Mega-Hero options and base creation guidelines.
However, my favorite part is the 'Dual Class' hero guidelines. While intended for Power Categories, I feel the same guidelines work for well for combining OCCs as well. Good for closing gap for ideas like Body Fixer/Full-Conversion Borg.

Killer Cyborg wrote:The falling rules for MDC creatures can be assumed from information in the Xiticix Invasion book.

*flips through* I am reminded once again how little I pull that one out, what should I be looking under?

The old Magic of Palladium Books has Morale Rules for NPCs. While it is far from a comprehensive guide on what can influence an NPC's reaction, it is nice to have a "Common Sense table" for enemies.

Armorlord wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:The falling rules for MDC creatures can be assumed from information in the Xiticix Invasion book.

*flips through* I am reminded once again how little I pull that one out, what should I be looking under?

Xiticix Invasion, p. 16, rules that MDC creatures that fall off of one of the Xiticix bridges takes 1 MD per every three stories (8-14', usually 10') that they fall.

This ind of fall does more damage than a usual fall, presumably because of the spiky resin that covers the ground at the base of the towers.
The damage for a normal SDC character falling is 1d6 MD per 10', but if a normal SDC being falls off of one of these bridges, they take 3d6 SDC damage per story that they fall.
Which is 3x the normal amount of damage.
Which indicates that the 1 MD/3 story rule for MD beings is likely to be 3x their normal falling damage.
Which means that that distance should triple if you're just falling onto normal ground, to a ratio of 1 MD/9 story.
Which easily rounds off to 100, since a story is likely to be about 10'-12' high.

So while the rule for a mega-damage creature falling onto normal ground isn't clearly spelled out, it appears to be about 1 MD/100' that they fall.

The only magic spell that can completely cure radiation poisoning is Restoration.

The Beast wrote:The only magic spell that can completely cure radiation poisoning is Restoration.

Were is that from?

Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, page 85. Granted though, the book was released back in '89, so it is possible that a spell or two written afterwards could work, but the healing spells commonly found in the main book of each setting only delay death by radiation poisoning.

Armorlord wrote:The Robotech New Generation Sourcebook has the most comprehensive crash and collision damage information.

There is crash tables in AU:GG for starships and crash damage numbers in HU2GMG.

The Beast wrote:Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, page 85. Granted though, the book was released back in '89, so it is possible that a spell or two written afterwards could work, but the healing spells commonly found in the main book of each setting only delay death by radiation poisoning.

Reconstructive Restoration can heal anything, although it does inflict some fairly minor permanent penalties on the one being cured.

The Beast wrote:Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, page 85. Granted though, the book was released back in '89, so it is possible that a spell or two written afterwards could work, but the healing spells commonly found in the main book of each setting only delay death by radiation poisoning.

And that also presumes that the form of radiation poisoning in the book is 'normal radiation poisoning' It may, or may not be.....though even if it is it doesn't tell us much about how much exposure it takes to get poisoned that severely....but its a start.
And there have been a few spells released since that would work....though most of them are in the same general power level as Restoration....

Rifts Game Masters Guide

1. All laser weapons, from pistols to cannons, have no "kick," unlike
projectile weapons which always have some amount of recoil and
sound. Range is double in outer space.
2. Heavy energy weapons, ion blasters, particle beams and plasma
ejectors have some amount of recoil and/or reverberate with energy, to
make some kind of sound and offer some kind of kick.
3. Lasers are completely silent! The beams do not make any noise
except for the click of the trigger, the soft hum of the energy clip and
the sizzling "ssswhack" sound it makes when it hits (and sears through
or into) its target. This is one reason lasers are preferred by assassins
and snipers.
4. Most laser weapons fire a short light beam or blast, rather than
one long, continuous beam; mainly to conserve energy and to prevent
the weapon from overheating.
5. Rapid-fire "pulse" lasers are the latest in laser technology and
typically fire two or three super fast, high-powered laser beams in a
matter of a half a second or less with each pull of the trigger. This
quick, multi-blast often appears as one, and does greater damage than
the more conventional single blast.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:The Robotech New Generation Sourcebook has the most comprehensive crash and collision damage information.

There is crash tables in AU:GG for starships and crash damage numbers in HU2GMG.

