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In my Heroes Unlimited game I've allowed one of the players to play a Nightbane Sorceress. I'm happy to cross over the pre-darkday Nightlands stuff with Heroes Unlimited, but I hit a snag I didn't anticipate when this character mirror-walked for the first time. I had no idea what the Nightlands version of Century Station would be like!

I've been racking my head for a while on this and so far, this is what I've come up with. Nothing's official yet and I'm open to suggestions or feedback on this. The premise of the game is that superhumans started appearing about 10 years before the game began, and just a couple years before Dark Day would've happened. This caused Moloch to hold off on the invasion until he could account for this new factor. Thus, the Dark Day invasion has been put off temporarily and the Nightlands are all in their "pre-Dark Day" states. It's also worth noting that the version of Century Station I'm running the game in is set almost a year before Bloody Monday, so there has not yet been a nuclear detonation in Waingroh.

Grim Gulf
The Nightland's version of Century Station

Population: 2.2 million people; 70% Doppelgangers, 10% humans, 5% human mutants, 10% Nightlord minions, and 5% other creatures.

• Grim Gulf consists of all of Brisby, and the northern halves of Midtown and Society Hill. All of Diego Verde is wastelands.
  
• Ruled by the Nightlord "Lord Rotiel." His seat of power is in a high tower in the center of the labyrinth, which here in the Nightlands is literally a labyrinth (remember the movie Labyrinth? It's kind of like that, only darker and more twisted).
  
• Rattle Ridge is a massively high, sheer vertical rock wall with thin, jagged peaks. It marks the western border of Grim Gulf.
  
• Where Century Station's harbor would be is an inland sea larger than the city itself! This body of water borders Grim Gulf to the east. The Victoria islands and Gramercy island all rise above the water but remain seemingly unsettled and unclaimed due to the vicious predators living in the water.
  
• Bordering the inland sea on it's remaining shores is the Waste. No settlements before Grim Gulf have ever survived here due to the large number of waste creatures attracted to the abundance of water. Lord Rotiel waged a long war against these creatures to keep them out of his city, and the waste to the north and south of the city along the shore of the inland sea is littered with the corpses and remains of countless waste predators.
  
• The southern part of the city is bordered by the waste, and is the only main entrance point to the city from the rest of the Nightlands. Where Route 918 is in Earth, there is a dusty road that is seldom traveled which (one presumes) leads to other cities in the Nightlands.
  
• The city itself has the standard Gothic architecture one has come to expect in the Nightlands city, but with one notable difference. Interlaced throughout the streets and the architecture are a countless web of pipes of varying sizes. Some carry water from the inland sea throughout the city, others carry steam for crude power, and the rest can be filled with just about anything, or nothing at all. These pipe systems are overhead, underground, crawling up the buildings, and built into the buildings themselves. As sort of a dark mirror to Century Station's period of innovation, Lord Rotiel allowed the construction of this massive network but it's true purpose is known only to Rotiel and the Architect.
  
• Lord Rotiel does not wish to be a part in the eventual invasion of Earth - an invasion which has already been put off indefinitely while King Moloch re-structures his plans to account for the "superhumans" now populating the world. But Rotiel has seen how Moloch deals with Nightlords who openly defy him so for now, Rotiel supplies Moloch with the bare minimum he can get away with and does his best to subtly undermine the king's demands.
  
• Mirrors are not allowed in the city! For some reason Lord Rotiel has decreed that no mirrors shall be allowed to exist anywhere within his city. He dedicates scores of his minions to constantly scour the city, destroying any and all mirrors they find which have spontaneously appeared. A task with no end, as all permanent mirrors on Earth eventually spawn a counterpart in the Nightlands.

So cool.

This is a great idea. Cool stuff here. I've got a Nightbane in my game as well, and I've wondered about this issue.

The dark Hero's Unlimited book could be used and instead of demon catch it could be Nightlords.

That looks very cool. Do mutants have dopplegangers in your game or does the mutations make them inhuman enough?

asbjorn wrote:That looks very cool. Do mutants have dopplegangers in your game or does the mutations make them inhuman enough?

I was planning for humans born as mutants to not have dopplegangers, while those who mutate later in life have the same chance to have a doppleganger as any other human.

Some other additional thoughts I've been toying with for this:

• Slave Dome: Located where the Silver City Residential Arcology is on Earth, the Slave Dome is a combination slave pen, slave market, and breeding pit for Rotiel's slaves. This is where a large percentage of the Human and Mutant population are kept at any given time, except when they're being put to work.
  
• Sorrow Tree Where the Grand Lady and her Hand-Maidens stand on Earth (in the Ley Line Nexus) is a small, desolate open area with one sickly, singular tree. This tree is unlike any other tree on Earth (cannot be identified) and despite its sickly appearance regenerates damage done to it almost as fast as it can be dealt. Rumor has it that the tree bears a special fruit once every decade and it's for this fruit that Rotiel keeps it around.
  
