Rules questions: hth engaments and hth attacks

[Maximilian Jenius]

This is the first of what will be many rules questions that I have.

Question 1.

Does a mecha need to be considered engaged in hand to hand combat in order to make a hand to hand attack against an enemy mecha?

For clarity I will be leaving out bits of rules that do not apply to the question but will try to keep them mostly complete.

Page 19 of the rulebook states:

Hand to Hand Combat:
To make a hand to hand attack, an attacking mecha only needs to move into base to base contact with the enemy mecha that it wishes to attack (during the movement step, PG 15), then roll to strike as normal.

It then goes on to this subclause:

Engaged in hand to hand combat 》Once a mecha is in base to base contact with an enemy mecha, the two are considered to be engaged in hand to hand combat and cannot attack with weapon systems at all. Additionally, an engaged mecha can't be attacked by other mecha with weapon systems. If either mecha wishes to move out of base to base contact with the other mecha, then its player must pay one command point to do so. Note: A mecha may move, or change facing, as long as it doesn't move out of base to base contact with multiple.


Question 2.

If a mecha is in base to base contact with an enemy mecha with the aircraft special ability is that mecha considered engaged in hand to hand combat even though the mecha with the aircraft special ability is not?

The aircraft special ability on PG 24 has this to say:

An aircraft is never engaged in hand to hand combat. A mecha with the aircraft ability can move out of base to base contact with enemy mecha without having to pay command points to do so.

Please note that I am looking for official answers.

[WilhelmRochRedDuke]

Question 1.
Does a mecha need to be considered engaged in hand to hand combat in order to make a hand to hand attack against an enemy mecha?

YES Once a mecha is in base to base contact with an enemy mecha, the two are considered to be engaged in hand to hand combat. Also reference the subsection 2 in HtH under the Choose a target section - you can only hit a target that is in base to base. you cannot target another model unless your in base to base.

Question 2.

If a mecha is in base to base contact with an enemy mecha with the aircraft special ability is that mecha considered engaged in hand to hand combat even though the mecha with the aircraft special ability is not?

No, the aircraft isn't a viable target because it is not even in the combat to begin with. You are only touching bases but not in Hand to hand so you cannot even target them with Hand to Hand attacks. For veritechs: if you are in the fighter mode: this rule applies. Guardian mode can be engaged in Hand to Hand. You can use weapon systems against the aircraft though.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Is this an official answer?

Also Base to Base and engaged are not the same thing, as you can be base to base and not be engaged in multiple situations.

[WilhelmRochRedDuke]

Official - yes until an official rules FAQ or forum is set up. I'm sure anyone else who worked on the rules would agree that there are only two current situations. You are touching the base of the enemy model or you are not. If your base is touching the enemy's base then you are both engaged. Period. Should one or both models have the aircraft special rule in effect at the time when you touch, then you are not engaged in HtH. Done. There are no other situations, because you cannot attack a friendly model in Hth combat.

[Battle Damage]

Question 1.
...you cannot even target them with Hand to Hand attacks.

Unless I'm missing something, the rules don't actually state that. The section on 'choosing a target' on p.20 gives no restriction on what type of mecha can be targetted, and none of the special abilities for aircraft (afterburner, aircraft, fast mover, flight) on p.24 say that.

I get that the 'aircraft' rule stops them from being engaged, but that term has a specific meaning defined on p.19. I note that the rule on 'choose a target' on p.20 says 'the enemy mecha must be in base to base contact with the attacking mecha in order to attack it'. It does not specify that the enemy mecha must be engaged with the attacking mecha in order to attack it. I guess this is why MJ asked his first question.

I guess this means we have our first piece of errata.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Yes. That is precisely why I asked. The rules speak of engagement as an effect of being base to base but not as a requirement to make an attack. To further point to the issue, targeting an inanimate object (such as a building) requires no special considered state (such as engagement). If you do need to be engaged to make a hand to hand attack against an enemy mecha the rules should state as much.

I would also request that a section on rules timing be added. If roll to strike happens after engagement occurs it would be nice to have something official to squash any arguments that may pop up.

[Phaze]

Timing? Engagement is during movement phase...rolling to strike is during combat phase. They are on different phases. No timing required. Targeting a building is the same as targeting a mecha... values are different per type (civilian and military) and the building can't dodge or 'roll with it'. You can HTH if you are base to building contact, or range fire if you are not.

More to your point however, could you fire weapons if you are in base to base with a building, or are you engaged with the building? ummm... must think about that one.

Correction....Value for hitting inanimate object with HTH attack is 2...1 always fails.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Actually the rules do not address where you have to be to attack a building in hand to hand explicitly.

[Battle Damage]

Here's another wrinkle to this point:

If aircraft cannot be targeted by hand-to-hand attacks, then Glaug-Eldares can make h-t-h attacks but not be attacked in return... even by another Glaug-Eldare. Interesting.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Also the Glaug-Eldare has HTH attacks and the aircraft special rule. So can it not use those hth attacks legally as it is never engaged?

[Malcontent-Khyron]

"Engaged" is only important to the mechanics for the puposes of being able to move away from your attacker the rules neither list it as a requirement for making HTH attacks or a requirement for being attacked in HTH.

Seems clear to me ( in my opinon of coarse) that aircraft both can attack in HTH and can be attacked in HTH but they cannot be trapped or prevented from moving awayper engagement.