Ah, but New Generation has the most comprehensive rules, covering SDC and MDC, MD vs SD, passengers, various size modifiers, and is the most recent.
Most certainly an obscure place for it to be hidden away. At least the other two make some sense it you were trying to look it up.

Plus it confirmed all the things I've ever said about MD physics and kinetic energy over the years.

to me the Rifter is an obscure source. I sometimes use rules from there.

Armorlord wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:The Robotech New Generation Sourcebook has the most comprehensive crash and collision damage information.

There is crash tables in AU:GG for starships and crash damage numbers in HU2GMG.

Ah, but New Generation has the most comprehensive rules, covering SDC and MDC, MD vs SD, passengers, various size modifiers, and is the most recent.
Most certainly an obscure place for it to be hidden away. At least the other two make some sense it you were trying to look it up.

Plus it confirmed all the things I've ever said about MD physics and kinetic energy over the years.

And are not a part of the megavercial Settings as per PB official rules about conversions from RT.

The "Emergency Landing", "Random Damage Chart". and "Crash Table" are on pages 165 & 166 of AU:GG.

The question being "Are crash tables that are "Officially"! separate from the Megaverse but more popular book is more obscure then same from a less popular book that is a part of the Megaverse?"

AU:GG also has Cyberjacking rules and text on Space survival.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Armorlord wrote:The Robotech New Generation Sourcebook has the most comprehensive crash and collision damage information.

There is crash tables in AU:GG for starships and crash damage numbers in HU2GMG.

Ah, but New Generation has the most comprehensive rules, covering SDC and MDC, MD vs SD, passengers, various size modifiers, and is the most recent.
Most certainly an obscure place for it to be hidden away. At least the other two make some sense it you were trying to look it up.

Plus it confirmed all the things I've ever said about MD physics and kinetic energy over the years.

And are not a part of the megavercial Settings as per PB official rules about conversions from RT.

The "Emergency Landing", "Random Damage Chart". and "Crash Table" are on pages 165 & 166 of AU:GG.

The question being "Are crash tables that are "Officially"! separate from the Megaverse but more popular book is more obscure then same from a less popular book that is a part of the Megaverse?"

AU:GG also has Cyberjacking rules and text on Space survival.

There is no 'Megaversal setting' though. So ANY rule that is not in a line is....not in that line. Period. Dot. End of Story. Now if there is a rule that is USEFUL many GM's will bring it over as a house rule, but its not official to a line till its actually published in a line. Which actually makes the Rifter #2 rules on Cyberjacking so awesome. They are official rules, and presented for several lines. (Making them my pick for 'best of the obscure')
On a slightly related note.....is there anything on the 'No Conversions' that applies to stuff outside the RT IP? (I.E. the crash rules vs say Invid, or Robotechnology?)
Or put more bluntly, I found the "no posting of stats of things from the show' rule. I can't find a rule about 'no using the rules outside the book' Can anyone point me to it? Or is it one of those Urban Legends?

I said "the megavercial Settings" as to mean the the settings that are apart of the main part of PBs gaming system. (Or to say the PB products that are not RT). And since the exclusionary rules about no conversions to or from RT is official.....that leads one to believe that even more then the different megavercial Settings differing canons, that crossing the RT divide is even less ""optional"" then including stuff from the rifter.

If you look HOW I presented the AU:GG cyberjacking you would see all that I did was mention it. I did not exclude the R2 hacking rules from canon. But there are two things....the AU:GG rules are basically a copy of the text in R2, and it came out after R2. I say 'basically' cause I have only skimmed both and they "seam" 'basically' the same.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I said "the megavercial Settings" as to mean the the settings that are apart of the main part of PBs gaming system. (Or to say the PB products that are not RT). And since the exclusionary rules about no conversions to or from RT is official.....that leads one to believe that even more then the different megavercial Settings differing canons, that crossing the RT divide is even less ""optional"" then including stuff from the rifter.

If you look HOW I presented the AU:GG cyberjacking you would see all that I did was mention it. I did not exclude the R2 hacking rules from canon. But there are two things....the AU:GG rules are basically a copy of the text in R2, and it came out after R2. I say 'basically' cause I have only skimmed both and they "seam" 'basically' the same.