• Eastern Graveyard: Earth's Victoria Beach is nothing more than a graveyard for countless waste creatures who have made the mistake of trying to get into Rotiel's city. The Nightlord's minions cut these creatures down without mercy, then leave the corpses where they lie to decompose on their own. There is a 20 foot stretch of land between the graveyard and the water which is clean of dead creatures, suggesting the reach of at least one water-dwelling monster.
  
• The Arena: Located where the Sentinel Park amusement park is located on Earth, the Arena is a large, Gothic coliseum and is used frequently.
  
• The Lab: This is a large building, towering over the other buildings around it. On Earth this location is (secretly) known as The Cyber Shop. In Grim Gulf it is a place where Rotiel's mad scientist, Dr. Makalai performs gruesome experiments on humans and mutants in an effort to understand this "superhuman" phenomenon. Makalai's experiments make Halcyon, Freak Maker and the Darkhold all look like saintly humanitarians.
  
• Torture Pits: The entire area of Earth's Willingham district is dedicated as a collection of torture-inducing institutions where dopplegangers, slaves, mutants, and other fodder are sent to either painfully die, or become twisted servants of Rotiel.
  
• Glass Hole: Before Bloody Monday there is nothing unremarkable about this location, either in the Nightlands or in Earth. When Iron Mike dies and detonates the nuclear bomb in Waingroh this corresponding area in Grim Gulf melts and forms a glassy crater which radiates deadly radiation. Sometimes waste creatures are tossed inside to see what the radiation will do to them - the smooth glass makes it tough for many of those creatures to escape. Those creatures that survive are pitted against other survivors, turning the entire area into a makeshift arena.
  
• die Werkstatt: This workshop is the steam-driven, clockwork home of the Archetect. It is here where the heart of his massive water/steam-system resides. On Earth this location corresponds to the Hannigan Junkyard. A ley line runs through here, though whether that's coincidence or by design is anyone's guess.
  
• Iron Beach: The Nightlands version of Napier Bay, it is entirely full of pipes and pumps of all sizes, all siphoning water from the inland sea and directing it throughout the city to become steam or do whatever else it must, all in accordance with the Architect's design.
  
• Rotiel's Labyrinth: The former site of the shut-down Daedalus project in Earth's Century Station is where Rotiel chose to create his citadel. The Labyrinth he created in this spot is larger than the Arcology on Earth that spawned it, and at its center is a massive black tower, the tallest building in Grim Gulf and Rotiel's seat of power. From there he can overlook the entire city and even see past the Ridge Wall which borders the city to the west.
  
• Northern Graveyard: Earth's White Ranch is nothing more than a graveyard for countless waste creatures who have made the mistake of trying to get into Rotiel's city. The Nightlord's minions cut these creatures down without mercy, then leave the corpses where they lie to decompose on their own. There is a 20 foot stretch of land between the graveyard and the water which is clean of dead creatures, suggesting the reach of at least one water-dwelling monster.

I feel like at least a few of the Centurions should have awakened dopplegangers under the command of Rotiel. So far all I've thought of is Nadir, the counterpart to Apex. By that token there are heroes and villains in this city - though few in number overall. Most are awakened dopplegangers, but a few are real Earth heroes or villains who managed to have some extraordinarily bad luck and end up in this nightmarish version of Century Station. Any Earth superhumans who are captured are usually turned over to Dr. Makalai for him to do with as he pleases, and if they survive they typically end up in the Torture Pits.

Zenvis wrote:The dark Hero's Unlimited book could be used and instead of demon catch it could be Nightlords.

Are you referring to Armageddon Unlimited? I can't figure out what "demon catch" refers to though...

Armageddon Unlimited was designed for the Minion War, but the basic idea behind the Deevil's plans (both Part One and Part Two) could just as easily fit as part of the Nightlord's plans. Part Two specifically could be an integral part of how they managed to trigger Dark Day via the mystical Chaos Generators.

That's a pretty intriguing thought.

I ran a couple players through here last night. It was a fun time. I'm not sure when we'll get to revisit it but knowing that this place is just sitting there on the other side of the mirror has changed at least one player's outlook. I'm pleased that the whole "breaking mirrors" thing I set up with Rotiel makes the decision to travel to and from this place even more dramatic - once you cross the mirror wall, there's no guarantee you're going to be able to cross back anytime soon. It added a neat dynamic to the game I thought.

I put together a rough map for Grim Gulf, it's available to view here: Grim Gulf.

When I put together the map for Grim Gulf I realized that the Century Station map I was modifying ended up having major roads going to what was now, in Grim Gulf, an enormous rock wall. While there wasn't really a need to make that make sense, I felt it should have some sort of purpose so I turned those intersections into mines. The history for Century Station notes that the city started due to a silver mine called "Diego Verde." With that bit of knowledge it seemed appropriate to me that there could be some ore of value here that Rotiel was mining.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a good ore to be here? Silver is the first obvious choice to me, since that would mirror what was originally mined (before it ran dry) in Earth. But would the Nightlords really care about Silver? True, it's caluable against Vampires, but so are their traditional darkblades.

The special ore used for Darkblades could also be appropriate, but I'm worried that might take away from one of the special features of Typhoon, since the Nightlands version of Chicago has its own lucrative mines and Darkblade forges (an entire section of the city dedicated to that!). Chicago also has so much that it supplies other Nightlords with Darkblades.

It could instead be some appropriately superheroic metal (does Palladium have an equivalent to Marvel's "Adamantium" or "Vibranium," or DC's "Nth Metal," or other such fictional metals?), or really any other kind of metal at all. Or it could be some kind of special gems. Or it could all be a ruse in order to construct and patrol secret tunnels that allow easy passage under the Ridge Wall. This is one of those situations where it seems like there's so many possibilities I don't know which one to settle on!

Glistam wrote:When I put together the map for Grim Gulf I realized that the Century Station map I was modifying ended up having major roads going to what was now, in Grim Gulf, an enormous rock wall. While there wasn't really a need to make that make sense, I felt it should have some sort of purpose so I turned those intersections into mines. The history for Century Station notes that the city started due to a silver mine called "Diego Verde." With that bit of knowledge it seemed appropriate to me that there could be some ore of value here that Rotiel was mining.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a good ore to be here? Silver is the first obvious choice to me, since that would mirror what was originally mined (before it ran dry) in Earth. But would the Nightlords really care about Silver? True, it's caluable against Vampires, but so are their traditional darkblades.

The special ore used for Darkblades could also be appropriate, but I'm worried that might take away from one of the special features of Typhoon, since the Nightlands version of Chicago has its own lucrative mines and Darkblade forges (an entire section of the city dedicated to that!). Chicago also has so much that it supplies other Nightlords with Darkblades.

It could instead be some appropriately superheroic metal (does Palladium have an equivalent to Marvel's "Adamantium" or "Vibranium," or DC's "Nth Metal," or other such fictional metals?), or really any other kind of metal at all. Or it could be some kind of special gems. Or it could all be a ruse in order to construct and patrol secret tunnels that allow easy passage under the Ridge Wall. This is one of those situations where it seems like there's so many possibilities I don't know which one to settle on!

Gantrium?

That would be too awesome.

Making what Rotiel has found and mines out of the base of the Ridge Wall be the ultra rare, magic-enhancing metal Gantrium seems like it might be too broken. I think definitely, these mines should have the un-named ore that is used to fabricate the infamous Darkblades, and the Darkmetal armor that the hounds are made out of. But interspersed throughout the ore deposits I think there will be something extra, too.

The idea of Gantrium got me looking in the Palladium Fantasy Northern Hinterlands book, and there I found Black Iron (also called Shadow Steel) and White Iron listed. Looking at their properties, I think they may be exactly what I was looking for.

Grim Gulf is a city for experimentation, and I can see Shadow Steel and White Iron Hounds as a secret reserve that Rotiel has experimented in creating and is building for himself. I'm envisioning Darkblades, Hounds and Hound Masters made from an alloy of this stuff, and it's freaky.

Here's some info on these two metals, taken from the Palladium Fantasy book Northern Hinterlands:

Black Iron is a super-hard variant of ordinary iron. Any item crafted from steel created with black iron will not only have double its usual S.D.C., but it will also take half damage from ordinary fire. Armor made from black iron will likewise have double the ordinary S.D.C., as well as an A.R. one point higher than usual. Any blade edge made with the stuff can be made incredibly sharp (+2 to damage) and it holds its edge ten times longer than ordinary steel. Black iron can be identified by its flat, non-reflective black surface. This look has led some to dub the metal shadow steel.

White Iron is the natural counterpart to Black Iron, and is found in similar locations and quantities. White Iron is super-flexible, able to take a great deal of punishment without permanently bending out of shape. When turned into steel and forged into a permanent shape, White Iron has a "shape memory" that enables it to shrug off a portion of whatever damage it receives. Objects made of White Iron negate the first 20 points of damage done to it in any given attack. White Iron has a lot of give, however, and anybody wearing White Iron armor will suffer full damage from a hit because the energy from the blow transmits right through the metal! White Iron does not conduct electricity at all, however, so a shirt made from it would provide its wearer with total resistance to ordinary electricity and half resistance to magical electricity. This metal's flexibility suits it well for weapons production, however, as items made from it are unusually well balanced (+1 to strike). White Iron and Black Iron can not be fused together.