The issue though is there ISNT a 'no conversions of rules' policy. That's a myth. The only part that is not allowed to be converted are Races/Mecha/Items. The rules can be freely used....Unless you have a source to back up your statement.
And I will say it again, there ISNT a 'Megaversal Settings' There is just Rifts, Paladium Fantasy, Robotech, Dead Reign, Splicers, After the Bomb, Ninjas and Superspies, Systems Failure, Hero's Unlimited, etc....each is its own setting, with its own rules. Robotech is not some special flower with its own rules that none may look at. The closes to that in Palladium is Recon. Or to be clearer. Robotech is just as much a part of the Megaversal Setting as anything else. Either all of it is a part, or none of it is....


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54687

Jefffar wrote: Copyright: Posting of game conversions for items/mecha/characters and similar seen in the series is a violation of the Board's copyright policy. So is the posting of links to sites containing game statistics for items/mecha/characters and similar seen in the series.

eliakon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I said "the megavercial Settings" as to mean the the settings that are apart of the main part of PBs gaming system. (Or to say the PB products that are not RT). And since the exclusionary rules about no conversions to or from RT is official.....that leads one to believe that even more then the different megavercial Settings differing canons, that crossing the RT divide is even less ""optional"" then including stuff from the rifter.

If you look HOW I presented the AU:GG cyberjacking you would see all that I did was mention it. I did not exclude the R2 hacking rules from canon. But there are two things....the AU:GG rules are basically a copy of the text in R2, and it came out after R2. I say 'basically' cause I have only skimmed both and they "seam" 'basically' the same.

The issue though is there ISNT a 'no conversions of rules' policy. That's a myth. The only part that is not allowed to be converted are Races/Mecha/Items. The rules can be freely used....Unless you have a source to back up your statement.
And I will say it again, there ISNT a 'Megaversal Settings' There is just Rifts, Paladium Fantasy, Robotech, Dead Reign, Splicers, After the Bomb, Ninjas and Superspies, Systems Failure, Hero's Unlimited, etc....each is its own setting, with its own rules. Robotech is not some special flower with its own rules that none may look at. The closes to that in Palladium is Recon. Or to be clearer. Robotech is just as much a part of the Megaversal Setting as anything else. Either all of it is a part, or none of it is....


http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/foru ... =9&t=54687

Jefffar wrote: Copyright: Posting of game conversions for items/mecha/characters and similar seen in the series is a violation of the Board's copyright policy. So is the posting of links to sites containing game statistics for items/mecha/characters and similar seen in the series.

I just want to add to this that rules originally appearing in Shadow Chronicles and other Robotech 2nd Ed books are already being converted, officially, for other settings.
The Quick Roll tables for attributes, originally in Shadow Chronicles, is also in Dead Reign
The Special Aptitude Table from Shadow Chronicles has appeared in Dead Reign and the Nightbane Survival Guide.

I supposed the Quick Roll Tables themselves are deserving of mention in this thread. So, I guess consider them mentioned.

There is the rule about the maximum rage of chi powers.
It is in one of the N&S editions somewhere.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is the rule about the maximum rage of chi powers.
It is in one of the N&S editions somewhere.

In the 2006 stealth update to the conversion book chi is replaced with ISP and ninjas and superspies powers can be taken by psionics under some circumstances.

Riftmaker wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is the rule about the maximum rage of chi powers.
It is in one of the N&S editions somewhere.

In the 2006 stealth update to the conversion book chi is replaced with ISP and ninjas and superspies powers can be taken by psionics under some circumstances.

*yet again into the breach of someone's misunderstanding cause they didn't READ what they were reading*

First starts with the basic concept of the Rifts conversion books.
No, the Rifts Conversion Books only talk about what happens [i]In Rifts ONLY!!!![/i]. The RCBs do not effect the canon of any of the other settings.

Part two.
Yes, there is an section in the RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.
Much like the Martial Art Psi Powers in the rifts china books are powered by ISP. *burns them in effragee yet again and spits on them*
They use ISP, they are Psi powers.
Chi powers use Chi to power them.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Riftmaker wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is the rule about the maximum rage of chi powers.
It is in one of the N&S editions somewhere.

In the 2006 stealth update to the conversion book chi is replaced with ISP and ninjas and superspies powers can be taken by psionics under some circumstances.