Right now I envision Hounds made with an alloy of Darkmetal and Black Iron as being (unnoticeably) stronger and tougher, with double S.D.C., higher P.S., and increased A.R.. Hounds made with an alloy of Darkmetal and White Iron I envision as freakishly flexible, able to dismiss the first 20 S.D.C. of any attack that hits them, having an auto-dodge, and either healing in half the time (30 minutes instead of an hour) or having an actualy automatic regeneration rate. The Hunters with these alloys are similarly enhanced, but the White Iron Hunters use their flexibility to be amazingly acrobatic and nimble in flight, increasing their flying speed and bonuses as well as the usual bonuses.

Rotiel grows his force of these minions in secret, and thus-far their existence managed to stay a secret, even from King Moloch! They are not typically used but occasionally Rotiel will let them loose in the Labyrinth in order to "test" them against intruders. Black Iron Hunters typically encircle his Tower, while the White Iron Hunters stay back, out of sight, and await a reason to take flight.

Next up: What is that steam system for, anyway? Good question, and when I have an answer for that I will present it.

Diego Verde is Spanish for "Green Jake," so maybe the Nightlands version of the mine would be home to a subterranean, green-skinned monster?

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Diego Verde is Spanish for "Green Jake," so maybe the Nightlands version of the mine would be home to a subterranean, green-skinned monster?

An intriguing thought. The Century Station book never says where, exactly, the old mine was and so it could be anywhere in the outlying area. Since all of the Diego Verde district is Waste in the Nightlands, there's no reason there can't be some particularly vicious mutants or beings who live out of the Nightlands version of those mines - wherever they are. Could make a good staging ground too for anyone who opposes the Nightlords if they can strike up a relationship with these savages.

For some reason I'm envisioning a clan of the "Mountain Giants" R.C.C. from Rifts New West (book 14), page 136-138.

This is just getting better and better.

I seem to remember that such a campaign idea was explored where Superhumans more or less replace the role of the Nightbane and that the Nightlords went on an active campaign to discredit them, both before and after Dark Day.

If I remember correctly, it was explained that many heroes were killed during Dark Day, and those that survived were blamed for not preventing it (not that anyone could). So many people were looking for the Heroes to appear and save them that they lost faith in the Heroes when they didn't. They didn't care that the Heroes were fighting for their lives and likely saved a lot of people... the fact that so many people disappeared (and many Heroes too), seemed to prove that the Heroes couldn't protect the world like most people believed.

This lead to the governments (now puppets of the Nightlords) to try and round up any surviving superhumans... sometimes under the guise of "uniting" them into a more effective force, but most often as persecution... they failed humanity in its "hour" of need and thus can not be trusted with protecting the world. This forces many Heroes to go underground... to abandon their cloaks and cowls... but not necessarily their sense of responsibility. Even some villains have chosen to fight for humanity (in the hope they can carve out an empire from the ruins), but many also work for the Nightlords.

While it is presented as a Dark Hero game, there is also the possibility to include Nightbane (in smaller numbers than a Pure Nightbane game).

I just wish I could remember where I saw this.

Razorwing wrote:I seem to remember that such a campaign idea was explored where Superhumans more or less replace the role of the Nightbane and that the Nightlords went on an active campaign to discredit them, both before and after Dark Day.

If I remember correctly, it was explained that many heroes were killed during Dark Day, and those that survived were blamed for not preventing it (not that anyone could). So many people were looking for the Heroes to appear and save them that they lost faith in the Heroes when they didn't. They didn't care that the Heroes were fighting for their lives and likely saved a lot of people... the fact that so many people disappeared (and many Heroes too), seemed to prove that the Heroes couldn't protect the world like most people believed.

This lead to the governments (now puppets of the Nightlords) to try and round up any surviving superhumans... sometimes under the guise of "uniting" them into a more effective force, but most often as persecution... they failed humanity in its "hour" of need and thus can not be trusted with protecting the world. This forces many Heroes to go underground... to abandon their cloaks and cowls... but not necessarily their sense of responsibility. Even some villains have chosen to fight for humanity (in the hope they can carve out an empire from the ruins), but many also work for the Nightlords.

While it is presented as a Dark Hero game, there is also the possibility to include Nightbane (in smaller numbers than a Pure Nightbane game).

I just wish I could remember where I saw this.

Such a campaign idea has been explored here on the forums several times in the past, in various ways. Here's what my quick forum search, and memory dredged up:

• My ideas for a NB/HU cross over world
• Nightbane/HU
• A (not so) new idea!
• What if, The Nightlords invaded Heros Unlimited...
• Nightbane/HU2
• ~ DARK-SUPERS Unlimited ~
• Super Powers in Nightbane?

In the What if, The Nightlords invaded Heros Unlimited... topic I talked about some of my thoughts for the Nightlords invading a Heroes Unlimited world, and those posts seem similar to what you mentioned that you remembered seeing. The topic A (not so) new idea! also has some very cool ideas for mixing the two games in Century Station.

While I do see the similarities to what I remember, I was sure I saw it in one of the published books... maybe a Rifter or something... but I could definitely be wrong.

I agree with the scenario you presented in one of those threads (I think it was you)... where the Heroes would be so busy and confused that the populace would panic when their Heroes failed to appear.

Razorwing wrote:While I do see the similarities to what I remember, I was sure I saw it in one of the published books... maybe a Rifter or something... but I could definitely be wrong.

I agree with the scenario you presented in one of those threads (I think it was you)... where the Heroes would be so busy and confused that the populace would panic when their Heroes failed to appear.

Page 141 of Nightbane Book 1: Between the Shadows has what I believe you are remembering.

An excerpt from that page:

The Secret Invasion: Theirs was a world of heroes. Costumed crusaders had walked the Earth since World War II, and the sight of a caped hero flying over the" skyscrapers of a city was something most people were used to. Heroes and villains slugged it out in heroic battles, and evil seemed easy to recognize. Then Dark Day came.

The Nightlords planned their strike with great care. During the twenty-four hours of darkness, many heroes (and villains) were taken by surprise and overwhelmed by Hounds, Hunters and other horrors. Most survivors were forced into hiding, and the fearful peoples of the Earth looked towards the darkening skies for help - and saw nothing. Feeling betrayed, many common people turned against their former idols. Reports of monstrous "mutants" (the Nightbanes) further fueled the hysteria against ultra-humans. The Preserver Party ran on a platform of "preserving Earth for Humankind," targeting mutants, so-called superhumans, and ultra-humans as the cause of Dark Day and the ensuing chaos. Super-abilities are now considered to be inherently dangerous or evil, and those who exhibit them are marked for persecution or worse.

Most heroes have abandoned their costumes and now live in hiding. Some blame the Nightbanes for their downfall, and attack them on sight, unwittingly doing the Nightlords' work for them. Many others have discovered the terrible secret of the invasion, and now fight side by side with Nightbanes, Guardians and Wampyrs. A few daring heroes still retain their costumes and try to act as living symbols of freedom, but they are often the first to fall, hunted by supernatural minions, super-villains (many of whom now serve the Nightlords), and rejected by most common people. Ironically, some villains and self-serving masterminds are now fighting side by side with heroes, because they understand that the Nightlords are a common threat that must be dealt with. Some of these criminals, however, are still looking out for number one, and will try to take advantage of their new "allies" at the earliest opportunity. Other villains take advantage of the chaos and strike at heroes, freedom fighters and the Nightlords alike.

Yep, that's where I saw the idea first.

I love that setting. Could you imagine having a mixed group of evil and good. It's dealing Sinestro and Hal having to work together to get some restoration.

I don't have Century Station , so I can't help with the actual make up of the city, but here are some thoughts. . .

In the book Nightlands, page 13, it states that the oceans of the Nightlands aren't water, but sand and gravel, pitted with blowing dust, sulphur, coal, and sinkholes. Perhaps the pipes, instead of water, is vainly trying to siphon away the worst of the sand in an effort to reach the bottom of the numerous sinkholes?

I say "vainly siphoning" because, with the fun, unnatural landscape of the Nightlands, there might be an infinite amount of sand. Or, if there's going to be a tense race against time, the siphoning has almost been completed, triggering the uneasy alliance between good and evil.

The reason behind the siphoning can be an unconfirmed rumor has it that the Nightlord in charge of the city lost a powerful treasure within its swirling depths millennia ago . . . Could be true or a ruse for some other, far more sinister purpose.

As for the mines, what about the ever popular, ever needed, atmospheric, coal? (Coal is needed to fuel the furnaces making the dark blades, you know.) Of course, the coal might have special properties . . . or not. But being covered in dark, filthy soot, with the legion of lurid smoke staining the dark air even futher and crippling the ability to breathe easily, could certainly remind our heroes of the loss of that beloved era when heroes were lauded and praised instead of blamed and spat upon . . .

Just rambling, now.

Ramble away, please! As much as I love the positive feedback I've gotten I'm also looking to help collect ideas as well.