*yet again into the breach of someone's misunderstanding cause they didn't READ what they were reading*

First starts with the basic concept of the Rifts conversion books.
No, the Rifts Conversion Books only talk about what happens [i]In Rifts ONLY!!!![/i]. The RCBs do not effect the canon of any of the other settings.

Part two.
Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.
Much like the Martial Art Psi Powers in the rifts china books are powered by ISP. *burns them in effragee yet again and spits on them*
They use ISP, they are Psi powers.
Chi powers use Chi to power them.

Well, first of all, your assessment of the RCB1(r) is incorrect. There are multiple 'General Conversion' sections, as well there are sections about converting MDC TO SDC, which would be the reversal of what is happening "In Rifts", as well as be applicable to splicers coming to SDC settings.
Stating what you did above is incorrect. Stating it in the manner you did is insulting.

But since you want to speak about reading and misunderstanding lets give it a go:

Riftmaker wrote:conversion book chi is replaced with ISP and ninjas and superspies powers can be taken by psionics under some circumstances.

*looks in conversion book one*
Why lookey there, guidelines and recommended restrictions, just like Riftmaker mentioned.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.

So, you are saying that in RCB1&RCB1r Chi is replaced with ISP and and powers are considered psionics under certain circumstances.
If only someone had mentioned that before.
Not sure what you are objecting to about Riftmaker's post.

Riftmaker wrote:In the 2006 stealth update to the conversion book

Well, other than this. I am fairly certain that of the many stealth updates that have been uncovered that CB one has not been on the receiving end. There was a revised edition, but that is printed right on the cover, nothing stealthy.

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.

So, you are saying that in RCB1&RCB1r Chi is replaced with ISP and and powers are considered psionics under certain circumstances.
If only someone had mentioned that before.
Not sure what you are objecting to about Riftmaker's post.

Those are the wrong words for what I wrote.
What I said is that GM's have the option to let chars have psi powers that mirror the abilities of chi powers. Which is what the RCB1r says.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.

So, you are saying that in RCB1&RCB1r Chi is replaced with ISP and and powers are considered psionics under certain circumstances.
If only someone had mentioned that before.
Not sure what you are objecting to about Riftmaker's post.

Those are the wrong words for what I wrote.
What I said is that GM's have the option to let chars have psi powers that mirror the abilities of chi powers. Which is what the RCB1r says.

Based on RCB1r the words I used, and that Riftmaker used, are completely accurate.

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.

So, you are saying that in RCB1&RCB1r Chi is replaced with ISP and and powers are considered psionics under certain circumstances.
If only someone had mentioned that before.
Not sure what you are objecting to about Riftmaker's post.

Those are the wrong words for what I wrote.
What I said is that GM's have the option to let chars have psi powers that mirror the abilities of chi powers. Which is what the RCB1r says.

Based on RCB1r the words I used, and that Riftmaker used, are completely accurate.

The words Riftmaker and you used are not at all accurate because you didn't get the "Concepts" correct.
The words I used are accurate because I got the "Concepts" correct.
--
No, ISP Does nor "Replace" Chi. The Whole power is changed to a psi-power. Different concept.

No, not in "Some Situations."
In "ONE Situation" in which the text being refferenced has any effect. When the GM decides to convert a chi-power into a psi-power for a char to use "as a Psi power".
------------
No, The RBM's text does not change CANON in any setting other then RIFTS.
The Text you pointed to about the converting MDC to SDC talks about changing RIFTS from MDC to SDC.
-------------
If you fail in the critical reading you do not get the Details & Concepts corrects. And Yes, the words you choose to use to represent what you are trying to say, affect what you actually say.
--------------------------
And NO!!! I did not want this stupid argument yet again.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

13eowulf wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yes, there is an section in both the RCB1&RCB1r that says that "Optionally" Rifts GMs can use Chi powers & skills as psi powers. Having the new Psi-powers powered by ISP.

So, you are saying that in RCB1&RCB1r Chi is replaced with ISP and and powers are considered psionics under certain circumstances.
If only someone had mentioned that before.
Not sure what you are objecting to about Riftmaker's post.

Those are the wrong words for what I wrote.
What I said is that GM's have the option to let chars have psi powers that mirror the abilities of chi powers. Which is what the RCB1r says.

Based on RCB1r the words I used, and that Riftmaker used, are completely accurate.