Here's some "rumors" (read: possible ideas) for the Steam System running throughout Grim Gulf:

• The entire city can merge and "transform" into a giant mechanical robot, or possibly several smaller ones. The transformation and operation of this behemoth would be powered by the steam system and local steam engines.
• The steam pipes throughout the city are designed with vents that will open and flood the city with scalding steam on command, killing all the city's mortal inhabitants at once. Such a mass death would serve to fuel some sort of super ritual.
• The steam system powers machinery deep underground, accessible only through the mines and a couple buildings. This machinery cranks out Hounds and Hunters like clockwork.
• Steam-driven turbines generate electricity on a massive scale. This power is used instead of fuel to heat the darkblade forges.
• The seeming randomness of the steam system is exactly that. It's designed solely to keep the inhabitants of the city uncomfortable, for Rotiel's amusement.
• Instead of mystic forges, Rotiel makes his army's weapons through a steam powered mechanized process, providing him with darkblades and other unusual weapons in secret abundance.
• Rotiel hates the unnaturalness of the Inland Sea in the Nightlands and authorized the steam system as a means to syphon and drain it.

Some additional thoughts and notes on this subject as I've been developing it...

Pre-Dark Day
While this is touched on briefly in the main Nightbane book, there are no specific rules laid out to govern the differences. So, here's some of the changes I've implemented:

• Each Nightlord city has many, many more minions than listed in the books! Recall that many minions were sent to Earth during and following Dark Day - that means that the Nightlord forces were amassed in their cities and/or surrounding areas prior to that. While they would march on each other's cities and make war constantly in order to alleviate boredom, the closer to Dark Day the timeline gets the less tolerated these petty wars become to Moloch. As they are forced to slow and stop the wars, their troops are naturally built up into an invasion force.
• Magical energy is much lower than what's listed in the books. As I'm combining this with Heroes Unlimited, it was a simple matter to just use that book's info for ley line and nexus energy rather than the Nightbane one.
• The Nightlands and Earth dimensions were further separated, making travel between the two more difficult. I arbitrarily increased the natural cost of traveling across the Mirror Wall by ×5, meaning that the Mirrorwalk and Doorway abilities cost 5 times as much to use in those regards. As my spell caster hasn't learned the spells that breach the Mirror Wall yet, I haven't decided if those spells will also increase ×5 in P.P.E. cost or will only be ×2. I also have yet to consider the effect on Mirror Mages, though as a fun twist I might increase their abilities since the mirrorwall is stronger, and it's by the mirrorwall they fuel their magic.

Shadow Hounds
Here's my current working write-up on these experimental black iron Hounds:

Pale Hunters
Here's my current working write-up on these experimental white iron Hunters:

More to follow as I develop it. Feedback and suggestions are appreciated.

Glistam: IIRC The reason NB earth was invaded wasn't JUST because of Moloch wanted to but because it coincided with a rare alignment between the nightlands and earth. Darkday wasn't an act of someone's will but a natural event. Dark day allowed Moloch to send his troops over en force and an got the two dimensions together. For Moloch to not use darkday puts him in the same state he was in before it, stuck in the nightlands.

All Nightspawn did have their first becoming on darkday. If that were so, according to text we wouldn't have most of the legends in NSE/NBE.

Well the Advent of the Superhuman is a recent development in the game I'm running, so this background has worked for me. For the more generic Heroes Unlimited setting, which has had superhumans for the last 80+ years, the Nightlords would've had ample time to study and factor them into their plans. So for that sort of world there's no reason for Moloch to postpone the Darkday invasion.

However Nightbane/Nightspawn existed and would have their becoming even before Darkday, just in smaller numbers. Darkday caused an unprecedented number of 'Bane to undergo their first becoming and there weren't enough surviving existing 'Bane to reach and teach them all in time. That's why things like the Wanderer's Diary's and the Nightbane Survival Guide made their way to the internet.

Glistam wrote:Well the Advent of the Superhuman is a recent development in the game I'm running, so this background has worked for me. For the more generic Heroes Unlimited setting, which has had superhumans for the last 80+ years, the Nightlords would've had ample time to study and factor them into their plans. So for that sort of world there's no reason for Moloch to postpone the Darkday invasion.

However Nightbane/Nightspawn existed and would have their becoming even before Darkday, just in smaller numbers. Darkday caused an unprecedented number of 'Bane to undergo their first becoming and there weren't enough surviving existing 'Bane to reach and teach them all in time. That's why things like the Wanderer's Diary's and the Nightbane Survival Guide made their way to the internet.

So in your HU did Dark say still happen and Moloch just not use it? Are the nightlands as closely linked to earth since the invasion didn't happen? Just curious how your doing it, since as GM your world can't be "wrong", so no judgment just wonder.

Edit: nevermind, just reread posts. Thanks.

Hey, what all has reflective counterparts? Just mirrors? Stationary only?