The words Riftmaker and you used are not at all accurate because you didn't get the "Concepts" correct.
The words I used are accurate because I got the "Concepts" correct.
--
No, ISP Does nor "Replace" Chi. The Whole power is changed to a psi-power. Different concept.

No, not in "Some Situations."
In "ONE Situation" in which the text being refferenced has any effect. When the GM decides to convert a chi-power into a psi-power for a char to use "as a Psi power".
------------
No, The RBM's text does not change CANON in any setting other then RIFTS.
The Text you pointed to about the converting MDC to SDC talks about changing RIFTS from MDC to SDC.
-------------
If you fail in the critical reading you do not get the Details & Concepts corrects. And Yes, the words you choose to use to represent what you are trying to say, affect what you actually say.
--------------------------
And NO!!! I did not want this stupid argument yet again.

I am sure there is a way to say this with out being rude, condescending, or insulting.
How about something like this
-In the Rifts Conversion Books an optional rule is introduced.
-This optional rule allows for Chi powers to be replaced by psionics. (the apparent intent is to streamline the system and eliminate stray line specific statistics, much as was done with the conversion notes on mutant animals)
-As a side effect of this change, a second option is introduced that would allow some psychics to select some of these abilities in addition to, or instead of normal powers. (In effect making a new category of psi powers much like healing or sensitive....chi)
-Since the rule is not Rifts specific per se (the conversion books are intended to allow for GMs to bring things from rifts to other games also)....We now have a hidden rule "there is an optional new sub-category of psionic powers in the Conversion books, that coincidentally also have some optional rules for removing Chi for games that want to use the other portions of N&SS but not introduce Chi"

eliakon wrote:
-This optional rule allows for Chi powers to be replaced by psionics.

Again, Bad Concept.

That "The GM can duplicate chi powers as Psi powers." is a correct way to state the base concept of the text.

It does not say that "chi power using ISP" Nor does it say that "the chi powers are replaced with psi powers".

ALL it says is that GMs can duplicate chi powers with Psi powers.

People get frustrated when others do not get the concept even when it's been plainly said to them.

It is sort of like if some one came and said that PPE fueled psionics because there was a section of text that said that GMs could make up spells the duplicated psi powers. And you kept trying to point out that they were wrong but point out that the text only said that the GMs were only making up new spells that duplicate the psi powers.

Then having another person trying to support the 1st even though you have already plainly said what the text said.
People do get frustrated when they are ignoring you saying !!EXACTLY!! what the text says.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

eliakon wrote:
-This optional rule allows for Chi powers to be replaced by psionics.

Again, Bad Concept.

That "The GM can duplicate chi powers as Psi powers." is a correct way to state the base concept of the text.

It does not say that "chi power using ISP" Nor does it say that "the chi powers are replaced with psi powers".

ALL it says is that GMs can duplicate chi powers with Psi powers.

People get frustrated when others do not get the concept even when it's been plainly said to them.

It is sort of like if some one came and said that PPE fueled psionics because there was a section of text that said that GMs could make up spells the duplicated psi powers. And you kept trying to point out that they were wrong but point out that the text only said that the GMs were only making up new spells that duplicate the psi powers.

Then having another person trying to support the 1st even though you have already plainly said what the text said.
People do get frustrated when they are ignoring you saying !!EXACTLY!! what the text says.

Actually its says 'here are some new Oriental Martial Arts Powers. They are available to certain psions (but are not explicitly psionics), here are their ISP costs. There is the note in vibrating palm about MD costing x4 Chi (or ISP). So I guess its sort of correct.
The question of course from both sides is what do the statements "...came up with a bunch of great Martial Arts Powers that one can easily argue are psionic in nature." and "..I have modified these Martial Arts Powers into equivalent psionics ones." MEAN
Does they mean that under the conversion book they ARE changed (I have modified these), or that they CAN be changed ("In that spirit I.."), or that their is a equivalent option but that the original is unchanged ('limit availability to...' which is a different criteria than 'have the MAF in question'). All three have support. I think that a separate thread on this topic for instance could be interesting (assuming that its actual discussion of what is meant by the various statements and not just a stubborn rehash of various peoples stances followed by a lot of "nuh uh your wrong") But it is likely beyond the scope of this thread as the nature of the issue is...cloudy.

But what *IS* unequivocally clear is that there ARE new powers on pg52 of the rCB1, and that those powers are fueled by ISP, are psionic in nature, and can be taken by some characters. And that, in and of itself is a nifty obscure rule.

N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

TMNT has rules for "team" building in character creation. I don't think I've seen that anywhere else.

Robotech 1Edition's Invid Invasion/Sentinels Books under the BME OCC have repair penalties and time considerations for said activities.

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

eliakon wrote:But what *IS* unequivocally clear is that there ARE new powers on pg52 of the rCB1, and that those powers are fueled by ISP, are psionic in nature, and can be taken by some characters.

As this statement is the concept is correct, because it says the new powers are psi-powers.

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

Which I would disagree with The Beast. The text of the Warrior's Spirit Kata (N&Sr page 123) shows exactly how the MA % works. Having the target(s) of the char's attention roll over the MA% or be intimidated by the char or feel they can trust the char. (like a saving throw)
It can also be used to as an example of how to use the PB % also.

Because there is no agreement/consensus on what the WSK text represents I usually say that others disagree with using the WSK text as the basis for how the MA% works.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

Which I would disagree with The Beast. The text of the Warrior's Spirit Kata (N&Sr page 123) shows exactly how the MA % works. Having the target(s) of the char's attention roll over the MA% or be intimidated by the char or feel they can trust the char. (like a saving throw)
It can also be used to as an example of how to use the PB % also.

Because there is no agreement/consensus on what the WSK text represents I usually say that others disagree with using the WSK text as the basis for how the MA% works.

As you said there is no clear consensus on the issue. Which is sad since the Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress are so woefully under developed that its not even funny. I am in the camp of 'this is a special version' since it says 'unnerved by the warrior kata' and not 'unnerved by their intimidation' but I can also see how someone could read it the other way.
Regardless it is useful, and obscure.

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

I don't have the book so can't comment directly and haven't looked at it in a long time specifically. However, IINM that is the only place that I know of where those particular type of Attribute Skills are even talked about, so while it may not a perfect answer, at least it can be shown to give a general idea of how they are supposed to work. That is references a specific power is noted, but unlike the attribute section at least it gives an idea of how it is supposed to work.

ShadowLogan wrote:

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

I don't have the book so can't comment directly and haven't looked at it in a long time specifically. However, IINM that is the only place that I know of where those particular type of Attribute Skills are even talked about, so while it may not a perfect answer, at least it can be shown to give a general idea of how they are supposed to work. That is references a specific power is noted, but unlike the attribute section at least it gives an idea of how it is supposed to work.

The use of the kata either raises the martial artists' M.A. to 20, or increases it by 6. It seems to me to be a logical ruling to say that the text which follows, about how the opponent must roll over the increased Trust/Intimidate percent, can be used as a guideline for how Trust/Intimidate and even Charm/Impress could be used in general.

I dont think it is exactly obscure, but I have not seen it often used (it is optional after all), but in the RUE (and HU2, havent checked other settings) there is a rule regarding using SNPS and Melee weapons that states the weapon is in danger of breaking whenever a single blow inflicts more than 3x the weapon's maximum base damage. 5x for 'very well crafted' or 'sturdy' weapons. For each blow that exceeds the threshold there is a 30% chance the weapon will break.
Magical weapons are exempted from this.

It is worth noting that in the rule does not make any distinction between SDC and MDC (in the RUE at any rate)

In Heroes Unlimited Second Edition, having the Wrestling Skill gives you access to all holds at level 1. With HTH Martial Arts, you get all holds at level 3. HTH Expert gets them all at level 4, and HTH Basic gets them all at level 5.

eliakon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

Which I would disagree with The Beast. The text of the Warrior's Spirit Kata (N&Sr page 123) shows exactly how the MA % works. Having the target(s) of the char's attention roll over the MA% or be intimidated by the char or feel they can trust the char. (like a saving throw)
It can also be used to as an example of how to use the PB % also.

Because there is no agreement/consensus on what the WSK text represents I usually say that others disagree with using the WSK text as the basis for how the MA% works.