My idea was that stationary mirrors on Earth eventually spawn a corresponding mirror on the other side of the mirror wall. Mobile mirrors might eventually spawn a counterpart as well, but that's a much rarer occurrence. Other highly reflective surfaces might spawn an equivalent link as well, but I'd say they need to be mirror quality or the chance dramatically falls.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Glistam: IIRC The reason NB earth was invaded wasn't JUST because of Moloch wanted to but because it coincided with a rare alignment between the nightlands and earth. Darkday wasn't an act of someone's will but a natural event. Dark day allowed Moloch to send his troops over en force and an got the two dimensions together. For Moloch to not use darkday puts him in the same state he was in before it, stuck in the nightlands.

I can't find where in the books it's mentioned that Darkday was the result of a naturally occurring alignment between the Nightlands and Earth. Can you point me to that? I'd like to make sure I account for it in my game and lay the clues properly for my players who can sense such things.

Glistam wrote:My idea was that stationary mirrors on Earth eventually spawn a corresponding mirror on the other side of the mirror wall. Mobile mirrors might eventually spawn a counterpart as well, but that's a much rarer occurrence. Other highly reflective surfaces might spawn an equivalent link as well, but I'd say they need to be mirror quality or the chance dramatically falls.

Hmm, so what about a lake on a still day? Maybe in the darklands there's a lake of blood and the still moments just happen to coincide.

I wouldn't think a lake stays still enough, long enough, to work that way. But perhaps an underground lake could have some sort of Nightlands counterpart.

Actually, that's not needed, since bodies of water in the Nightlands come from some sort of dimensional rift which connects them to the Earth body of water feeding it.

Glistam wrote:I wouldn't think a lake stays still enough, long enough, to work that way. But perhaps an underground lake could have some sort of Nightlands counterpart.

Actually, that's not needed, since bodies of water in the Nightlands come from some sort of dimensional rift which connects them to the Earth body of water feeding it.

wonder if it is a specific spot just floating in the water or if a tunnel to an Aquifer has to be swum through or a particularly dark part of the water is that way because of the link, not because of a drop off? Hmm.

Glistam wrote:I wouldn't think a lake stays still enough, long enough, to work that way. But perhaps an underground lake could have some sort of Nightlands counterpart.

Actually, that's not needed, since bodies of water in the Nightlands come from some sort of dimensional rift which connects them to the Earth body of water feeding it.

Some stay still long enough for a photo and that is usually linger than any mobile mirror that isn't lost.

It would be weird if the night lands spawned something for every reflective body and most weren't nice. Every car a manufacturer makes produces a beast with shiny teeth and markings where ever the car has chrome or mirror.

Because of Glitter Boys in Rifts and CE THERE ARE thousands of mirror trolls.

Lakes

Silverware spawns mirror worms

There would be an abundance of nasties

Regrettably, you've discovered and illustrated the flaw in a statement I made in my first post: "all permanent mirrors on Earth eventually spawn a counterpart in the Nightlands." I would revise it now to say that many, not all, permanent mirrors eventually spawn a counterpart in the Nightlands. It still does not address the problem of other types of reflective surfaces, but since the Nightbane books don't address it either I am comfortable with this change.

This whole tangent has also got me thinking about mirrors in the context of the ancient world. If the Nightbane history is to be believed, the Nightlords were banished sometime around 12,000 and 10,000 B.C.. Mirrors were primitive and dull things then compared to what they've become in the last few centuries. So do these imperfect mirrors create a link to a corresponding mirror in the Nightlands and breach the mirrorwall? This leads down a similar path regarding whether any reflective surface could be a portal through the mirrorwall, and to be honest the books may address this but I haven't reviewed them in detail recently in order to determine if they answer this.

It did however lead me down this line of speculation:
Ultimately, I'd rather continue discussing that in its own thread and go back to discussing the ideas I've presented regarding the Nightlands version of Century Station. The simple fact here regarding mirrors is that I wanted to introduce some sort of mechanism that made travel between the two dimensions difficult and/or rare. This was the way I came up with. I didn't want to let let nearly every mirror my players encounter in my Heroes Unlimited game be a portal into the Nightlands, so it served my purposes to have the Nightlord in Grim Gulf, Rotiel, constantly working to destroy all mirrors within his city. This prevents casual travel from Century Station to Grim Gulf, or vice versa. But then I liked the idea that it could be an activity without end if the nature of the Nightlands and/or the Mirrorwall spawned these cooresponding mirror portals in the Nightlands despite their constant destruction.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I ran an adventure in Grim Gulf with two other people and I was pleased in how this contrivance worked to make things more dramatic. My main Nightbane player mirror walked for the first time, luckily doing it in a mirror with a counterpart. Actions taken shortly thereafter resulted in the mirror being broken, and this had the consequence of trapping the character in the Nightlands until another mirror could be found. Two days late, when another mirror was stumbled upon, the character had to decide: Did she leave her new friends and their mission behind and travel back to Earth, to her friends and family there? Or did she stay and continue to learn more about the Nightlands and Grim Gulf?