As you said there is no clear consensus on the issue. Which is sad since the Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress are so woefully under developed that its not even funny. I am in the camp of 'this is a special version' since it says 'unnerved by the warrior kata' and not 'unnerved by their intimidation' but I can also see how someone could read it the other way.
Regardless it is useful, and obscure.

I to can see how people would can take the text to mean it is just how that kata uses the MA%.
I don't see any exclusnionaler text or text hinting that limits the usage to just the WSK. *shrugs*

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

eliakon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

The Beast wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:N&SS, one of the martial arts powers details how MA/PB attribute skills (Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress) work. I forget the specific citation to look it up (and don't own the book, but I know its in there) . However it isn't in the Attribute section where one expects to see it, so that would make it obscure.

That's explaining how that particular works, not necessarily how trust/intimidate works.

Which I would disagree with The Beast. The text of the Warrior's Spirit Kata (N&Sr page 123) shows exactly how the MA % works. Having the target(s) of the char's attention roll over the MA% or be intimidated by the char or feel they can trust the char. (like a saving throw)
It can also be used to as an example of how to use the PB % also.

Because there is no agreement/consensus on what the WSK text represents I usually say that others disagree with using the WSK text as the basis for how the MA% works.

As you said there is no clear consensus on the issue. Which is sad since the Trust/Intimidate and Charm/Impress are so woefully under developed that its not even funny. I am in the camp of 'this is a special version' since it says 'unnerved by the warrior kata' and not 'unnerved by their intimidation' but I can also see how someone could read it the other way.
Regardless it is useful, and obscure.

I to can see how people would can take the text to mean it is just how that kata uses the MA%.
I don't see any exclusnionaler text or text hinting that limits the usage to just the WSK. *shrugs*

There would need to be text indicating that's how the attribute functions beyond that power, not text excluding that possibility.

HU2 has rules for learning new skills beyond what you're allowed to with your education level.

Killer Cyborg wrote:There would need to be text indicating that's how the attribute functions beyond that power, not text excluding that possibility.

Because there are nether is the reason there is no consensus. In fact KS's official stance is "The GM decides how they want to use the MA%" means that this is a 'Schrodinger's Cat' of a item. It is nether and both at the same time till the game's GM decides which it is.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:There would need to be text indicating that's how the attribute functions beyond that power, not text excluding that possibility.

Because there are nether is the reason there is no consensus. In fact KS's official stance is "The GM decides how they want to use the MA%" means that this is a 'Schrodinger's Cat' of a item. It is nether and both at the same time till the game's GM decides which it is.

I mostly agree.
Point was simply that the lack of statement that MA works the same way in other situations means that there is next to no reason to assume that's how the power works in any other situation.

But yes, we are left in a vacuum of any real, answers.

The Beast wrote:HU2 has rules for learning new skills beyond what you're allowed to with your education level.

It would seem i finally need to buy HU2.

Alrik Vas wrote:

The Beast wrote:HU2 has rules for learning new skills beyond what you're allowed to with your education level.

It would seem i finally need to buy HU2.

You might also find some other information that might be useful with bits in the Super Powers descriptions that would apply weather it was Super Power Generated or not. More easily translated to other SDC settings than MDC ones.

I don/t worry about the conversion thing. I don't even like super powers. I'd just be looking at anything that could improve the experioence of the game i'm running right now.

I'm not suggesting you use the Super Powers directly, but in a few cases those powers do provide information that can be potentially useful w/o using the Super Power(s) and might qualify as obsurcure places for rules. Using them in an MDC setting might require some conversion in places.

Examples all are from Heroes Unlimited 2E:
APS: Fire (pg241-4) deals with the effects of heat at various temperatures for people.

APS: Plant (pg247-8) deals with coming into contact with plant secreations like Poision Ivy

Control Elemtal Forces: Earth (pg257-9) has the effect of Quicksand (can use it for alternate traps)

Control Radiation (pg268-70) has information on Melting Point Temperature and damage (combine w/APS Fire information...), also discusses effects of nuclear radiation poisoning

Plant Control (pg285-6) has AR/SDC stats for grast, weeds, vines, shrubs, bushes, and trees of various sizes

That's a pretty good point, thanks Shadowlogan.

your welcome. There might be others to, like effects of movement in altered gravity states (non-1G).

Psionic and Magic (in general) might also have some hidden bits in them to. I'm not sure, its been a while since I looked at them for something like this.