Back to the matter at hand... Why is Rotiel working his minions so hard to destroy all these mirrors? Here's some more rumors about that:

• There are secrets Rotiel wishes to keep, and he fears that spies may use mirrors in his city to uncover them.
• One or more Mirror Mages once stole something from him, and in retribution he became determined to ensure that no Mirror Mage would ever find sanctuary within his city again.
• Particularly incensed over being trapped in the Nightlands, Rotiel destroys these potential portals back to Earth out of spite because he cannot use them himself.
• Rotiel once was a handsome man, but over the years has changed his appearance so much he's forgotten his original face. Seeing his reflection reminds him of this so in his vanity and anger he ensures there are no mirrors anywhere in his city.
• Rotiel has his own ritual he plans to use to escape from the Nightlands, but for it to be successful there can't be any mirrors (links to the mirrorwall which traps them) within 10 miles.
• Nightlords just be crazy. Who knows why they do what they do?

Some wiggle-room might be allowed regarding what qualifies as a 'permanent' mirror. Something fluid like water probably wouldn't...

In the sense of standard glass-on-polished-metal I can't think of a way to exclude other things without excluding this, including GBs.

Maybe GBs don't reflect a clear enough image? Only a fuzzy non-mirror thing to lessen laser

Tor wrote:Some wiggle-room might be allowed regarding what qualifies as a 'permanent' mirror. Something fluid like water probably wouldn't...

In the sense of standard glass-on-polished-metal I can't think of a way to exclude other things without excluding this, including GBs.

Maybe GBs don't reflect a clear enough image? Only a fuzzy non-mirror thing to lessen laser

Please take the mirror theory discussion and speculation to this topic.

I'm torn regarding the radioactive crater in Winslow which I've named the Glass Hole:

• Glass Hole: Before Bloody Monday there is nothing unremarkable about this location, either in the Nightlands or in Earth. When Iron Mike dies and detonates the nuclear bomb in Waingroh this corresponding area in Grim Gulf melts and forms a glassy crater which radiates deadly radiation. Sometimes waste creatures are tossed inside to see what the radiation will do to them - the smooth glass makes it tough for many of those creatures to escape. Those creatures that survive are pitted against other survivors, turning the entire area into a makeshift arena.

I've already set it up in our game, which takes place before Bloody Monday, to be the home base/site of a resistance group in Grim Gulf. My next game will feature the possibility of the nuclear explosion which is supposed to take out Iron Mike happening.

Where I'm torn is I don't know if I want the devistation that carries over into the Nightlands to just be a side effect, or if I want that weird mirror-effect for events. With it being a side-effect, I envision that the moment the bomb goes off the whole area in the Nightlands would just kind of glow, then melt away, forming the smooth glass radioactive crater. But if it's that weird mirror-event effect, then the attack on Iron Mike would coincide with a contingent of Rotiel's minions swarming the Resistance members, culminating in one of the sides using a weapon of destruction similar to the prototype nuclear weapon Iron Mike slaves his vitals to.

While the end result will be the same, I'm unsure which of the two should be how it happens in Grim Gulf. Ultimately I never liked the idea that major events play in both worlds coincidentally, but in this case it has a certain symmetry that I can get behind, and makes those N.P.C.'s in the resistance have a more heroic end than just having been in the wrong place at the wrong time when Iron Mike's bomb goes off.

Any thoughts anyone has on the matter would be appreciated.

Our hero game went on hiatus after the Bloody Monday finale/showdown, so the characters haven't been able to revisit the Nightlands yet. The Dark Day plot has been set up as the season 2 storyarc if we pick it up again.

In the interrim, I ran a one-shot that tied this Heroes Unlimited/Nightbane world to an ongoing Palladium Fantasy game. I wrote it up a summary/recap of that game here: Crime of the Century (Station).

can you imagine the nighlands version of gramercy island? damn

I'm not sure what I'd do for a Nightlands version of Gramercy Island. I noted previously that it was seemingly unsettled, but as I think on it more I think it'd be a great secret spot for a resistance group.

Glistam wrote:Ramble away, please! As much as I love the positive feedback I've gotten I'm also looking to help collect ideas as well.

Here's some "rumors" (read: possible ideas) for the Steam System running throughout Grim Gulf:

• The entire city can merge and "transform" into a giant mechanical robot, or possibly several smaller ones. The transformation and operation of this behemoth would be powered by the steam system and local steam engines.

This must be true, as mecha-city combat is the traditional method of revolving combat between two nightlords.